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Cluster muinitions would solve most of the problems with high tier Arty by capping damage


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Dogg_zilla #1 Posted Oct 09 2018 - 18:46

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As a tier X arty owner, I have to be honest. 

 

The largest arty really just dont belong in the game, but cant really be replaced without making the heaviest tanks too OP as a result. They provide balance. 

 

The solution to the Arty problem is extremely simple. Replace the massive HE rounds with cluster HEAT so that smaller vehicles cant be obliterated by one massive round. 

 

Using HEAT cluster munitions reduces the maximum damage to any given tank. If its spewing out 10 or 20 little 150-300 damage heat warheads from above, a TD or light tank will be hit with exactly the same force as a heavy, since they all have fairly thin top armor. 

 

This keeps the damage the same against heavy vehicles but reduces it greatly against smaller vehicles, as being hit with 1-3 small heat warheads damages them the same as it does against larger tanks. It would hit for 150-750 damage like it does to Heavy tanks, instead of just obliterating them. 

 

This also would allow a way to dig out tanks behind objects without causing too much damage. Since it sprays the little warheads in every direction, and they would have a somewhat limited ability to hit objects behind them. So it doesnt completely nerf the arty. 

 

Basically its replacing the ability to nuke light and medium vehicles with a more evenly spread out damage over a wider area. 

 

 

 

 

 



TDRHooRaH #2 Posted Oct 09 2018 - 18:55

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Arty problem?

 

Pretty easy to not take hits in light and medium vehicles though.

 

 



Dogg_zilla #3 Posted Oct 09 2018 - 19:00

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There are like 2000 threads about removing the arty. 

 

But nobody can find a solution anyone can agree on. I think this kind of eliminates the biggest complaint, which is lighter vehicles being obliterated in one shot. 

 

Hell, the tier X arty can even obliterate many tier 9 heavies. 

 

This eliminates the ability to do that without removing the ability to counter the heaviest vehicles. It hits them all for the same. 


Edited by Dogg_zilla, Oct 09 2018 - 19:01.


_Promote_Synergy_ #4 Posted Oct 09 2018 - 19:04

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The main fix to arty right now would to be limiting them to only 1 in pub battles. In clan wars you can use them to dig out camps and crack turtle defenses, so no arty limits there. The notion that arty stops camping in pubs is laughable.

 

The stun mechanic sucks at the moment because the blast radius' of the arties are so large. If the stun mechanic or blast radius was brought down a little, the current arty is fine(ish). In my eyes arty accuracy or aim time needs a nerf because they are way to accurate at the moment. It takes no skill to do mostly well in arty.

 

What you suggested isn't a good idea OP, but it opens up a discussion that arty is pretty annoying for the player base.



Dogg_zilla #5 Posted Oct 09 2018 - 19:11

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What are you even talking about?

 

Camping is a problem in all modes, and they already reduced accuracy by a huge amount. 

 

And stun would be eliminated if they changed the type of round. 

 

So yes, it answers what you talked about. 



_Promote_Synergy_ #6 Posted Oct 09 2018 - 19:15

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View PostDogg_zilla, on Oct 09 2018 - 18:11, said:

What are you even talking about?

 

Camping is a problem in all modes, and they already reduced accuracy by a huge amount. 

 

And stun would be eliminated if they changed the type of round. 

 

So yes, it answers what you talked about. 

 

The camping I am talking about it when 15 enemies sit in the back and use their lights to keep your team away. Aka clan wars. The camping in pubs is annoying but so easy to work around, at least for me.

 

Your idea is a bad one on the shell type. Bring back AP, then arty is actually forced to hit you instead of the vicinity of your tank.



RMxR #7 Posted Oct 09 2018 - 19:23

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HEAT rounds?

Nope, these rounds are not effective in most cases. However the idea of adding cluster rounds that deal less damage is a bit more attractive but in that case WG should just nerf (again) the damage that arty deals.

Light armored tanks are vulnerable to arty but that's the point, as a lighter vehicle you have to be more cautious and/or faster thus making you hard to hit. If you nerf arty penetration values or alpha damage (again) it will be a useless class, thin armored tanks will be safe but now heavy turds like the japanese heavy tanks will be invulnerable and more OP than ever.

Bad_Oedipus #8 Posted Oct 09 2018 - 19:31

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View Post_Promote_Synergy_, on Oct 09 2018 - 13:15, said:

 

The camping I am talking about it when 15 enemies sit in the back and use their lights to keep your team away. Aka clan wars. The camping in pubs is annoying but so easy to work around, at least for me.

 

Defending ice road on Mountain Pass comes to mind... Nothing but Type 5s, Mice and E3s sitting behind a mountain waiting for you to come in.... yea you  need 3 SPGs to dig them out.

 

We could add thermonuclear munitions so we don't have to worry about penetration and stun :teethhappy:  loading time 900 seconds.


Edited by Bad_Oedipus, Oct 09 2018 - 19:32.


_Promote_Synergy_ #9 Posted Oct 09 2018 - 19:39

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View PostBad_Oedipus, on Oct 09 2018 - 18:31, said:

 

Defending ice road on Mountain Pass comes to mind... Nothing but Type 5s, Mice and E3s sitting behind a mountain waiting for you to come in.... yea you  need 3 SPGs to dig them out.

 

We could add thermonuclear munitions so we don't have to worry about penetration and stun :teethhappy:  loading time 900 seconds.

 

Nothing too hard for 277's and Russian hovermeds to deal with since they out DPM a couple Type 5's and E3's. That map is also annoying for both teams since it is easily defensible each side. 

 

A good STRV 103B player on one side can easily farm 5k damage against a stupid team.



heavymetal1967 #10 Posted Oct 09 2018 - 19:39

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They're likely introducing a stun debuff when they rework crew skills. 

 

Aside from that I don't see them changing much else including the cap limit.  Though personally I think it could be lowered to 2 with no issues.  Not sure about one per, because face it the only reason it's likely capped at three is due to queue concerns.  But three may be their optimum cap because back when they first capped it (at five per) they tried a cap limit of three and it wouldn't work.



Almighty_Johnson #11 Posted Oct 09 2018 - 19:42

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View PostDogg_zilla, on Oct 09 2018 - 12:46, said:

As a tier X arty owner, I have to be honest. 

 

The largest arty really just dont belong in the game, but cant really be replaced without making the heaviest tanks too OP as a result. They provide balance. 

 

The solution to the Arty problem is extremely simple. Replace the massive HE rounds with cluster HEAT so that smaller vehicles cant be obliterated by one massive round. 

 

Using HEAT cluster munitions reduces the maximum damage to any given tank. If its spewing out 10 or 20 little 150-300 damage heat warheads from above, a TD or light tank will be hit with exactly the same force as a heavy, since they all have fairly thin top armor. 

 

This keeps the damage the same against heavy vehicles but reduces it greatly against smaller vehicles, as being hit with 1-3 small heat warheads damages them the same as it does against larger tanks. It would hit for 150-750 damage like it does to Heavy tanks, instead of just obliterating them. 

 

This also would allow a way to dig out tanks behind objects without causing too much damage. Since it sprays the little warheads in every direction, and they would have a somewhat limited ability to hit objects behind them. So it doesnt completely nerf the arty. 

 

Basically its replacing the ability to nuke light and medium vehicles with a more evenly spread out damage over a wider area. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have not (and haven't been in return) one shotted any tank in an arty since the great Arty Nerf of 9.18.  I'd love to see server stats of how many tanks have been one-shot killed server wide in say, the past year.....   I bet it's a really small number.

Dogg_zilla #12 Posted Oct 09 2018 - 20:05

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I one shot lights all the time, and sometimes TDs. 

 

Its actually possible to one shot an FV4005, Ive seen it several times. 


Edited by Dogg_zilla, Oct 09 2018 - 20:06.


_Promote_Synergy_ #13 Posted Oct 09 2018 - 20:16

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Big think. FV4005 has 1850 HP. While the T92 has 1,300 average damage. Max 1625 with a +25% rng roll. So it is impossible to one shot a full HP Tier 10 tank that is not an LT.

Bad_Oedipus #14 Posted Oct 09 2018 - 20:24

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View Post_Promote_Synergy_, on Oct 09 2018 - 14:16, said:

Big think. FV4005 has 1850 HP. While the T92 has 1,300 average damage. Max 1625 with a +25% rng roll. So it is impossible to one shot a full HP Tier 10 tank that is not an LT.

 

Ammo rack... done that with SPGs

_Promote_Synergy_ #15 Posted Oct 09 2018 - 20:25

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View PostBad_Oedipus, on Oct 09 2018 - 19:24, said:

 

Ammo rack... done that with SPGs

 

So? I can do the same with a 277 or my 430u and a well aimed shot. It is not the same as a full HP high explosive pen, which is impossible.



Altwar #16 Posted Oct 09 2018 - 20:39

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View Post_Promote_Synergy_, on Oct 09 2018 - 11:16, said:

Big think. FV4005 has 1850 HP. While the T92 has 1,300 average damage. Max 1625 with a +25% rng roll. So it is impossible to one shot a full HP Tier 10 tank that is not an LT.

 

I can't remember the last time my T92 hit for anything remotely close to it's tankopedia entry, other than when it's a direct hit on a full health 1150 hp Scorpion G, and those chances have been quite rare.

 

Taking out a non-light, non-SPG in one shot can be done if the planets align and a ammo rack explosion occurs though...



DVK9 #17 Posted Oct 09 2018 - 22:08

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I love it when I can 1 shot a light that is racing full speed across the map. luck and Kentucky windage is all that is needed.

I do miss the days of taking out heavies with a BLIND 1 shot. Oh the river of tears, gnashing of teeth and most likely the blacklisting of my name was part of the fun



pepe_trueno #18 Posted Oct 10 2018 - 00:58

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a better option is to take world of warships aproach, the big boomsticks can shoot from the other side of the battlefield and do loads of damage on hit but the travel time is huge making hitting moving vehicles specialy fast ones a big no no unless they are sitting still or traveling in a very predictable path.

choSenfroZen_1 #19 Posted Oct 10 2018 - 07:37

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View Postpepe_trueno, on Oct 09 2018 - 15:58, said:

a better option is to take world of warships aproach, the big boomsticks can shoot from the other side of the battlefield and do loads of damage on hit but the travel time is huge making hitting moving vehicles specialy fast ones a big no no unless they are sitting still or traveling in a very predictable path.

 

Warships is basically a floating artillery battle, and the shell travel time is already in tanks, and the same as you say here applies . Those who move fast are last choice for battleships to shoot, stationary (not too often) first. 

 

What I love is the almost word for word rantings about carriers as there are about artillery.

They can be mean to me, and I can't be mean back, they don't belong in a game with battleships. They operate different so are broken. 



Dogg_zilla #20 Posted Oct 10 2018 - 20:33

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Arty already does loads of damage. 

 

Thats the whole problem. We dont need to make it worse. 

 

Cluster munitions would level the playing field by making sure there is a maximum amount of damage possible regardless of class. 

 

 






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