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Apple phasing out 32-bit operating systems, moving towards 64-bit


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black_colt #21 Posted Nov 25 2018 - 21:14

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View PostGeorgePreddy, on Nov 25 2018 - 11:20, said:

 

It's OK for you to be in denial... I get that, enjoy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your statements must be unsupportable due to your silence - I get that - enjoy.

 



black_colt #22 Posted Nov 25 2018 - 22:00

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View PostSwollenOstrich, on Nov 24 2018 - 08:03, said:

Always nice to see Apple join the rest of the 2006 world.

 

If they could have figured out how to charge idiots $40 more for a power cord for 64-bit systems, the change would have happened years ago.

 

Actually macOS was 64-bit back in 2005 when on an x86-64 processor.

 

The reason that World of Tank Mac Wrapper is 32-bit is due to Wargaming NOT RELEASING the proposed 64-bit version of the World Of Tanks Mac Wrapper - not the fault of macOS.

 



black_colt #23 Posted Nov 26 2018 - 00:43

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View PostR1S100, on Nov 24 2018 - 08:05, said:

Well yeah but I need to know about what is to come. Not about Windows or what Apple should've done.

 

Concerned that WoT won't work anymore.

 

You do not need to worry about this in the short term - macOS 10.14 supports 32-bit apps.  32-bit apps will be unsupported in the next version of macOS which will not be out for a bit.

 

CodeWeavers already has a solution but Wargaming has not approved it for release [64-bit Wine].  IIRC the 64-bit World of Tanks Mac Wrapper fixes a memory leak as well.

 

Wargaming is in a difficult position - World of Tanks is a 32-bit app [so 2006] and relies on WoW64 to run on 64-bit MS Windows.  If they rewrite to 64-bit then anyone using 32-bit MS Window will be unable to play the game.  So I suspect that Wargaming will keep the 32-bit app until MS Windows forces a change. WoW64 adds additional overhead and complexity just to run a 32-bit app.

 



R1S100 #24 Posted Nov 26 2018 - 03:09

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View Postblack_colt, on Nov 26 2018 - 00:43, said:

 

You do not need to worry about this in the short term - macOS 10.14 supports 32-bit apps.  32-bit apps will be unsupported in the next version of macOS which will not be out for a bit.

 

CodeWeavers already has a solution but Wargaming has not approved it for release [64-bit Wine].  IIRC the 64-bit World of Tanks Mac Wrapper fixes a memory leak as well.

 

Wargaming is in a difficult position - World of Tanks is a 32-bit app [so 2006] and relies on WoW64 to run on 64-bit MS Windows.  If they rewrite to 64-bit then anyone using 32-bit MS Window will be unable to play the game.  So I suspect that Wargaming will keep the 32-bit app until MS Windows forces a change. WoW64 adds additional overhead and complexity just to run a 32-bit app.

 

 

Hey I remember you - I appreciate your help as always black_colt! You seem to know a lot about this, I appreciate you taking the time to help me learn about this.

 

Appreciative to everyone else who posted what they know. That's interesting that all I need to do is stay with Mojave and not update to maintain WoT compatibility. Will keep that in mind when they release this 64-bit transfer nonsense.

 

Thanks again,

 

R1S100

 

 



GeorgePreddy #25 Posted Nov 26 2018 - 04:24

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View Postblack_colt, on Nov 25 2018 - 17:14, said:

 

Your statements must be unsupportable due to your silence - I get that - enjoy.

 

 

No... you enjoy !

 

Also... my statement is prima facie and bona fide, therefore it requires no "support".     :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



black_colt #26 Posted Nov 27 2018 - 19:26

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View PostGeorgePreddy, on Nov 25 2018 - 19:24, said:

 

No... you enjoy !

 

Also... my statement is prima facie and bona fide, therefore it requires no "support".     :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You did not provide any information - therefore you cannot claim your statement to be bona fide 

 

Since you are claiming prima facie - please provide your evidence so that it can be refuted/not refuted.

 



SwollenOstrich #27 Posted Nov 27 2018 - 23:09

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View Postblack_colt, on Nov 25 2018 - 15:00, said:

 

Actually macOS was 64-bit back in 2005 when on an x86-64 processor.

 

The reason that World of Tank Mac Wrapper is 32-bit is due to Wargaming NOT RELEASING the proposed 64-bit version of the World Of Tanks Mac Wrapper - not the fault of macOS.

 

And yet they are just now moving to 64-bit. In 2019. :sceptic:

 

I never said anything about the WoT wrapper. Don't care.



Str8tShooter #28 Posted Jun 29 2019 - 00:17

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I keep asking Technical support to provide a plan forward for a 64 native WOT client for the Mac (not likely) OR provide the testing and approval plan for the CodeWeaver 64 bit wrapper (which WOT has had for quite a while).  I am required to stay current with OSX operating system releases... so staying on Sierra or High Sierra is not an option.  I have posted this question to WOT and all I get as an answer is "an apology to the error occur"  (wthWOT...  It is a future issue!!!  Can they read?) or I get a "scripted" non-answer stating that they do not support Mac OS/x (which is not really true since they worked with CodeWeavers to release the 32 bit wrapper).  There is a lot of denial and misdirection going on within WOT.  I'll bet they wake up and take notice when their revenue streams diminish!!

 

I ASK ALL MAC OSX USER TO OPEN TICKETS WITH TECHNICAL SUPPORT ON THIS ISSUE.  ONE WAY TO FORCE THEIR ATTENTION AND AN ANSWER IS TO REPEATEDLY FLOOD THEIR SUPPORT QUEUES WITH THE SAME QUESTIONS UNTIL THEY EFFECTIVELY ANSWER THE QUESTION WITH ONE OF THE THREE OPTIONS.  WOT TS will try to dismiss and close the tickets.  We need to continually reopen tickets and repost our progress here until it is resolved.

 

Create tickets under "Technical Issues", Game Interface 

 

SAMPLE TEXT:

Mac OS/x Catalina releases in the Fall of 2019. Please provide a plan from WOT to either support a native 64 bit WOT client on Macs OR for WOT to provide a plan to support the Code Weaver 64 bit Wrapper that was submitted to WOT over a year ago to address the issue. The 32-bit wrapper is acknowledged, available from the WOT website and quasi-supported. This issue could be resolved by WOT announcing support for the 64-bit Wrapper ... or a native 64-bit WOT client....OR, worst case, WOT intends to "end-of-life" support for the MAC player community once Catalina is released. a stupid, but possible outcome. These are the only three options that can close this ticket.

 

Please responsibly draft a reply to address this issue definitively, with authority, and most importantly, with dates!

 

PS:  You will need to create a dummy WGCHECK.txt file and rename the file to WGCheck.Tz to bypass their dump file requirement which is not needed for this issue



black_colt #29 Posted Jun 29 2019 - 19:29

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View PostSwollenOstrich, on Nov 27 2018 - 14:09, said:

And yet they are just now moving to 64-bit. In 2019. :sceptic:

 

I never said anything about the WoT wrapper. Don't care.

 

You do not seem to understand - Apple is moving EXCLUSIVELY to 64-bit this year - no more support for 32-bit apps.

 

Microsoft is still kludging the use of 32-bit apps on 64-bit MS Windows with WOW64 which means they have to build, troubleshoot, maintain and update 32-bit libraries.  So by your reasoning they have also not moved to 64-bit in 2019 as well.

 

Moving to 64-bit only Apple gains some significant advantages:

 

So they do not need to build, troubleshoot, maintain, and update 32-bit libraries on a single OS.  iOS, iPadOS, and tvOS do not support 32-bits apps at all - all apps are 64-bit.  macOS, iOS, iPadOS, and tvOS all use the 64-bit XNU kernel. 

 

Now Apple can update the kernel and pass those enhancements/updates across all of their OSs quickly and easily.  Some of the low-level APIs and any enhancements can now be shared as well - e.g. Metal

 

This also lowers the hurdle of putting the Metal APIs on GPUs by AMD as there will be one ONE API and they do not need to support both a 32-bit and 64-bit version of the API.  Having Metal APIs on AMD GPUs also makes AMD more attractive for Apple as well since they would not need to write additional code.

 

 

 


Edited by black_colt, Jun 29 2019 - 22:29.


black_colt #30 Posted Jun 29 2019 - 19:59

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View PostStr8tShooter, on Jun 28 2019 - 15:17, said:

I keep asking Technical support to provide a plan forward for a 64 native WOT client for the Mac (not likely) OR provide the testing and approval plan for the CodeWeaver 64 bit wrapper (which WOT has had for quite a while).  I am required to stay current with OSX operating system releases... so staying on Sierra or High Sierra is not an option.  I have posted this question to WOT and all I get as an answer is "an apology to the error occur"  (wthWOT...  It is a future issue!!!  Can they read?) or I get a "scripted" non-answer stating that they do not support Mac OS/x (which is not really true since they worked with CodeWeavers to release the 32 bit wrapper).  There is a lot of denial and misdirection going on within WOT.  I'll bet they wake up and take notice when their revenue streams diminish!!

 

I ASK ALL MAC OSX USER TO OPEN TICKETS WITH TECHNICAL SUPPORT ON THIS ISSUE.  ONE WAY TO FORCE THEIR ATTENTION AND AN ANSWER IS TO REPEATEDLY FLOOD THEIR SUPPORT QUEUES WITH THE SAME QUESTIONS UNTIL THEY EFFECTIVELY ANSWER THE QUESTION WITH ONE OF THE THREE OPTIONS.  WOT TS will try to dismiss and close the tickets.  We need to continually reopen tickets and repost our progress here until it is resolved.

 

Create tickets under "Technical Issues", Game Interface 

 

SAMPLE TEXT:

Mac OS/x Catalina releases in the Fall of 2019. Please provide a plan from WOT to either support a native 64 bit WOT client on Macs OR for WOT to provide a plan to support the Code Weaver 64 bit Wrapper that was submitted to WOT over a year ago to address the issue. The 32-bit wrapper is acknowledged, available from the WOT website and quasi-supported. This issue could be resolved by WOT announcing support for the 64-bit Wrapper ... or a native 64-bit WOT client....OR, worst case, WOT intends to "end-of-life" support for the MAC player community once Catalina is released. a stupid, but possible outcome. These are the only three options that can close this ticket.

 

Please responsibly draft a reply to address this issue definitively, with authority, and most importantly, with dates!

 

PS:  You will need to create a dummy WGCHECK.txt file and rename the file to WGCheck.Tz to bypass their dump file requirement which is not needed for this issue

 

While this is a great suggestion … Wargaming has made it clear that they do not support the WoT Mac Wrapper directly and this may have the unintentional effect of making WG to ignore all of the Support Tickets.   Also we do not want to misrepresent ourselves to Support by providing false data.  The creditability of our concerns will be zero and individuals might be sanctioned for raising and then providing knowingly false Support Tickets and data.

 

That said - are you aware that CodeWeavers has enabled the HD Client of World of Tanks in the WoT Game Center Wrapper?

 

Why Is That Single Event Important?

 

Getting the HD Client up and running is significant and suggests that CodeWeavers has found a path to get the game up-and-running in a 64-bit only environment.

 

As I cannot easily determine what bottle they are using I cannot understand what they did differently.  The current stand-alone WoT Mac Wrapper uses a 32-bit MS Windows XP bottle and a 32-bit version of Wine [1.5.4] and does not allow the use of the HD Client.

 

Linux users running 64-bit distributions are reporting great success when building with Wine 4.0 and 64-bit MS Windows bottles [MS Windows 7 and 10].  The Lutris gaming client for Linux is up and running on 64-bit Linux as well to great success.

 

Why Is The Above About Linux Important?

 

CodeWeavers sponsors and contributes significant source code to the Wine Team. Alexandre Julliard, CTO at CodeWeavers, was one of the first developers of Wine and in 1994 he assumed responsibility for maintaining and has led the project ever since.  He has been working on Wine full-time since 1999.

 

The Wine Team has been working on DVXK - a Vulkan-based translation [compatibility] layer for Direct3D 10/11 which allows 3D applications to run on POSIX-compliant OSs [macOS is POSIX compliant] using Wine. As macOS does not currently run Vulkan natively that is probably presenting another issue for a small team. 

 

IIRC there was an effort to write a layer that then takes DVXK and use Metal calls [APIs]. This would allow GPUs in Apple-branded hardware to take advantage of low-level native calls which should allow for more graphics performance.

 

This bodes well for macOS users …

 

Suggestion

 

I think our effort is better served politely asking CodeWeavers for any updates through Expert Support on their website.

 

CodeWeavers is a small company and I suspect that it is easy for them to get stretched thin … so when corresponding with them please keep that in mind and the fact that they have always found a way to keep the WoT Mac Wrapper running for us macOS users.

 

 


Edited by black_colt, Jun 29 2019 - 22:26.


Str8tShooter #31 Posted Jun 30 2019 - 04:49

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Black_Colt,

 

Thank you for the detailed response and your suggestions.  I, like many others, I'm sure, would just like a simple and straight forward answer on this topic instead of the multitude of non-answers and cut&paste responses.   A technical release roadmap... an update on the collaborative efforts / cooperation between CodeWeavers and WOT.. FROM EITHER OF THEM would go a long way to reassuring this community that there is a path forward. It is realistic, and can be expected to be released by <date>.  Then we can ease up and know that the issue is being worked on... and more importantly the WOT is listening to the needs of their player community.  At the moment, it appears that the Mac OSx players/platform are perceived as just a nuisance. 

 

Str8t



black_colt #32 Posted Jul 01 2019 - 02:25

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View PostStr8tShooter, on Jun 29 2019 - 19:49, said:

Black_Colt,

 

Thank you for the detailed response and your suggestions.  I, like many others, I'm sure, would just like a simple and straight forward answer on this topic instead of the multitude of non-answers and cut&paste responses.   A technical release roadmap... an update on the collaborative efforts / cooperation between CodeWeavers and WOT.. FROM EITHER OF THEM would go a long way to reassuring this community that there is a path forward. It is realistic, and can be expected to be released by <date>.  Then we can ease up and know that the issue is being worked on... and more importantly the WOT is listening to the needs of their player community.  At the moment, it appears that the Mac OSx players/platform are perceived as just a nuisance. 

 

Str8t

 

Welcome ... however I do not agree with your comments.

 

Why?

 

Unfortunately macOS Catalina in a work-in-progress and what is accurate one day may not be accurate the next in another build.  A build might introduce an issue that was not present before, break a previous feature in an earlier build. So a simple straight forward answer is an unrealistic expectation.

 

Remember the WoT Mac Wrapper is subject to changes from two sides - Wargaming with changes to the game and Apple with changes in each build.  Talk about a rock and a hard place ...  I would rather CodeWeavers focus on the code and not writing articles just to give us an update as macOS Catalina has not reached Gold Master.

 

Based on what I have seen with the WoT Game Center Wrapper I suspect that CodeWeavers has found a good path to go down.

 

Lets be realistic - the game was not written for macOS.  The fact that we get to run it on macOS is fantastic in itself.  I have been running the WoT Mac Wrapper since day-one.  With a few exceptions CodeWeavers has always had a solution on-time.  The last issue was related to an obscure bug in Wine that showed itself under certain network setups and was quickly corrected once it was identified.

 

Not sure I would consider macOS to be a nuisance as Wargaming took the time and spent the money to have CodeWeavers produce a way to run the game on macOS. The macOS Community must provide something to Wargaming - not sure but we should not overlook this.

 

It is hard to hear [be patient] but we, the macOS Community, must be patient at this time. 

 


Edited by black_colt, Jul 01 2019 - 02:37.


Crazy_Crusher #33 Posted Aug 12 2019 - 01:56

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MAC = Simpler, more reliable, and lasts longer for the price

Windows = Far more powerful for the price

 

Free market ensures that both are correctly priced.

 

I have both and love both.



black_colt #34 Posted Oct 08 2019 - 23:48

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View PostStr8tShooter, on Jun 29 2019 - 19:49, said:

Black_Colt,

 

Thank you for the detailed response and your suggestions.  I, like many others, I'm sure, would just like a simple and straight forward answer on this topic instead of the multitude of non-answers and cut&paste responses.   A technical release roadmap... an update on the collaborative efforts / cooperation between CodeWeavers and WOT.. FROM EITHER OF THEM would go a long way to reassuring this community that there is a path forward. It is realistic, and can be expected to be released by <date>.  Then we can ease up and know that the issue is being worked on... and more importantly the WOT is listening to the needs of their player community.  At the moment, it appears that the Mac OSx players/platform are perceived as just a nuisance. 

 

Str8t

 

Well we finally have an official response from Wargaming - the WoT Mac Wrapper does not work in macOS Catalina and they are working on it.

 

See [Official Mac Wrapper Feedback Thread] and look for Post #1193






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