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[ST] Premium Ammo Rebalance


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Hellsfog #41 Posted Dec 22 2018 - 01:09

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The T-44, which struggles against tier 10 and 9 super heavy tanks/Tds, is going to have it's average damage reduced to 190 so it can struggle more?  If WG wants to reduce the damage on premium ammo, then institute +1 MM so that gold rounds aren't as much of a necessity.  

GroundDelta #42 Posted Dec 22 2018 - 01:37

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View Posttaugrim, on Dec 20 2018 - 17:56, said:

Literally zero MMO PVP games with meaningful populations - and I do mean zero - support a "magic arrow that costs more" mechanic like WoT does. It's incredibly unhealthy for the game's population and gives WoT a bad reputation.

 

The best solution would for WoT to adopt a system like what Armored Warfare implemented:

I. all rounds cost roughly the same - therefore no P4A issue
II. all rounds have tradeoffs, so it forces decisions on the player based on the target

 

E.g.:
A. APCR: highest pen, low damage
B. AP: high pen, medium damage
C. HEAT: med pen, high damage
D. HE: low pen, highest damage

 

This is the most fair system for all players, paying or F2P.

 

Dynamic damage value(s) for different shell types unbalances the game-play for a variety of vehicles all at different tiers, the most affected being auto-loaders or medium/light tanks with 105 mm guns > or smaller. If an IS-3 has to brawl a VK4502B, naturally it will need to load a higher penetrating APCR shell (to a certain degree) to be able to trade, or at least compete with the Tier 9 Heavy. By reducing the damage capability of higher penetrating shells you allow higher tier vehicles to simply out-trade lower tiered vehicles with even greater ease than already seen now as they won't have  to load higher penetrating shells thus doing more damage. Static damage value(s) allow for tanks not be be handicapped for having to load a higher penetrating shell and still able to compete and do damage. 

 

In it's current form, this change will cause more people to fire "premium shells" because more of it will be needed to kill heavy tanks as standard ammunition is usually not enough to take down heavily armored vehicles. Basically every 1 "premium shell now" will = 2 post-change, thus more of it will be fired.

You have to take into account that each map naturally funnels people into corridors, or fighting zones in which brawls happen. Flanking is non-existent because the maps dont permit flanking as one Tank Destroyer in theory can pin multiple tanks. The arty/tank destroy safe locations are sometimes in said corridors, and thus most tanks will go there rather than have to push into camping TDs/Arty. So by changing the damage values of shells, you basically make super-heavys or heavily armored heavys even stronger than they already are because they can in theory out-trade most tanks. 

 

The only practical change that would prevent "premium spam" is to reduce the price of it, and add a ammunition cap for higher penetrating shells on a vehicle by vehicle basis based upon gun caliber, ammunition stock capability, and tier. 



Scrawnybeaver #43 Posted Dec 22 2018 - 03:08

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No offence anybody but I noticed that pretty much all the comments are from long-term, experienced players that probably spend most of their time at Tier 10.  So I will give my opinion as the player that has never been at Tier 10 (except when being feasted on while playing Tier 8 rentals) and is bottom tier 85% of the time.  When you are two-tier down (about 65% of the time), or even one-tier down with some tanks, you need "special" ammo to do any kind of damage to higher tier tanks.  And you have to hit them often while you are a 1-2-3 hit goner.  So special ammo is an essential and reducing the damage just makes it harder on us i.e. we are going to be destroyed even faster.  What fun!

 

From my perspective, there is no need for special ammo at Tiers 6 and below where I spend my time.  The logical solution is simply to get rid of the current matchmaker and give us lower-tier guys a break by keeping every battle even tier or at worse plus or minus one tier.  I will gladly wait a couple of minutes for a game if that means that I get even tier because it will be much more interesting and fun.  Unfortunately, less than 2% of the battles are even tier between Tier 3 and 6 based on my records (I track every game).

 

So the matchmaker is the problem for me.  Everything else that is purported to be a problem like special ammo is just a symptom of the matchmaker problem.

 

You listening WGC?  I am your new player that you desperately need.    The old, experienced guys are still around which pretty much proves that they will put up with about anything.  I WILL NOT so you only have so much time to correct your miserable matchmaker before I decide that I have had enough.  You have a great game but you seem to go out of your way to make me dislike it.  Wake up.  Maybe you need lower tier players represented in your development committees or whatever you use for that purpose. 

 

Respectfully,

 

A Newbie

 

 

 

 



Diet_Mothra #44 Posted Dec 22 2018 - 04:03

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     WG please don’t listen to those who are childishly screaming about super heavies/heavies (referred to as SHH from now on) becoming buffed, etc. Most tanks turn SHH armor into butter whenever the 2 key is tapped. Changes to the premium ammo will not turn SHH into lumbering power houses. It will level out the constant gold spam that SHH receive. Very few people don’t tap the 2 key when fighting against SHH. Nerfing SHH armor will only cripple one of their redeeming features. They are extremely slow, easily seen, slow turret, and slow reload. Take away the armor and what do they have? High HP. That’s it. SHH don't need additional weak spots.

 

      The WOT community loves to regurgitate opinions regarding “problems” they hear and pretend to be outraged by said problems.


Edited by Diet_Mothra, Dec 22 2018 - 04:06.


CaptainCoAx #45 Posted Dec 22 2018 - 04:26

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BLUF: I'm fine with the changes, but I don't hear anyone talking about some tanks [even some premiums] being made even more irrelevant than they were pre- proposed nerf. {Their standard AP pens should be "looked at".} I elaborate below:   ...{though, "bad" AP pens are likely their own "condition" for "fix needed", anyway}...

 

My only concern with these changes: Nerfing all special ammo damage affects different tanks differently ["duh" you say -fair].
For instance: Nerf special ammo for M4A3E2 [105], KV-2, U.S. T34 or Strv S1? Ha! Nobody cares. Who shoots premium in those? Their "standard" ammo is sufficient.

I note that the supertest does not include altering special ammo for the IS-6, T32, Type 59, or T26E4. These tanks are "more heavily reliant" on special ammo just to remain relevant.

In the extreme case of the IS-6, the standard ammo pen makes it [the standard ammo: "BUFFED!" to 186mm!!] worthless, and the special ammo for the IS-6 becomes DEFAULT (meaning  BASE LOAD). Only then can the IS-6 be comparable to peer tier 8 Heavy Tanks, and now it doesn't really have a "special round" to turn to, because the "special ammo" is the only stuff at tier that has the possibility of working against peer and higher tiers. [Caveat: I don't own an IS-6 for this reason, among others] Shoot- I stopped at the U.S. T29, because I didn't want to have to resort to gold spam in the T32 just to be competitive- Okay- who am I kidding- not "competitive", just "survive".

 

TL;DR: Please don't cherry pick "meh" cases in the supertest to justify the alteration of the universe as a whole. Please pay special attention to those cases where, in effect, you'll ACTUALLY be nerfing some tanks' PRIMARY ammo type. 


Edited by CaptainCoAx, Dec 22 2018 - 05:50.


mrtanker58 #46 Posted Dec 22 2018 - 04:53

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T-50-2 alpha reduction for GOLD rounds?

 

Why even shoot at 75 alpha per shot?

 

A T-50-2 can't pen tier 8 heavies even from the sides and rear and even some tier 7 heavies with AP but you want to reduce GOLD round alpha to 75 alpha per shot?

 

At 75 Alpha it will take a T50-2 23 shot to kill a tier 8 heavy.

 

23 SHOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

ALPHA reduction for GOLD rounds is STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Edited by mrtanker58, Dec 22 2018 - 04:57.


mrtanker58 #47 Posted Dec 22 2018 - 04:58

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View PostDiet_Mothra, on Dec 22 2018 - 03:03, said:

     WG please don’t listen to those who are childishly screaming about super heavies/heavies (referred to as SHH from now on) becoming buffed, etc. Most tanks turn SHH armor into butter whenever the 2 key is tapped. Changes to the premium ammo will not turn SHH into lumbering power houses. It will level out the constant gold spam that SHH receive. Very few people don’t tap the 2 key when fighting against SHH. Nerfing SHH armor will only cripple one of their redeeming features. They are extremely slow, easily seen, slow turret, and slow reload. Take away the armor and what do they have? High HP. That’s it. SHH don't need additional weak spots.

 

      The WOT community loves to regurgitate opinions regarding “problems” they hear and pretend to be outraged by said problems.

 

You have been playing the game for 3-months are you are an "expert?"

yakri #48 Posted Dec 22 2018 - 06:33

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View Posttaugrim, on Dec 20 2018 - 17:56, said:

Before talking about any solution, it's key to understand the two issues with premium ammo in its current state:

1. it is a huge credit sink that puts pressure on the player to spend real money on things (e.g. premium subscription, premium tanks) to boost their credit income

2. it invalidates the heavy armor of tanks, while leaving those tanks having to deal with all the downsides of bearing heavy armor (poor mobility, poor hull traverse, poor turret traverse, etc)

 

I'm going to focus on #1 above, because the proposed solution fails to address it.

 

Reducing the alpha on premium ammo, but still retaining the high cost, does not at all fix the "pay for advantage" (P4A) problem. There are many cases where the silver round won't penetrate, and even if you reduce the damage on the premium round, you're basically forcing the decision: 0 damage or some damage at a higher cost.

 

Anything that requires customers to pay more for particular ammo is a credit sink and therefore favors paying customers. It's incredibly unhealthy for F2P players, which keep a population healthy and may convert to paying customers.

 

Literally zero MMO PVP games with meaningful populations - and I do mean zero - support a "magic arrow that costs more" mechanic like WoT does. It's incredibly unhealthy for the game's population and gives WoT a bad reputation.

 

The best solution would for WoT to adopt a system like what Armored Warfare implemented:

I. all rounds cost roughly the same - therefore no P4A issue
II. all rounds have tradeoffs, so it forces decisions on the player based on the target

 

E.g.:
A. APCR: highest pen, low damage
B. AP: high pen, medium damage
C. HEAT: med pen, high damage
D. HE: low pen, highest damage

 

This is the most fair system for all players, paying or F2P.

 

 

I'd like to add, that it is important that these changes don't entirely address point #2 either. Having a mechanic that over pens by such a massive amount on many tanks that it utterly invalidates any skill in armor angling isn't healthy for the game.

 

It'd be fine to have an ammo type that is better versus good armor, but it's a problem in itself having an ammo type that ignores one of the game's most significant mechanics.



docroberts #49 Posted Dec 22 2018 - 06:35

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Better increase the loadout for certain tanks that are dependent on doing damage but barely carry enough rounds to finish a game . Also decrease the RNG from 25 % down to 18% . Cost in the Ammo needs to drop as well . I for one own many of the tanks in game and I don't have a problem with decreased damage on premium rounds . BUT they cant just decrease damage and not make other adjustments as well AT THE SAME TIME . Not months or a year from now and if something needs adjusted , It needs to be immediately  and as mentioned , not many months down the road . 

skagalak #50 Posted Dec 22 2018 - 07:08

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I'm not sure there's any point offering ideas and suggestions to Wargaming about game balance issues. 

they haven't listened in the past until it was 'too late'.  The most recent example, in my opinion, is the Object 263 v4.  

The tank was so imbalanced it was obvious to everyone except wargaming and they are the ones who should be able to see the problem before anyone else.

It took far too long to address the balance issues with this tank.

 

the game has been modified so many times to find ways for players to spend gold or credits at every single turn and the whole gold ammo issue is just one example of wargaming being failing repeatedly to fix a broken game mechanic.

 

Now that I own like 52 premium tanks, I think I'm going to be fairly unhappy with whatever change they decide to make because it's going to effectively nerf each and every one of them.

 

Taugrim's ideas sound better than many other's I've seen but at the end of the day tanks like the Maus and the Type 5 heavy AND Wargaming are the only winners in a gold ammo nerf.

 

I'll have to shoot even more of the expensive "special ammo" to do the same work effectively giving even more of my hard fought credits to wargaming.

 

Maybe stop giving away tanks like the LeFH, IS3A, Defender and KV-220-2 -- all of these tanks have balance issues but the game is literally flooded with them now.

 

I wish I had a real idea but I don't.  Maybe reduce damage by 10% and decrease cost by 25%... it's going to be better to make smaller changes incrementally rather than massive changes all at once.

 

Another thing you could do, is BUFF the low pen values on tanks with horrible AP penetration.

 

And, for god's sake, remove this BS premium HE ammo on tanks like the Type 4 and Type 5 heavies.  It's awful.  I rarely see one of those tanks NOT shooting premium HE ammo.  



taugrim #51 Posted Dec 22 2018 - 07:13

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View Postskagalak, on Dec 22 2018 - 06:08, said:

Taugrim's ideas sound better than many other's I've seen but at the end of the day tanks like the Maus and the Type 5 heavy AND Wargaming are the only winners in a gold ammo nerf.

 

Oh, armor needs to be re-worked too. The lack of meaningful frontal weak spots on heavies, especially the "super heavies" from tiers 8-10, is a big issue.



SilverforceX #52 Posted Dec 22 2018 - 08:05

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My feedback is from someone who rarely ever fires a single special/gold/premium ammo in all my years of playing. 

 

We first have to agree on on some basic truths in WoT. Special ammo is designed and intended to be a credit sink. The intention is for players who spam it, must have a premium sub and some form of premium tanks to farm credits to sustain it. 

 

This is a Pay 2 Win by design, anyone who thinks otherwise needs to step away from the keyboard now because they clearly lack logic. The design is for whales (premium) to club seals (freemium). 

 

Now, why this is a problem, we have to understand some basic principles of tank balance.

 

Size (thus, profile, easier to hit, profile, camo, view range etc), mobility, armor, firepower, all of these factors make or break tanks.

 

A large slow tank relies on it's armor.

 

A small fast tank relies on it's mobility & low profile (think camo & view-range advantage, along with being a smaller target).

 

When people press 2, they negate armor. But the driver of a large slow tank can't press 2 and negate the mobility & profile of a fast tank.

 

Thus, there is an inherent huge advantage for the player of low profile fast tanks because they can always dab 2 to bypass the strength of heavies.

 

This was always badly designed for balance but it stuck for years.

 

But let's not pretend that WG will make their game less pay 2 win, because that would drop their revenue. They fully know the whales that play WoT have a huge wallet and don't care that they ruin game balance by spamming gold ammo, or any other advantage they can buy.

 

Therefore, the high credit cost will remain regardless of player feedback. 

 

But this change is still very good, because it will make gold spammers continue to gold spam or even more.

 

1. WG makes their money.

 

2. It will reward tanks with armor, even if the gold ammo penetrates, it will do less damage. So when someone presses 2 to negate armor, they incur a -25% dmg penalty. It's no longer win-win situation for the gold spammer.

 

3. It reward players who rely on their skill to never rely on gold ammo in the first place.

 

4. It rewards freemium players (the vast playerbase) who cannot afford to spam gold, by them receiving less dmg from gold spamming whales.

 

These are all great things for the game.

 

As for the Type 5 changes: it is substantially nerfed with the changes, since it loses 1400 HE rounds. The 1100 basic HE rounds only do ~150 to 300 damage to armored tanks. The 750 HESH is useless vs armored tanks. This balances its effective armor buff with the nerf to premium ammo.



Lord_Magus #53 Posted Dec 22 2018 - 08:05

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View PostDomoSapien, on Dec 20 2018 - 18:34, said:

How will the share of HE shell damage change? Currently the total share of HE damage is small, and we don’t intend to change it. Overall, the combined special HE shell damage is mostly dealt by the Type 4 Heavy and the Type 5 Heavy tanks (we adjusted some stats of both of these for the test). The special round for the Type 5 Heavy will be substituted with a HESH with an alpha of 750 points and a penetration of 193 mm. During the tests, we’ll thoroughly monitor the changes in HE shells usage after the special rounds rebalance.

 

Personally I think this is a mistake. The 152mm gun on the Type 4 Heavy and Type 5 Heavy is a naval rifle, not a howitzer. As such it should not be a derp gun. It should have an AP shell, an HE shell and either APCR or HEAT as its "special ammo" shell. There's a pair of other tier 10 heavies that have similar caliber main guns (the E-100 and the 60TP) which both have 950 alpha for their HE rather the 1100 alpha of the Type 5 Heavy. In terms of shell velocity Type 5 Heavy's gun sits right between them, faster than the E-100's and slower than the 60TP's. Nerfing the HE alpha to be in line with other 15cm guns and adding a workable AP shell would make the Type 5 akin to a more armored but bigger and slower E-100.

 

Or if you don't want the Type 5 Heavy to become "E-100 Japan Edition" then just remove the 15 cm/45 41st Year Type gun entirely and buff penetration of the stock 14 cm/50 3rd Year Type's AP shells to be useful at tier 10.


Edited by Lord_Magus, Dec 22 2018 - 08:08.


SilverforceX #54 Posted Dec 22 2018 - 08:15

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For people who think the Type 4 and 5 will be hugely buff with these changes, think again.

 

It's a huge nerf in their damage dealing potential. 1100 vs 1400 HE is a huge difference in terms of actual damage dealt.

 

Think a scenario where Type 4/5 is fighting an IS-7 or 277, 1400 HE vs their 300 turret armor, is 700 (50%) - 300 = ~400 dmg dealt per shot on average. 

 

Now with the 1100 HE round, it's 550 - 300 = ~250 dmg per shot. 

 

Against armored targets, the Type 4/5 will deal ~62% damage per shot, it's a major nerf.

 

The biggest buffs will come to fast HT with good armor, things like IS-7, 277, WZ 5A, 113 and 430U, they still have their mobility, and if they get hit with gold spam, they get less dmg received. Meanwhile, slower super heavies will live longer vs someone engaging them frontally with gold, but still die horribly to flankers due to their lack of mobility.



Noowin #55 Posted Dec 22 2018 - 08:42

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Here's my thoughts: 

 

Rebalancing premium ammo is what this game needs, but it'll be a huge undertaking. Only changing premium ammo won't change anything. There needs to be four big changes to make this viable:

 

1. Rebalance the current super heavy tank meta. Tanks like the Type 5 Heavy ata retarded because they're well-armored everywhere. That's unacceptable. If you can't pen it using standard rounds from the front... Somewhere, it's just not conducive to dynamic gameplay. Heavy tanks need weakspots. 

 

2. Rebalance the maps. Corridors are bad for the game and make heavily armored tanks even stronger than they would otherwise be. Give more opportunities for flanking and dynamic gameplay. Not every corridor needs to be a brawlfest. 

 

3. Rebalance the matchmamer. The MM should prioritize +1, then randomize between +2 and +0. 3/5/7 should not be the default. +2 MM does make games more dynamic, but it shouldn't be the default. This will improve player experience. 

 

4. Rebalance special ammo. The price can still remain higher (for muh historical accuracy), sure. However, it should be possible to break even firing a reasonable amount of gold in a good game. It should be possible to break even, profit wise, with special ammo assuming: you take no return damage and earn no other profit and shoot tanks 2 tiers higher and all shots pen and you spot the tanks yourself. It'll be difficult, but possible. 

 

How would this change the meta? Superheavies are getting a nerf in multiple ways, but that should be fine. Tanks with higher pen or higher accuracy will get a much-needed buff. Tanks with low pen but otherwise exception stats will get a (well-deserved) nerf. Light tanks will get a buff. 

 

Now, how do we make the classes equal? 

 

Buff light tanks. Change their view range to be BETTER than mediums of the same tier. Reduce terrain resistance across the board slightly. 

 

Remove stun from arty and reduce module damage, but increase RoF and splash. Meanwhile, change accuracy mechanics to be equally likely to land anywhere in the teticle. Change arty from a class that can orbital death cannon a tank across the map to one that tries to break strangleholds and shell areas with high concentrations of tanks... As it should be. 

 

Nerf OP premiums. It's utter [edited]that the LeFH and Defender and IS-3A exist. It's [edited]that the Progetto is better than the Pantera (maybe swap them, but let people with a premium Progetto maintain premium tank rewards). It's [edited]that the LT-432 exists. 

 

Ok, but what about the new player experience? Player retention and stuff!

 

Create a separate MM queue in tiers 1-5 for players with less than X battles. Maybe 1000? Maybe 3000? Something like that. That way, players that play seal-clubbing tanks might get the occasional seal, but will most likely just get poor players that are already invested in the game. That's fine. Might make low tiers more engaging for older players too. 

 

In the same vein, inform players of the above benefits. Actually, give new players a better rewards system and tutorial. WG can do this as they see fit, but it should cover at least:

 

Vision mechanics

Flanking

Leading targets

Artillery

Different equipment/crew skills (these can be rewards when completing tutorial) 

Benefits of premium tanks and premium time (WG needs to make money)

Ammo types and their benefits/drawbacks

Effectively using armor

??? What else ???

 

WoT is a huge cash cow for Wargaming... And it should be. It's a great game. However, it could be so much better and more profitable, and that's the important part. 

 

Do NOT ban names/stats. If tanks want to rush you, just outplay them. Since arty has been changed, it's more difficult to get focused by arty. 

 

And, well, by the end of it, who knows what'll happen? It's a massive change in the game. 



Snohoe #56 Posted Dec 22 2018 - 09:50

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Can't believe the amount of people advocating for keeping p2w ammo unnerfed... 

 

 



Snohoe #57 Posted Dec 22 2018 - 09:53

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View Posttaugrim, on Dec 22 2018 - 00:13, said:

 

Oh, armor needs to be re-worked too. The lack of meaningful frontal weak spots on heavies, especially the "super heavies" from tiers 8-10, is a big issue.

 

Jap heavies, defender, vkp, 268 v4. Everything else is relatively balanced I think...most other tanks have actual weak weakspots or are gimped in other areas in exchange for stronger "weakspots" A lot of these issues would be solved anyways with the revised MM prioritising +1 MM over +2

 

I don't see the maus or e100 suddenly massively overperforming after these changes... 

 

They need to make this first step then tweak the over and under performers afterwards, dancing around it is just gonna take years at WGs working speed.



mrtanker58 #58 Posted Dec 22 2018 - 13:47

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GOLD should be left alone until WG is prepared to nerf armor.

 

A GOLD NERF affects the following classes and tanks in particular that WG has not considered:

 

 

TD BUFF causing more campy game play as more people play TDS

 

since TDS have very high AP pen

 

SUPER HEAVY BUFF already the least popular class after ARTY

 

since they have gold shot at them the most

 

HEAVY BUFF

 

since heavies have gold shot at them the second most after super heavies

 

BRITISH TD BUFF

 

since they rely heavily on ARMOR

 

T95 BUFF

 

since it has gold fired on it the most

 

MATILDA BUFF (to ruin low tiers even more)

 

since Matilda has a high pen AP round and high armor values

 

TYPE 4 and 5 MEGA BUFF

 

since they both have gold shot at them the most and they don't have to shoot gold 

 

ARTY BUFF

 

since arty does not shoot gold

 

LIGHT TANK NERF

 

since nobody shoots gold at lights and they NEED gold to win games pen many heavies even from the sides

 

MEDIUM TANK NERF

 

since you don't have to shoot gold at most mediums and they NEED gold to win games and pen many heavies even from the sides

 

 

 


Edited by mrtanker58, Dec 22 2018 - 13:53.


Sealana #59 Posted Dec 22 2018 - 17:22

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Oh no gold round nerf, what will we do???

 

First, it needs to happen, but, it needs to be monitored down to the most detailed scale one can think of, but everyone is complaining about the type 5 being useless. I went into a training room with my brother this morning, he was running the S. Conq., one of the most heavily turreted tanks in the game right, due to that heat shield, should be effective right?  standard ammo shot into left shield cheek, 499 damage, 2 key tapped, kai round loaded, 589 damage.hmmmmmm. we tested it over and over again. all shots did about 100-150 more damage then a standard round off the 41st year gun. i say, sure, nerf it, whats it going to matter with those numbers? the dispersion on the type 5 is hilarious. it's not meant to snipe.you pull up, derp a round in someone's face, back up. HT's are meant to cause congestion, that is what the type 5 does.it makes people think twice before coming around the corner. so you're going to give it a HESH round, with 193 mm of pen.why would i even use that? 75 mm of pen is going to go through the back of common HT's, 99% of meds, and its going to wreck any light it hits. module damage is going to wreck TD guns.ok, so i cant pen the front of a tank, i can still shoot the ground between the tracks, do a helluva lot of damage and blow tracks off, im not going to snipe at a tank with 193 mm squash head shell with a type 5 only doing 750 average damage, are you nuts? but hey, that's what people do with it, and that is the behavior you're going to get if you put that into the game. it's a HT, it's not a stage 2, or a deaths star.

 

now i said gold balancing does need to happen, and it truth, it does. look at the foch B to get any kind of real damage done, you need a reliable round. the french TD's have terrible gun trav, and with a nerf that i will discuss shortly, you dont see many of them on the field, no one wants to play them. the same can be said for the garbage tank,*Chrysler k). they made the tank to fire gold, and to have gold fired back at it. everything for a long time has been designed for the wallet warrior in mind. people want to complain about the armor on the type 5, how about some of the damn armor on some medium tanks?looking at you russian line.

 

what no one is really looking at totally, is that WG has done this to themselves, and has backed themselves into a corner. there are a lot of complaints about all the different tanks, but no one wants to drop the truth, or maybe they just don't remember the truth?

 

Let's start here.

 

Arty- no one likes arty because no one can shoot at them. they get rained on from above, stunned to death, and there is nothing you can do, but they also complained about getting one shot at one point, and arty went through several shifts. possible solutions.

 

-the stun mechanic needs some work. either reduce the stun time, or reduce the stun effects to the crew a little bit. not being able to shoot at a tank in front of you because your bloom is the size of texas for 15 seconds is just painful and stupid

 

-increase damage by 100-200, lower splash radius, DO NOT give the shell extra pen, and they do not need a gold round to increase splash radius, whats the point?

 

- keep in mind, arty was designed to take out heavy armor, they are there to take out the type 5 and the maus, the e 100 and the 705A's.you want to complain about arty, they reduce camping.no one wants to sit in one spot perma stunned...if you do, you are an idiot.

 

- put arty tracer BACK into the game. arty took out other arty, and they made the tracer so faint that on some maps you can't even see it, and it is so faint on other maps you can miss it easily. when arty was constantly blocking other arty, you had to move after you made your shot, which meant less rounds down on the enemy.(this is going to be effected by other explanations further down as well).

 

Light Tanks- they are useless and worthless in the current game, straight up, period, no further details needed.

 

LT's used to be your forward engagement force, they spotted for you, with the reduction in damages over time, armor buffs, nerfs to spotting ranges and such, they are fodder. give them BACK their spotting range.it's not a medium tanks role, why did they even make it such a thing? LT's move at 100% camo values, meds don't.

 

Mediums- jesus....they are meta now, they do everything.some can be tank destroyers (k91), they are all used for spotting which is stupid.some of them are better armored then heavy tanks. meds are flankers,brawlers, but WG decided to make them the go to tank for play. unnerfing some of the nerfs WG has made can re-balance this role a bit, but it will require some nerfs to the mediums to get them back into their footing.

 

Tank Destroyers- they are designed to take out the heavy metal rolling down the field at you, hence the name "tank destroyer", but not all of them can do that now, and some of them dont even stay in cover, they get in your face, again, russian line. remember the shell dispersion nerf? that did the TD's in, but, they added in the swed line to pat us all on the head and butter us over, making 1 line better then all. TD's take out heavy armor by snagging those weak points in tanks, they can't do that now, and some even need gold ammo loaded at all times to even get any damage in.

 

Heavies-oooohhh the heavies......there was not ever, any tank created or designed to have 4 feet of armor thickness all the way around. they wanted the tank to move and be effective on the field.....the type 5 did have weak spots at one point, so did the maus, now its all armor better then stalinium.driver slits where a thing, including some gunner ports. commander hatches, armor joining points at flat angles. the e-100 still has weak points on it's turret of the periscope and the radar bar, why are the knots on top of the maus turret weak points? you made driver and gunner ports on the type 5 at one point weak spots, or shall we say so called weak spots.want to reduce the amount of gold fired?put skill back into play, instead of us players staring at a red armor indicator as it rolls towards us with nothing to do.side scraping wa once a thing, its not anymore.

 

 

other things could be done, reduce the amount of corridors per map, or create more non corridor maps. this gives TD and light tank effectiveness back, and reduces the effectiveness of heavies, stop releasing P tanks...we dont need those.fix the MMing a bit, it does need tweaked, and tier 8 MMing does suck with all the garbage spewed into it. I do agree statistics need to be hidden from other players, AS LONG as they are not in a clan with you. clans do clan wars, those need to be seen to help aid in improvement, but leaving a name in will not hurt anything like XVM has. people can go on and on with this forum, in the end its up to WG to decide, it's their game, but they dont listen to us. they want to make good money again, release some awesome [edited]skins people. you have tweaked the exterior feature a bit, why are you not running with it? get involved with some other companies, disney, Square, someone. get some mickey mouse skins in for the goofy nerds, some metal gear solid skins in, or something. the ability to make money is there, If you would listen to us.



DakilIzor #60 Posted Dec 22 2018 - 18:22

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These changes are very short sighted and are simply a bandaid fix to what has been a problem that's only been getting worse over time. You have to consider WHY people shoot gold ammo. There are a few reasons and if you actually take time to think about it (instead of just going "gOlD sPaMmInG uNiCuM!!!" ) you'll find the actual issues. 

 

Heavy tank meta is the main reason. Yes, it's been heavy tank meta for a while. The only meta mediums in this meta are the 907 and 430U, two tanks that are basically heavy tanks and (wow, surprise) require gold to be shot at. The Type 5 even existing is another reason. Unless you actually like becoming useless, you need to load at least 10 gold rounds for the possibility of having to fight a Type 5. The same deal goes for the Maus. The difference is that post change, you'll need to bring 30% more gold ammo. Speaking of the Type 5 and Maus, you also have to consider that absolutely horrible side armor layout they have that allows them to bounce/absorb shots from the side. That needs to go if this is ever going to work, and super heavies need to be punished really hard for giving full side. 

 

The maps are another big reason. Anyone who says "just flank loooool" clearly doesn't win many of their games and depends on their team to win for them so they can "flank" a tank. 

 

The tanks themselves. Look I'm going to be honest with you, there's a few tanks that are just down right garbage without gold ammo. Imagine dealing with the T57's gun handling without knowing that you'll pen your shots. Imagine trying to pen anything at all with the AMX 30B's horrible horrible standard round. Imagine trying to even slightly enjoy playing the M4 54 with that god awful standard AP round. 

 

So no, people aren't shooting gold because they like losing credits or they want to create a "pay 2 win" environment. People are shooting gold because the tanks they fight, the maps they fight on, and the tanks they are playing necessitate it. Simply making the gold ammo nigh useless is only going to make the meta slower (world of warships slow) and make fighting heavy tanks even more annoying. 


Edited by Gatortribe, Dec 22 2018 - 18:22.





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