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 lostwingman, on Sep 14 2011 - 23:42, said:

You know...I never looked at it this way...I always saw CHOKEPOINT CHOKEPOINT CHOKEPOINT CHOKEPOINT CHOKEPOINT CHOKEPOINT.

But, after consideration of your argument, perhaps I will bump this map up a level or two on my hate list.  For the record, I rarely do well in any class of tank on this map.  But that's probably me not seeing the potential you listed.

 ctlbulldg06, on Sep 22 2011 - 20:06, said:

This map requires a measured approach, you don't want to go any of the paths alone or much ahead of your support. For some people that like to play aggressive this can be a draw back. It can be a kind of hard map to play but in pubs I almost always go west or play defense. The low road is the lemming path as it takes a long time to get into the enemy base from there and is easily defended from attack. West let's you have a dynamic push (with it's two intertwining high and low roads) and lets you defend your base from cap if you have to rush back. It's a nice path and one of my favorites in the game along with the north path in Karelia.

Komarin: I used to loathe this map, until i got my Chaffee, now i love it.

Still it could use some tweaking:

Swap the spawn point with the base cap areas for both sides
- gives a quick path from 1 base to another across the middle
- removes 2 of the open bridges from affecting gameplay
- gives both sides better chance of attacking the flag
- removes the easy and safe camp spots (forest) for SPG's making them choose risk vs reward.

Also this map is in need of some HARD indestructible cover for attacking and defending. Bushes are only good until you fire.

This map actually forces you to move to do either job: Defend or Attack.
You cannot spawndefcamp in this map like the others. That's why i like this map.

It also adds a random factor in pubidity: Are you a defense- or an offense-focused team? Same teamfocuses usually will end in draw on this map.

Though i must admit that this map is a bit biased towards Team 2 because in defending they got the better standing height behind the bridge (almost no obstructing hill next to the capture point).

 lostwingman, on Sep 14 2011 - 22:42, said:

I couldn't agree more.  This is the most imbalanced map by far.  If you start at II, you're only hope is a terrible I team that ignores their base defense or a supremely organized II team that pushes through their own flag in a group.  Otherwise II has much less cover, much less concealment and the enemies on their flag have better cover than the defenders do with the ridge along the west.  To add insult to injury II also gets a giant bog by their flag where you can't get back fast enough to defend or somehow spot the enemy across the small stream that's at your flag 20 meters away.

p.s.  You are nuts Ettanin, at spawn I you can go hull down by the flag and defend all day, you even have a little cover nearby from arty you can duck behind with the rocks every so often.

Komarin isn't nearly as bad as it was before.  You can aggressively defend by pushing into their attackers by your own base.  There's also lots of cover and many ways to disengage or stall if your attack gets ugly or if they brought more offense than you can hold.  The map provides a lot of ways for teams to shift their firepower and whoever holds the middle with spotting can affect greatly how their opponents adapt.

And some matches end quickly of 6-7 guys dogpile the cap.  Since they can't all shoot you at once without a good number of arty and spotting it is possible to win komarin in less than two minutes.

 Ettanin, on Sep 24 2011 - 01:47, said:

Ummm...what?


Can you elaborate on exactly what kind of attack you can do that isn't an all out rush early on or at least before you lose many tanks?

This map as I have stated has two setting, start rush or camp.

All you have on this map is spawndefcamp BUT now you can do that to the enemy cap!

Really doesn't change anything, your still just camping, still just sitting there, still just waiting for the overall numbers to fall decisively in one direction.

The only time a foolishly aggressive team that just fans out everywhere succeeds is when the team they are playing against is full of fools, which can happen any map now and any maps the devs shove in later. So that's not much of a valid strategy.

I don't get how this map is anything special on this "random" factor you speak of, "offensive team"?, "defensive team"???? What are these classifications? A good team is neither, a good team is balanced and thats how most if not all teams should play. Unless your speaking about start rushers being offensive teams and campers being defensive teams, that's not really changing anything and that's not really going to end in draw unless they are camping.

I just don't get any of the pros you list for this map.

 meff727, on Sep 24 2011 - 11:40, said:

hmmm you bring up an interesting point about rushing through your own base. I almost forgot about it but I would still lump it with start rushes to cap since the only way you can do that is right at the beginning have a solid chunk of your tanks cross that bridge and rush into the enemy. Usually in there the first 2-3 minutes will decide the winner the match taking a bit longer though if you wait to mop up.


It's really my preferred way of dealing with this map, but getting people along to do that is harder than getting people to rush cap on Malinovka from the south base :/

I cringe when i see this map come up. It's the only one where i just about hit exit battle.

It would be better if there was more cover as you are to exposed everywhere so when there is arty around you are toast. You are also too limited in where you can go, there is only 3 exposed lanes to move.

It would be better if the water was removed or made so tanks could move through it, giving more options to attack on this map.

Two map i suicide rush in  are (regardless of tank type) KOMARIN and campinovka.

I cannot stand this map. It has three choke points. I could see it being much more enjoyable if it had the two bridges (with barriers on either side of them) and open up the middle to a much larger area (perhaps elevate it so it could not be sniped easily and also more people would go for it since it would command a bit of the battlefield. Make the middle larger and have more access points. I rarely succeed in this map. Regardless what I play. If I play arty, someone always forgets to stop the light tank zooming around and it gets me (or enemy arty does). Or you get the few heavies that go into the middle and just sit there. Then there are the mediums and TD that camp/capture. It is a race to see who gets there first and who has the best vision etc.

If being a premium member would let me select what maps I don't want to play on with a tank. Example, I don't want to play my arty in the city setting. Ever. I rarely have done well against anyone in that setting. I don't want to play Komarin with any tank...period. If being a premium member would allow me to select that option...I would become one in a heart beat!

That is just my opinion though.

I choose to ressurect this topic,  I HATE THIS MAP!  and i've been getting it more and more often it seems.  At least once everytime I log in, and sometimes i only play for 20 min or less.

PLEASE WOT! reduce the requency of this map or alter its design so that it is not a campfest with opposing forces staring at each other for 15 min or getting massacred in the center peninsula.

This is long, but it might give you some ideas how to prevent stalemates and blowouts.

http://forum.worldof...marin-detailed/

Main things are figure out enemy's strong and weak sides, aggressively spot and remove enemies, send top heavies to middle to keep enemy from sniping you, and snipe sides from middle and middle from sides. And advance as soon as it's safe to advance, so you're not camping in bad cover the whole fight.

Too many people sit and wait, they don't respond to enemy layout or move around to get shots at other parts of the map. And they don't try to figure out when it's safe to advance.

The ONLY time I like that map is as an arty... otherwise it is the WORST map in the game.

I'm giving a +1 for Manos, Hands of Fate reference. Don't care if it's a necro +1, it's legit.

Last 3 battles on this map I've convinced people to just rush the flag, using whoever gets killed as cover. 3 2-minute wins later, I'll never play another way on this map that, in general, I can't stand.

Some people are perfectly happy with camping for 14 minutes until some poor unsuspecting bastard rolls into their sights and then BOOM! Instant gratification... which results in 90% of us being pissed this map still exists especially since we wasted so much of our time.

WG= if you want more paying customers make the game more user friendly. Its not rocket science.

Look at games like Skyrim.... almost everything is a matter of choice, from the character class to his attributes to the quests.

I'm done.