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Seditious #261 Posted Jan 06 2019 - 22:18

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View PostBurning_Haggis, on Jan 06 2019 - 01:46, said:

Wheeled veh are coming.    Arty will have some "friends" from the enemy team keeping them on their toes.   Going to be the arty nerf we always wanted.

 

Was thinking about this this morning.  I went 8 for 8 this morning, I should be thrilled right?  Not so much, three arty in every single match.  I wasn't always singled out, but someone was.  It has become worse than the 3-5-7 trying to drive a tier 8.  Really not that fun, so I logged out.

 

And so I was thinking this morning, there is no rule against encouraging the lights on my team at the start of a game to make a run at the enemy arty, especially if I'm in a light.  Could be a quick trip back to the garage, but might be a quick trip back to the garage for the arty.  I mean, after all, fast lights are a mechanic that have been in the game since the beginning.  Fast lights function exactly as the devs intended them too.  Only the hurr durr arty mains are going to gripe about suggesting it cuz 'I wantz to clik purplz moar!'.  Anyway, how can it be griefing if it's part of the game right?  Certainly there is no other game or game mode where I can yolo into arty.

 

Sportsmanship?  Seriously?  I should think deleting the indirect fire 'mode' from a match early would result in a far better tanking experience for all remaining players.  Besides, how is it not team play to delete or aid in the deleting of such important segments of the enemy team make up?  Why are you playing them if they are not important?  This would almost be a public service.

 

Now, yes, that is all kind of tongue in cheek.  Kind of.  There a re a few non-full-time-trolls here who could be introspective of the idea.  What if, as a player base, we took it upon ourselves to do the responsible thing and limit the PvE aspect that is wedged into this PvP game?  No Tk's, just playing the game within the rules the devs have laid out and using it to promote PvP play.  No toxicity, just do your job and move on in the match.  Let your tanks guns be your voice.

 

Play responsibly.



BillT #262 Posted Jan 07 2019 - 16:17

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View PostSeditious, on Jan 06 2019 - 16:18, said:

And so I was thinking this morning, there is no rule against encouraging the lights on my team at the start of a game to make a run at the enemy arty, especially if I'm in a light.  Could be a quick trip back to the garage, but might be a quick trip back to the garage for the arty.  I mean, after all, fast lights are a mechanic that have been in the game since the beginning.  Fast lights function exactly as the devs intended them too.  Only the hurr durr arty mains are going to gripe about suggesting it cuz 'I wantz to clik purplz moar!'.  Anyway, how can it be griefing if it's part of the game right?  Certainly there is no other game or game mode where I can yolo into arty.

 

Sportsmanship?  Seriously?  I should think deleting the indirect fire 'mode' from a match early would result in a far better tanking experience for all remaining players.  Besides, how is it not team play to delete or aid in the deleting of such important segments of the enemy team make up?  Why are you playing them if they are not important?  This would almost be a public service.

 

Now, yes, that is all kind of tongue in cheek.  Kind of.  There a re a few non-full-time-trolls here who could be introspective of the idea.  What if, as a player base, we took it upon ourselves to do the responsible thing and limit the PvE aspect that is wedged into this PvP game?  No Tk's, just playing the game within the rules the devs have laid out and using it to promote PvP play.  No toxicity, just do your job and move on in the match.  Let your tanks guns be your voice.

 

 

You are certainly free to use light tanks (and armored cars) that way, and to try to encourage your teammates to join you.  I see nothing "unsporting" about it. 

 

As to whether it's griefing... I stand by my opinion that griefing is mostly in the head of the aggrieved person.  I think most griefing claims are false; the enemy is trying to crush you, but he's not doing it just so you don't have any fun, and you just assume he's griefing because you're frustrated.  But if you start kamikaze'ing SPGs with the goal of ruining their fun so they'll quit playing the class, then by your own definition you are griefing.  So there's a certain hypocrisy there for your conscience to deal with.

 

I think, though, that it won't work for light tanks.  If you do it  right away, all the enemy tanks will still be near their base, so they can turn their guns and kill the light tanks -- if not before they get the arty, then soon afterward.  You'd probably have to send two light tanks to be sure of getting to the enemy SPGs, and three lights to have a chance of killing all them.   Trading all your scouts to kill the enemy SPGs is probably not smart, since light tanks have better carry rates than SPGs.  I don't think you'll have much success coaxing other light tank drivers to sacrifice their own games along with you.  You might create some short-term unhappiness for SPG players and schadenfreude for SPG haters, but the tactic is unsustainable.  

 

After all, as soon as this starts to happen frequently, some light tank drivers will say, "No, I'm not going to rush the SPGs.  I'd rather wait for the enemy light tanks to rush our SPGs, so I can kill them."    The more often rushing happens, the more light tank players will want to anti-rush.  And of course other tanks will learn to be ready for the charge of the light brigade, too.

 

For armored cars it might work better, because they're so fast and so resistant to immobilization and terrain damage.   Maybe a single armored car can reliably  get through and kill an SPG with his clip before he's destroyed; maybe two of them in concert  can kill three enemy SPGs, and a 2 for 3 trade is surely a good deal.  I'm not too worried, though; if it becomes a meta for armored cars to kill SPGs before the SPG can even load its first shot, Wargaming will do something about it to keep SPGs playable.  They would do the same if light tanks started succeeding in this tactic. (Some obvious responses: above Tier 3, no more than one light tank or AC per platoon and no more than two or three per match, just like they did with arty.   If that doesn't work,  they'd have to do something like nerf light tanks' top speed, reduce their hit points, make them easier to track, or improve the HP/camo for SPGs.)

 

Bottom line, you're welcome to try it if you don't mind being a griefer by your own definition, but I don't think it will work.



Themuthapak #263 Posted Jan 08 2019 - 19:53

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This was so incredibly easy, this is from less than 10 games.
Spoiler

 



tilt28 #264 Posted Aug 29 2019 - 14:38

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ok well Arty is now in my opinion almost not playable.  been attempting to finish the t55A spg mission where you need top player, 2300 hp of assistance primary condition now for completion with honors you need 3000 hp of damage and of course to win the game. I have been playing Arty consistently for a long time trying to complete with honors, have completed the primary conditions but it still shows as not complete need to finish with honors. Now with the poor accuracy, low damage cannot get close to what is stated as average damage being playing the G W Tiger P and G W Tiger tried directives and what ever else i can to improve load times and accuracy but no go. tried other Arty same issues slow load times, no damage and poor accuracy. you can't run improved equipment like vents as the arties are open the su-14-2 is closed which you can run improved equipment but still long load times and poor accuracy with again no damage again not even getting close to posted average damage per shot. I believe the arty could be an asset to the game the wheeled tanks have made it  a completely different game now fix the arties so they are at least able to compete shorten load times, allow more damage and improve accuracy. just my opinion .

read_these_nikes #265 Posted Aug 29 2019 - 14:43

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have u tried m53/m55?

hardicon #266 Posted Aug 29 2019 - 14:46

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View PostEdibleEmpire, on Dec 23 2018 - 01:49, said:

 

They attract a similar type of player in pubs. Arty is fine in any organized play. It should have never been allowed in pbu matches.

I could agree with that if they took gold rounds out of pub matches.  Gold rounds should only be in organized play.  As long as they are in the game in their current broken state, I will play nothing but arty.  combat one broken mechanic with another one.  I will also only target those clans that i know are gold spamming all the time, they know who they are.



EmperorJuliusCaesar #267 Posted Aug 30 2019 - 06:19

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View PostShortcult, on Jan 02 2019 - 05:17, said:

View PostBillT, on Jan 01 2019 - 10:29, said:

 

It depends how you're setting up the opt-out system.  Here's what I picture.   If you opt out, you ONLY get matched with other players who opt out.  It's a completely separate queue.  So if only 10% of players opt out, you'll have long queue times.  Have you thought through the details of your proposal?  The devil's in the details.

 

For instance, can you opt out for one game, and then opt back in for the next one?  Or do you want something like Shortcult's proposal where you can't opt out if you have an SPG in your garage, and to change your option you  have to play 100 games before the change goes into effect?

 

 

No.  What you're asking for is arty-free play.  If the opt-out queue doesn't give you that (because it makes you spend 3-5 minutes waiting for a match), you're not going to be satisfied.

 

 

There's a third position you've omitted: maybe a lot of players want this change, but it ends up killing the game if they get it.  People often want things that are't good for them.  WG has always said that arty has an important function in the game; they've bet millions of dollars on the belief that  the game would be less fun, and less successful, if it were removed.  And so far their strategy has succeeded

 

 

I can never recall having said 100 games, I should think ten would do the trick.  That would slow people from abusing the system.  The point could be made that it would increase people YOLOing, but the number can be adjusted.

 

Recently saw a suggestion (no idea who to give credit to) that arty free mode should be a box next to Assault, Grands and Encounter in settings.  Just like those modes it would not be guaranteed all the time, Match Maker would just try to arrange arty free matches more often for those with that box checked.  I would add to it, if you have arty in the garage, you cannot select the box.  It gives MM more flexibility to make matches then.  Maybe a middle ground.

 

WG keeps telling the arty whiners that this will NEVER happen.  They're making BILLIONS and have a game that has lasted FAR longer than most games.  Clearly what they're doing works.....and works well.







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