Jump to content


Artillery will *never* and I mean NEVER be removed from WoT

Artillery; spg;

  • Please log in to reply
49 replies to this topic

Metia #1 Posted Dec 29 2018 - 02:57

    Sergeant

  • -Players-
  • 13379 battles
  • 205
  • Member since:
    03-14-2017

Look, I get it some of you hate the class, but it will not be removed.  They have stated it will not be removed, it is historically accurate for it to be in game, and it provides more dynamic game play as people have to do different things depending on the tank comps.

 

I am tired of "lol only heavies and TDs" games, they are boring, no lights barely any mediums (none of which want to scout) and a ton of heavily armed and armored tanks that sit hull down.  SPGs make it so sitting in a pile and not moving the entire game is a really bad plan.  People that spot will get more exp/credits, and who knows maybe people will play a light tank again.

 

If you do not like certain aspects of the SPG class, such as stun... which I have not found a single player spg/non-spg that really enjoys it, that is stuff you should bring up.  If you think there should be shell diversity, AP, HEAT, HE, or some gold version that does something in theme for class, provide that feedback too.

 

Personally I want stun removed, I want damage increased, I want to try to hit things with HEAT ammo, as the lefh I got from a box made me laugh on the 1:10 shots that penned the side of a tank with HEAT.  I would also kinda like the sniper mode improved, maybe with a minimap marker showing where your shot is being blocked, something that encourages people to use that mode instead of just top down.  What most SPG players do not understand is when we fire, there is a 2-3 second hang time, and we have around .7 accuracy.  Hitting light tanks on the move is HARD, but really rewarding when the shot lands.

 

Ideas that are not helpful are:

  1. 'Remove artillery'
  2. Remove indirect fire
  3. A SPG matchmaking system where you can opt out of playing against them.

 

I am cool with limiting spgs to two per side, and most SPG players have their own gripes/suggestions, but by in large the best thing to do is not sit wide out in the open, in a 2m ditch where only your russian turret can be seen, and sit there the entire game. 

 

Use cover, play as an spg to learn where the spots to set up are, or what restrictions you can use for your advantage when you are playing non-SPG vehicles.  Play light or medium tanks that you can mooch spotting damage on, and can even sneak in back and kill the SPGs with.  So much of your people's energy goes in to crying about how you hate that class, most have never even played it, and the preponderance of those that post play heavy tanks and heavy TDs. 

 

Diversify what you play, don't ask for something that even further limits peoples options, *and* has been stated that it will *never* be removed from the game.



MagillaGuerilla #2 Posted Dec 29 2018 - 03:02

    Major

  • -Players-
  • 25830 battles
  • 4,564
  • Member since:
    01-06-2013
WG already said that many times, there are too many guys that play it. I don't play it, so don't play much anymore, like a lot of other guys. It's simple enough to find other games that are more fun.

TheLeftAltyBoi #3 Posted Dec 29 2018 - 03:19

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 8173 battles
  • 463
  • [TEACH] TEACH
  • Member since:
    01-04-2013

View PostMetia, on Dec 28 2018 - 19:57, said:

and it provides more dynamic game play

lol



TLWiz #4 Posted Dec 29 2018 - 03:38

    Major

  • -Players-
  • 22002 battles
  • 9,748
  • [DSSRT] DSSRT
  • Member since:
    12-26-2014
Pro tips there - no doubt.

Smooky_Le_chien_husky #5 Posted Dec 29 2018 - 04:17

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 24515 battles
  • 897
  • [LMFR] LMFR
  • Member since:
    03-16-2012
I play arty and is fun to help my team ...  i enjoy time to time . just lots of baby not know how play or why arty are there so yep

owly111 #6 Posted Dec 29 2018 - 04:21

    Private

  • -Players-
  • 7466 battles
  • 6
  • Member since:
    09-24-2016

This is what people are complaining about.  This is after 10 games in Tier 8 Arty

 

Averaged .....7.8 shots per game. 

Averaged .....3 hits per game. 

Averaged .....0.3 penetrations per game. 

Averaged  725 damage per game.

Averaged .....4.1 splash per game.

 

This is what people are whining about?   This is two games damage in a 45% player in an IS-3A. 

Arty makes zero difference in the game.  



_Steel_Casket_ #7 Posted Dec 29 2018 - 04:34

    Captain

  • Players
  • 87732 battles
  • 1,396
  • [T_U_C] T_U_C
  • Member since:
    07-09-2012
DUH!

FrDashing #8 Posted Dec 29 2018 - 04:43

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 19717 battles
  • 333
  • [-BC-F] -BC-F
  • Member since:
    04-13-2013

View PostMetia, on Dec 28 2018 - 20:57, said:

Look, I get it some of you hate the class, but it will not be removed.  They have stated it will not be removed, it is historically accurate for it to be in game, and it provides more dynamic game play as people have to do different things depending on the tank comps.

 

I am tired of "lol only heavies and TDs" games, they are boring, no lights barely any mediums (none of which want to scout) and a ton of heavily armed and armored tanks that sit hull down.  SPGs make it so sitting in a pile and not moving the entire game is a really bad plan.  People that spot will get more exp/credits, and who knows maybe people will play a light tank again.

 

If you do not like certain aspects of the SPG class, such as stun... which I have not found a single player spg/non-spg that really enjoys it, that is stuff you should bring up.  If you think there should be shell diversity, AP, HEAT, HE, or some gold version that does something in theme for class, provide that feedback too.

 

Personally I want stun removed, I want damage increased, I want to try to hit things with HEAT ammo, as the lefh I got from a box made me laugh on the 1:10 shots that penned the side of a tank with HEAT.  I would also kinda like the sniper mode improved, maybe with a minimap marker showing where your shot is being blocked, something that encourages people to use that mode instead of just top down.  What most SPG players do not understand is when we fire, there is a 2-3 second hang time, and we have around .7 accuracy.  Hitting light tanks on the move is HARD, but really rewarding when the shot lands.

 

Ideas that are not helpful are:

  1. 'Remove artillery'
  2. Remove indirect fire
  3. A SPG matchmaking system where you can opt out of playing against them.

 

I am cool with limiting spgs to two per side, and most SPG players have their own gripes/suggestions, but by in large the best thing to do is not sit wide out in the open, in a 2m ditch where only your russian turret can be seen, and sit there the entire game. 

 

Use cover, play as an spg to learn where the spots to set up are, or what restrictions you can use for your advantage when you are playing non-SPG vehicles.  Play light or medium tanks that you can mooch spotting damage on, and can even sneak in back and kill the SPGs with.  So much of your people's energy goes in to crying about how you hate that class, most have never even played it, and the preponderance of those that post play heavy tanks and heavy TDs. 

 

Diversify what you play, don't ask for something that even further limits peoples options, *and* has been stated that it will *never* be removed from the game.

 

Amen

n4cer67 #9 Posted Dec 29 2018 - 22:15

    Major

  • Beta Testers
  • 17411 battles
  • 2,191
  • [NAAP] NAAP
  • Member since:
    10-18-2010
I think the damage should go back up since many SPG's lost about half their damage and keep stun to go with it. Current limit of 3 SPG's per side is fine.They need to add an SPG line for all nations plus have a low level and high level premium SPG for each of them.

Edited by n4cer67, Dec 29 2018 - 22:18.


scHnuuudle_bop #10 Posted Dec 29 2018 - 23:25

    Major

  • -Players-
  • 20693 battles
  • 3,720
  • Member since:
    05-03-2016

View Postn4cer67, on Dec 29 2018 - 22:15, said:

I think the damage should go back up since many SPG's lost about half their damage and keep stun to go with it. Current limit of 3 SPG's per side is fine.They need to add an SPG line for all nations plus have a low level and high level premium SPG for each of them.

 

I am fine with the changes they made. 

It was a good effort to return a support piece back to its intended role. 

I like the accuracy , expanded splash and the stun, in exchange for the orgasmic but once every 25 shot, 2500HP hit.

 

The limit, sure , support should never outnumber the main. They now need to start looking at the other support. 

I was in a game the other day, it had 16 tank destroyers in it. That was an outstanding example of snorefest.

Same with the light tanks, another support class. Games with more than 3 per team, are just a waste. You either get a significant portion of the team rushing out to die in 90 seconds, or they pretend to be TD's and hide. 

 

I would like to see all nationalities have their own artillery line, as well as one premium vehicle for each, if not more.


Edited by scHnuuudle_bop, Dec 29 2018 - 23:25.


n4cer67 #11 Posted Dec 30 2018 - 00:06

    Major

  • Beta Testers
  • 17411 battles
  • 2,191
  • [NAAP] NAAP
  • Member since:
    10-18-2010

View PostscHnuuudle_bop, on Dec 29 2018 - 16:25, said:

 

I am fine with the changes they made. 

It was a good effort to return a support piece back to its intended role. 

I like the accuracy , expanded splash and the stun, in exchange for the orgasmic but once every 25 shot, 2500HP hit.

 

The limit, sure , support should never outnumber the main. They now need to start looking at the other support. 

I was in a game the other day, it had 16 tank destroyers in it. That was an outstanding example of snorefest.

Same with the light tanks, another support class. Games with more than 3 per team, are just a waste. You either get a significant portion of the team rushing out to die in 90 seconds, or they pretend to be TD's and hide. 

 

I would like to see all nationalities have their own artillery line, as well as one premium vehicle for each, if not more.

 

Well the SPG's were always a support class and just because they could do damage didn't mean they weren't. No use being able to give someone support if all you're going to do is sissy slap the enemy. I do like the slightly increased accuracy which is better than nothing. Funny how none of my SPG's have the mythical laser precision one shot kills that the arty haters always cry about.

I think limit of 3 is fine because when team scatters like a herd of cats there's no way 1 or two can give proper support. What's hilarious is when teammates are hugging an enemy tank preventing you from firing on it then they scream at you after they're dead for not giving them fire support. I know what you mean by snorefest and honestly none have ever been cause by SPG's.

I don't see anything wrong with a low tier (T5) and high tier (T8) premium SPG for each nation since most of the main nations have multiple premiums of other classes.

_Diogenes #12 Posted Dec 30 2018 - 02:14

    Sergeant

  • -Players-
  • 22326 battles
  • 128
  • [MSFIT] MSFIT
  • Member since:
    04-11-2016
"and it provides more dynamic game play" Huh? Maybe you need to go look that word up. Then you can explain just what contest a tanker is participating in with that stinking, flying-scum!? 'm not playing with them, they're just tea-bagging a tank game, flying around like tinkerbell unloading on their unsuspecting victims while taking no risk of being spotted and fired upon. Ooooooh, big accomplishment shooting someone in the back whilst invisible. I say, bring back accuracy, make MM two tier maximum and if they cannot get rid of that cheating, flying scum, limit their numbers to one per team and put a bounty on them. Make counterbattery attractive by making it worthwhile. You call that flying-scum a class in a tank game. That would require the scumbags be IN a tank-game, ON THE GROUND LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE! If they are a "class", then they must be bound by the same rules! How about having their position given away when they fire, like everyone is SUPPOSED to be! Get rid of that scum, make them their own game, make a random battle game without them, do SOMETHING because as it is, it is completely WRONG! "Dynamic" what a joke. 

scHnuuudle_bop #13 Posted Dec 30 2018 - 02:39

    Major

  • -Players-
  • 20693 battles
  • 3,720
  • Member since:
    05-03-2016

Getting their enemies to move, provides an avenue for their teammates to play dynamically. Who cares about the enemy, the less dynamic their game is the better.

 

The only ones who fly around are the light tanks, and they may soon get to be the slow cousin as armoured cars start the circle of death around them.

 

If you think there is no risk to being spotted and fired upon as artillery, I assume you speak of some other game. The litter of wrecked artillery makes this one of the silliest arguments.

If you cannot search out a vehicle on a 1KM square map, so be it, lots seem to have no difficulty at all. Artillery is also the only class with easily visible tracers.

 

Any vehicle in the game can sit in the back, remain invisible, shoot players in the back, and have zero chance of being targeted, unless spotted.

 

This is NOT a tank game. Just because the word tank is in the title does not make it a tank game. This is one of the saddest complaints.

It is based on armoured warfare. A tank destroyer is not a tank, and the armoured cars are not either. 

 

Play by the same rules as anyone else. Ah, so all tanks have to drive the same speed, have the same armour, same guns, same ammo. Get rid of these skill things, some may not have them, so that is different rules. SIghting distances, well , just make them all the same rule as well.

 

Atari made a game , just as described, coincidentally called Tanks.


Edited by scHnuuudle_bop, Dec 30 2018 - 02:40.


_Diogenes #14 Posted Dec 30 2018 - 05:30

    Sergeant

  • -Players-
  • 22326 battles
  • 128
  • [MSFIT] MSFIT
  • Member since:
    04-11-2016

"AERIAL-VIEW" Where is that coming from, out your butt? How do you get that viewpoint? Ahem, FROM THE FRICKEN AIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You're NOT aircraft, don't have a drone or a helicopter, so what are you doing up there? Visible tracers!? SO WHAT? What am I to do about that as a tank, IN A FRICKEN TANK GAME? I am NOT and CANNOT play a tank against aircraft! FACT: The scum hit me from across the fricken map and take no risk of being spotted and fired on because they're seeing me from the air! I see his tracer, so what, can I fire back with any chance of hitting the cheater?!? Even a TD, which artillery scum like to compare, sneaks up on me, he takes the chance on being spotted and return fire! Where is that with the fricken, cheating, secret airborn MFKR?

 

Where is this litter of wrecked artillery? Sorry, not seeing it! At the end of the every game there is always three useless campers at a 100% just sitting there with their thumbs up their butts waiting to either get killed, finish the game on their own(now there is excitement)  or get undeserved points for a win. Just today, ran into three tanks, took one out, didn't even have the chance to move to a better defensive position for the other two as I was immediately one-shotted by someone who was not there, who I was not playing against, and was not part of the contest taking place. I would have liked to see what the outcome would have been, played my game to the conclusion. Without some backstabbing, trespassing cheater magically seeing me from the air NO MATTER HOW OR WHERE I MOVE! You want to play tanks, then play tanks, drive your schnittbox over and take your best shot like a man instead of a stinking backstabbing coward hiding in the back secretly seeing me from an unfair vantage point, the SKY. = CHEATING!  

 

If you think I can just sit in the back with my tank and play a game you've been in that flying crap too long, sorry, not possible, YOU'RE WRONG. When we fire, as WG says, our position is given away more often than not. Not so with the camping trespassers in the sky. Same should apply! This is not any conflict in some part of the world where artillery is a given, not armored warfare, its a video GAME. Games are played on a level playing field = FAIR! Except this pile of crap. If this is based on armored warfare as you say, then where is the foot soldiers with RPG's and ground attack aircraft taking out stinking artillery? Artillery has an unfair advantage without any serious countermeasures in this game! I want countermeasures! I DEMAND THEM! AS A PAYING CUSTOMER I DEMAND A FAIR GAME!  

 

Why do you guys rail against this being made fair? Either make a game just for artillery and a game without it, or put a bounty on artillery to promote counter battery. But something clearly has to be done to change it from its present form, it's WRONG! You also FAILED to explain how I am participating in any contest with artillery. Nobody can answer that! And don't be like the government and just give your opinion, it means nothing, give me the evidence. You cannot because it does no exist. Give players a choice to play with artillery or without and watch it wither and die!  



Myrenous #15 Posted Dec 30 2018 - 06:53

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 29223 battles
  • 302
  • [KCHUP] KCHUP
  • Member since:
    07-07-2011
I am not a huge arty fan but I have som to get missions and that's why and whne I play it ..unless im eating, but I think arty should be 1per team for random and 2 per team for grand, but I also thing tank destroyers should be limited to 3 per tean random and  per team for grand mostly because im sick of pushing out in a heavy and getting insta gibed by 2-3 TDs I think the high alpha paired with high pen and for the most part highly inpenerable frontal armor is a joke... honestly the game as better when only heavy tanks had tier 10s.

Zuikakoo #16 Posted Dec 30 2018 - 08:04

    First lieutenant

  • -Players-
  • 21446 battles
  • 597
  • Member since:
    02-11-2016
Arty needs more role than camping and stunning.    I think SPG's need a rework and a bold expansion into their abilities to transform them into a commander class.   SPG's should have battlechat reactivated exclusively.   They should get expanded orders and information, an active heads up display of the team with reload status of every member, Selectable active view range maps allowing them to click on a friendly and see what they see(like the deathcam), that not only show what's seen but what's not being seen, module and crew damage for friendlies as well.   I want them to get new shells too, Star shells that reduce camo bonuses, as well as Smoke Shells that increase camo bonuses.  The stun shell should only stun, a damage shell should only damage.  Make it so there's more to do than waiting to aim and waiting to reload.

Kiwi_Kid93 #17 Posted Dec 30 2018 - 09:04

    Corporal

  • Players
  • 26339 battles
  • 16
  • Member since:
    10-23-2012

View PostMetia, on Dec 29 2018 - 01:57, said:

Look, I get it some of you hate the class, but it will not be removed.  They have stated it will not be removed, it is historically accurate for it to be in game, and it provides more dynamic game play as people have to do different things depending on the tank comps.

 

I am tired of "lol only heavies and TDs" games, they are boring, no lights barely any mediums (none of which want to scout) and a ton of heavily armed and armored tanks that sit hull down.  SPGs make it so sitting in a pile and not moving the entire game is a really bad plan.  People that spot will get more exp/credits, and who knows maybe people will play a light tank again.

 

If you do not like certain aspects of the SPG class, such as stun... which I have not found a single player spg/non-spg that really enjoys it, that is stuff you should bring up.  If you think there should be shell diversity, AP, HEAT, HE, or some gold version that does something in theme for class, provide that feedback too.

 

Personally I want stun removed, I want damage increased, I want to try to hit things with HEAT ammo, as the lefh I got from a box made me laugh on the 1:10 shots that penned the side of a tank with HEAT.  I would also kinda like the sniper mode improved, maybe with a minimap marker showing where your shot is being blocked, something that encourages people to use that mode instead of just top down.  What most SPG players do not understand is when we fire, there is a 2-3 second hang time, and we have around .7 accuracy.  Hitting light tanks on the move is HARD, but really rewarding when the shot lands.

 

Ideas that are not helpful are:

  1. 'Remove artillery'
  2. Remove indirect fire
  3. A SPG matchmaking system where you can opt out of playing against them.

 

I am cool with limiting spgs to two per side, and most SPG players have their own gripes/suggestions, but by in large the best thing to do is not sit wide out in the open, in a 2m ditch where only your russian turret can be seen, and sit there the entire game. 

 

Use cover, play as an spg to learn where the spots to set up are, or what restrictions you can use for your advantage when you are playing non-SPG vehicles.  Play light or medium tanks that you can mooch spotting damage on, and can even sneak in back and kill the SPGs with.  So much of your people's energy goes in to crying about how you hate that class, most have never even played it, and the preponderance of those that post play heavy tanks and heavy TDs. 

 

Diversify what you play, don't ask for something that even further limits peoples options, *and* has been stated that it will *never* be removed from the game.

 

I used to think the same as you, and that those who complained about being harassed by them were just bad players...until I started grinding British heavy and TD lines.  A frustrating number of times I am making my way to conventional lanes for heavies, inevitably crossing an open area and am spotted by either a sui-scout, rubbish player who almost immediately dies, but for me the damage is done.  A barrage of arty begins, that often doesn't end until I'm half dead, or at the very least with multiple dead crew members or modules.  I'm perfectly ok with 1 or 2 arty in a game, but 3 is just dumb, and for me personally has had me turn off the game completely whilst grinding slow tank trees.

I play arty myself occasionally, and take advantage of the stun, the slow tanks and often think to myself how frustrated other players must be at the tactics I, and other arty players enjoy.  To be honest, this game is dying a slow death, the current arty meta is speeding up that death in my opinion.  Who wants to play a game that leaves you frustrated??? Games are meant to be fun right? or am I missing something?



_Tsavo_ #18 Posted Dec 30 2018 - 09:26

    Major

  • Beta Testers
  • 45467 battles
  • 19,349
  • [BRVE] BRVE
  • Member since:
    02-16-2011

I dislike arty, however that doesn't stop me from playing with them in mind and making it difficult to hit me, though splash range means you're basically guaranteed a stun.   It annoying to play against and does encourage players to do something different, but in the end is a thing that remains a fair bit out of my control.   The biggest reason I dislike it.   I can try to mitigate it, but I can't control it. 

 

This is likely why many dislike it.   I like to control my engagements, choose when and where to engage, shoot, and handle incoming fire.  I like being the one in power, forcing the enemy to react to me.   It is rather difficult to engage arty on your terms, you can do all you can to mitigate it, but you can't stop it.  Wiggle, juke, jive, dive, weave, bob, stop, peek, poke, dash.   Do that and more, just don't be predictable, that's about the only thing you can do.   

 

And I'm still rather bad at it (see my tier ten stats) and generally make more misplays than good plays.  

 

 

 

It's here and isn't going anywhere adapt or die.  Coming from an arty loather 


Edited by _Tsavo_, Dec 30 2018 - 09:33.


scHnuuudle_bop #19 Posted Dec 30 2018 - 09:49

    Major

  • -Players-
  • 20693 battles
  • 3,720
  • Member since:
    05-03-2016

View Post_Tsavo_, on Dec 30 2018 - 09:26, said:

I dislike arty, however that doesn't stop me from playing with them in mind and making it difficult to hit me, though splash range means you're basically guaranteed a stun.   It annoying to play against and does encourage players to do something different, but in the end is a thing that remains a fair bit out of my control.   The biggest reason I dislike it.   I can try to mitigate it, but I can't control it. 

 

This is likely why many dislike it.   I like to control my engagements, choose when and where to engage, shoot, and handle incoming fire.  I like being the one in power, forcing the enemy to react to me.   It is rather difficult to engage arty on your terms, you can do all you can to mitigate it, but you can't stop it.  Wiggle, juke, jive, dive, weave, bob, stop, peek, poke, dash.   Do that and more, just don't be predictable, that's about the only thing you can do.   

 

And I'm still rather bad at it (see my tier ten stats) and generally make more misplays than good plays.  

 

 

 

It's here and isn't going anywhere adapt or die.  Coming from an arty loather 

 

You like to control your engagements , when and where.

So artillery engages you first, you dislike.

Now, what are your thoughts on any other enemy who engages you first. 

 

If it is because you can at least take a rough blind shoot where you think he is. Do you think it is a placebo effect, whether successful or not you at least got to directly try?

 

And you Wiggle, juke, jive, dive, weave, bob, stop, peek, poke, dash.

You are far from bad at anything in this game.

You make your enemy artillery muttter under their breaths. Asking for someone to nail your foot the floor.



_Tsavo_ #20 Posted Dec 30 2018 - 09:56

    Major

  • Beta Testers
  • 45467 battles
  • 19,349
  • [BRVE] BRVE
  • Member since:
    02-16-2011

View PostscHnuuudle_bop, on Dec 30 2018 - 03:49, said:

 

You like to control your engagements , when and where.

So artillery engages you first, you dislike.

Now, what are your thoughts on any other enemy who engages you first. 

 

If it is because you can at least take a rough blind shoot where you think he is. Do you think it is a placebo effect, whether successful or not you at least got to directly try?

 

And you Wiggle, juke, jive, dive, weave, bob, stop, peek, poke, dash.

You are far from bad at anything in this game.

You make your enemy artillery muttter under their breaths. Asking for someone to nail your foot the floor.

 

Nailed it in one, in the first two sentences.  

 

As for enemy's who engage me first?   Well, first I grumble and shake my first at them menacingly, then I try to have a quick think.   If someone shot me unspotted, can I easily pick them out?   Did they Monty Python themselves in the only bush?   Round downrange.  Did they catch me with my pants down?   Well, first thing is cover up, it's indecent I hear.  Then can I find cover, what are they, what's their reload-can I stop and fire back before they can retort, is there an escape route, have I goofed (answer usually yes), and at the end of it all usually a "good play" if they slay me.   Basically, how and where can I wrest control of the situation from themy/them?

 

I try not to let them engage me on their terms, but it happens because I am made of goof.  I'm highly allergic to these situations with the reaction usually being horrible death. 

 

It's mostly when arty whacks me, direct ability to even blind fire is not possible, though it has been done, as well as blind shooting known arty spots early, beyond that best I can do against arty most times is ping generally where the bugger is at and hope our arty can counter. 

 

Please don't nail my foot the floor, not only would it hurt, I'd not be able to do my dance D:

 

 

 

I'm grinding the ISU line currently and the blind shot thing has happened 3 times now.   Either from a round impacting/bouncing me, or 6th going off as I meander past a known spottery bush.   I one-shot blind blooped a Skorpion, T71, and HWK this way. 


Edited by _Tsavo_, Dec 30 2018 - 10:03.






Also tagged with Artillery; spg;

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users