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WhineMaker #21 Posted Dec 23 2018 - 01:55

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View PostEdibleEmpire, on Dec 22 2018 - 16:49, said:

 

They attract a similar type of player in pubs. Arty is fine in any organized play. It should have never been allowed in pbu matches.

 

If you are having a difficult time with arty, then stick to organized play. Or better yet, go play WoT Blitz for your arty free games, all the time... :arta:

EdibleEmpire #22 Posted Dec 23 2018 - 01:57

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View PostWhineMaker, on Dec 22 2018 - 19:55, said:

 

If you are having a difficult time with arty, then stick to organized play. Or better yet, go play WoT Blitz for your arty free games, all the time... :arta:

 

Or maybe they can remove it. You seem to have no problem with tanks getting removed and other things being rebalanced. Why would this be any different? 

Zombie_Snuggles #23 Posted Dec 23 2018 - 02:29

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View PostGS_G3K, on Dec 20 2018 - 20:45, said:

 

Love it!!!

Zombie_Snuggles #24 Posted Dec 23 2018 - 02:43

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View Postcloudwalkr, on Dec 20 2018 - 21:42, said:

 

As a beta player, I do remember what arty was like....and I agree with OP that it is far worse now than ever before with the stun mechanic.  In the past, if arty fired at you and missed...you were fine.  If they hit you, you were back in the garage mildly frustrated.  Now...well, now I get to sit in cover taking arty splash every 25sec keeping me perma stunned all game.  And please, don't tell me to learn to dodge arty or to learn to get arty safe....because that's a joke in and of itself.  

 

I'd 100% agree to go back to arty pre-stun mechanic.  Now, people still hide behind those building and rocks you talk about...but can be stunned all game because of arty reload and the fact it takes so long for kits to go off cooldown.  I've had many matches where I'm stunned literally all game and by the time the match is over I'm so frustrated I could do bodily harm to someone.  I was never that frustrated when I got one shot.

 

The actual "solution" to arty in my opinion is remove stun, give some of them a little higher alpha dmg, limit arty to 1 per side per game, remove player stats from public games (because XVM focus is a legit cancer to this game, please don't even try and tell me it's not).  The arty stun mechanic is one of, if not the worst, mechanics in the game.  Instead of ending your match, now you get griefed literally all game if you're anywhere near a good player. 

 

Anyone with half a clue could see that arty stun was going to be a glorified griefing mechanic - and I've had many players confirm that that's exactly what they do in it...find the high rated players and spam them all game.  I'd rather be one shot and move on to the next match.

 

 

 

I like your argument against stun. I am not a target of XVM focus but I have experienced being stunned silly all game enough to feel that exact don't talk to me now or I'll hurt you emotion. I also liked the arty game better before, and that was before I ever played it.

Zombie_Snuggles #25 Posted Dec 23 2018 - 02:47

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View PostThePwnageMachine, on Dec 20 2018 - 20:39, said:

Before I start ranting about artillery, let me clarify something. I am FULLY aware, that there are hundreds of threads talking about how artillery needs to be re-done, and threads where people complain about artillery. I am also aware that my voice most likely will not be heard, but please, just hear me out.

 

I don't know about everyone else, but I personally thought the changes to artillery did the complete opposite of what we were asking for prior to their change, and now, they are even worse than the way they were before the change. The stun mechanic was, and still is, a complete disaster, I'd also like to add. 

 

They fire more often, have a better splash radius, aim faster, can STUN you (for a while too, some of them), and are more accurate than they were before the change. The alpha damage and penetration changes were way too insignificant to consider this a "rebalance" or "nerf" to artillery. Now, every game that I have with artillery in-play, I find myself wanting to scream at the screen, because not only am I getting hit by a tank I cannot hit back, it has been hitting me more often, more reliably, and making my tank 25% worse in every way for 10+ seconds.

 

I tried to deal with these changes when they came in and I tried to give it all a chance, but I've finally grown sick of it, and I'm || <- this close to quitting the game over it, because it is so incredibly INFURIATING that WarGaming buffed the one class of vehicle in their game that needed a serious nerf, complete re-work, or complete removal from the game. I used to be an avid player, now I find it painful to get in my favorite tanks and go play games, because I know artillery is going to ruin my fun when I get into a game, regardless of my tank type. I want to play this game like I used to, and I want to like it like I used to, but these artillery changes are one of the main reasons why I rarely get any enjoyment out of this game.

 

How would I fix this? I'm no expert or developer, but I would recommend this: Revert artillery back to the way it was prior to the change(i.e, a bit less accurate,a bit less splash radius, a bit slower to reload, high alpha, AND NO FLIPPIN' STUN), keep the same lower penetration values that were changed, but keep the ammunition to only high explosive. I believe this would still keep artillery somewhat usable, while not removing it from the game and shafting the people who play artillery. WarGaming, you will have a happier, healthier player base if you either A: nerf artillery as a whole and remove the "stun" mechanic, or B: Find another way for artillery to be effective in a battle, and get rid of the whole "stun" mechanic.

 

Let me know what you think below. Also, don't be a forum warrior and start making fun of me, or ANYONE else, for their opinions on this thread. If I see you're going to make fun of me or someone else, I'll report your comment. I am open to constructive criticism, and discussion. I want to hear everyone's opinions on the current state of artillery, and whether they agree with me on this or not. Maybe this thread will one day catch the eye of a developer. Thanks

 

To the OP, you did a good job explaining your position and I can agree with most of it, BUT these threads are so tiresome. That's why I loved GS-G3K's meme so much!

 

edit. sorry for not using multi quote, i'll remember that it the future. :)


Edited by Zombie_Snuggles, Dec 23 2018 - 02:49.


EmperorJuliusCaesar #26 Posted Dec 23 2018 - 03:29

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View PostThePwnageMachine, on Dec 21 2018 - 02:39, said:

Before I start ranting about artillery, let me clarify something. I am FULLY aware, that there are hundreds of threads talking about how artillery needs to be re-done, and threads where people complain about artillery. I am also aware that my voice most likely will not be heard, but please, just hear me out.

 

I don't know about everyone else, but I personally thought the changes to artillery did the complete opposite of what we were asking for prior to their change, and now, they are even worse than the way they were before the change. The stun mechanic was, and still is, a complete disaster, I'd also like to add. 

 

They fire more often, have a better splash radius, aim faster, can STUN you (for a while too, some of them), and are more accurate than they were before the change. The alpha damage and penetration changes were way too insignificant to consider this a "rebalance" or "nerf" to artillery. Now, every game that I have with artillery in-play, I find myself wanting to scream at the screen, because not only am I getting hit by a tank I cannot hit back, it has been hitting me more often, more reliably, and making my tank 25% worse in every way for 10+ seconds.

 

I tried to deal with these changes when they came in and I tried to give it all a chance, but I've finally grown sick of it, and I'm || <- this close to quitting the game over it, because it is so incredibly INFURIATING that WarGaming buffed the one class of vehicle in their game that needed a serious nerf, complete re-work, or complete removal from the game. I used to be an avid player, now I find it painful to get in my favorite tanks and go play games, because I know artillery is going to ruin my fun when I get into a game, regardless of my tank type. I want to play this game like I used to, and I want to like it like I used to, but these artillery changes are one of the main reasons why I rarely get any enjoyment out of this game.

 

How would I fix this? I'm no expert or developer, but I would recommend this: Revert artillery back to the way it was prior to the change(i.e, a bit less accurate,a bit less splash radius, a bit slower to reload, high alpha, AND NO FLIPPIN' STUN), keep the same lower penetration values that were changed, but keep the ammunition to only high explosive. I believe this would still keep artillery somewhat usable, while not removing it from the game and shafting the people who play artillery. WarGaming, you will have a happier, healthier player base if you either A: nerf artillery as a whole and remove the "stun" mechanic, or B: Find another way for artillery to be effective in a battle, and get rid of the whole "stun" mechanic.

 

Let me know what you think below. Also, don't be a forum warrior and start making fun of me, or ANYONE else, for their opinions on this thread. If I see you're going to make fun of me or someone else, I'll report your comment. I am open to constructive criticism, and discussion. I want to hear everyone's opinions on the current state of artillery, and whether they agree with me on this or not. Maybe this thread will one day catch the eye of a developer. Thanks

 

Make sure you remember who is to "thank" for these changes.  Arty players never asked for them, the arty whiners demanded them.  Be sure you give them a big "thank you" for these changes. 

 

"complete opposite of what we were asking for prior to their change"

 

You can't take away arties main way of earning XP and credits and not have a method of them earning it in another way. 

 

"WarGaming buffed the one class of vehicle in their game that needed a serious nerf"

 

IN YOUR OPINION.  Remember, arty didn't ask for these changes, arty whiners did.

 

"or complete removal from the game"

 

Arty has been here from the start and WG keeps telling the arty whiners that arty will never be removed.

 

"WarGaming, you will have a happier, healthier player base"

 

Considering every poll shows that the majority of players enjoy the game with arty, where's your proof for this statement???

 

There are already many threads on arty, why start yet another new one?  The develops know that a minority of players dislike arty but they know that the majority enjoys the game with arty, and understand that arty is integral to the game.

 

I have only 10% of my games in arty, and FAR less since the nerf.  So I don't play it much, but I prefer the matches to have 3 arty in the game.  Without arty, matches are dull, boring, and VERY predictable.

 

INB4 someone shows my overall stats to try to claim "I'm not good, that's why I like arty".....I'll post my green recents that show I'm nearly double server average of 800-850.  Whomever tries will only look the fool.



EmperorJuliusCaesar #27 Posted Dec 23 2018 - 03:38

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View PostYANKEE137, on Dec 21 2018 - 02:44, said:

One thing they could easily change would be to remove mandatory arty missions.  Many do not want to play them anyway. It adds to the arty pop on the servers at any given time.

 

I doubt they will and I hope they don't, 3 per battle please :-)



EmperorJuliusCaesar #28 Posted Dec 23 2018 - 03:40

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View PostThePwnageMachine, on Dec 21 2018 - 02:45, said:

View PostJohnnyBlazin, on Dec 20 2018 - 14:43, said:

TL;DR yet ANOTHER arty whining thread

 

The day they listen to us and make changes, is the day you won't have to hear us whine about artillery.

 

They did make changes, and people still whine about it.  Those people will never be happy unless it's removed, something WG has stated MANY times will never happen.



EmperorJuliusCaesar #29 Posted Dec 23 2018 - 03:55

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View PostEdibleEmpire, on Dec 23 2018 - 07:49, said:

View PostZiggen, on Dec 20 2018 - 16:08, said:

You make it sound like arty always hits you every second of the battle every battle. Paranoid? 30 sec reloads and their is 14 other tanks besides you. Geeze. always whiners. Take away arty then you will complain about TDs?

 

They attract a similar type of player in pubs. Arty is fine in any organized play. It should have never been allowed in pbu matches.

 

" It should have never been allowed in pbu matches."

 

IN YOUR OPINION. 

 

Pubs is where you grind arty and arty crew skills to be used in organized play.



shinglefoot #30 Posted Dec 23 2018 - 08:29

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View PostEdibleEmpire, on Dec 22 2018 - 20:57, said:

 

Or maybe they can remove it. You seem to have no problem with tanks getting removed and other things being rebalanced. Why would this be any different? 

 

     They aren't removing it...but I personally am enjoying arty whiner thread number 11 472 455 089. If we can just have another 4 or 5 million of them something will be done.

 

Whiner logic...



Cargo_Joe #31 Posted Dec 23 2018 - 15:10

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View PostThePwnageMachine, on Dec 20 2018 - 14:39, said:

Before I start ranting about artillery, let me clarify something. I am FULLY aware, that there are hundreds of threads talking about how artillery needs to be re-done, and threads where people complain about artillery. I am also aware that my voice most likely will not be heard, but please, just hear me out.

 

I don't know about everyone else, but I personally thought the changes to artillery did the complete opposite of what we were asking for prior to their change, and now, they are even worse than the way they were before the change. The stun mechanic was, and still is, a complete disaster, I'd also like to add. 

 

They fire more often, have a better splash radius, aim faster, can STUN you (for a while too, some of them), and are more accurate than they were before the change. The alpha damage and penetration changes were way too insignificant to consider this a "rebalance" or "nerf" to artillery. Now, every game that I have with artillery in-play, I find myself wanting to scream at the screen, because not only am I getting hit by a tank I cannot hit back, it has been hitting me more often, more reliably, and making my tank 25% worse in every way for 10+ seconds.

 

I tried to deal with these changes when they came in and I tried to give it all a chance, but I've finally grown sick of it, and I'm || <- this close to quitting the game over it, because it is so incredibly INFURIATING that WarGaming buffed the one class of vehicle in their game that needed a serious nerf, complete re-work, or complete removal from the game. I used to be an avid player, now I find it painful to get in my favorite tanks and go play games, because I know artillery is going to ruin my fun when I get into a game, regardless of my tank type. I want to play this game like I used to, and I want to like it like I used to, but these artillery changes are one of the main reasons why I rarely get any enjoyment out of this game.

 

How would I fix this? I'm no expert or developer, but I would recommend this: Revert artillery back to the way it was prior to the change(i.e, a bit less accurate,a bit less splash radius, a bit slower to reload, high alpha, AND NO FLIPPIN' STUN), keep the same lower penetration values that were changed, but keep the ammunition to only high explosive. I believe this would still keep artillery somewhat usable, while not removing it from the game and shafting the people who play artillery. WarGaming, you will have a happier, healthier player base if you either A: nerf artillery as a whole and remove the "stun" mechanic, or B: Find another way for artillery to be effective in a battle, and get rid of the whole "stun" mechanic.

 

Let me know what you think below. Also, don't be a forum warrior and start making fun of me, or ANYONE else, for their opinions on this thread. If I see you're going to make fun of me or someone else, I'll report your comment. I am open to constructive criticism, and discussion. I want to hear everyone's opinions on the current state of artillery, and whether they agree with me on this or not. Maybe this thread will one day catch the eye of a developer. Thanks

 

True enough.The designers were concerned about camping but, as we all know, current artillery encourages camping. The artillery used during the WOT period of history fired barages at a vector on a map.  Perhaps artillery shold be able to fire at a vector (say E5) without actually "seeing" the tank.  

suntzu50 #32 Posted Dec 23 2018 - 16:01

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All the arty loving players will come out and say it's you, you need to play better, keeping moving ect and on and on. I ask for only one thing. Let me check a box saying no arty. Just like we do with other battles. And we will see who plays and who waits. If all the arty lovers that post here over and over again are right.  Than i will have to find a new game to play. But i really think i will not be the one looking.

mackinawjim45 #33 Posted Dec 23 2018 - 16:07

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I dunno, after 7 years arty is just part of the battle to me. I'm always looking for arty cover.

 

Hell, I'll be hiding from arty when I realize there is no arty...



Brave18 #34 Posted Dec 23 2018 - 16:17

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I'm not trying too sound arrogant but I would like to think im one of the better Arty Players in the game and I believe that Stun should be done away with Period!!! But also no other changes to Arty Period!!!

xxBigbacon #35 Posted Dec 23 2018 - 16:30

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crycrycrycry all day long......

 

its never getting removed. its not getting nerfed. 



BillT #36 Posted Dec 23 2018 - 16:30

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View PostYANKEE137, on Dec 20 2018 - 14:41, said:

And just like that, things were back to normal and no one ever complained about the IS-3A again.

 


:D

Nicely done!



I_QQ_4_U #37 Posted Dec 23 2018 - 16:51

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Reload times were at most changed by about 10% for the majority of SPG's, in some cases they were increased, so they really are not firing all that more often, maybe one shell per game. Accuracy was barely changed, I checked VB Addict a year after the change and hit rates were pretty much the same as they were pre 9.18. 

 

A 50% reduction in pen and alpha isn't significant???

 

The only major buffs they got were in aim times and bloom from movement. Splash helped those that already had a pretty good splash radius already, still see lots of near misses with French and British SPG's(tier 7 and 8 anyway) that often do nothing.

 

As for stun I really don't know what all the whining is about, it's not something I find that effects me all that often. The vast majority of the time I can just back off and let it go away, if I HAVE to get rid of it asap the vast majority of the time I can.

 

Either way I couldn't care less if they removed stun or not, it doesn't do much for me when I play SPG's and it doesn't effect me most of the time when I'm not.

 

If they were to revert it back to pre 9.18 you'd still see the same whining, likely more of it. The lack of AP shells made almost zero difference to me as I rarely used them, SPG's are far too inaccuracy to risk wasting money on a near miss that does nothing at all..



BillT #38 Posted Dec 23 2018 - 17:06

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View Postcloudwalkr, on Dec 20 2018 - 15:42, said:

I'd 100% agree to go back to arty pre-stun mechanic.  Now, people still hide behind those building and rocks you talk about...but can be stunned all game because of arty reload and the fact it takes so long for kits to go off cooldown.  I've had many matches where I'm stunned literally all game and by the time the match is over I'm so frustrated I could do bodily harm to someone.  I was never that frustrated when I got one shot.

 

Anyone with half a clue could see that arty stun was going to be a glorified griefing mechanic - and I've had many players confirm that that's exactly what they do in it...find the high rated players and spam them all game.  I'd rather be one shot and move on to the next match.

 

 

I wouldn't oppose a return to pre-9.18 arty.  I certainly agree that the increased ROF, increased burst radius, and stun have made arty no more effective, but far more annoying.  And I think SPGs were more challenging to play pre-9.18.  It was certainly much more fun when my SPG could actually hurt super-heavy tanks or kill a light tank trying to overrun me.

Re: perma-stunning.  Yesterday I had a match where I'm sure 4 or 5 enemy tanks felt like you describe.  I was the only SPG on my team; the map was airfield. I spawned west and set up around G1, where I could fire down the alley at E6-E7, where the heavies like to brawl.  Normally I'll put a shot or two in there and the enemy heavies will adapt, pulling back around the hills to positions I can't hit and forcing me to look for other targets.  But not yesterday.  Four or five tanks insisted on sitting in that corridor.  I think I fired seven or eight rounds in a row in there, every shot damaging at least 2 enemies and often stunning 3.  So yeah, I kept those guys "perma-stunned" constantly for most of the game.  They just never learned.  They could have backed around behind the hills (at least until I lost interest), or swung around the north flank of the hill where I'd have no shots,  or pushed hard and advanced into the shadow of the hills where I could no longer bother them.  People always do one of those things, and trust me, it doesn't always cost them the match.  But these guys just sat there like deer in headlights.  They probably thought  I was griefing them by focusing on them all game. I think they were dumb as rocks.

 

Don't be those guys.  

 

If you're "literally being stunned all game", that's as much your fault as the SPGs.  In Cloudwalker's case I have to grant some slack: with his stats, XVM snipers might chase him all game even if he's not making himself an easy, obvious target.   But for average and worse players, I stand behind this statement.  If arty focuses on you (especially if two or more focus on you) for several minutes on end, and you don't move from that spot, you deserve to be perma-stunned.  To end that streak all you have to do is disappear for 45 seconds or so, until  the arty gets impatient and finds another target.  And if you're on a map like Prokhorovka where you can't just back up and hide, then your mistake was making yourself the single best, most obvious target.  You pushed ahead of your team,or sat somewhere easy to spot and refused to move.



BillT #39 Posted Dec 23 2018 - 17:29

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View PostThePwnageMachine, on Dec 20 2018 - 14:39, said:

Before I start ranting about artillery, let me clarify something. I am FULLY aware, that there are hundreds of threads talking about how artillery needs to be re-done, and threads where people complain about artillery. I am also aware that my voice most likely will not be heard, but please, just hear me out.

 

How would I fix this? I'm no expert or developer, but I would recommend this: Revert artillery back to the way it was prior to the change(i.e, a bit less accurate,a bit less splash radius, a bit slower to reload, high alpha, AND NO FLIPPIN' STUN), keep the same lower penetration values that were changed, but keep the ammunition to only high explosive. I believe this would still keep artillery somewhat usable, while not removing it from the game and shafting the people who play artillery. WarGaming, you will have a happier, healthier player base if you either A: nerf artillery as a whole and remove the "stun" mechanic, or B: Find another way for artillery to be effective in a battle, and get rid of the whole "stun" mechanic.

 

Let me know what you think below. Also, don't be a forum warrior and start making fun of me, or ANYONE else, for their opinions on this thread. If I see you're going to make fun of me or someone else, I'll report your comment. I am open to constructive criticism, and discussion. I want to hear everyone's opinions on the current state of artillery, and whether they agree with me on this or not. Maybe this thread will one day catch the eye of a developer. Thanks

 

OP, I try not to complain when someone posts an occasional complaint/rant against arty.  It's fine to want something changed because you don't like it.  I only get nasty when someone complains over and over and over again, when they insult players who disagree with them, when they flatly demand the removal of SPGs, or when they try to present their opinions as undeniable fact, and you did none of those. 

 

I'd be fine reverting to pre-9.18.  9.18 was absolutely a nerf to arty... but even though it made SPGs less effective (look at overall win rates), 9.18 made them more annoying because they hit more people, more often.  I'd also be fine with reducing SPGs to 2 or even 1 per match, so long as you can guarantee I won't suffer long queue times when I want to play my SPGs.  And I would heartily welcome any change that gives artillery more ways to contribute (e.g., illumination rounds or smoke) and which make the class more challenging to play.

 

Do keep in mind that artillery doesn't need an actual nerf.  It is not overpowered.  It's not like a Defender, which boosts everyone's win rate by 5%.  You don't lose the game just because the other team has a unicum arty player; in fact, that's the best place for an opposing unicum to be, from your point of view, because in a different class he'd be more dangerous.  Of all classes, arty has the least influence on win rate, the least ability to carry.  So making it weaker is not viable.  But WG could make it less annoying (by trading stun and burst for pen and damage) and more demanding to play, and that would probably make us both happy.



EmperorJuliusCaesar #40 Posted Dec 23 2018 - 19:03

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View Postsuntzu50, on Dec 23 2018 - 22:01, said:

All the arty loving players will come out and say it's you, you need to play better, keeping moving ect and on and on. I ask for only one thing. Let me check a box saying no arty. Just like we do with other battles. And we will see who plays and who waits. If all the arty lovers that post here over and over again are right.  Than i will have to find a new game to play. But i really think i will not be the one looking.

 

WG has stated many times they will never do that.  If you don't like arty, they made WoT Blitz just for people like you.







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