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Idea for more consistent artillery play

arty make arty damage again

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RickEdwards #1 Posted Dec 07 2018 - 03:36

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One thing that annoys me about arty is that they supposedly reduced the damage to make artillery a "support" class as opposed to a damage dealer. That, at this moment, is honestly a load of crap. At tier X, arty like the CGC and T92 will regularly hit and splash fairly well armored targets for 500+ damage, and, if you are in a tank with low top armor, have a possibility to pen for more that 1k damage. In addition, because people was the big damages, they will often neglect shooting super heavies that their team desperately needs them to shoot and shoot mediums and lights instead. They really just scrap making artillery a support class in the way of stun; here is what I though of:

 

In order to solve these problems, artillery needs to have more of a reason to shoot at targets that have higher armor in order to help their team. So, basically, to make it more consistent, give a slight accuracy buff, make the splash slightly small, and for the damage in the splash, have it go from maybe like 450ish (for an average tier 10, so maybe like b-c:350, 261: 400, GW:450, and CGC/T92: 500) in the center to around 100ish at the edge. In addition to that, make the pen 999; essentially make it do full damage regardless of armor. This would give a very effective counter to heavily armored tanks, as well as hulled down tanks. Also get rid of stun, as this change would put artillery back into a damage dealer class, since you would be able to hit single targets for a fairly high amount and then also splash surrounding targets for a decent amount. With the accuracy, you would easily be able to hit someone your team needs dead as well. Module damage probably would need to be adjusted because full-pen HE rounds do a lot and that would be too much on every shot.

 

But yeah, that's it.



BADGED_Qc #2 Posted Dec 07 2018 - 04:00

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Ishhhhh......lol 

death_stryker #3 Posted Dec 07 2018 - 04:02

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I like the idea you're getting at, but...I mean, isn't what you're proposing the ultimate XVM-sniping machine?



RickEdwards #4 Posted Dec 07 2018 - 04:21

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View Postdeath_stryker, on Dec 07 2018 - 04:02, said:

I like the idea you're getting at, but...I mean, isn't what you're proposing the ultimate XVM-sniping machine?

 

Honestly, not really; people who are actually good usually play mobile tanks like mediums. This would make heavies (especially super heavies) a more desirable target because the chance you will hit them is far greater than a smaller medium moving around.

_sandblaster #5 Posted Dec 07 2018 - 04:30

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Wouldn't this make people NOT play super HTs?

Reading this forum there is regularly a "ban gold" thread from some Maus or Type driver.



SnakePliskan #6 Posted Dec 07 2018 - 05:32

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Im all in if they make arty more accurate dispersion around the average for German TDs and reduce the reload to be equal to the average of the tanks in WG. Also add three types of ammo to arty along with 300 frontal armor and up the speed to match a lights average along with a 460 view range.

_Katyusha___ #7 Posted Dec 07 2018 - 06:44

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Arty is almost ok as is. It needs maybe more XP per assist dmg caused and a dmg normalization on med and light tanks moving (that is, sightly less dmg/crit chances caused by splash hit)

 

Of course, this is for non broken arty. There is arty that needs particular nerfs.



d3xdt3_IRL #8 Posted Dec 07 2018 - 07:23

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This is a horrible idea and is pretty much counter to the intended role that artillery serve.  If you want to fix arty, model them after artillery irl by introducing air burst mechanic.  As a former artilleryman who served as FDC for a M110A2 battery, I would say approximately 80% of our fire missions were sent with timed fuses, meaning that the shells exploded in the air rather than at ground level.  This could be easily implemented in the game by redefining the aim circle as the altitude circle.  Namely, as the "altitude" circle is large, the shell exploded at high altitude, thus spraying shrapnel over a large area.   Alternatively, if the altitude circle is fully "aimed" in, then the shell explodes at low altitude and spreads the damage across a smaller area.  This could allow for arty to either "spray" a large number of vehicles for a small amount of damage or a single vehicle for a large amount of damage.



scHnuuudle_bop #9 Posted Dec 07 2018 - 07:25

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You miss the point of WG wanting to return it to a support class, instead of a irregular killer.

 

It's power had crept up, to the point where I could get one of those fantastic orgasmic one shots kills on the biggest tank in the battle.

The problem was the frequency. Despite the whines, it hardly ever happened. It was a rigged lottery. Artillery is always on the losing end of accuracy, and RNG lowered not increased that.

 

So, they took away the damage and thereby created a support class.  With far better accuracy and the stun. Artillery is not in the game to deal damage. Assisted damage is the bread and butter, a force multiplier. A way to dig out campers and get them to hide in the back. Critical damage to slow down advances. A large splash and stun to let the enemies know they should slow down and keeps their heads down.



RickEdwards #10 Posted Dec 07 2018 - 14:36

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View Postd3xdt3_IRL, on Dec 07 2018 - 07:23, said:

This is a horrible idea and is pretty much counter to the intended role that artillery serve.  If you want to fix arty, model them after artillery irl by introducing air burst mechanic.  As a former artilleryman who served as FDC for a M110A2 battery, I would say approximately 80% of our fire missions were sent with timed fuses, meaning that the shells exploded in the air rather than at ground level.  This could be easily implemented in the game by redefining the aim circle as the altitude circle.  Namely, as the "altitude" circle is large, the shell exploded at high altitude, thus spraying shrapnel over a large area.   Alternatively, if the altitude circle is fully "aimed" in, then the shell explodes at low altitude and spreads the damage across a smaller area.  This could allow for arty to either "spray" a large number of vehicles for a small amount of damage or a single vehicle for a large amount of damage.

 

Intended real life role, or intended game role? Cause the in game role, at least before the change, was to counter slower, heavier tanks. With this it would be back to that.

RickEdwards #11 Posted Dec 07 2018 - 14:37

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View Post_sandblaster, on Dec 07 2018 - 04:30, said:

Wouldn't this make people NOT play super HTs?

Reading this forum there is regularly a "ban gold" thread from some Maus or Type driver.

 

No, people would still play them; they would just be less powerful, which is something they need.

RickEdwards #12 Posted Dec 07 2018 - 14:39

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View PostscHnuuudle_bop, on Dec 07 2018 - 07:25, said:

You miss the point of WG wanting to return it to a support class, instead of a irregular killer.

 

It's power had crept up, to the point where I could get one of those fantastic orgasmic one shots kills on the biggest tank in the battle.

The problem was the frequency. Despite the whines, it hardly ever happened. It was a rigged lottery. Artillery is always on the losing end of accuracy, and RNG lowered not increased that.

 

So, they took away the damage and thereby created a support class.  With far better accuracy and the stun. Artillery is not in the game to deal damage. Assisted damage is the bread and butter, a force multiplier. A way to dig out campers and get them to hide in the back. Critical damage to slow down advances. A large splash and stun to let the enemies know they should slow down and keeps their heads down.

 

No no, I understand well that Arty is not "supposed" to deal damage. The only problem is that it still does, especially to meds and lights, which it now has the accuracy to hit rather easily. This is to remove the "support" facade that WG placed on artillery and make it deal consistent damage instead of 1k to a LT and 50 to a super heavy.

scHnuuudle_bop #13 Posted Dec 07 2018 - 21:33

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View PostRickEdwards, on Dec 07 2018 - 14:39, said:

 

No no, I understand well that Arty is not "supposed" to deal damage. The only problem is that it still does, especially to meds and lights, which it now has the accuracy to hit rather easily. This is to remove the "support" facade that WG placed on artillery and make it deal consistent damage instead of 1k to a LT and 50 to a super heavy.

 

There was no effort to reduce artillery damage to zero, the purpose was to get away from the 2500HP hits, that only happened once every 50 shots.

I have no problems creating damage, sure some shots make me groan. CGC on a T95, zero damage, then a whopping ton of stun points. The requests pour in, only target is the T95, 15HP, but another 1000 stun points. One more shot, oh, wonderful a large heavy tank facing away, boom 900HP, I will take that over 3 shots missing.

 

My accuracy went from 30% to 45%, there are no artillery with accuracy rates anywhere even close to the worst of other vehicles. But it created a wonderful game platform. I as well as many others had to rework the game to continue enjoying it. Lots quit, because they wanted that killer and nothing else would suffice.

Will artillery ever be like a TD, and lead scoring in games? Probably not on a regular basis, occasionally. Will artillery stand heads above others with assisted damage points, I hope so. No one else seems to like support, so why not. It is very rare to see anyone else, getting even hundreds of spotting assist points. 

 

As for hitting lights and mediums. Either you are way better than most, luckier or have some real idiots driving these little tanks. Nothing has changed. A shot at a light racing across is not a yawn and click shot.

The deflection is huge, both from distance and a 5 second flight time. Add that to a 45% hit rate, RNG that never causes that figure to increase and the shooting of fast tanks all the time or even regularly, in my opinion becomes a myth. SImilar to the myth about XVM sniping or the stories that existed about 1 shot kills.

 

Do artillery players even bother to target these fast tanks, I certainly do not even look at them. I will try if the victim is the only one lit up, there are requests, or he is going to threaten me.

And to complete the above 3 criteria, the light driver has to be a fool. Zooming about in the same pattern, driving in straight lines, and even better, driving towards an obvious location.

Hitting them accurately, if one of 4 shots is accurate, then I suppose so.

 

Basically, I go for enemies who are engaged or about to be , by my team. I rely on the splash more than anything else. Stuns and critical damage helps my team more than damage alone.

But I will willing accept the damage as well. I am good for things like the poor dumb light driver who raced to some wee little rock, and now can spot 1/2 the map. It may take several shots, but splash that rock will either kill him, or discourage him from camping there. I am not looking to kill him as a primary, just to get him out of that camping spot. I will take the damage, but I want him to try to run and get messily smeared by my teammates.



n4cer67 #14 Posted Dec 29 2018 - 23:30

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I like the idea of better accuracy and damage. The SPG's have always been a support class regardless of what people say and the reduction in accuracy and damage hurt their ability to properly support the team.




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