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Why ruin the game to appease Heavy Tank Drivers?

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24_inch_pythons #1 Posted Dec 25 2018 - 18:00

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 Some people may think of these changes as good, some may not, but just look back at all the changes Wargaming has made for the purpose of appeasing Super Heavy tank drivers. Not even really all Heavy tank drivers, but really, specifically, just Super Heavy tank drivers.

 

- Bushes were gotten rid of, open maps gone. Light tanks and TDs wrecked to appease Super Heavy tank drivers.

- TDs lose camo while firing.

- TD lose all view range.

- Artillery damage reduced and AP removed

- Massive armor and HP buffs to Super Heavies

 

 And now Medium tanks and bottom tier tanks aren't safe either with the proposed changes to "special ammo" which effectively buffs all heavies and effectively nerfs all lightly armored tanks. 

 So, to recap, that's every single other class of tank in the game heavily nerfed through the years, neutered one might say, and Super Heavies getting buff after buff. 

 Why? Why Wargaming? Why ruin your game just to appease whiners who feel their tank should never be penetrated under any circumstance and they should just be allowed to roll over everyone in God mode?



Al_Scarface_Capone_ #2 Posted Dec 25 2018 - 18:09

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Moneys on they won't even re-work gold ammo. They put out some talk about gold ammo, 2 months later talk about some crap saying its in super test and never talk about it again.

 

It's just like the talk they did with reducing accuracy on all day across the board. 

 

IMO. MM needs the massive re-work. Games wouldn't be so stupid with this limitless TD and super heavy per-team match ups.

 

 



BigDollarBillz #3 Posted Dec 25 2018 - 18:10

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Lets just see what happens. It is not written in stone that they are going to do these changes. Enjoy the holidays instead of being mad over the possible changes. You're a good player and will adapt if they do these changes anyways.

Krasny1943 #4 Posted Dec 25 2018 - 18:18

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solution with gold ammo :D now it cost DOUBLE !! and you can only carry like 5 or 6 or like a specific number according to the capacity of the tank. BOOM ! DONE ! EVERYONE IS HAPPY !!!

 



stubmw #5 Posted Dec 25 2018 - 18:26

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You sum it up perfectly OP. The Gold ammo whiners argument can be boiled down easily. They don't think their tank should be able to be penned.

nuclearguy931 #6 Posted Dec 25 2018 - 18:28

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View Poststubmw, on Dec 25 2018 - 11:26, said:

You sum it up perfectly OP. The Gold ammo whiners argument can be boiled down easily. They don't think their tank should be able to be penned.

 

Just like the fast moving light and medium drivers don't think arty should hit them....suck it up buttercup.

stubmw #7 Posted Dec 25 2018 - 18:33

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View Postnuclearguy931, on Dec 25 2018 - 18:28, said:

 

Just like the fast moving light and medium drivers don't think arty should hit them....suck it up buttercup.

 

Funny other than a general rant about arty, I've never heard a light or medium whine about it. Similarly I've never heard a driver of a paper TD's whine about HE. No it's only the well armored heavies who are whining because their tank can be penned.

Edited by stubmw, Dec 25 2018 - 18:50.


GradorGamer #8 Posted Dec 25 2018 - 18:40

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Super Heavy Tanks are always the main targets, and even with so much armor and HP, any idiot with gold ammo can penetrate their armor, and sometimes they are spotted in the first minute of the battle, and do not even reach a protection with 50% of your HP.

So what I can say is that the light tanks are working fine, the TDs are working well, and the super heavyweights are not as indestructible as you say, all of this is overkill. In the case of super heavy Japanese it is understandable, I agree that they have a powerful armor, but they are still relatively easy to penetrate.

Maybe for you Tiger I, Tiger II, E 75 and E 100 (yes, they are considered Super Heavys) are tanks more "balanced" by having weak armor, but you have no idea how annoying and furious it is to play with a tank heavy that anyone can deal damage easily.



24_inch_pythons #9 Posted Dec 25 2018 - 18:46

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View PostGradorGamer, on Dec 25 2018 - 11:40, said:

Super Heavy Tanks are always the main targets, and even with so much armor and HP, any idiot with gold ammo can penetrate their armor, and sometimes they are spotted in the first minute of the battle, and do not even reach a protection with 50% of your HP.

So what I can say is that the light tanks are working fine, the TDs are working well, and the super heavyweights are not as indestructible as you say, all of this is overkill. In the case of super heavy Japanese it is understandable, I agree that they have a powerful armor, but they are still relatively easy to penetrate.

Maybe for you Tiger I, Tiger II, E 75 and E 100 (yes, they are considered Super Heavys) are tanks more "balanced" by having weak armor, but you have no idea how annoying and furious it is to play with a tank heavy that anyone can deal damage easily.

 

It's not easy to damage a Super Heavy.

They can reliably bounce HEAT from Tier IX and X mediums if they are played right. What more do you need?

Super Heavy tanks don't need buffs to succeed on the battlefield, they just need drivers who have the skill and temperament to play Super Heavy tanks.



Luciano_Bradley #10 Posted Dec 25 2018 - 18:58

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People forget premium shells are less forgiving against angled armor... 

 

 



Manimal__ #11 Posted Dec 25 2018 - 19:01

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View Post24_inch_pythons, on Dec 25 2018 - 09:00, said:

 Some people may think of these changes as good, some may not, but just look back at all the changes Wargaming has made for the purpose of appeasing Super Heavy tank drivers. Not even really all Heavy tank drivers, but really, specifically, just Super Heavy tank drivers.

 

 

- Artillery damage reduced and AP removed

 

 

 

This is exactly what is wrong with many people who play wot. They whine, cry and complain about arty being too OP and demand it be nerfed. THEN, they cry, whine and complain that it was nerfed.

RoIito #12 Posted Dec 25 2018 - 19:49

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Yes let us play our super heavies without all the benefits of driving one, because who needs armor when even the most clueless player can press 2 and sling a balanced HEAT round in your face.

 

Armor is worthless at this point and the super heavies are a waste of time, you spend lots of time, XP and credits just to get a free damage pinata, you've got "heavy armor" with all the downsides of having it like being slow as hell, being stuck where you decide to go at first because you can't relocate in most cases, having awful traverses and on top of that your armor gets negated because someone pressed 2, I think it's completely fair.



24_inch_pythons #13 Posted Dec 25 2018 - 19:57

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View PostRoIito, on Dec 25 2018 - 12:49, said:

Yes let us play our super heavies without all the benefits of driving one, because who needs armor when even the most clueless player can press 2 and sling a balanced HEAT round in your face.

 

Armor is worthless at this point and the super heavies are a waste of time, you spend lots of time, XP and credits just to get a free damage pinata, you've got "heavy armor" with all the downsides of having it like being slow as hell, being stuck where you decide to go at first because you can't relocate in most cases, having awful traverses and on top of that your armor gets negated because someone pressed 2, I think it's completely fair.

 

Type 5 and Maus and E75 and VK 100.01P and to a lesser extent the E100 and the Mauerbrecher all say Hi!!

Using armor is hard. Seriously. Not so much the Russian turret armor but armor that relies on you knowing how to use it and having the skill and patience to use it is hard. So what? So Wargaming should change their entire game and make every other class useless so that any imbecile can drive a Type 5? Why? What's the point of that?



ThugThuggiasTheThird #14 Posted Dec 25 2018 - 20:24

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I'm actually curious. Do people really hate gold ammo as much as some people try to make it seem? Like sure I get hit with gold often and I shoot it too, but when I play my E-100 I have no problems bouncing gold. Do people just face the enemy head on and expect to be god tier bounce lords?

Insanefriend #15 Posted Dec 25 2018 - 20:26

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Sigh when ever I hear someone bring up how the premium ammo changes will only help heavies I just roll my eyes.  Most high tier mediums have turrets on par with heavy tanks, so this change makes their armor better.  Most slower TD have armor on par with heavies, just look at the t110e3.  Really the debuff hurts heavies as much as most other classes.  I mean have you played a Mauschen?  It isn't fast enough to position it self anyplace other then to be a block in one area.  With out premium you can't even pen other heavies half the time.

 

I for one look forward to the change, i'm tried of playing good hull down mediums and taking APCR or HEAT to the heaviest armor of my tank.  Never mind people that just load the skill rounds to out play the other team by buying better penetration.  



jdub11 #16 Posted Dec 25 2018 - 20:48

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True, the special ammo change will effectively buff heavies due to WG's brawling game play due to smaller map sizes and over abundance of choke points. Though i agree that the premium ammo fix is long overdue WG needs to also adjust gameplay to allow lighter vehicles the possibility to easily get side shots or to flank around.

 

Maps like Pearl River, Northwest, and Hidden Village were great examples of maps that allowed this kind of gameplay. I loved these maps in the Leopard. As you all know WG oddly removed this type of play in favor for the slower channel fighting. This premium nerf will cause a lot more spamming of ammo in these choke points maybe even causing tanks to run out of ammo more often. We shall see how that goes.

 

WG, please fix the maps to bring balance.



Winterpeger #17 Posted Dec 25 2018 - 20:49

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View Poststubmw, on Dec 25 2018 - 12:33, said:

 

Funny other than a general rant about arty, I've never heard a light or medium whine about it. Similarly I've never heard a driver of a paper TD's whine about HE. No it's only the well armored heavies who are whining because their tank can be penned.

 

:teethhappy:  funny... but a week does not go by where someone has not posted to the forums that their light was hit by arty and that they need to limit arty... so no it's not only the well armored heavies who are whinning.

24_inch_pythons #18 Posted Dec 25 2018 - 21:46

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View PostThugThuggiasTheThird, on Dec 25 2018 - 13:24, said:

...when I play my E-100 I have no problems bouncing gold. Do people just face the enemy head on and expect to be god tier bounce lords?

 

That's exactly what they expect.

dunniteowl #19 Posted Dec 25 2018 - 21:59

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... and it goes 'round and 'round in the circle game...

 

I think it is important to realize that each class performs certain functions better than other classes and 'loses something' in return for that particular 'advantage.'  It is difficult to 'nail down' this whole 'balance' issue when tanks can meet units two tiers below them in many cases.  This is definitely NOT 'balanced' in terms of the likelihood of the lower tier unit being able to advantageously come out of the engagement.  And, up to tier VIII (and, of course, in the protected tiers of I-III, which never see more than a one up-tier difference) this will remain so.

 

The 'balancing' then comes into play with a number of tanks you actually DO have a chance to fight on relatively equitable terms on the opposing team, combined with a fair number of at tier units in your team to allow you to coordinate your actions against your opponents.  Then there is armor and penetration, combined with knowing weak spots of higher tiered opponents.  Add to this that some units perform better in some terrains and less so in others.  None of this is inherently on a unit by unit basis 'fair' or 'balanced.'  It is a constantly shifting, see-sawing, ring and plate spinning balancing ACT wherein nothing is ever 'balanced' in a static and non-changeable manner.  The 'balance' is, one hopes, achieved over a large number of matches played over time where these things ultimately do 'balance out' in aggregate form to some degree.

 

So it's hard to completely disagree with the OP just as it is hard to completely agree -- as long as we're talking absolutes or specific comparisons of units to units in even the same Class and Tier of different Nations.

 

I once heard that the definition of Compromise is an agreement to which all parties lose something, though can live with that loss for what little they feel they gain in return.  In colloquial terms, we call this, "Give and Take."

 

OvO


Edited by dunniteowl, Dec 25 2018 - 22:00.


EmperorJuliusCaesar #20 Posted Dec 25 2018 - 23:23

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View PostInsanefriend, on Dec 26 2018 - 02:26, said:

Sigh when ever I hear someone bring up how the premium ammo changes will only help heavies I just roll my eyes.  Most high tier mediums have turrets on par with heavy tanks, so this change makes their armor better.  Most slower TD have armor on par with heavies, just look at the t110e3.  Really the debuff hurts heavies as much as most other classes.  I mean have you played a Mauschen?  It isn't fast enough to position it self anyplace other then to be a block in one area.  With out premium you can't even pen other heavies half the time.

 

I for one look forward to the change, i'm tried of playing good hull down mediums and taking APCR or HEAT to the heaviest armor of my tank.  Never mind people that just load the skill rounds to out play the other team by buying better penetration.  

 

And you think this is going to lower prem usage??  Hahaha, dude, it's just going to make people carry even more prem rounds.







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