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Preferential Matchmaking Vehicles in Update 1.2


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Gnomon #1 Posted Oct 04 2018 - 15:58

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Hey, everyone! 

 

Hope that you're having a great week so far! 

 

I have some news that I know you all have been looking out for. In May we shared our plans for preferential matchmaking, which were later detailed in July. We went through our plan to improve pref MM vehicles and address the current issues with matchmaker. 

 

Today, I'm happy to share the latest info on the improvements to preferential matchmaking vehicles. These changes are designed to help them be much more competitive in both Tier VIII and IX battles. 

 

We have a nifty widget that details all the changes in our article, but I'll also list them in the spoiler below: Preferential Matchmaking Vehicles in Update 1.2

 

Here's a brief overview of the situation: 

  • Problem: Vehicles with preferential status are likely to get matched into dual or single-tier battles, where their status combined with combat parameters does more harm than good. In certain battles, they can’t compete with Tier IX and feel inferior against regular Tier VIII vehicles.
  • Goal: Improve the experience for preferential vehicles while keeping the preferential matchmaking parameter and their unique characteristics intact.
  • Solution: All-around vehicle rebalances on a vehicle-by-vehicle basis to improve their statistics combined with matchmaker rule revision. The latter is aimed at reducing instances of getting matched at the same position (top/middle/bottom) on the list for several battles in a row by fixing the current template distribution. Vehicles with the same base model, such as the WZ-111 and the WZ-111 Alpine Tiger, will get the same improvements.

 

The First Stage - What Has Been Done

Here are the steps we have already taken. We started with making characteristic and statistical changes to the 10 preferential matchmaking vehicles we currently have in-game to make them more competitive in same and +1 Tier battles, without making them perform better than non-preferential vehicles, as they will see +2 Tier battles.

 

All of this was done on the Supertest and we believe we got the desired result. In terms of combat effectiveness, these special Premium vehicles are now much closer to non-preferential matchmaking ones.

 

The Iterations: 

The following changes were available on the Supertest:

  • First iteration: Level the preferential matchmaking vehicles with each other
  • Second iteration: Choose the parameters for improving the vehicle’s characteristics on a case-by-case basis
  • Third iteration: Polishing these changes

Using statistics, it’s easy to see the big things that need changing, but stats alone are not enough. We also wanted to make minor changes, however, and this is where your feedback is vital. A request to increase the number of shells the IS-6 carries, for instance, doesn’t affect its combat effectiveness but will impact gameplay and how players feel while commanding the vehicle.

Work is complete for this step but we'll continue to monitor the stats and feedback in case additional changes need to be made. Now onto the more pressing issue for these vehicles: the matchmaker.

 

 

Next Steps
After the release of 9.18, the new matchmaker was introduced (with the 3-5-7 format). Yet, this system is not efficient for preferential matchmaking vehicles: after all, they aren’t as effective against their own Tier and the Tier higher. So, what can be done?

 

Our initial plan is to look at ways to change the matchmaker and control distribution among all six template possibilities. We cannot improve the current system without a full rework of the architecture, however, and this is planned for the future.

 

We are actively disassembling the current matchmaker, making important changes, and then adding them to the new system. A complex adjustment, to be sure, and one that needs time to ensure nothing breaks!

Due to the complexity of the issue, we'll have upcoming articles on the matchmaker and the changes required. In short, it requires delving into the entire matchmaker architecture, and is much more complicated than individual vehicle changes. We understand you want as much information as possible regarding this issue, and we'll release more as soon as we can.

 

Thanks, everyone! 



_Tsavo_ #2 Posted Oct 04 2018 - 16:04

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Copy pasta from other thread:

 

I think the preferential tanks that aren't 8s are okay, Panther/M10, T23E3, E25, TOG II, T14 heavy, Stug IV (reward stug) There's some lower tier ones but i forget.

 

Pref 8s I have that are getting buffs to some degree and my opinions on them:

 

-Hype 59 - Dunno about the buffs on it, it's a fairly strong one, bounce hat turret, okay gun, 7 degrees of depressions makes it shine.  The pen improvement of 4 won't really be noticed, but the gun handling and extra power will make it feel more snippy

 

-Super Pershing - It's sluggish in today's meta, but is quite capable of bullying same tier mediums, it's buffs will basically magnify it's current strengths which are juking in and out of cover and firing while juking.  The power buff means inclines will impact it slightly less

 

-Mutant 6- Pen above 200 will be nice, but it's not horrible now at 198.  Traverse and reverse speeds will help it survive.  50 extra health is negligible.  Maybe one or two more battles survived every few hundred games.  If the armor profile buffs are to the turret cheeks next to the gun mantlet this tank will be a strong contender for checking enemy heavies at the brawl spots

 

-FCM 50T- it's basically becoming a proper medium and getting 10 depression will make it even more sublime.  Dunno if this one needed it, it felt strong already.  It's always been a medium hiding under a heavy icon.

 

-KV-5- I'll have to play this one to see how it goes, it's good for shenanigans and KV-15 platoons, but in the age of ever-increasing pen and with the KV-5 seeing much less tier 6 and 7 tanks than before templates, it'll need substantial armor buffs to be enjoyable.  

 

 

Ones I've had but sold:

 

-Jigtig 8.8 - Might still not get it, even though it gets more HP and more pew, it's a big, slow, fixed gun tank that can have highlight moments but consistency will still be the breaking point on this one.

 

-IS6- (have IS-6B) the pen buffs will help, but there'll still be things that it can meet that it will have no hope of ever penning while still being buttered in return.  Dispersion is nice for mid range fights, I guess.

 

T-34-3 - will probably become a reclaimed vehicle.  -5 was no bueno, but 6.5 is far more flexible for the boom gun it's got.  That was my big frustration point and since I had the Type 59, the T-34-3 was basically outclassed and obsolete.

 

 

I have never played the 112 or WZ of many 1s so no opinion on them.

 

 

 

Though, I still think pref 8s don't need to be buffed.  But the rigid tempalte system that boned pref 8s neeeds to go or be loosened in how rigidly it adheres to the rotation.  A return to roughly 1/3 of the battles being top, middle, and bottom (with same tier being rare) would do the pref 8s much better than the buffs



Cognitive_Dissonance #3 Posted Oct 04 2018 - 16:25

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What are the "improved armor" characteristics for the KV-6, IS-6, Type 59, Super Pershing etc. They only say improved with no details.

YANKEE137 #4 Posted Oct 04 2018 - 16:26

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E-25 prolly needs no changes at all.  Stug IV would be nice to have swappable 105 Derp. Ditto  M4 Improved

dnaman #5 Posted Oct 04 2018 - 16:28

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M4 improved option or the derp would be really welcome.  

 

When en are these changes on the live server?



Konigwolfen #6 Posted Oct 04 2018 - 16:40

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Jagdtiger 8.8 already has a 5.18 second reload in-game with no modules. How is 5.1s, 0.3s less than 5.18s?

 

Logically 5.18 -0.3 = 4.88

 

Going over the gun by itself, its listed fire rate is 11.1 seconds. Which means its base reload is 5.40540

I still find it rather odd that you dont specify the change when considering a 100% crew.


Edited by Konigwolfen, Oct 04 2018 - 16:57.


Lesser_Spotted_Panzer #7 Posted Oct 04 2018 - 17:12

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I'm liking these changes. What is the release schedule for 1.2?

BabA_YA6A #8 Posted Oct 04 2018 - 17:24

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View PostGnomon, on Oct 04 2018 - 22:58, said:

Hey, everyone! 

 

Hope that you're having a great week so far! 

 

I have some news that I know you all have been looking out for. In May we shared our plans for preferential matchmaking, which were later detailed in July. We went through our plan to improve pref MM vehicles and address the current issues with matchmaker. 

 

Today, I'm happy to share the latest info on the improvements to preferential matchmaking vehicles. These changes are designed to help them be much more competitive in both Tier VIII and IX battles. 

 

We have a nifty widget that details all the changes in our article, but I'll also list them in the spoiler below: Preferential Matchmaking Vehicles in Update 1.2

 

Here's a brief overview of the situation: 

  • Problem: Vehicles with preferential status are likely to get matched into dual or single-tier battles, where their status combined with combat parameters does more harm than good. In certain battles, they can’t compete with Tier IX and feel inferior against regular Tier VIII vehicles.
  • Goal: Improve the experience for preferential vehicles while keeping the preferential matchmaking parameter and their unique characteristics intact.
  • Solution: All-around vehicle rebalances on a vehicle-by-vehicle basis to improve their statistics combined with matchmaker rule revision. The latter is aimed at reducing instances of getting matched at the same position (top/middle/bottom) on the list for several battles in a row by fixing the current template distribution. Vehicles with the same base model, such as the WZ-111 and the WZ-111 Alpine Tiger, will get the same improvements.

 

The First Stage - What Has Been Done

Here are the steps we have already taken. We started with making characteristic and statistical changes to the 10 preferential matchmaking vehicles we currently have in-game to make them more competitive in same and +1 Tier battles, without making them perform better than non-preferential vehicles, as they will see +2 Tier battles.

 

All of this was done on the Supertest and we believe we got the desired result. In terms of combat effectiveness, these special Premium vehicles are now much closer to non-preferential matchmaking ones.

 

The Iterations: 

The following changes were available on the Supertest:

  • First iteration: Level the preferential matchmaking vehicles with each other
  • Second iteration: Choose the parameters for improving the vehicle’s characteristics on a case-by-case basis
  • Third iteration: Polishing these changes

Using statistics, it’s easy to see the big things that need changing, but stats alone are not enough. We also wanted to make minor changes, however, and this is where your feedback is vital. A request to increase the number of shells the IS-6 carries, for instance, doesn’t affect its combat effectiveness but will impact gameplay and how players feel while commanding the vehicle.

Work is complete for this step but we'll continue to monitor the stats and feedback in case additional changes need to be made. Now onto the more pressing issue for these vehicles: the matchmaker.

 

 

Next Steps
After the release of 9.18, the new matchmaker was introduced (with the 3-5-7 format). Yet, this system is not efficient for preferential matchmaking vehicles: after all, they aren’t as effective against their own Tier and the Tier higher. So, what can be done?

 

Our initial plan is to look at ways to change the matchmaker and control distribution among all six template possibilities. We cannot improve the current system without a full rework of the architecture, however, and this is planned for the future.

 

We are actively disassembling the current matchmaker, making important changes, and then adding them to the new system. A complex adjustment, to be sure, and one that needs time to ensure nothing breaks!

Due to the complexity of the issue, we'll have upcoming articles on the matchmaker and the changes required. In short, it requires delving into the entire matchmaker architecture, and is much more complicated than individual vehicle changes. We understand you want as much information as possible regarding this issue, and we'll release more as soon as we can.

 

Thanks, everyone! 

 

This subject is been ongoing for almost a year and I must wonder how much longer the polishing of the vehicles will take???

I guess wargaming is waxing the vehicles as well with carnauba wax!



CW4_Retired96 #9 Posted Oct 04 2018 - 17:26

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I’ve been playing the KV-5 just about daily for the past two weeks, or so.  It’s still easy DMG farming for other Tier 8s and some Tier 7s. VERY low chance against Tier 9s.  Doesn’t seem much improved to me.

Obj_279 #10 Posted Oct 04 2018 - 17:35

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Don't think those 186mm pens will be sufficient in current matter. But it's better than nothing.

RoundsDownRange #11 Posted Oct 04 2018 - 17:37

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So when is Tier X Preferential Match making going to get fixed? Tired of play Tier VIII and always fighting Tier X’s Used the same Tier VIII for 100 Battles, got 83 Tier X fights, 6 Tier IXs and 11 Tier VIIIs.

It’s why I don’t play Tier VIIIs anymore, tired of feeding the Tier X players credits and XP.

So fixing this “current” problem means nothing since it was not broke.  You need to fix match making so players who enjoy VIIIs are not getting [edited]slapped every time they play.



Moose_Nuts #12 Posted Oct 04 2018 - 17:41

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Man ya'll need to leave peoples premium tanks the hell alone. We dont continue to give you our hard earned money for you to constantly screw with them.

 



Moose_Nuts #13 Posted Oct 04 2018 - 17:47

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When you introduce tanks whether they are OP or not, all sales should be "as is". And if it just so happens to be extremely OP that's your problem not ours. If you go to a dealership and buy a car, they dont come back and say "oh, we accidentally sold you an upgraded version, you must return the vehicle and take a crappier version" No, that's not how it works. :angry:

RoundsDownRange #14 Posted Oct 04 2018 - 17:57

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It is in Soviet Russian, yeah the names where changed when the broke up but the mind set is still the same.  It's why I have gone form playing 4 to 5 hours a night down to 4 to 5 a week with several weeks of not playing at all anymore.  They started with a pretty good game but have driven it into the ground to the point of it not being playable anymore and the fun was sucked out of it long ago.  Warships is going down that path, just at a much faster rate.

 

Its sad because these could have been great games if they would have just stuck to history and kept their greed level down.  Oh well. 



latvius #15 Posted Oct 04 2018 - 18:02

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Glad to see they are addressing the issues.  I think they are headed in the right direction now that they got the architect of the obj wthv4 out of the drivers seat.

Altwar #16 Posted Oct 04 2018 - 18:13

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View PostMoose_Nuts, on Oct 04 2018 - 08:47, said:

When you introduce tanks whether they are OP or not, all sales should be "as is". And if it just so happens to be extremely OP that's your problem not ours. If you go to a dealership and buy a car, they dont come back and say "oh, we accidentally sold you an upgraded version, you must return the vehicle and take a crappier version" No, that's not how it works. :angry:

 

Problem with this analogy is that when you buy a car, you own it.  Its yours.  Look in your garage/driveway/car port and there it is.  If the zombie apocalypse comes, its still yours, though you may have no fuel to make it run and you'll have to deal with pesky survivors who no longer respect your ownership papers.

 

With these tanks, you buy a virtual usage.  Its yours only as long as WoT is around.  If the zombie apocalypse comes, you'll no longer have a reliable power source to power up and the WoT server will likely be gone, especially as its already been infiltrated with zombies for years.  Thus, our tanks, pref mm and otherwise will no longer exist but in memories.

 

A lazy analogy on my part during a work break but hopefully you get the point.  I'd rather Wargaming not futz around with my pref mm tanks either when they could focus on things like bringing Dragon Ridge back.

 

Meanwhile I'll leave it to the objective, better informed minds than mine to detail if this latest information means good or bad things ahead.



physics2001 #17 Posted Oct 04 2018 - 18:19

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Have they ever considered that t-34-3 now beats t-34-2 in almost every aspect except a little bit behind in mobility? What happened to "​without making them perform better than non-preferential vehicles"? Should have buffed t-34-2 a long time ago

LeaveIT2Beaver #18 Posted Oct 04 2018 - 18:30

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View PostMoose_Nuts, on Oct 04 2018 - 11:41, said:

Man ya'll need to leave peoples premium tanks the hell alone. We dont continue to give you our hard earned money for you to constantly screw with them.

 

 



Tuzban #19 Posted Oct 04 2018 - 18:32

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View Post_Tsavo_, on Oct 04 2018 - 15:04, said:

I think the preferential tanks that aren't 8s are okay, Panther/M10, T23E3, E25, TOG II, T14 heavy, Stug IV (reward stug) There's some lower tier ones but i forget.

 

I agree with pretty much everything in your post, except TOG II. It's not okay. It needs a mobility buff. Or something, but I think an "American TD mobility treatment" would be enough to fix the vehicle. This is coming from someone who has two-marked their TOG II, if that counts for anything.

 

About 112 and its siblings. It was always similar to IS-6, but with (way) more reliable armor, and better premium pen. The aim time is horrible, but I don't think it holds the tank back. If you can manage T-34-3 aim time, it's pretty comparable.



90210_Hero #20 Posted Oct 04 2018 - 18:33

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View Postphysics2001, on Oct 04 2018 - 12:19, said:

Have they ever considered that t-34-3 now beats t-34-2 in almost every aspect except a little bit behind in mobility? What happened to "​without making them perform better than non-preferential vehicles"? Should have buffed t-34-2 a long time ago

 

Because people use the 122 on the T-34-2. It's like the T-44. The 122 is a novelty, it's not viable. The 34-2 should use the 100mm like the type 59. Of course after these buffs it'll be even more obsolete compared to both than it already was, but at least it isn't a T32. The mutant laughs at its brother in 105mm T5E1E, since the "E" now stands for "extra pen" on what is essentially the same gun firing the same ammo.

Edited by 90210_Hero, Oct 04 2018 - 18:35.





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