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Option to play battles with no artillery


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ruar #21 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 03:12

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View PostVooDooKobra, on Oct 01 2018 - 03:07, said:

 

yet there has been a lot of controversy about seperating skill levels and mods.  so my question stands why shouldnt they get the fair play they want in a game like those who dont want to play with arty?  games do not in general put limiters in their code unless the player can create their own server.  since that is not the case i dont see them working here. 

 

after all it is win win with limiters right?

 

I actually agree that having limiters is a win/win.  I'm just not sure most people are willing to put up with the longer wait times for a match.  While I don't think we need a lot of limiters the fact remains that people should be able to have fun.  I know I use limiters in BF4 to make it playable and enjoyable.  

 

So sure, add a bunch of different options and see what happens.  Worse case is people don't turn a bunch of them on because the wait times are too long.



xrays_ #22 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 03:20

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View Postruar, on Sep 30 2018 - 21:03, said:

And honestly, what do you lose out if I choose matches that don't have artillery.  Can you at least answer how it effects your game play.

 

I miss out on the opportunity to boop you with my artillery. How do you not get that?

 

x.



ArmorStorm #23 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 03:27

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Didn’t you say you were leaving again yesterday or the day before?

 

The horse is nothing but paste now, stop beating it. 



Christojojo #24 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 03:40

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I thought you quit (http://forum.worldof...6#entry11821926)

heavymetal1967 #25 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 03:41

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Time to bring out another nag to counter bludgeon.

 

From September 3, 2014. 

 

http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/09/03/insider-wargaming-thoughts-on-arty/

 

WoT dev...

 >Remember this is a business Model, not a democracy, despite what players whine about over 90% of the database owns artillery at low to mid tiers and 83% owns an end-tier piece, this is contrary to the actual statistics of “arty sucks” and hear, these little krayfish dont even know what they want, all they want is win, win, win, and when they dont win they blame anything that can be accounted for, once we Nerf artillery, Tank Destroyers will come, they are blind and only see what they have the most immediate benefit of their wins, and then we will have a Tank Destroyer problem – too strong to be maintained in check! and the cycle will repeat, the new statistics are meant to define less damage per game as solution and it seems to be working. and noting else will be ever moved from now on unless a new model is approached. we must focus on what statistics form server tells not some Arty vocals, artillery is a piece of the game that is instrumental to our models, it will NEVER be removed and even if kraulf was to bring a second homecoming id rather make him drink --redacted--.

 

From October 11, 2017. 

 

https://ritastatusreport.live/2017/10/11/48847/

 

WoT dev meeting...

 

Q: Artillery is annoying will they be remove or change further?

 

A: Artillery will not be removed. The class is for people for like to predict another players behaviour. There is a proportion of the players that really like this class and some players only plays artillery. Now players can survive longer rather than being one shot by artillery.

 

From dev Q&A and posted on The Daily Bounce on 12-12-17.

 

https://thedailybounce.net/2017/12/12/world-of-tanks-czech-community-qa/

Will there be further rebalances to SPGs? I suggest, limiting them to only 1 per battle, or deleting the game breaking and stupid stun mechanic.

 

Currently there are fewer people whining about arty than before. There are always some who will hate arty to death, no matter what we do, and they will want them to be deleted, but there is also a similar number of those who play SPG and enjoy them. Most of the player base just enjoys playing the game and doesn’t care too much about SPG. I would call that a problem without a solution, we are constantly looking into new possibilities and will continue doing that. The biggest issue with limiting their number to 1 per battle is that there would be no more battles without arty, and that is something we don’t want. We don’t think that currently arty is a big issue, but we will keep monitoring the situation and doing tests on our side.

 

 

Tanker's Day Q&A from Rita's. Posted on her site 9-10-18.

 

https://ritastatusreport.live/2018/09/10/wg-minsk-tankers-day-qa/

 

– Crew perks against stunning: There are a few things being looked to in the crew skill rework along these lines.

 

– The crew skill rework is continuing to be worked on, though it isn’t an easy process. There are people who have a huge amount of time invested in perks. We’ll announce something in the near future.

 

Urgent action on the arty is not expected. No real concrete plans in the future.

 

– Artillery: We believe that the current mechanic is quite enough to satisfy all the fans of the SPGs. No plans for adding new branches, though there is plenty of material.

 

 



stalkervision #26 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 04:00

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View PostIron_Soul_Stealer, on Sep 30 2018 - 20:26, said:

Can I have an option to play with no tank destroyers..?

 

 

Me too!

stalkervision #27 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 04:02

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Also no autoloaders!

Isola_di_Fano #28 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 04:31

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Removing arta means re-equilibrating every other class for the non-arta thingie ... good luck with that !

 

And I also want no TD in that new mode and .... let's all play with Karls ...


Edited by Isola_di_Fano, Oct 01 2018 - 04:31.


An_old_slow_guy #29 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 04:42

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I'd like an option to not play with players who are so afraid of arty they do nothing but hide behind a rock or a building. 

dunniteowl #30 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 04:44

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View Postruar, on Sep 30 2018 - 20:03, said:

 

I really don't understand why you are so upset.  The knight is balanced in a way artillery never is, but you seem to ignore that fact.

 

And honestly, what do you lose out if I choose matches that don't have artillery.  Can you at least answer how it effects your game play.

 

I am NOT upset.  I am TIRED of dealing with folks that don't understand GAME DESIGN PRINCIPLES.  Tired of repeating myself to folks, who otherwise appear sane and healthy, who have NO IDEA what they're talking about.  I design games.  I have been doing so for nearly 40 years.  Game Design is applicable here whether or not it's computer based.

 

I have studied GAME THEORY as applied to military training.  I have studied Situational Awareness from the author of the words, Situational Awareness (hint, it's a woman from the USAF).  I have studied Game Design for:

Board Games

Board War Games

Simulation War Games

Card Games

     and

Role Playing Games

 

Just because a unit, piece of part of a rule does not fit with your conception of how a game should play -- YOU DIDN'T DESIGN IT!!  Savvy?

 

I cannot believe you actually think I am upset.  I am just thorough in my responses.  I am thorough, because I VALUE information and it's proper application.  I do this out of Respect for my Fellow Gamers and Forumites -- as I inherently believe you should all be intelligent enough to understand what you don't know, especially when you're talking out your butt about things you have no comprehension of when it comes to design.  You just go on your FEELS and it's piss poor arguing when you do that.  In fact, that's all it is, Arguing.  There's no constructive way to make anti-arty arguments based on, so far, EVERY argument against it I've seen.

 

It plays differently.  That's the only reason you hate it so?  No.

 

I'll tell you WHY you and all the other Anti-Arty Players hate arty:

 

It takes away your sense of control over what happens in the match.

 

 

You hate it, because it makes you feel powerless and no-one likes that feeling.  I don't like it, either.

 

 

What's the difference then?

 

 

It is that I understand why I feel that way and I resolve to not let it worry me that much.  It's a game.  Crap happens and when you know the rules, the design intent and other things, maybe you can come to appreciate the concept of having arty in a game that is primarily 2D fighting (Bishops, Pawns, King/Queen, Rook) and there is this one unit that doesn't play the same (Knight) and folks hate that the Knight can take their King with that safe move that prevents them from being in danger until after they check the King.  Boo Hoo, you got arty on your side, too, right?

 

Maybe learn to utilize the arty on your team as a form of softening up your target before you start face hugging someone with three other tanks on their team ripping you to pieces.  Just a thought.

 

I am NOT upset.  I am doing my best to remonstrate with folks who cannot seem to get past the idea that the devs probably know better than you do what they are intending.  And WHY.

 

Good Luck to You in that regard -- all of you who hate arty, it's because you don't like feeling out of control.  Deal with it.

 

 

OvO


Edited by dunniteowl, Oct 01 2018 - 04:45.


WhineMaker #31 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 04:52

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View Postruar, on Sep 30 2018 - 17:23, said:

We all know artillery is a hotly debated issue.  People love it, people hate it, and the class as a whole has been changed and redesigned more than any other class in the game.  Ultimately there will never be a happy medium simply because artillery works so much differently than every other class.

 

I think in the end the only way to keep both pro-arty and anti-arty players happy is to have the option to play matches with no artillery allowed in the que.  People who dislike artillery will be able to play against tanks without all of the animosity and frustration that artillery brings to a match.

 

People who like artillery will be able to play matches with artillery and this would even allow artillery to be made more fun since the people in those matches are the ones who have no problems adapting and adjusting to the artillery mechanic.  More than likely the cap will have to be removed which will allow even more artillery into the match which will cut down on the wait times for people who do enjoy artillery.

 

I haven't been able to find any downside to having a toggle option.  After all, the pro-arty people have assured us that the anti-arty are a minority of the players so there won't be that many people in the no-arty que.  In fact, the wait times will probably be longer since so few people actually dislike artillery.

 

So having a toggle is win/win for everyone involved.  

 

Your arty free games already exist... :ohmy:

 

Go play WoT Blitz...

 

Simple, easy and viable workaround for your arty free game requirement... :child:

 

View PostClydeCooper421, on Sep 30 2018 - 17:41, said:

TDs still require direct line of sight. arty does not. 

 

 

l'd actually like to see how long the queue times would actually be if there was a no arty option. 

 

It more than likely wouldn't work but i'm still curious as to how long exactly it would take

 

Then create, develop and produce your game with the mechanics you require and do your queue time experiments... 

 

View PostClydeCooper421, on Sep 30 2018 - 17:43, said:

 

There are a lot of issues with this post.  

 

 

If you're favorite game has some issues, why in the heck wouldn't you try to get it fixed? 

 

 

l point back to the submachine gun meta in fortnite. They weren't necessarily broken, they were just bleh and Epic games listened to their community, nerfed them a bit, and fortnite is as successful as ever. 

 

moral of the story, when you listen to your playerbase, you create a successful, popular game that makes people want to come back. 

 

So you are the expert on game mechanics?

 

I see no issues with WoT in its current iteration...

 

If I don't like or disagree with a game's mechanics, I move on... :facepalm:

 

View Postruar, on Sep 30 2018 - 17:56, said:

 

Well, mainly because no other class of tanks has had so much controversy over the years.  Check any forum where they talk about WoT and you'll find thread after thread about how much people dislike artillery.

 

Then there's the fact artillery acts like no other class in the game.  Which creates a lot of animosity since it can shoot from behind cover which is something no other class can do.

 

I mean, I understand you think that by trying to dilute the player pool more you are making some kind of counter point to why artillery shouldn't be excluded, but your argument requires ignoring the fact artillery has created so much controversy.  Literally years worth of threads describing how much artillery is hated by thousands of players.

 

So yeah, nice try but the point still stands that because artillery is such a unique class and has created so much controversy it only makes sense to allow players the option to not play against a thing often described as "cancer".  Perhaps in a few years when there are tens of thousands of threads talking about how much TDs are different from other classes and how they are cancer then we could consider adding them to the opt out list.

 

Do you count all the duplicate threads, by the same players and their alts, as different threads?

 

As I mentioned above, you have multiple options:

 

1) Deal with the game as is

 

2) Go play WoT Blitz

 

3) Find another game



LeaveIT2Beaver #32 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 05:05

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Remove all the tanks, TDs, SPGs and keep just the forum

Altwar #33 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 05:09

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View PostClydeCooper421, on Sep 30 2018 - 17:43, said:

 

There are a lot of issues with this post.  

 

If you're favorite game has some issues, why in the heck wouldn't you try to get it fixed? 

 

l point back to the submachine gun meta in fortnite. They weren't necessarily broken, they were just bleh and Epic games listened to their community, nerfed them a bit, and fortnite is as successful as ever. 

 

moral of the story, when you listen to your playerbase, you create a successful, popular game that makes people want to come back. 

 

See, here's the thing.  You are saying this game has issues.   Name the issues and quite likely, the player base will not agree that those are issues or at least in the light you'd shine on them.  Even more likely, most of the player base probably doesn't even care, as many more don't visit and post on the forums, then those who do.

 

I for one think the game is just fine.   I'm one of those players who doesn't come to the forums on a daily basis to complain about mechanics of the game I disagree with or have a problem with because they interfere with my stats.  These are not issues to me.   I enjoy the game as is. 



Omega_Weapon #34 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 05:28

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View Postruar, on Sep 30 2018 - 20:56, said:

Well, mainly because no other class of tanks has had so much controversy over the years.  Check any forum where they talk about WoT and you'll find thread after thread about how much people dislike artillery.

 

Artillery creates no controversy here. When was the last time a piece of artillery came on the forums to stir crap? Its the arty whiners who create all the drama and all the controversy. This thread is a case in point.

Omega_Weapon #35 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 05:33

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View Postruar, on Sep 30 2018 - 21:03, said:

I really don't understand why you are so upset.  The knight is balanced in a way artillery never is, but you seem to ignore that fact.

 

How is arty not balanced at the end of the day? Does it win too much compared to other tanks? Does it rank on top of the damage charts regularly? Is it the go to for stat padders? Arty is different but it is still balanced as well as anything else Wargaming tries to balance. Its just another class with a different specialty.

skytale #36 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 05:51

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So some players have been asking WG to remove arty and the answer has been "No". So now these same players are saying " OK, can I just remove arty from MY games? I think we can predict the answer is "No".

Mojo_Riesing #37 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 06:05

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View Postruar, on Sep 30 2018 - 17:23, said:

We all know artillery is a hotly debated issue.  People love it, people hate it, and the class as a whole has been changed and redesigned more than any other class in the game.  Ultimately there will never be a happy medium simply because artillery works so much differently than every other class.

 

I think in the end the only way to keep both pro-arty and anti-arty players happy is to have the option to play matches with no artillery allowed in the que.  People who dislike artillery will be able to play against tanks without all of the animosity and frustration that artillery brings to a match.

 

People who like artillery will be able to play matches with artillery and this would even allow artillery to be made more fun since the people in those matches are the ones who have no problems adapting and adjusting to the artillery mechanic.  More than likely the cap will have to be removed which will allow even more artillery into the match which will cut down on the wait times for people who do enjoy artillery.

 

I haven't been able to find any downside to having a toggle option.  After all, the pro-arty people have assured us that the anti-arty are a minority of the players so there won't be that many people in the no-arty que.  In fact, the wait times will probably be longer since so few people actually dislike artillery.

 

So having a toggle is win/win for everyone involved.  

 

There IS an option...it's called "BLITZ"...a different WG game, maybe you should try it.

_Katyusha___ #38 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 06:07

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what if you can choose to play only games that you can win?

 

That would be SOOOOOOOOOO NICE



Vardeman #39 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 06:13

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If you want to play without arty, go play Blitz.  That is all.

WhineMaker #40 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 06:50

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View Post_Katyusha___, on Sep 30 2018 - 21:07, said:

what if you can choose to play only games that you can win?

 

That would be SOOOOOOOOOO NICE

 

My grubby hands and credit card is ready and willing to pay for this premium option... :coin:




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