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The do's and the don'ts - XVM stats, Chance to win, and attitude


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TankFullOfBourbon #1 Posted Oct 30 2018 - 12:18

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Hiya tankers,

 

I am writing this because I want to give back a little. Over the years I have received a bunch of help and support in WOT and I think I should try to do the same. With the do's and the don'ts I will try to give newer players some insights that I have made regarding a specific topic. Today I want to address XVM statistics, XVM Chance to win, and your attitude towards the information provided by XVM, or any other mods that provides player stats.

 

XVM is a mod with a number of nifty features, like enemy tanks' last known position, the view and draw range visualized in the map as circles, a hit log and a damage log, etc. As you see, most of these nifty features have already been picked up by WOT and is now part of vanilla, but there are some XVM features you won't find in vanilla: XVM player stats and XVM Chance to win. And to be honest, this is the main reason why players get XVM these days. Yes, there are probably other nifty things, but really, the main reason players still get XVM is for the XVM stats. Not all players using XVM care for the Chance to win though, that must be said. 

 

XVM (eXtended Visualization Mod) is a free open source mod that you download in your res_mods folder. It uses public WOT api's to collect player statistics, so nothing of this is illegal. The Battle Prediction is XVM's own algorithm, I don't know, nor do I care, how it is formulated. Obviously there are other mods that also have player stats, and some also have battle predictions - in this Do's and Don'ts I call all of these mods XVM for sake of simplicity.

 

XVM Player Statistics:

XVM player stats show a number of statistical info about the players on your team and on the enemy team in the Battle Team Roster in the initial start screen and when you press Tab. The stats will show you the player's Win Rate, number of played battles, and WN8 stat. The WN8 is an independent statistic that is based on your combined performance in the individual tanks you have played. It's too time-consuming to go into the details of WN8 but it is supposed to be a "fair" stat as it does not consider your win rate but it does consider the tank you are playing. XVM may also provide other player performance stats (kill rate, damage rate, WN7, and Personal Rating, etc) but it really doesn't matter for this discussion. 

 

Along with the stats, XVM also shows the player info in different colors, colors that also have become part of the WOT terminology to determine player performance and cast. Red is awful=tomato. Orange is bad=Orange. Yellow is average low=potato. Green is average high=apple. Blue is good=Blue. Purple is unicum=Purple. The intention of the XVM stats and the colors is of course that you get an idea of what kind of players you have on your team and on the enemy team, so that you can prepare for the battle by being able to predict the how the game will unfold, and to know who is next to you and in front of you while in battle. The information you are provided with gives you a view of the player's performance and how many games he/she has played so far. And to underline that and make it visually easier to digest, you get the the colors (red through purple).

 

The Do's:

  • Only use XVM stats if you understand the game well enough to use this information to your advantage
    • The stats are only useful if you can predict gameplay based on the stats
    • In order to predict gameplay, you need to know gameplay yourself
  • Use the XVM stats only if it actually improves your gameplay
    • Compare your win rate before and after 100-500 games with XVM stats  - make a decision to continue to use XVM stats based on facts
  • Apply the knowledge of enemy players' stats wisely
    • Knowing the enemy stat can be valuable in a many-on-one and one-on-one situation before you go in. If the lone enemy player is a purple, you may not want to go in at all and if you are many you still need to show caution and make coordinate attacks instead of individual (giving him/her time to reload between tries)
    • Knowing the stats on the enemy heavies and mediums will enable you to predict where you will be able to make a break-through or where the opposition will likely break-through - this of course relies on you knowing where heavies and mediums go on the map
    • Knowing the stats on the enemy lights will enable you to foresee that you will be spotted if you are not careful and take precaution - this relies on you knowing where lights usually spot
  • Apply the knowledge of the team mates' stats wisely
    • Knowing the stats on the team mates going with you to a specific spot or flank, adjust your gameplay accordingly. Support better players, carry poorer players.
    • Take one for the team to save a purple or a blue, don't do it for a tomato or an orange.
    • If a potato, orange, or a tomato tells you to "Come with me" or give "good" tactical advice/suggestions before the game, please ignore it.
  • Always take the player's number of games into account when you look at the stats and the colors. Win rate and WN8 rarely means anything if the player has less than 5k games under the vest. 

 

The Don'ts:

  • Don't use and rely on XVM stats if you are a new player who doesn't know how to use the information to predict how the game will unfold.
    • If you are incapable or unwilling to put in the effort to prevent a bad scenario from happening, then XVM stats have no use for you
  • Don't use the XVM stats to predict the game outcome. This is counterproductive and you should uninstall XVM stats
  • Don't rely solely on XVM stats to determine a player's skill, it will come to bite you in the behind
    • The stats are averages since the first game the player played. He could have had 10k bad games but is now playing like a God, but his stats will show yellow or green
    • Accounts are sold or switched between people, this is illegal but it does happen, meaning that the Purple can be a [edited]and the Tomato an ace. 
    • Don't assume too much.
  • Don't use XVM stats to belittle or abuse other players. Not to lick the boots of the so called unicum. Treat every player with the same respect and remember all players started off like headless chicken.
  • Keep the XVM stats for yourself, unless someone asks you. Most players have not installed XVM stats because they don't want to know. Respect that!

 

XVM Chance to win:

XVM Chance to win provides a percentage how likely it is that your team will win the game. It's based on an algorithm using the players' stats but exactly how this algorithm is constituted I don't know. It is widely debated how accurate the Chance to win is but it is certainly not so reliable that you should bet your savings on it. XVM allows you to turn on or off the Chance to win individually from the XVM stats and many players have it turned off while XVM stats turned on.

 

The Do's:

  • Look at Chance to win as a potential added spur to make you carry harder

 

The Don'ts:

  • Don't trust the Chance to win, look at it as an indication and a spur.
  • Don't use the Chance to win to decide your gameplay.
  • Don't give up the game because Chance to win is low.
  • Don't tell everybody on the team what Chance to win is, as many have it turned off for a reason.

 

I have myself tried both XVM stats and the Chance to win. Neither worked for me personally. I got stressed with all the colors and having to try to figure out who I was playing with and against. In the end, I uninstalled it and treat all team mates and all enemies with the same respect. It's usually also very telling who are the good players and who are not, I don't need XVM stats to tell me that. And the predictions from Chance to win I find are absolutely useless. But that's me. GL and HF.


Edited by TankFullOfBourbon, Oct 30 2018 - 18:32.


BillDing1 #2 Posted Oct 30 2018 - 12:45

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Tbh pressing tab and looking at clans/ cw badges work about as good as xvm imo.

_Promote_Synergy_ #3 Posted Oct 30 2018 - 12:58

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The best thing you or anyone can do its remove that mod. All it does is discourage people. It should not matter if someone is ranked red, yellow, green, blue, or purple in the XVM scale. Always play as if someone is a purple or from one of the top clans.

 

Also familiarizing yourself with any of the top 25 clans (pretty easy to remember) so that you can figure out what you are up against.



Lesser_Spotted_Panzer #4 Posted Oct 30 2018 - 13:14

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Its good that you are trying to give back to the community, but anyone with xvm who sees a less that 45% chance to win is going to get discouraged no matter how you tell them no to.

 


 

I uninstalled xvm a while ago because it got too depressing to see a poor chance to win game after game. I can also get a good idea of how good or bad my team is within the first 10 seconds, just by how they behave leaving the cap circle, and then where they deploy.



__WarChild__ #5 Posted Oct 30 2018 - 13:25

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XVM makes me feel better about myself.  When I log into the game and see that I am "statistically" the best player on my team, yet the red team has multiple unicums - I don't sweat the loss heading my way.  I used to get upset by it but now I look it as a badge of honor from WG that its matchmaker thinks I'm that good.  



amerikafka #6 Posted Oct 30 2018 - 13:29

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"Never tell me the odds!"

Devil__Anse #7 Posted Oct 30 2018 - 14:21

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#uninstallxvm

moogleslam #8 Posted Oct 30 2018 - 14:42

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View Post_Promote_Synergy_, on Oct 30 2018 - 07:58, said:

The best thing you or anyone can do its remove that mod. All it does is discourage people. It should not matter if someone is ranked red, yellow, green, blue, or purple in the XVM scale. Always play as if someone is a purple or from one of the top clans.

 

Also familiarizing yourself with any of the top 25 clans (pretty easy to remember) so that you can figure out what you are up against.

 

I always love your posts, but I have to question this one.  Your two paragraphs feel like a contradiction.  First it seems you're saying it doesn't matter if someone is good or bad because you should play against everyone the same way, then it seems you're saying use tags to figure out who is good, and act accordingly.

GeorgePreddy #9 Posted Oct 30 2018 - 14:44

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Great post, Bourbon;

 

Plus 1.

 

XVM is a tool, nothing more or less.  I like XVM and I use it, including the win chance. When I get a 20% win chance battle, I don't suffer discouragement... I simply formulate my battle strat using that additional information.

 

Saying XVM is bad is like saying guns are bad, when it's actually the person who misuses the gun that is bad. A gun is simply a tool.

 

Use XVM and guns wisely and they can be a great help.

 

 

 

 

 



__WarChild__ #10 Posted Oct 30 2018 - 14:46

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View PostGeorgePreddy, on Oct 30 2018 - 07:44, said:

Great post, Bourbon;

 

Plus 1.

 

XVM is a tool, nothing more or less.  I like XVM and I use it, including the win chance. When I get a 20% win chance battle, I don't suffer discouragement... I simply formulate my battle strat using that additional information.

 

Saying XVM is bad is like saying guns are bad, when it's actually the person whom misuses the gun that is bad. A gun is simply a tool.

 

Use XVM and guns wisely and they can be a great help.

 

 

+1 from me on that!



_Promote_Synergy_ #11 Posted Oct 30 2018 - 14:59

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View Postmoogleslam, on Oct 30 2018 - 13:42, said:

 

I always love your posts, but I have to question this one.  Your two paragraphs feel like a contradiction.  First it seems you're saying it doesn't matter if someone is good or bad because you should play against everyone the same way, then it seems you're saying use tags to figure out who is good, and act accordingly.

 

It is a catch 22. You can recognize names/clans and you get a feel for who you can be up against which you know are good. But people should still play each other as if they are good.

 

I only recommend this because, for example, if I see another top clan member on the enemy team I can expect to see them in more advantageous positions that people usually will not go to. I just use it as a bit of info on what to expect in the match and play accordingly. 



Almighty_Johnson #12 Posted Oct 30 2018 - 15:01

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View Postmoogleslam, on Oct 30 2018 - 08:42, said:

 

I always love your posts, but I have to question this one.  Your two paragraphs feel like a contradiction.  First it seems you're saying it doesn't matter if someone is good or bad because you should play against everyone the same way, then it seems you're saying use tags to figure out who is good, and act accordingly.

 

I get what he's saying.  I have XVM but ignore it for most things except threat assessment in pre-game loading screens.  I've seen too many battles where a bunch of tomatoes absolutely gob-smack an opposing team that should have ROFL-Stomped them.

That said, I tend to take everyone serious, regardless of their color, until they prove they are an idiot.  But I also look for other cues.  A platoon from Mahau is way scarier than a platoon from some no-name clan.  So he's right in both points.  Treat all enemies like they're a threat till they prove otherwise, but also watch out for top clans, because those guys "Tend" to be dangerous regardless.  

 



Dockmaster #13 Posted Oct 30 2018 - 15:08

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XVM is toxic to the game.

 

Just play like EVERYONE is better than you and do your best.



Seth_VonLiopod #14 Posted Oct 30 2018 - 15:42

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Many of the garage features of XVM are pretty great.
Automatically moving crew and freely movable equipment is one of my favorites.

Karmadharma #15 Posted Oct 30 2018 - 15:55

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I mostly use it to gauge my own progress. I finally went from "tomato" to "orange" this week and that was very rewarding. While it is sometimes interesting to see how many different skilled players are on either side, it does not really affect my game play since I find even yellow and green players sometimes making goofs and/or getting killed off early.

cloudwalkr #16 Posted Oct 30 2018 - 15:58

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View PostBillDing1, on Oct 30 2018 - 12:45, said:

Tbh pressing tab and looking at clans/ cw badges work about as good as xvm imo.

 

Besides the Clan Tags....this is exactly why I never turned on any of those badges.  They seem to me to be just another target on someones back.

 

Pretty solid read, OP.  My only change would be to advise to never run %CTW  (chance to win) as it influences people even if they don't think it does.  It creates a negative mindset when someone sees a low chance - which leads to badgering lower rated players usually from some because those lower rated players are the reason the chance is so low.  It also creates an artificial "safety net" where teams see high chance to win and don't play like they normally would.

 

I would love to see some sort of data reflecting on how many games have been altered due to chance to win.  It's impossible to see this stat, but it would be interesting if it were possible.

 

Bottom line, turn off %chance to win regardless.



dunniteowl #17 Posted Oct 30 2018 - 15:59

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+1 OP, Wing Up on this concept of 'giving back' to the Community!

 

That said, I feel that the additional 'information' that XVM is often used to provide is actually two things:

 

1) On the first hand, it is information in the 'cockpit' that you couldn't possibly glean just from playing the game against those people.  In this light, I see it as 'unfair information' as it violates the 'spirit' of the game's intent to play against other teams 'as if' you were battling it out on that field we get to virtually play upon as espoused by WG itself.  While there are a LOT of useful things XVM (btw, it's 'eXtended Visualization Mod' for sake of clarity) can provide, I feel that the Stats position should NOT be allowed or used in game.


Of course, this is my own interesting point of view.  I tend towards idealism, so take that for what it's worth in that light.

 

2) On the second hand, as you mention, it can be quite a lot of information.  For folks not able to even fully 'grok' the game mechanics or who do not have a solid grasp of game play in general (map knowledge, use of the mini-map, tactical positioning, etc. and other such non XVM related knowledge) it then becomes Information Overload.  This means that, in addition to the player having to figure out how to armor angle, get hull down, how to avoid arty shells and those sorts of things, they are now being FLOODED with tons of color coded information that, quite honestly, make it harder for them to even learn the game -- because now they have all this other stuff intruding upon their attention.

 

As Private William Cage (Tom Cruise) in "Edge of Tomorrow" comments on why he didn't wear his helmet to "Griff" when asked, "Where's your helmet?" as he's being fitted into his Nu-Jack responds, "I never wear it.  It's a distraction," is how I feel about XVM's use of stats in game.  This is especially so for newer players and players who simply should be paying more attention to learning how to play better.

 

Those players using XVM, thinking that knowing all this extra information will help them be better players now begin to become disillusioned by it.  They are the ones who come here to the forums or in chat, to complain about their chances, MM being Rigged, stacked teams, being 'given' bad teams, etc. and this sort of extra 'stressor' is actually Quite Bad™ for them and, by extension, for their teams and for their fun.

 

 

My own view is that playing "vanilla" should be something to strive for as a player before you ever load the stats-based portions of XVM onto your HUD.

 

It is a known fact that, in what are known as High 'Clutter' Environments (this is a phrase used in military discussions regarding Situational Awareness) that too much information actually reduces combat effectiveness of soldiers engaged in combat.  Again, that sort of discussion is relevant to ANY High Clutter Environment, whether in real time Real Life Environments (disaster situations, catastrophic moments, emergency scenes, etc) or real time Online Virtual Environments where action must be taken nearly instantly in a constantly changing 'fluid' situation.  This game 'environment' is about as 'cluttered' as it gets.

 

In this sort of situation, the most relevant and important pieces of information are essential to improved performance by those that can use that information to make them more effective in their decision making choices.  In this game, where many are still honestly just doing their best to figure out what the heck is really going on across the entire 'environment' (if they ever get that far, mentally), such additional information serves to reduce their effectiveness, due to having to attempt to incorporate it into their game play in a useful and effective manner.

 

For players who are simply struggling to play above average, this additional information serves to distract them from playing their best with what amounts to Non-Relevant Data.

 

 

Again, this is my own interesting point of view on the matter.  Personally, with my potato laptop, wireless connection with lags and packet loss on bad weather days, I have ENOUGH 'environmental clutter' to choke an elephant on the best of days.  Therefore, anything else that serves to distract me from actually focusing on my targets, pay attention to the mini-map, remembering my hull angle, be aware of my team's deployment, the opposition's oncoming apparent deployment, figuring out where 'missing' opposition units (unspotted units to total the team composition left) might be and how to exploit that for my team's best advantage -- or to keep me playing a moment or two longer -- is just what Private Cage calls his helmet: a Distraction.

 

Good Job with this post.  I hope that this may spark more -- and more intelligent -- discussion on when and (as importantly) when NOT to use the stats-based portion of XVM.

 

 

OvO

 

 

GL, HF & HSYBF!



Mojo_Riesing #18 Posted Oct 30 2018 - 16:01

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A very thoughtful and useful post! 

cloudwalkr #19 Posted Oct 30 2018 - 16:03

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View PostGeorgePreddy, on Oct 30 2018 - 14:44, said:

Great post, Bourbon;

 

Plus 1.

 

XVM is a tool, nothing more or less.  I like XVM and I use it, including the win chance. When I get a 20% win chance battle, I don't suffer discouragement... I simply formulate my battle strat using that additional information.

 

Saying XVM is bad is like saying guns are bad, when it's actually the person who misuses the gun that is bad. A gun is simply a tool.

 

Use XVM and guns wisely and they can be a great help.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Using your gun analogy...You must be a certain age before you can buy a gun and hopefully show a mental stability to understand how to use the gun.  There are no such requirements for XVM and as such more people than not misuse the information - making it toxic as a whole to the player base.  

 

That's awesome that you are intelligent enough to use that info.   Most aren't and let their emotions get the better of them.  This is my main reason for wanting it gone.  If we decided as a whole that a "tool" is more detrimental to a group than useful, even though some have shown they know how to use that tool...then the tool shouldn't be used.  This is a basic premise and I'm sure you can argue it...but I'm also sure you understand what I'm getting at.



Bad_Oedipus #20 Posted Oct 30 2018 - 16:17

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View Post_Promote_Synergy_, on Oct 30 2018 - 06:58, said:

The best thing you or anyone can do its remove that mod. All it does is discourage people. It should not matter if someone is ranked red, yellow, green, blue, or purple in the XVM scale. Always play as if someone is a purple or from one of the top clans.

 

Also familiarizing yourself with any of the top 25 clans (pretty easy to remember) so that you can figure out what you are up against.

 

Say you are peek a booming with an IS7 (or similar tank) against a equivalent tank.  Sure, you need to treat the opponent as if he was skilled.  Say he has an auto loader behind him and you have E 100 backing you up.  Would you play differently if your E100 player had Win8 of 800 or 1400?  I would, odds are that Win8 800 player will pull right behind you allowing the red batchat clipping your tank... remember he's skilled :)

 

Then again, those things probably don't happen to you as you avoid those situations instinctively.






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