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Why ruin the game to appease Heavy Tank Drivers?

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Insanefriend #21 Posted Dec 26 2018 - 00:42

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View PostEmperorJuliusCaesar, on Dec 25 2018 - 16:23, said:

 

And you think this is going to lower prem usage??  Hahaha, dude, it's just going to make people carry even more prem rounds.

 

Wait people can carry more then a 100% ammo loadout?  This change will effect those players that only load premium the most.  It gives players on free to play accounts a chance to fight back, as loosing 25% of your dpm makes only shooting AP look tempting.

EmperorJuliusCaesar #22 Posted Dec 26 2018 - 01:03

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View PostInsanefriend, on Dec 26 2018 - 06:42, said:

 

Wait people can carry more then a 100% ammo loadout?  This change will effect those players that only load premium the most.  It gives players on free to play accounts a chance to fight back, as loosing 25% of your dpm makes only shooting AP look tempting.

 

Obviously you can't carry more than 100%.  All this is going to do is make people go from 1/3rd prem ammo loadout to 1/2 or more.

RickEdwards #23 Posted Dec 26 2018 - 03:03

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Most of the things you mentioned benefited mediums and lights as much, if not more, than heavy tanks. TDs with high view range make mediums and light tanks pointless to have since the TDs can spot for themselves if they have high view range coupled with the nonsensical camo they already have. If you do not think that their camo is nonsensical, let me remind you that a Swedish TD tier 8 and up has more camo than an ELC even 90, despite the even 90 having about a quarter (or less) of the profile of the Swedish TD. AND a T30 has almost double the camo of a T34, despite being basically the same tank IRL simply because it is called a TD.

 

As for the prem round nerf; heavies (not counting the super heavies that will no doubt be nerfed in the upcoming balances) are suuuuper crappy right now. This change will make tanks like the IS-4/E-100 actually viable. Having more tanks be viable is a good thing.

 

The argument of "medium tanks will become bad" is ridiculous; medium tanks, even without shooting prem, can pen almost all tanks from the front when aimed properly.

 

Also, even if more people shoot prem, that does not matter; the real thing this changes is that if you have one person shooting prem and penning every shot (which takes less skill) and one person shooting normal AP and penning every shot (which takes more skill), the person shooting the AP will win, as they should since they are CLEARLY better.



SquishySupreme #24 Posted Dec 26 2018 - 09:44

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I dunno about TDs being myopic.  The Swedish line can be boosted to well over 400m even at mid tiers and are quite deadly on their own.  

EmperorJuliusCaesar #25 Posted Dec 26 2018 - 10:10

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Ooops, wrong tab :-P

Edited by EmperorJuliusCaesar, Dec 26 2018 - 10:12.


NeatoMan #26 Posted Dec 26 2018 - 14:42

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View PostRickEdwards, on Dec 25 2018 - 21:03, said:

Also, even if more people shoot prem, that does not matter; the real thing this changes is that if you have one person shooting prem and penning every shot (which takes less skill) and one person shooting normal AP and penning every shot (which takes more skill), the person shooting the AP will win, as they should since they are CLEARLY better.

This

 

I get shot by premium ammo all the time and I don't even drive HTs anymore.



Ich_bin_Hass #27 Posted Dec 28 2018 - 06:32

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View Post24_inch_pythons, on Dec 25 2018 - 11:00, said:

 Some people may think of these changes as good, some may not, but just look back at all the changes Wargaming has made for the purpose of appeasing Super Heavy tank drivers. Not even really all Heavy tank drivers, but really, specifically, just Super Heavy tank drivers.

 

- Bushes were gotten rid of, open maps gone. Light tanks and TDs wrecked to appease Super Heavy tank drivers.

- TDs lose camo while firing.

- TD lose all view range.

- Artillery damage reduced and AP removed

- Massive armor and HP buffs to Super Heavies

 

 And now Medium tanks and bottom tier tanks aren't safe either with the proposed changes to "special ammo" which effectively buffs all heavies and effectively nerfs all lightly armored tanks. 

 So, to recap, that's every single other class of tank in the game heavily nerfed through the years, neutered one might say, and Super Heavies getting buff after buff. 

 Why? Why Wargaming? Why ruin your game just to appease whiners who feel their tank should never be penetrated under any circumstance and they should just be allowed to roll over everyone in God mode?

 

Hear ! Hear ! I totally agree with your post.

Ich_bin_Hass #28 Posted Dec 28 2018 - 06:34

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View PostRickEdwards, on Dec 25 2018 - 20:03, said:

Most of the things you mentioned benefited mediums and lights as much, if not more, than heavy tanks. TDs with high view range make mediums and light tanks pointless to have since the TDs can spot for themselves if they have high view range coupled with the nonsensical camo they already have. If you do not think that their camo is nonsensical, let me remind you that a Swedish TD tier 8 and up has more camo than an ELC even 90, despite the even 90 having about a quarter (or less) of the profile of the Swedish TD. AND a T30 has almost double the camo of a T34, despite being basically the same tank IRL simply because it is called a TD.

 

As for the prem round nerf; heavies (not counting the super heavies that will no doubt be nerfed in the upcoming balances) are suuuuper crappy right now. This change will make tanks like the IS-4/E-100 actually viable. Having more tanks be viable is a good thing.

 

The argument of "medium tanks will become bad" is ridiculous; medium tanks, even without shooting prem, can pen almost all tanks from the front when aimed properly.

 

Also, even if more people shoot prem, that does not matter; the real thing this changes is that if you have one person shooting prem and penning every shot (which takes less skill) and one person shooting normal AP and penning every shot (which takes more skill), the person shooting the AP will win, as they should since they are CLEARLY better.

 

"As for the prem round nerf; heavies (not counting the super heavies that will no doubt be nerfed in the upcoming balances) are suuuuper crappy right now."

 

  I'll believe this when I see it. We've been lied too before by WG's.



Ich_bin_Hass #29 Posted Dec 28 2018 - 06:36

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View PostArtyPlayers_Ignoramus, on Dec 25 2018 - 11:09, said:

Moneys on they won't even re-work gold ammo. They put out some talk about gold ammo, 2 months later talk about some crap saying its in super test and never talk about it again.

 

It's just like the talk they did with reducing accuracy on all day across the board. 

 

IMO. MM needs the massive re-work. Games wouldn't be so stupid with this limitless TD and super heavy per-team match ups.

 

 

 

"IMO. MM needs the massive re-work. Games wouldn't be so stupid with this limitless TD and super heavy per-team match ups."

 

  Agreed !



jdub11 #30 Posted Jan 03 2019 - 09:45

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Excerpt:

short Q&A with Viacheslav Ushakov. Originally from 19 December 2018.

Q: Why don’t you triple the team damage penalty, instead of removing it completely?
A: Because accidents happen, and we don’t want to punish the players for them.

Q: Why not implement quantity limits for gold ammo, instead of nerfing damage?
A: This would mean the ammo would be used against heavy armored targets anyway. It wouldn’t change anything.

 

Ok, sooo... Limiting special ammo wont change anything? Agreed the special ammo will be held until needed on more heavily armored tanks, but the pont is to stop "gold spam" on everything. If the heavy tanks get fired upon by special ammo they have a huge incentive to play their armor well to drain a limited pool of ammo. Further, allowing teammates to move under just an AP barrage.

I get that WG's bigger incentive is to make more off those wanting to keep up their stats.  However, people here want their game to be fixed from 2018's super slid into sh!tsville.

Nice try Viacheslav, this comment was obviously done tongue in cheek to misguide your player base.



latvius #31 Posted Jan 03 2019 - 15:08

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Gold is not spammed because of super heavies that argument is bogus, super heavies get spammed by gold because everyone wants an easy button and gold rounds are it.  I agree super heavies need a nerf in armor, if you can't pen the side of a super heavy reliably then something is wrong.

Gold is spammed at everything because it does not have a downside and a real good portion of the community's current drive is stat based, so even when the game is over say 2-12, gold is still spammed because they want those extra dmg points to keep up with everyone else.

Super heavies argument aside I don't understand why any competitive player would not want the rounds available (std, prem, HE) to be balanced and not as they are now.  Which is to have one that is better than the rest if you are willing to pay for it.

People trash the is-3a auto-reloader because it is for dum dums, but the Prog takes thought.  Well isn't that the same argument for balancing the types of rounds we use take away the dum dum round or rather give it a downside, you must think about what type of round you should use.

The prem nerf is also supposed to include a rebalance of all tanks one by one (believe it / don't believe it) certainly the game in it's current state needs something done.



RickEdwards #32 Posted Jan 03 2019 - 17:10

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View Postlatvius, on Jan 03 2019 - 15:08, said:

Gold is not spammed because of super heavies that argument is bogus, super heavies get spammed by gold because everyone wants an easy button and gold rounds are it.  I agree super heavies need a nerf in armor, if you can't pen the side of a super heavy reliably then something is wrong.

Gold is spammed at everything because it does not have a downside and a real good portion of the community's current drive is stat based, so even when the game is over say 2-12, gold is still spammed because they want those extra dmg points to keep up with everyone else.

Super heavies argument aside I don't understand why any competitive player would not want the rounds available (std, prem, HE) to be balanced and not as they are now.  Which is to have one that is better than the rest if you are willing to pay for it.

People trash the is-3a auto-reloader because it is for dum dums, but the Prog takes thought.  Well isn't that the same argument for balancing the types of rounds we use take away the dum dum round or rather give it a downside, you must think about what type of round you should use.

The prem nerf is also supposed to include a rebalance of all tanks one by one (believe it / don't believe it) certainly the game in it's current state needs something done.

 

Yep. As someone who has played many, many battles in high tier heavy, medium, and light tanks I can tell you that there are many people who simply load gold at the beginning of the match, likely because that is all they have, especially when the tank has gold APCR, which, instead of how it is with HEAT which has some sort of down side, APCR has no down side. But yeah, even when I am in tanks like the Leopard 1 I still get gold shot at me simply because people load only gold because there is no reason not to. Honestly with the amount of pen that gold rounds have at tier 10, there are few, it any, tanks that can be effectively angled to block them, which essentially makes slow heavy tanks pointless, since you end up trading speed for armor that gets penned essentially every shot anyways. The game is not being ruined "to appease heavy tank drivers," the game has already been ruined to appease bad medium tank drivers; now they're simply going to try to fix that.

Edited by RickEdwards, Jan 03 2019 - 17:10.


KingofDragons #33 Posted Jan 03 2019 - 17:10

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1) You can not limit gold rounds because of the +2/-2 MM..

 

2) WG needs to have less damage missions..

 

3) Believe or not it does take skill to drive super Heavies since you are the biggest Tank on the map...

 

4) Most tanks can shoot HE so why don't they ? 

 

5) A lot of HE have splash damage.. Hmmm splash damage..

 

6) WG needs to do a better job on matching tanks for tanks since not all Tanks in a certain class are the same..

 

 



64sherman #34 Posted Jan 03 2019 - 21:49

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Cut the damage done by gold rounds by 25%.  

Reduce the HP pools of all super heavy tanks.  

Limit the amount of gold rounds a tank can take into battle.  

???

Profit.  


Edited by 64sherman, Jan 03 2019 - 21:49.


64sherman #35 Posted Jan 03 2019 - 21:57

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View Post24_inch_pythons, on Dec 25 2018 - 11:00, said:

- Bushes were gotten rid of, open maps gone. Light tanks and TDs wrecked to appease Super Heavy tank drivers.

- TDs lose camo while firing.

- TD lose all view range.

- Artillery damage reduced and AP removed

- Massive armor and HP buffs to Super Heavies

 

The fact that bushes are gone effects all classes of vehicles.  On prokorovka a bush is a bush.  A super heavy player would be just as happy to hide behind it as anyone else.  I don't know of any super heavy players that argued for the removal of cover on maps that actually need it.  

 

TDs never should have had their camo or view range nerfed.  The only, and I mean ONLY reason why this happened was because of the lightly armored TD line on the german tree that was added just before all the nerfs.  Blame the RHM and it's ability to drain a 3rd of someones health away for why these nerfs happened.  I'm all for buffing TDs as a class, but some of the outliers. RHM included, would be just as OP as they were when they were first added.  I can still remember vividly how livid I was getting smoked on severgorsk by those things when they were first introduced.  

 

The only bad thing about arty damage being removed is that it was replaced by the awful stun mechanic, I'm all for the restoration of arty.    

 

The massive buffs to super heavies is just a result of all the powercreep.  All they have going for them is their armor, so of course in a game with IS-7s the Maus is going to have to 

A. be a tier lower than the IS-7 or, 

B. get a massive unhistorical buff

 

Guess which one was easier for WG to implement? 


Edited by 64sherman, Jan 03 2019 - 21:58.






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