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Can we do match making based on players skill?


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TankKing187 #1 Posted Nov 08 2018 - 18:22

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i getting many one side battle sometime i win like 15-2 but sometimes lose 15-3 etc. 

 

is this so call balance MM for WOT? because it is so imbalanced imo.

 

i dont mind having tomato fights, it is already hard for new players to deal with +2 tier tanks in current 3/5/7 MM. 

 

what if our top tier 3 tanks are very good vs average on other side?

 

right now 3/5/7 just make new players have no choice but rush to higher tiers. 

 

plz dont ask us to stay in lower tiers WoT selling tier 8 tanks regardless of their skills so it is part of game.

 

also i have better win rates and more fun in top tier battle. there are so many tier 8 tanks due to fact that in 3/5/7 those 7s are tier 8

 

i dont know why i am getting more 3/5/7 as bottom why dont we just fight tier 8 tanks fights?

 

 


Edited by TankKing187, Nov 08 2018 - 18:29.


Crypticshock #2 Posted Nov 08 2018 - 18:24

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15-2 and 15-3 will still happen in skill based mm. Sorry, it's just the way it is with the style of battles.

Nunya_000 #3 Posted Nov 08 2018 - 18:25

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View PostCrypticshock, on Nov 08 2018 - 09:24, said:

15-2 and 15-3 will still happen in skill based mm. Sorry, it's just the way it is with the style of battles.

 

^^This^^

TankKing187 #4 Posted Nov 08 2018 - 18:33

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atleast have it balanced as plyers' skill it wont happen as many times as it is...

 

 



spud_tuber #5 Posted Nov 08 2018 - 18:34

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Any form of skill based MM is highly unlikely for random battles.  WG has expressed several times that they intend to leave the MM they use for Random Battles skill blind.

However, there are several modes that do offer various degrees of skill matching.  Ranked Battles, which so far have only occasionally been available at Tier 10, use a form of Skill Bracket MM.  At least one of the organized modes also uses some form of skill based MM, though I don't know the details.

While we're on the subject of blowouts in random battles, I want to share my personal experience on the subject. I used to hate blowouts whether my team won or lost.  Then, one day, I realized I no longer hated winning blowouts.   What had happened was,  over time, I'd learned how to create those blowouts, and was enjoying the challenge of doing so.  My advice for anyone who doesn't enjoy being on the winning side of a blowout is to go out and seize your fun, don't wait on it to come to you.   Learn to create those local overmatches that lead to blowouts.

MacDaddyMatty #6 Posted Nov 08 2018 - 18:36

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“Everyone gets the same crap teams...

What separates good players from bad ones is how you deal with it.“ - Spartan_Striker

 

 

 

You proposal will not do anything to "better"  the game.

If fact, your proposal punishes those that play well, and rewards those that play poorly.


 

When I was a tomato, I also wanted SBMM.

After I learned how to play the game (detection, shot deflection, overmatch, crews, components, shell velocity, etc, etc, etc), I became orange, yellow, and now green.

What I know now includes reading and "playing" my team

The same as reading and "playing" the Mini Map.

The same as reading and "playing" the tank you are using vs the tank they are using.

The same as reading and "playing" the terrain.

The same as reading and "playing" the MM.

This is a HUGE part of the game.


 

The game is SO VERY DEEP with the many aspects of strategy.

Turning chess into checkers is SBMM, and is not what is good for the game of the players.



_Tsavo_ #7 Posted Nov 08 2018 - 18:36

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I'm generally against it in a 15 v 15 environment.  The biggest reason we get blowouts is there's no respawn and you can't regenerate health.  Being down 2-3 tanks due to early mistakes can lead to an unstoppable landslide.

 

Basically, as I see it, we all get the same treatment and it's up to us individually to make the difference.  That is, we all get the same sandbox to play in.  SBMM would not treat everyone equally so I don't see that as fair.



KeepYourselfSafe_xD #8 Posted Nov 08 2018 - 18:37

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Server is too small anyways

BabA_YA6A #9 Posted Nov 08 2018 - 18:38

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View PostTankKing187, on Nov 09 2018 - 01:22, said:

i getting many one side battle sometime i win like 15-2 but sometimes lose 15-3 etc. 

 

is this so call balance MM for WOT? because it is so imbalanced imo.

 

i dont mind having tomato fights, it is already hard for new players to deal with +2 tier tanks in current 3/5/7 MM. 

 

what if our top tier 3 tanks are very good vs average on other side?

 

right now 3/5/7 just make new players have no choice but rush to higher tiers. 

 

plz dont ask us to stay in lower tiers WoT selling tier 8 tanks regardless of their skills so it is part of game.

 

also i have better win rates and more fun in top tier battle. there are so many tier 8 tanks due to fact that in 3/5/7 those 7s are tier 8

 

i dont know why i am getting more 3/5/7 as bottom why dont we just fight tier 8 tanks fights?

 

 

 

How about "HELL NO"!!!

Pick up the pace and carry (at least your sorry butt).



fred_632 #10 Posted Nov 08 2018 - 18:38

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I had teams where there were 5 or 6 unicums and the enemy team a bunch of tomatoes and orange players, The purple players all died first. And we still lost 15-1 or 15-3, it doesn't mean because someones a purple he is good and a tomato is bad. Some purple players reach purple because they seal club lower tiers and when they play tier 10s they suck at the game. A better MM won't change how people play, it doesn't work like that

Edited by fred_632, Nov 08 2018 - 18:40.


spud_tuber #11 Posted Nov 08 2018 - 18:39

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View PostTankKing187, on Nov 08 2018 - 11:33, said:

atleast have it balanced as plyers' skill it wont happen as many times as it is...

 

 

Based on available data, the difference would be slightly.   Only about 10-20% of battles are so skill imbalanced that they experience a higher blowout rate, and then only somewhat more than battles near the middle of the skill balance.  In the end, we're talking maybe a 2-5% reduction in blowouts.  Not worth all the other baggage that comes with skill balanced MM.



YANKEE137 #12 Posted Nov 08 2018 - 18:39

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I posted this on another thread but it seems relevant here: 

I avoid playing tier nine and ten (outside of Clan battles) because I don't play very well.  I understand how a T10 guy can be upset to have a tomato playing at his level. For that reason I usually cap my pubs at tier 8.

However

Ever since 3-5-7 came in I am forced into tier nine and ten battles 80% of the time. So not only am I a tomato playing with and against  T10 players, I am a bottom tier tomato. Double handicapped. So not playing those T10 pubs is probably a pointless gesture?  



BabA_YA6A #13 Posted Nov 08 2018 - 18:40

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View PostMacDaddyMatty, on Nov 09 2018 - 01:36, said:

“Everyone gets the same crap teams...

What separates good players from bad ones is how you deal with it.“ - Spartan_Striker

 

 

 

You proposal will not do anything to "better"  the game.

If fact, your proposal punishes those that play well, and rewards those that play poorly.


 

When I was a tomato, I also wanted SBMM.

After I learned how to play the game (detection, shot deflection, overmatch, crews, components, shell velocity, etc, etc, etc), I became orange, yellow, and now green.

What I know now includes reading and "playing" my team

The same as reading and "playing" the Mini Map.

The same as reading and "playing" the tank you are using vs the tank they are using.

The same as reading and "playing" the terrain.

The same as reading and "playing" the MM.

This is a HUGE part of the game.


 

The game is SO VERY DEEP with the many aspects of strategy.

Turning chess into checkers is SBMM, and is not what is good for the game of the players.

 

+1 Smile_blinky.gif

BabA_YA6A #14 Posted Nov 08 2018 - 18:43

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View Postfred_632, on Nov 09 2018 - 01:38, said:

I had teams where there were 5 or 6 unicums and the enemy team a bunch of tomatoes and orange players, The purple players all died first. And we still lost 15-1 or 15-3, it doesn't mean because someones a purple he is good and a tomato is bad. Some purple players reach purple because they seal club lower tiers and when they play tier 10s they suck at the game. A better MM won't change how people play, it doesn't work like that

How would you even know?

Speaking for many of my game friends and including myself we mostly play tier VII and up to avoid dealing with all the scrubs that are on the game now!



TankKing187 #15 Posted Nov 08 2018 - 18:43

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server is too small but i can see so many tier8 just going as bottom tiers in 3/5/7 

 

i dont know why are we not getting all 8 tier battle as many as 3/5/7 seem like should be more of tier 8 battle since there are more tier 8 than 9~10 tiers



KingofDragons #16 Posted Nov 08 2018 - 18:45

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I'm 100% for skill balancing...It really can not hurt the game by balancing teams.. I'm against top Tier  always being skilled players.. This would mean lower skill players would never be top Tier..

 

MM does a crappy job of matching vehicles in the first place... You can have an T67 vs an AT2 because MM does not know the difference..  Go to Tanks.gg press any Tier and type and see the total difference in vehicles that face each other on a daily base..



Crypticshock #17 Posted Nov 08 2018 - 18:52

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View PostTankKing187, on Nov 08 2018 - 10:43, said:

server is too small but i can see so many tier8 just going as bottom tiers in 3/5/7 

 

i dont know why are we not getting all 8 tier battle as many as 3/5/7 seem like should be more of tier 8 battle since there are more tier 8 than 9~10 tiers

 

It is because of the system. The system looks for 3/5/7 first. There is a lot of tier 10's in queue. For tier 8's to get 3/5/7 they need 14 tier 6 to be in the queue. There isn't a lot of tier 6 in the queue. So 6 tier 8's suck the 14 tier 6 in a game, then a bunch of 8's are waiting for 14 more tier 6... There is an abundance of tier 10 and 9's in the queue snagging those tier 8's up before the system can find 14 more tier 6's AND before the MM's threshold to start making 15v15 games. 15v15 tier 8's does happen from time to time, there was a fair amount after the Pref MM buff patch.

 

3/5/7 should be the last template in the match maker. Start with 5/10. That way you keep your +/-2 but it just happens less, a lot less. Then the 3 player platoons won't be queuing with hopes of being that top tier platoon; because 3/5/7 is rare anyway. So platoons wouldn't feel like a punishment if you platoon outside of tier 9/10.



Devil__Anse #18 Posted Nov 08 2018 - 18:58

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it's amazing to me how many times the skill gets stacked in a "random" MM anyways

_1204_ #19 Posted Nov 08 2018 - 18:59

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I'm kinda against it. Instead I would prefer the rewards be less defendant on winning/losing, and I stead be based on how you perform

Edited by _1204_, Nov 08 2018 - 19:00.


fred_632 #20 Posted Nov 08 2018 - 19:09

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View PostKingofDragons, on Nov 08 2018 - 17:45, said:

I'm 100% for skill balancing...It really can not hurt the game by balancing teams.. I'm against top Tier  always being skilled players.. This would mean lower skill players would never be top Tier..

 

MM does a crappy job of matching vehicles in the first place... You can have an T67 vs an AT2 because MM does not know the difference..  Go to Tanks.gg press any Tier and type and see the total difference in vehicles that face each other on a daily base..

 

Yeah MM does suck at matching vehicles, The MM now just grabs random vehicles of the same tier and adds them to battle. Like a Maus against a T57 Heavy or a Badger against a grille 15, it just doesn't make sense to me at all. By The time a T57 reloads the Maus took away 40-60% of it's HP maybe even more, And Grille will never really pen a Badger from the front when it's hull down so the Badger will kill it quickly. I think that's why people freak out about MM.

 

If MM wants to match 5 heavies against 5 heavies and 4 TD's against 4 TD's and 4 med's against 4 meds and so on....you're screwed...to MM it doesn't matter what it is as long as it says Heavy, medium or TD you'll get matched against a Heavy, meadium or TD


Edited by fred_632, Nov 08 2018 - 19:13.





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