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EdibleEmpire #41 Posted Dec 23 2018 - 19:20

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View PostEmperorJuliusCaesar, on Dec 23 2018 - 13:03, said:

 

WG has stated many times they will never do that.  If you don't like arty, they made WoT Blitz just for people like you.

 

They also stated they wouldn't sell the Mutant again and well... here we are. 

Kerosedge #42 Posted Dec 23 2018 - 20:21

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I'd punish all arty cryers.

 

One team all massive turret tanks.... IS7s, T34s, STIs, Defenders, Centurions, T30s, 60TP....

 

Against

 

Panthers, Panteras, Conways, Progettos, E100s, TVPs, Lepoards, guerilla 15s....

 

Then listen to you b**ch and cry about OP turrets nerf them. Hull down too OP, HE too weak buff HE.



Seditious #43 Posted Dec 23 2018 - 21:29

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I agree that indirect fire should only exist in organized play, not in pubs.  We see, even in this post, people lining up to say they will continue to play arty with the single intention of ruing game play for others, that's griefing folks.  Before you start with "But I never...", I didn't say it was you.  You cannot deny however that there is a portion of the WoT population that specifically plays arty with griefing in mind.  Kind of hard to imagine you can get away with that same griefing intent in organized play.  Are there a lot of callers recruiting for griefing?  I prefer to think they are looking for the right tool to win matches.  Maybe I'm wrong.

 

In organized play, stun is a tool.  I wouldn't remove that from the tool box.  It's toxic in randoms tho.  Should there then be two kinds of arty?  One for organized play that is similar to what we have now and one for pubs that has no stun, no overhead view and significantly more damage?  Dunno, when something isn't working however, you try new solutions.

 

Before the arty-philic mess themselves, I am not reproaching players, I am reproaching a class of tanks that does not play by the same rules in pubs.  I suppose if you identify as an arty player, this would seem personal.  I would say turn the computer off and get out more, identifying as a class in a video game is proly not good for your long term health.  Or maybe, get over yourself and start to think about how to make the game better for more than just yourself.  For clarity, if you play arty, even exclusively, that does not mean you have to identify as arty player, perhaps you are just a gamer who enjoys arty.  Choose your own label.

 

I should add, I would only support removing arty from Randoms, I would in fact leave it in Frontline, Ranked, Skirmishes, CW etc.  I realize Ranked and Frontline are really random, but Frontline makes life difficult in arty already and Ranked (theoretically) should separate the arty players till only the most team supportive are available in the top matches.  I would lose them from Grands for sure.



xxBigbacon #44 Posted Dec 23 2018 - 22:05

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View PostSeditious, on Dec 23 2018 - 21:29, said:

I agree that indirect fire should only exist in organized play, not in pubs.  We see, even in this post, people lining up to say they will continue to play arty with the single intention of ruing game play for others, that's griefing folks. 

 

explain.....I mean. how is it griefing if that is the mechanic of the game? 



I_QQ_4_U #45 Posted Dec 24 2018 - 02:12

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View PostxxBigbacon, on Dec 23 2018 - 22:05, said:

 

explain.....I mean. how is it griefing if that is the mechanic of the game? 

 

It's not, it's a moronic argument, my intention in every single game I play, regardless of tank, is to ruin the games of the opposing teams.

EmperorJuliusCaesar #46 Posted Dec 24 2018 - 02:43

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View PostEdibleEmpire, on Dec 24 2018 - 01:20, said:

View PostEmperorJuliusCaesar, on Dec 23 2018 - 13:03, said:

 

WG has stated many times they will never do that.  If you don't like arty, they made WoT Blitz just for people like you.

 

They also stated they wouldn't sell the Mutant again and well... here we are. 

 

That's like comparing apples and oranges.  Giving access to a tank that is rarely played and most that had it no longer play.  I'm sure they looked at that data.

That's nothing like removing an entire class that's been here from the start and that much of the game was designed around/with. 



Seditious #47 Posted Dec 24 2018 - 02:53

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View PostxxBigbacon, on Dec 23 2018 - 22:05, said:

 

explain.....I mean. how is it griefing if that is the mechanic of the game? 

 

Is that as far as you read?  The very next line seems pertinent to you.  Just because you don't use the tool that way, does not mean others do not.  You regularly get people who respond to any thread that might be viewed as anti arty who say they will then play more arty to farm the tears.  I cannot see any other way to take that then as griefing.  Perhaps I missed the thread where players were claiming to play the poop barn to farm tears, or the death star or even Jagzilla.  I think the next nearest comparison would be seal clubbing, although the goal is different so maybe that analogy just falls down.  As a parallel, all the posts about using wheelies to terrorize arty...yeah, that's intended griefing.  We'll see how it works out.

Seditious #48 Posted Dec 24 2018 - 03:01

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View PostI_QQ_4_U, on Dec 24 2018 - 02:12, said:

 

It's not, it's a moronic argument, my intention in every single game I play, regardless of tank, is to ruin the games of the opposing teams.

 

By winning I presume?  Kinda far fetched to assume one side winning ruins the other sides experience.  Else why would they compete?  I should think the competition is in fact where the enjoyment of the experience lies.  I suppose there are those who view losing as the single greatest sadness in life.  For them then you are right and good show putting them in their place.

 

I have seen posts by folks who claim to play arty only to CB, aren't they in fact griefing other arty players?  The point I am not making well is that arty is the easiest tool in the box to use to grief other players.  Playing arty does not make you a bad player, but there are a lot of bad players attracted to it because they can use it in that manner.  To deny that is short sighted, nearing blind as a matter of fact.



EmperorJuliusCaesar #49 Posted Dec 24 2018 - 03:07

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View PostSeditious, on Dec 24 2018 - 03:29, said:

I agree that indirect fire should only exist in organized play, not in pubs.  We see, even in this post, people lining up to say they will continue to play arty with the single intention of ruing game play for others, that's griefing folks.  Before you start with "But I never...", I didn't say it was you.  You cannot deny however that there is a portion of the WoT population that specifically plays arty with griefing in mind.  Kind of hard to imagine you can get away with that same griefing intent in organized play.  Are there a lot of callers recruiting for griefing?  I prefer to think they are looking for the right tool to win matches.  Maybe I'm wrong.

 

In organized play, stun is a tool.  I wouldn't remove that from the tool box.  It's toxic in randoms tho.  Should there then be two kinds of arty?  One for organized play that is similar to what we have now and one for pubs that has no stun, no overhead view and significantly more damage?  Dunno, when something isn't working however, you try new solutions.

 

Before the arty-philic mess themselves, I am not reproaching players, I am reproaching a class of tanks that does not play by the same rules in pubs.  I suppose if you identify as an arty player, this would seem personal.  I would say turn the computer off and get out more, identifying as a class in a video game is proly not good for your long term health.  Or maybe, get over yourself and start to think about how to make the game better for more than just yourself.  For clarity, if you play arty, even exclusively, that does not mean you have to identify as arty player, perhaps you are just a gamer who enjoys arty.  Choose your own label.

 

I should add, I would only support removing arty from Randoms, I would in fact leave it in Frontline, Ranked, Skirmishes, CW etc.  I realize Ranked and Frontline are really random, but Frontline makes life difficult in arty already and Ranked (theoretically) should separate the arty players till only the most team supportive are available in the top matches.  I would lose them from Grands for sure.

 

Indirect fire has ALWAYS been a part of pubs, it's where people grind up lines, train up crews, practice hitting different areas of the maps from different spots, get used to supporting a team in the best way, etc.

It's always going to be a part of WoT, WG has stated so MANY times.

 

"people lining up to say they will continue to play arty with the single intention of ruing game play for others, that's griefing folks"

 

No, that's the goal in EVERY tank.

 

"Are there a lot of callers recruiting for griefing?"

 

Every CW team should have an arty that has all improved equipment and spamming the prem, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER TANK.

 

"In organized play, stun is a tool."

 

It's also a tool for teamwork in pubs, this IS a team game.  It's not used to the best effect due to lack of communication, but for those that know how to use it, it can aid the team or be taken advantage of by alert teammates.

 

"when something isn't working however, you try new solutions"

 

Arty is working well, exactly as designed and intended, so there's no need to "try new solutions".  Arty whiners want to dumb down/change the game instead of adapting to it when they have a solutions for tanking without arty, it's called WoT Blitz, made especially for those that don't like/can't handle/can't adapt to arty.

 

"does not play by the same rules in pubs"

 

It plays by the same rules it has always had, as DESIGNED AND INTENDED.  This isn't a simple shoot em up game, you gotta think in 3D.

 

"I suppose if you identify as an arty player, this would seem personal."

 

I have 10% of overall battles in arty, 5% since 9.18 arty nerf and the wife quit.  I definitely don't identify as an arty player, but it is VERY offensive when those that are the vocal minority of the game, the arty whiners keep demanding that they game that I love, that they CHOSE to play and continue to CHOOSE to play KNOWING full well it has arty, demand that it be removed/nerfed to the point it's useless.

I love arty in this game, without it in matches the battles are dull, boring and VERY predictable, that's NOT fun.  3 per battle is just fine. 

 

If you want to attempt to say I like it because I'm not a good player, I'm not at the front getting spotted......try it, I'm in the top 11% of all players this month, clearly I'm at the front, helping my teams.  I know how to avoid/limit getting hit for big damage and ENJOY THE CHALLENGE......not try to remove the challenge to make it easier, that's just stupid and LAZY.

 

"get over yourself and start to think about how to make the game better for more than just yourself"

 

Or maybe arty whiners need to get over themselves and realize they are the minority and the game shouldn't be dumbed down to cater to their lack of ability to adapt.

 

"I would only support removing arty from Randoms"

 

Well that's you, the MAJORITY enjoys the game just fine with arty in it.  Sorry you can't steamroll in the manner you'd like.  That's just tough, that's NOT how the game was designed.

 

"I would lose them from Grands for sure."

 

Well, thankfully WG is in charge and not the arty whiners.

 

 

Phew, now, having said all that, I think I'll take out my ConqGC with my improved equipment and spam some prem.  I get sick of these whiny posts and playing the ConqGC is a good way to blow off some steam.  And no, I will not do counter battery.  Clearly people need more practice playing with arty in the game so they can adapt.  When the whining stops, perhaps I'll do counter battery, not until then. 



EmperorJuliusCaesar #50 Posted Dec 24 2018 - 03:24

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View PostSeditious, on Dec 24 2018 - 08:53, said:

View PostxxBigbacon, on Dec 23 2018 - 22:05, said:

 

explain.....I mean. how is it griefing if that is the mechanic of the game? 

 

Is that as far as you read?  The very next line seems pertinent to you.  Just because you don't use the tool that way, does not mean others do not.  You regularly get people who respond to any thread that might be viewed as anti arty who say they will then play more arty to farm the tears.  I cannot see any other way to take that then as griefing.  Perhaps I missed the thread where players were claiming to play the poop barn to farm tears, or the death star or even Jagzilla.  I think the next nearest comparison would be seal clubbing, although the goal is different so maybe that analogy just falls down.  As a parallel, all the posts about using wheelies to terrorize arty...yeah, that's intended griefing.  We'll see how it works out.

 

"Just because you don't use the tool that way(griefing), does not mean others do not."

 

Your hatred of arty is blinding you to the TRUTH man.  You can't see it because arty triggers you(which is good, it can make the enemy play worse).

Arty players are not trying to grief you!  Enemy arty are trying to HELP you become a better player, a player that can always adapt to 3 arty in the battle.  Enemy arty are trying to help you get to unicum man!  If unicums can do it, with enough practice so can you!  

 

When they are on your team they are trying to HELP you win that engagement.

 

Man, arty is great, it's sad that so many are blinded by their hatred and shortsightedness.



xxbigbaconSPG #51 Posted Dec 24 2018 - 03:32

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best is when people [edited]becaause arty helped them....I love that.... SO Stupid....

Seditious #52 Posted Dec 24 2018 - 03:40

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View PostEmperorJuliusCaesar, on Dec 24 2018 - 03:07, said:

 

Indirect fire has ALWAYS been a part of pubs, it's where people grind up lines, train up crews, practice hitting different areas of the maps from different spots, get used to supporting a team in the best way, etc.

It's always going to be a part of WoT, WG has stated so MANY times.

 

"people lining up to say they will continue to play arty with the single intention of ruing game play for others, that's griefing folks"

 

No, that's the goal in EVERY tank.

 

"Are there a lot of callers recruiting for griefing?"

 

Every CW team should have an arty that has all improved equipment and spamming the prem, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER TANK.

 

"In organized play, stun is a tool."

 

It's also a tool for teamwork in pubs, this IS a team game.  It's not used to the best effect due to lack of communication, but for those that know how to use it, it can aid the team or be taken advantage of by alert teammates.

 

"when something isn't working however, you try new solutions"

 

Arty is working well, exactly as designed and intended, so there's no need to "try new solutions".  Arty whiners want to dumb down/change the game instead of adapting to it when they have a solutions for tanking without arty, it's called WoT Blitz, made especially for those that don't like/can't handle/can't adapt to arty.

 

"does not play by the same rules in pubs"

 

It plays by the same rules it has always had, as DESIGNED AND INTENDED.  This isn't a simple shoot em up game, you gotta think in 3D.

 

"I suppose if you identify as an arty player, this would seem personal."

 

I have 10% of overall battles in arty, 5% since 9.18 arty nerf and the wife quit.  I definitely don't identify as an arty player, but it is VERY offensive when those that are the vocal minority of the game, the arty whiners keep demanding that they game that I love, that they CHOSE to play and continue to CHOOSE to play KNOWING full well it has arty, demand that it be removed/nerfed to the point it's useless.

I love arty in this game, without it in matches the battles are dull, boring and VERY predictable, that's NOT fun.  3 per battle is just fine. 

 

If you want to attempt to say I like it because I'm not a good player, I'm not at the front getting spotted......try it, I'm in the top 11% of all players this month, clearly I'm at the front, helping my teams.  I know how to avoid/limit getting hit for big damage and ENJOY THE CHALLENGE......not try to remove the challenge to make it easier, that's just stupid and LAZY.

 

"get over yourself and start to think about how to make the game better for more than just yourself"

 

Or maybe arty whiners need to get over themselves and realize they are the minority and the game shouldn't be dumbed down to cater to their lack of ability to adapt.

 

"I would only support removing arty from Randoms"

 

Well that's you, the MAJORITY enjoys the game just fine with arty in it.  Sorry you can't steamroll in the manner you'd like.  That's just tough, that's NOT how the game was designed.

 

"I would lose them from Grands for sure."

 

Well, thankfully WG is in charge and not the arty whiners.

 

 

Phew, now, having said all that, I think I'll take out my ConqGC with my improved equipment and spam some prem.  I get sick of these whiny posts and playing the ConqGC is a good way to blow off some steam.  And no, I will not do counter battery.  Clearly people need more practice playing with arty in the game so they can adapt.  When the whining stops, perhaps I'll do counter battery, not until then. 

 

Did you really need so many words to prove my point?  However, I'm sure the grammatical exercise was good for you.

 

I enjoy team damage, it brings a risk to the game that I enjoy.   A majority of players enjoy the challenge of having to work around that risk.  It has been in the game from the very beginning.  It's working exactly as designed and intended.  Just because a minority of folks (you) want it removed to dumb down the game instead of adapting to it...wait, where have I heard this before?  Isn't there another game that has that too?  Yeah, I know, you won't respond when swinging from your own petard.

 

Your last paragraph is epic, truly.  Thank you, obviously I didn't word it well enough.  You decided to be representative of what I was describing.  I couldn't have asked for better support.

 

Now, lets say they pull arty from randoms.  There would have to be a system in place for people to still grind the arty lines would there not?  Perhaps increased credits and xp from the battles they do participate in.  Perhaps credits and xp available in training.  Either way, you have somehow percieved some kind of anti arty sentiment from my post.  In fact I would like to see the game grow and think arty in it's current form is a limiting factor.  I don't want it removed, it's a useful tool in the right situation.  I don't agree that randoms are a team, it's 1 vs. 29 out there.  You've gone off on this long winded tirade with the apparent presumption that the world is against you.  Sorry, you're not that important.  People disagree with you.  People want other things than you do.  That's life.  Sorry you can't hide from it online.

 

Your apples and oranges comparison, to me, indicates that you have a very selective way of reading what others have written.  I took Edibles statement to mean WG may not be as trustworthy as you hope.  You twisted it into, your wrong this is what I mean.  I don't think at this point you are capable of a reasoned discussion about arty.

 

I eagerly await you parsing out select lines to rail against my perceived opinion, tho I still think you miss my point.



Seditious #53 Posted Dec 24 2018 - 03:43

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View PostEmperorJuliusCaesar, on Dec 24 2018 - 03:24, said:

 

"Just because you don't use the tool that way(griefing), does not mean others do not."

 

Your hatred of arty is blinding you to the TRUTH man.  You can't see it because arty triggers you(which is good, it can make the enemy play worse).

Arty players are not trying to grief you!  Enemy arty are trying to HELP you become a better player, a player that can always adapt to 3 arty in the battle.  Enemy arty are trying to help you get to unicum man!  If unicums can do it, with enough practice so can you!  

 

When they are on your team they are trying to HELP you win that engagement.

 

Man, arty is great, it's sad that so many are blinded by their hatred and shortsightedness.

 

Just in love with your post count huh?

 

My hatred of arty?  So pretty much everyone that does not agree with you hates arty?  You are a monument to yourself.

 

Go play your CGC little griefer, you've shown your true colors here.



Norseskald #54 Posted Dec 24 2018 - 05:31

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View PostQualm, on Dec 20 2018 - 20:42, said:

Well I disagree completely.  As both an arty player and an occasional arty target (in my O-I especially), arty is far better now with the new stun mechanics than old massive damage.

 

Beta players will remember what life used to be like:  everyone hiding behind buildings and rocks for literally 12 solid minutes because the enemy S-51 would eliminate in the blink of an eye anyone spotted who wasn't hiding behind a building or rock.  Only after 12 minutes would battles get started.  Boy those were the days.

 

the worst... getting one hit in a doom turtle...

Norseskald #55 Posted Dec 24 2018 - 05:32

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View PostThePwnageMachine, on Dec 20 2018 - 20:52, said:

Also, let me state something else. I used to be an avid artillery player, and now, I feel filthy when I jump into one, just to complete my missions.

 

i think i like mashing the 2 key the most when i play an spg... makes me feel naughty 

Norseskald #56 Posted Dec 24 2018 - 05:37

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View Postcloudwalkr, on Dec 20 2018 - 21:42, said:

 

As a beta player, I do remember what arty was like....and I agree with OP that it is far worse now than ever before with the stun mechanic.  In the past, if arty fired at you and missed...you were fine.  If they hit you, you were back in the garage mildly frustrated.  Now...well, now I get to sit in cover taking arty splash every 25sec keeping me perma stunned all game.  And please, don't tell me to learn to dodge arty or to learn to get arty safe....because that's a joke in and of itself.  

 

I'd 100% agree to go back to arty pre-stun mechanic.  Now, people still hide behind those building and rocks you talk about...but can be stunned all game because of arty reload and the fact it takes so long for kits to go off cooldown.  I've had many matches where I'm stunned literally all game and by the time the match is over I'm so frustrated I could do bodily harm to someone.  I was never that frustrated when I got one shot.

 

The actual "solution" to arty in my opinion is remove stun, give some of them a little higher alpha dmg, limit arty to 1 per side per game, remove player stats from public games (because XVM focus is a legit cancer to this game, please don't even try and tell me it's not).  The arty stun mechanic is one of, if not the worst, mechanics in the game.  Instead of ending your match, now you get griefed literally all game if you're anywhere near a good player. 

 

Anyone with half a clue could see that arty stun was going to be a glorified griefing mechanic - and I've had many players confirm that that's exactly what they do in it...find the high rated players and spam them all game.  I'd rather be one shot and move on to the next match.

 

 

 

i use xvm, but really dont target "good" players, heres who i target people in clans that are filled with [edited]pickles, (you know what im talking about) i could careless if your purple or red, your in a clan that ive seen act like a prick guess what your my number one target, next is enemy spg players, man do i love cbing, sending enemy spgs home early is awesome, and i like keeping my team safe, next on the list is autoloaders, i hate them, so if none of the 2 are available (or i sent an enemy spg home early) im gunning for you, last but not least is the 2 key warrior, i have a special hatred for people that mash that 2 key, ive actually started to mash the 2 key in an spg just for giggles, dont really care about the money anymore. other than that i try and help a flank getting over run 

dunniteowl #57 Posted Dec 24 2018 - 06:17

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View PostThePwnageMachine, on Dec 20 2018 - 13:39, said:

Before I start ranting about artillery, let me clarify something. I am FULLY aware, that there are hundreds of threads talking about how artillery needs to be re-done, and threads where people complain about artillery. I am also aware that my voice most likely will not be heard, but please, just hear me out.

 

I don't know about everyone else, but I personally thought the changes to artillery did the complete opposite of what we were asking for prior to their change, and now, they are even worse than the way they were before the change. The stun mechanic was, and still is, a complete disaster, I'd also like to add. 

 

They fire more often, have a better splash radius, aim faster, can STUN you (for a while too, some of them), and are more accurate than they were before the change. The alpha damage and penetration changes were way too insignificant to consider this a "rebalance" or "nerf" to artillery. Now, every game that I have with artillery in-play, I find myself wanting to scream at the screen, because not only am I getting hit by a tank I cannot hit back, it has been hitting me more often, more reliably, and making my tank 25% worse in every way for 10+ seconds.

 

I tried to deal with these changes when they came in and I tried to give it all a chance, but I've finally grown sick of it, and I'm || <- this close to quitting the game over it, because it is so incredibly INFURIATING that WarGaming buffed the one class of vehicle in their game that needed a serious nerf, complete re-work, or complete removal from the game. I used to be an avid player, now I find it painful to get in my favorite tanks and go play games, because I know artillery is going to ruin my fun when I get into a game, regardless of my tank type. I want to play this game like I used to, and I want to like it like I used to, but these artillery changes are one of the main reasons why I rarely get any enjoyment out of this game.

 

How would I fix this? I'm no expert or developer, but I would recommend this: Revert artillery back to the way it was prior to the change(i.e, a bit less accurate,a bit less splash radius, a bit slower to reload, high alpha, AND NO FLIPPIN' STUN), keep the same lower penetration values that were changed, but keep the ammunition to only high explosive. I believe this would still keep artillery somewhat usable, while not removing it from the game and shafting the people who play artillery. WarGaming, you will have a happier, healthier player base if you either A: nerf artillery as a whole and remove the "stun" mechanic, or B: Find another way for artillery to be effective in a battle, and get rid of the whole "stun" mechanic.

 

Let me know what you think below. Also, don't be a forum warrior and start making fun of me, or ANYONE else, for their opinions on this thread. If I see you're going to make fun of me or someone else, I'll report your comment. I am open to constructive criticism, and discussion. I want to hear everyone's opinions on the current state of artillery, and whether they agree with me on this or not. Maybe this thread will one day catch the eye of a developer. Thanks

 

And, please, for the sake of argument, tell me how this particular OP is ANY DIFFERENT from the hundreds of others whinging on about SPGs?  Honestly, is there anything different to your post as compared to so very many others out there?  Couldn't you have just found one of those and just said, "Yeah, what he said?"

 

Yawn.  You got no game, son.  Challenge yourself to do better next time, m'kay?

 

 

OvO



Moridin_707 #58 Posted Dec 24 2018 - 06:32

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You do understand that every one of these threads make most of us go play arty, right?

Seditious #59 Posted Dec 24 2018 - 06:55

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View PostMoridin_707, on Dec 24 2018 - 06:32, said:

You do understand that every one of these threads make most of us go play arty, right?

 

Do tell, why is that?

Haruhi_Suzumiya_ #60 Posted Dec 24 2018 - 07:10

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View PostWhineMaker, on Dec 23 2018 - 01:49, said:

 

Kind of like expecting a cold day in hell...

 

If it's not arty, the subject will become another soon enough... :facepalm:

 

 

Fun fact: Current in game missions twice a day, to destroy 10 tanks in tiers 8-10 for 2x large repair, med kits and auto fire extinguishers. Such fun to do in arty... :arta:

 

I know I received 4 of each yesterday and 2 so far today... :great:

 

The lowest level of hell is cold





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