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gold haters need to explain why the hate


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suntzu50 #1 Posted Jan 03 2019 - 22:24

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    Something i do not understand about all the hate with gold rounds in the game. I have been playing for 7 years and yes the first few years gold was for CW. Do i see a lot of it now yes, but i ask what are they to do? WG set the game up that you needed to have and play T8 premium tanks to play the game. And it is a game BTW this is very far from a tank Sim. you need T8 premium tanks, to level your crews, to make silver so you can buy new tanks, and not only do you need it for the tank but the gun track ect. They sent the economy up so you had to play T8 tanks. They are the ones that decided that T8 was the level of the tank they would use. Then they brought in OP t10 tanks into that line (lest we forget that at one time T30 was the end of the US line) and came up with the idea that clan tanks would be locked in CW, so now you needed even more tanks to grind, and i am not even going to start about, buff this tank, nerf this tank, game that WG keeps playing. Ask anyone that has been playing CW for a long time, the list goes on it seems forever with the new flavor, for the game for CW.

 

    What do you want them to do? There are many T10s they can not pen without the gold and the t10 tanks many of them can take half there hit points with one shot and many that can all most take them all. we all see it in the games, got a T8 in front of you just roll around dump you clip or fire your Derp and move on. What are they to do just roll over and let you farm damage from them? And do not say relocate, try moving around in a T8 heavy, or better yet see how running from a T10 clip med works for you.   

 

     The fault is with WG for setting up the economy of the game to run off T8 Prem. tanks.  For changing the stats of the T10 line every other day it seems. For a matchmaker, that puts T8s in the middle or the bottom most of the time.  And for putting gold rounds in the game in the first place.     



latvius #2 Posted Jan 03 2019 - 22:31

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From what I can summarize of your post you are asking why do players complain about tier 8's shooting gold at tier 10 tanks?  Answer is they don't  Players complain about tier 10 tanks shooting gold at tier 8's  (Simplified answer)

Spanktankk #3 Posted Jan 03 2019 - 22:35

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Do you use Consumables?

Do you use Equipment?

 

If yes to either of the above, you cant complain about Prem rounds.

 

ALL of the above are Game Advantages that can be purchased for "free" (no real $$ involved) with Silver.

 

Enough with the hypocrites already.

/Spank



I_QQ_4_U #4 Posted Jan 03 2019 - 22:37

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View Postlatvius, on Jan 03 2019 - 22:31, said:

From what I can summarize of your post you are asking why do players complain about tier 8's shooting gold at tier 10 tanks?  Answer is they don't  Players complain about tier 10 tanks shooting gold at tier 8's  (Simplified answer)

 

While people do whine about that it makes no sense, chances are they are going to pen with regular rounds anyway so it makes no difference to the catcher, the pitcher is the one who's going to have to pay for it.

 

 On the other hand the more reasonable complaint is that people who play tanks with lots of armour are upset that they can't just roll through their enemies without taking damage from tanks their tier or lower.



_Katyusha___ #5 Posted Jan 03 2019 - 23:11

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people is dumb about apcr it was available in frontline irl. Even if you argue it was very scarce, it just happen that we players are "elite forces" so more apcr for us, lol. Crews would look for it from knocked out tanks and the like, all the time. 

Lesser_Spotted_Panzer #6 Posted Jan 03 2019 - 23:18

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View Postlatvius, on Jan 03 2019 - 16:31, said:

From what I can summarize of your post you are asking why do players complain about tier 8's shooting gold at tier 10 tanks?  Answer is they don't  Players complain about tier 10 tanks shooting gold at tier 8's  (Simplified answer)

 

Partly this, but the answer is deeper than this. Basically, it is indicative of the fact that some people shoot gold regardless of the situation, and that generally indicates either a lack of skill on the part of the opponent or an extremely high desire to perform (due to stupid xvm stats). Neither of those are positive traits in my opinion.

If you penalize the lower skill players, then those that care about skill and tactics in the game will be happier. I count myself as one of those people.

If you penalize the tier 10 stat-[edited], they will also have to adapt or suffer a drop in their precious WN8.



YANKEE137 #7 Posted Jan 03 2019 - 23:18

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Omega_Weapon #8 Posted Jan 03 2019 - 23:30

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View Postsuntzu50, on Jan 03 2019 - 16:24, said:

     The fault is with WG for setting up the economy of the game to run off T8 Prem. tanks.  For changing the stats of the T10 line every other day it seems. For a matchmaker, that puts T8s in the middle or the bottom most of the time.  And for putting gold rounds in the game in the first place.     

 

Wargaming is to blame for balancing their tanks around premium rounds in the first place. They need to leave premium rounds as they are, or then they have to completely re-balance every tank in the game. In particular, all tanks would require frontal weak spots that can be penned by vehicles 1 or 2 tiers lower. Then gold rounds become a luxury and we won't need to depend on them.

UFO_Sailor #9 Posted Jan 03 2019 - 23:37

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View PostLesser_Spotted_Panzer, on Jan 03 2019 - 22:18, said:

 

Partly this, but the answer is deeper than this. Basically, it is indicative of the fact that some people shoot gold regardless of the situation, and that generally indicates either a lack of skill on the part of the opponent or an extremely high desire to perform (due to stupid xvm stats). Neither of those are positive traits in my opinion.

If you penalize the lower skill players, then those that care about skill and tactics in the game will be happier. I count myself as one of those people.

If you penalize the tier 10 stat-[edited], they will also have to adapt or suffer a drop in their precious WN8.

 

So you were great right out of the gate, that's great.  I however am not that good and never will I cant see well and hear that well either.  By your statement you want beginners (you know new players that we need) or people like my self to be penalized, way to grow the game.  And by your stats it took you a LOOOONG time to get where you are (and i bet spewed gold rounds when you sucked) , or you were great at first and peaked a LOOOOOONg time ago.  Happy New Year

RickEdwards #10 Posted Jan 03 2019 - 23:45

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The way I see it is that this game is actually balanced with guns of one tier shooting at tanks of the same tier. That sounds odd, but it's like this: like lets say a tier 8 medium has a tier 8 gun, as they mostly do; and that medium uses gold rounds when shooting a tier 9 heavy. That situation is fine; the gold of that tier 8 gun should raise it up to about the pen of a tier 9 or 10 gun. Now same situation in a tier 8 TD; except, TDs at tier 8 usually get tier 10 guns, that TD is shooting at a tier 9 heavy that is balanced to have a chance to bounce a tier 9 gun's pen, but with the tier 10 gun and it shooting gold ammo, there is essentially no chance it will bounce the shot. The only way gold ammo can possibly be seen as balanced is when it is a lower tier tank shooting a higher one; otherwise, heavy tanks have essentially traded away speed, and often firepower, for armor that is basically useless.

 

Ideally the best way to actually balance gold ammo would be to remove it outright for tier 10 guns and make the gold pen on all guns be a bit less than the same line 2 tiers up (except for tier 10 guns that have none and then tier 9 guns that have the same pen with gold as tier 10 standard). In addition to that, there should be a damage penalty for shooting lower tier tanks with gold ammo, similar to the current change being tested.



suntzu50 #11 Posted Jan 03 2019 - 23:48

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Not buying the whole skill thing. Seems to me it takes little or no skill to watch when someone has shot, then pull around and clip them out. what skill is that. The whole lack of skill thing is BS.

ricko7 #12 Posted Jan 04 2019 - 00:36

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View Postsuntzu50, on Jan 03 2019 - 21:24, said:

    Something i do not understand about all the hate with gold rounds in the game. I have been playing for 7 years and yes the first few years gold was for CW. Do i see a lot of it now yes, but i ask what are they to do? WG set the game up that you needed to have and play T8 premium tanks to play the game. And it is a game BTW this is very far from a tank Sim. you need T8 premium tanks, to level your crews, to make silver so you can buy new tanks, and not only do you need it for the tank but the gun track ect. They sent the economy up so you had to play T8 tanks. They are the ones that decided that T8 was the level of the tank they would use. Then they brought in OP t10 tanks into that line (lest we forget that at one time T30 was the end of the US line) and came up with the idea that clan tanks would be locked in CW, so now you needed even more tanks to grind, and i am not even going to start about, buff this tank, nerf this tank, game that WG keeps playing. Ask anyone that has been playing CW for a long time, the list goes on it seems forever with the new flavor, for the game for CW.

 

    What do you want them to do? There are many T10s they can not pen without the gold and the t10 tanks many of them can take half there hit points with one shot and many that can all most take them all. we all see it in the games, got a T8 in front of you just roll around dump you clip or fire your Derp and move on. What are they to do just roll over and let you farm damage from them? And do not say relocate, try moving around in a T8 heavy, or better yet see how running from a T10 clip med works for you.   

 

     The fault is with WG for setting up the economy of the game to run off T8 Prem. tanks.  For changing the stats of the T10 line every other day it seems. For a matchmaker, that puts T8s in the middle or the bottom most of the time.  And for putting gold rounds in the game in the first place.     

 

 Wrong

Korvick #13 Posted Jan 04 2019 - 00:39

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View Postsuntzu50, on Jan 03 2019 - 22:48, said:

Not buying the whole skill thing. Seems to me it takes little or no skill to watch when someone has shot, then pull around and clip them out. what skill is that. The whole lack of skill thing is BS.

 

Its probably because I'm coming from my last half dozen years on ASIA Server but that statement above already shows more skill than I've seen in most players there.  Way more.

scHnuuudle_bop #14 Posted Jan 04 2019 - 00:40

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I saw the greatest advice last year.

 

Get rid of your hit log, or at least the portion that tells you what type of ammo is hitting you.

 

Why knowing what type is hitting remains a mystery to me. 

 

If all you know is that you are getting hit, premium ammo concerns just fade away.



Everlasting_Chungus #15 Posted Jan 04 2019 - 00:41

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imo what I try to do every game is the absolute best I can. The main issue in achieving that is WG removing weakspots, or making weakspots rather situational (take S Conq for instance, glassy lower plate but if you can hide it then GL penning it without spamming gold at it's cupola). 

 

So in short, I personally use gold mainly when I can't guarantee a pen; and I can't guarantee that I can survive a duel with just standard shells because there is absolutely nothing stopping the enemy from switching to gold themselves. At that point its a war of dpm and skill in angling 

 

Take super heavies for example; you get tons of armor, tons of health, and in return your AP pen is rather lackluster. Do you A: just sit there plinking 246~ pen shells off a hull down 277 whose just going to slap heat through you, or do you switch to gold in the hopes of using your health and armor to make up the difference in dpm and gun handling?

 

TBH I wouldn't mind all tanks losing their gold round if WG reinstated actual weakspots on these tanks. So many of the meta tanks are meta mainly because they can either shell out the golden pain faster than anyone else, can tank for long as hell, or a combination of both. Any tank that doesn't excel in dpm or tanking is mostly useless in the meta, pub and cw. 


 

As for the argument that using gold indicates a lack of skill, that's rather stupid. The largest spammers of pure gold are mostly unicums, that's highly attributed to their ability to sustain that level of credit hemorrhage. Their reason for spamming gold is almost the same as mine, if they can't guarantee winning an engagement with standard why would they purposely put themselves at a disadvantage? They are skilled enough to get the shots, all they want is to not have to deal with having to sit in front of someone forever to pixel snipe overarmored cupolas. 



Lesser_Spotted_Panzer #16 Posted Jan 04 2019 - 00:47

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View PostUFO_Sailor, on Jan 03 2019 - 17:37, said:

 

So you were great right out of the gate, that's great.  I however am not that good and never will I cant see well and hear that well either.  By your statement you want beginners (you know new players that we need) or people like my self to be penalized, way to grow the game.  And by your stats it took you a LOOOONG time to get where you are (and i bet spewed gold rounds when you sucked) , or you were great at first and peaked a LOOOOOONg time ago.  Happy New Year

 

I certainly wasn't great from the start and I definitely improved over time. However, I never used gold at all until the past two years thanks to the introduction of much better armored heavies and the stupid MM that puts me bottom tier 90% of the time. Even now, I only use gold sparingly in spite of having 125M creds in my account.

In any case, I am certainly not great and am only just above average.

I don't think it is fair that one player should have an advantage just by pressing the 2 key. I prefer this it be a skill based game. That's just my preference and the reduction of alpha for gold rounds will hopefully correct this.



beryn #17 Posted Jan 04 2019 - 00:48

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I have gotten to the point I just don't care anymore. when I know the only way I will do anything I just use gold screw it .it;s sad but when MM puts you in the no win just do what you can scenario. but that's what WG is going for. get mad buy prem tanks to even out how bad it is. this is what this game has become   

Korvick #18 Posted Jan 04 2019 - 01:01

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View Postsuntzu50, on Jan 03 2019 - 21:24, said:

    Something i do not understand about all the hate with gold rounds in the game. I have been playing for 7 years and yes the first few years gold was for CW. Do i see a lot of it now yes, but i ask what are they to do? WG set the game up that you needed to have and play T8 premium tanks to play the game. And it is a game BTW this is very far from a tank Sim. you need T8 premium tanks, to level your crews, to make silver so you can buy new tanks, and not only do you need it for the tank but the gun track ect. They sent the economy up so you had to play T8 tanks. They are the ones that decided that T8 was the level of the tank they would use. Then they brought in OP t10 tanks into that line (lest we forget that at one time T30 was the end of the US line) and came up with the idea that clan tanks would be locked in CW, so now you needed even more tanks to grind, and i am not even going to start about, buff this tank, nerf this tank, game that WG keeps playing. Ask anyone that has been playing CW for a long time, the list goes on it seems forever with the new flavor, for the game for CW.

 

    What do you want them to do? There are many T10s they can not pen without the gold and the t10 tanks many of them can take half there hit points with one shot and many that can all most take them all. we all see it in the games, got a T8 in front of you just roll around dump you clip or fire your Derp and move on. What are they to do just roll over and let you farm damage from them? And do not say relocate, try moving around in a T8 heavy, or better yet see how running from a T10 clip med works for you.   

 

     The fault is with WG for setting up the economy of the game to run off T8 Prem. tanks.  For changing the stats of the T10 line every other day it seems. For a matchmaker, that puts T8s in the middle or the bottom most of the time.  And for putting gold rounds in the game in the first place.     

 

Well, actually, WG originally set it up so that the majority of players would be playing in mid tiers.  Because that's the majority of their player base, the F2P people.  That's why you always lose money on higher tiers and always make money in mid.  They were encouraging people even with T10s to come back to mid tiers where they expected the most people would be.  T8 Prems (which in the beginning were only 2) were there for the Whales to short circuit this and essentially print silver.  But the game has changed.  Its got more than 2 Tier 10's for a start.  And you are seeing tanks that were definitely not available in Berlin '45. 

 

The game changed the moment it unexpectedly took off like a rocket.  Essentially, WG have been playing catch up ever since.  And while they aren't good at it, the current situation is infinitely better than the alternative.  (You might not remember having your M5 Stuart facing a Maus but I do ...)

 

Prem Ammo has been one constant scab since the start of the game.  While I can understand it from a business point of view, its a cancer.  The only thing that saved it - and the game - is that you can now buy it with silver.  This increased the value of money making T8 prems even more.  I would rather it disappeared from the game altogether, but its not ever going to.  So I live with it.  I use it, since I can afford it.  But usually only about 1 in 4 games.  Adapt to the changes.

 

As for T8's in the bottom most of the time.  You do realise this is a TEAM game right?  There are T8's across the field from you in EXACTLY the same position.

 



kapri25 #19 Posted Jan 04 2019 - 01:08

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Regardless of whether you can buy gold rounds with credits or not, they get expensive real quick. Then WG wants to nerf the damage of it...we're going to see a lot more gold and the economy is going to really suck for high tier games. Thank god most tier 6 tanks are pretty balanced...for now.

Korvick #20 Posted Jan 04 2019 - 01:11

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View Postkapri25, on Jan 04 2019 - 00:08, said:

Regardless of whether you can buy gold rounds with credits or not, they get expensive real quick. Then WG wants to nerf the damage of it...we're going to see a lot more gold and the economy is going to really suck for high tier games. Thank god most tier 6 tanks are pretty balanced...for now.

 

HAH, if that happened then it would be great.  That was the original intent after all.  Look at the credits earned in a tier.  They deliberately coded it such that you are meant to lose money in T10 regardless of win or loss.




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