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If Arty Were To Be Removed.

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Poll: If Arty Were To Be Removed. (104 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 100 battles in order to participate this poll.

What would happen?

  1. I'll celebrate. (55 votes [52.88%])

    Percentage of vote: 52.88%

  2. I'll be indifferent. (11 votes [10.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.58%

  3. I'll stop playing. (11 votes [10.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.58%

  4. I'll still play, but will probably find another game. (7 votes [6.73%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.73%

  5. I'll quit and find another game. (14 votes [13.46%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.46%

  6. Somebody will start accusing another class of being broken. (6 votes [5.77%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.77%

Vote Hide poll

Thunder_Storm_713 #41 Posted Oct 06 2018 - 06:57

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View PostWhineMaker, on Oct 06 2018 - 17:47, said:

Sounds like those bright red 'mater players, in arty, is consistently outplaying you... :hiding:

 

 

Yes, you are 100% correct there. You have outplayed me numerous times, at least you got something right.



Thunder_Storm_713 #42 Posted Oct 06 2018 - 06:58

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View PostHaruhi_Suzumiya_, on Oct 06 2018 - 17:57, said:

 

Moron, there's always things to fix. "Whining" gets the attention of the company to improve their game, if whining didn't exist we players would get the shaft and the game would be the same as when it came out. It just so happens that artillery is the top 3 biggest and longest lasting problems for great players who understand the game better than you. 

 

Correct.

zoomer96 #43 Posted Oct 06 2018 - 07:30

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I am an incompetent arty player.  I am not competitive and am a nuisance to the game.  Until they take arty out of the game I will uncompetitively not compete and be as much of a nuisance as I can.   Thank you very much.

 

P.S. I am not apologizing for supporting my team.


Edited by zoomer96, Oct 06 2018 - 08:25.


Thunder_Storm_713 #44 Posted Oct 06 2018 - 07:36

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lol

Edited by Thunder_Storm_713, Oct 06 2018 - 07:37.


Thunder_Storm_713 #45 Posted Oct 06 2018 - 07:38

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View Postzoomer96, on Oct 06 2018 - 18:30, said:

I am an incompetent arty player.  I am not competitive and am a nuisance to the game.  Until they take arty out of the game I will uncompetitively not compete and be as much of a nuisance as I can.   Thank you very much.  

 

​To be fair to arty players, your statement is a bit ironic, which I find hilarious.

scHnuuudle_bop #46 Posted Oct 06 2018 - 09:42

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View PostHellsfog, on Oct 06 2018 - 06:06, said:

 

You describe exactly what we frequently get now. Arty doesn't fire at hidden TDs or invisible heavies. Nobody does, which because they are hidden or invisible. What arty typically does is fire at the same visible tanks until they hide behind something and then arty fixates on the next visible target or follow some poor player around the map the entire match. Arty punishes active play and slows the game down. It punishes the aggressive play which tends to reveal hidden TDs.

 

The premise of this thread is idiotic but this post is the winner. 

 

I think you miss the point. The OP said that if there was no long range in-direct support fire then - TDs that are appropriated to 'sniping' from afar would also thrive, no arty to force them to move.

 

This would allow these snipers, hidden or not, to control choke points or other areas of the map, with no way to get them to move, or at least without difficulty.

The better their hiding spots, the more effective they are, less movement. All it takes is 1 or 2, and that corridor is blocked. The other end of the corridor, parks red snipers. No one can really move.

Artillery can help, by either shooting at them while spotted, or with blind fire on these well known sniper locations. If nothing else, artillery can annoy or damage them enough to convince them to find another spot. This would allow their teammates to move up freely, and then become dynamic instead of static. Until of course they encounter more resistance.

 

If artillery is removed, this support option goes with it. It would create some very static and slow battles. Sure flanking or sheer numbers can accomplish this, but with corridor maps this  becomes unlikely, and for one of those fast rushes, requires some team co-ordination, which seems to be in missing a lot of battles

The artillery helps, by saving their team some damage and perhaps some vehicles, as well as time.

 

I think he was trying to say, that if this happens, then the next thing to get frustrated and angry about will be these players sitting in the back, with few options to get them out, and get the game moving, if that is successful, who knows, rage about lights or 100kph armoured cars and their circle of death.


Edited by scHnuuudle_bop, Oct 06 2018 - 09:47.


ProfessionalFinn #47 Posted Oct 06 2018 - 12:58

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The M53/M55 SPG rocks.

 



Fractured_Raptor #48 Posted Oct 06 2018 - 13:57

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View PostscHnuuudle_bop, on Oct 06 2018 - 03:42, said:

 

I think you miss the point. The OP said that if there was no long range in-direct support fire then - TDs that are appropriated to 'sniping' from afar would also thrive, no arty to force them to move.

 

This would allow these snipers, hidden or not, to control choke points or other areas of the map, with no way to get them to move, or at least without difficulty.

The better their hiding spots, the more effective they are, less movement. All it takes is 1 or 2, and that corridor is blocked. The other end of the corridor, parks red snipers. No one can really move.

Artillery can help, by either shooting at them while spotted, or with blind fire on these well known sniper locations. If nothing else, artillery can annoy or damage them enough to convince them to find another spot. This would allow their teammates to move up freely, and then become dynamic instead of static. Until of course they encounter more resistance.

 

If artillery is removed, this support option goes with it. It would create some very static and slow battles. Sure flanking or sheer numbers can accomplish this, but with corridor maps this  becomes unlikely, and for one of those fast rushes, requires some team co-ordination, which seems to be in missing a lot of battles

The artillery helps, by saving their team some damage and perhaps some vehicles, as well as time.

 

I think he was trying to say, that if this happens, then the next thing to get frustrated and angry about will be these players sitting in the back, with few options to get them out, and get the game moving, if that is successful, who knows, rage about lights or 100kph armoured cars and their circle of death.

 

You're missing the point. Destroyers who support from the back are the last the be lit unless they get too close and get lit after they fire. So tell me ... how does artillery " keep them moving " when artillery can't even see them? 

Fly_Guy8791 #49 Posted Oct 06 2018 - 14:21

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View PostFractured_Raptor, on Oct 06 2018 - 06:57, said:

 

You're missing the point. Destroyers who support from the back are the last the be lit unless they get too close and get lit after they fire. So tell me ... how does artillery " keep them moving " when artillery can't even see them? 

 

It doesn't. It really is that simple.

 

And it actually encourages those TD's to hide so they don't get dumped on.



Hellsfog #50 Posted Oct 06 2018 - 14:26

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View PostscHnuuudle_bop, on Oct 06 2018 - 03:42, said:

 

I think you miss the point. The OP said that if there was no long range in-direct support fire then - TDs that are appropriated to 'sniping' from afar would also thrive, no arty to force them to move.

 

This would allow these snipers, hidden or not, to control choke points or other areas of the map, with no way to get them to move, or at least without difficulty.

The better their hiding spots, the more effective they are, less movement. All it takes is 1 or 2, and that corridor is blocked. The other end of the corridor, parks red snipers. No one can really move.

Artillery can help, by either shooting at them while spotted, or with blind fire on these well known sniper locations. If nothing else, artillery can annoy or damage them enough to convince them to find another spot. This would allow their teammates to move up freely, and then become dynamic instead of static. Until of course they encounter more resistance.

 

If artillery is removed, this support option goes with it. It would create some very static and slow battles. Sure flanking or sheer numbers can accomplish this, but with corridor maps this  becomes unlikely, and for one of those fast rushes, requires some team co-ordination, which seems to be in missing a lot of battles

The artillery helps, by saving their team some damage and perhaps some vehicles, as well as time.

 

I think he was trying to say, that if this happens, then the next thing to get frustrated and angry about will be these players sitting in the back, with few options to get them out, and get the game moving, if that is successful, who knows, rage about lights or 100kph armoured cars and their circle of death.

 

You're missing the point. Arty does not fire at hidden targets.  That's not arty hate, that's a fact of the game. Nobody fires at hidden targets. Saying that arty digs out camping tD's is simply not what happens in pub matches. 

Pipinghot #51 Posted Oct 06 2018 - 15:39

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View PostThunder_Storm_713, on Oct 06 2018 - 00:28, said:

View PostPipinghot, on Oct 06 2018 - 17:22, said:

Even if your assessment of players' opinions is true (and I'm not saying it is, since it's purely subjective) the first point that Hurk made is undeniably correct. It's simply a fact that "arty is the least effective class in game", which means that all of the arty haters are complaining about something that is objectively the smallest possible problem for their ability to win battles.

"Arty is the least effective class in the game".

It also has the highest chance of ruining a good carry out of all classes, due to the large splash that can hurt you behind "arty safe" cover, the increased crew damage and the stun. 

That's obviously false logic. Being the least effective class also means it also has the lowest chance of ruining a good carry. "Effectiveness" goes both ways, it's the least effective at carrying and it's the least effective and stopping carries. You just notice it more when it's an arty stopping a carry, because you're already predisposed to dislike them, you're just having an old fashioned case of confirmation bias.

View PostThunder_Storm_713, on Oct 06 2018 - 00:28, said:

It is also undeniably the easiest class to play. Bad players can do decent in arty fairly easily.

Yes, that's sort of true, but not the way you're phrased it. Bad players can do better in arty than in other classes, but they still can't "do decent" fairly easy, because there's a limit to arty's effectiveness. Bad players can win more often in arty, but not by a lot. Also, even though arty is the easiest class to learn how to play, but it also has the lowest skill ceiling, limiting the ability of even good players to carry games while playing arty.

 

Bad players get a slight boost to their effectiveness by playing arty, but it never boosts them enough that it can make them look like good players. Bad players are still bad, and still contribute less, and still win less often. In the meanwhile, even when good players want to play arty their ability to carry their teams is hampered, so good players know that arty is their least effective class.

 

All in all that's a pretty good system, it helps the game retain more players since bad players can enjoy the game more with arty, and yet good players still get the benefits of being good by carrying in other classes. In the end, that's a win-win for the game, because arty helps with player retention and everyone has more opponents to keep the game going.

View PostThunder_Storm_713, on Oct 06 2018 - 00:28, said:

It is also the most difficult class to outplay. You can easily outflank a turretless TD, perma-track a superheavy while circling it, outspot an enemy light tank using an aggressive bush. What can you do for arty? Other than hide and reduce the impact you have on the battle.

It's too bad you're not joking, because you should be.

"You can easily outflank a turretless TD" - if you're close enough to see where the arty is, it's even easier to outflank it than to outflank a TD, so clearly arty is weaker than TD's.

You can "perma-track a superheavy while circling it" - that is also much easier with an arty than with a super heavy, because obviously it is.

You can "outspot an enemy light tank using an aggressive bush" - if you can't outspot an arty then you're doing something horribly wrong.

What you can do for arty, since both teams have arty, is simply be better at knowing how & where to not get hit. If your team is even slightly smarter about arty than the enemy team you'll do better pretty consistently.



commander42 #52 Posted Oct 06 2018 - 20:21

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View PostThunder_Storm_713, on Oct 06 2018 - 00:28, said:

 

"Arty is the least effective class in the game".

It also has the highest chance of ruining a good carry out of all classes, due to the large splash that can hurt you behind "arty safe" cover, the increased crew damage and the stun.

It is also undeniably the easiest class to play. Bad players can do decent in arty fairly easily.

It is also the most difficult class to outplay. You can easily outflank a turretless TD, perma-track a superheavy while circling it, outspot an enemy light tank using an aggressive bush. What can you do for arty? Other than hide and reduce the impact you have on the battle.

 

arty is the easiest class to outplay, it has terrible view range and camo(and rate of fire, and pen, and most have poor mobility).  If you cannot outplay an arty the player isn't "good".  For those same reasons it is also the least likely to ruin a "good carry".

The only thing that is true in your most is the easiest class to play at a minimum level(It also has the lowest ceiling for many of the same reasons)

Genzing #53 Posted Oct 07 2018 - 07:31

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View PostHurk, on Oct 05 2018 - 18:30, said:

my opinion, is that you are completely wrong and whining about nothing. because you are unwilling to accept the truth: 

arty is the least effective class in game, and if you think otherwise, you simply suck at playing. 

 

 

I'm not whining about anything, I stated some half baked opinions of what came to mind when writing the topic, if it came off as whining, I sincerely apologize because that's not what I had intended. I don't have anything against arty, it's a viable class for people that enjoy it, which I, myself do enjoy playing here and there. I've never thought of arty as being a more effective class than the other four in the game. I was trying to inspire conversations about what the state of the game would come to if the entire class itself were to be removed, which everyone knows, it will not, its been stated again and again. 



Genzing #54 Posted Oct 07 2018 - 07:32

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View PostProfessionalFinn, on Oct 06 2018 - 03:58, said:

The M53/M55 SPG rocks.

 

 

It does! Although, I haven't played it since I moved onto the T92 HMC, might have to pick it up again!

Genzing #55 Posted Oct 07 2018 - 07:36

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View PostchoSenfroZen_1, on Oct 05 2018 - 19:57, said:

 

what a pile.

xvm sniping, yep, 20% who have it installed, the rest just magically use it.

 

but he summed it up perfectly,  - TDs that are appropriated to 'sniping' from afar would also thrive, no arty to force them to move..

 

 

It would turn into a boring painful, stationary snore fest, hidden td's and invisible heavies, making sure the first who moves goes back to garage sobbing because the meanghost td ruined his game, boo hoo, within 6 months, this whine would change from sob arty was mean to please oh please WG only 3 td's per team, then OMFG, more than 1 td ruins my game, snivel snivel. Please WG get rid of td's. and on, until we get the Atari game Tanks.

 

oh and by the way, why bother with a poll, if all you are doing is asking for people to agree with you , instead of asking questions to see what the opinion is.

 

It was a half baked poll, I'll admit that much. And I didn't realize that the poll really just made people agree with me, so I sincerely apologize for that. The poll was based on the title, "If arty were to be removed." Meaning in the non existent event that it is removed( Which will never happen). What would you do? I didn't think it would give off a very biased vibe which again, I apologize for.

Genzing #56 Posted Oct 07 2018 - 07:44

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View PostPipinghot, on Oct 05 2018 - 21:19, said:

In that case you are truly awful at being neutral. Everything you said was objectively incorrect, and was already completely debunked by Hurk. Since you're obviously incapable of being neutral about arty, you shouldn't try, you're just going to fail at it.

 

You have every right to dislike arty, it's your presonal preference and you're entitled to it. But at least be honest enough with yourself to know that you can't be neutral and you're never going to be honest about the facts.

 

I apologize for my apparently idiotic half baked post. I tried, I failed, doesn't mean I won't try again. I typically try to post topics that insinuate well mannered discussion, apparently that doesn't work out. So again I apologize. I actually don't dislike arty, it's a fun class to play at times and I don't foresee it ever being removed. 

fodder49s #57 Posted Oct 07 2018 - 08:33

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I played some arty for missions tonight. I have little experience in arty, but as a light player, I purposely fired at moving scouts and had an alarmingly high success rate on what were pure snap shots with a lousy crew. I was landing shots on tanks that had absolutely no business being in the same zip code. 

 

I felt like a bum. Although I had little prior experience to guide me, a garbage crew that should've been in tier 2, and no equipment to "enhance" my performance, I ruined games for folks that were doing what they were supposed to do. I really felt like a bum.

 

I have no clue how anyone can think this is good for the game. I managed to get my 30 stuns in 4 games (one was a city map, another was Mines). This class requires no skill, just rng. 



TpainT #58 Posted Oct 07 2018 - 14:59

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Over 70% would rejoice or wouldn't care if spgs are removed in a forum that has ran off most of the decent player base to other forums. I find this hilarious.

 

Who is the minority again?



ProfessionalFinn #59 Posted Oct 07 2018 - 15:33

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View PostTpainT, on Oct 07 2018 - 14:59, said:

Over 70% would rejoice or wouldn't care if spgs are removed in a forum that has ran off most of the decent player base to other forums. I find this hilarious.

 

Who is the minority again?

 

70%? Where did you get this number again? Someplace dark and skanky?

StoneTitan #60 Posted Oct 07 2018 - 15:53

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Just remember, this forum doesn't matter, NA doesn't matter, you don't matter............the only thing that matters is Minsk.;)





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