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gold haters need to explain why the hate


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SpectreHD #41 Posted Jan 04 2019 - 14:48

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View PostSpanktankk, on Jan 04 2019 - 05:35, said:

Do you use Consumables?

Do you use Equipment?

 

If yes to either of the above, you cant complain about Prem rounds.

 

ALL of the above are Game Advantages that can be purchased for "free" (no real $$ involved) with Silver.

 

Enough with the hypocrites already.

/Spank

 

Tanks are balanced with those equipment taken into account.

 

Premium consumables do not near nullify a characteristic a vehicle is balanced around. Heck, the advantages food gives does not overwhelm a tank that does not use it.

 

Premium rounds are on a whole different level from Equipment, and one match consumables that improve a vehicle's stats.

 

Back when the EU players can take part in super test, Super testers were specifically told not to use premium ammo. Balance has always been done without premium ammo factored in. Only in the last 3 years when WG under the "great" guidance of Murazor decided to make armour a balanceable stat resulting in the overarmouring seen in the last 2-3 years.

 

The fact remains, premium ammo negatively impacts balance unlike equipments (lol stupid example to use) and premium consumables and is the sole cause for the overarmouring we see today.

 

View PostOmega_Weapon, on Jan 04 2019 - 06:30, said:

 

Wargaming is to blame for balancing their tanks around premium rounds in the first place. They need to leave premium rounds as they are, or then they have to completely re-balance every tank in the game. In particular, all tanks would require frontal weak spots that can be penned by vehicles 1 or 2 tiers lower. Then gold rounds become a luxury and we won't need to depend on them.

 

Only in the last 3 years starting with the Maus and Type 4/5 buffs. What they really need to do is heavily nerf premium ammo so that we can undo the massive armour buffs they received as well as on newly introduced vehicles with too much armour like the Object 268 v4.

 

Premium ammo should give only a small increase in penetration, like 20-30mm with a 15-20% max damage reduction with cost brought down to near standard rounds. Premium ammo should be situational use just the way HE is.

 

View PostDiesel__2, on Jan 04 2019 - 08:19, said:

I never have and never will load premium ammo.  If I come  up to a tank I can't pen from the front......I wait for him to make a mistake allowing me  to hit a weak spot.Or, I'll leave him to the tanks on my team that can pen him.  I could never understand the concept of a tier 6 tank gun using a "special" round so it can equalize a higher tier tank.  Kind of defeats the purpose of lower /higher tier tanks in my mind.

 

Exactly, that was how we played way back then when there was +-4 MM. Lower tiered vehicles did not expect to fight higher tiered opponents head on. They would shadow and support their higher tiered teammates. Now everyone expects to be able to fight whoever they see, even if they are lower tiered.



latvius #42 Posted Jan 04 2019 - 15:12

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View Postriot_evo, on Jan 04 2019 - 03:11, said:

 

If I have gold loaded in my [edited]barn and a tier 8 comes running through my line when I'm expecting a tier 10, I'm not going to waste 24 seconds to reload an AP round, I'm going to erase the tier 8 and wait for that juicy tier 10 hp pool. If I'm playing tanks with a high RoF then I'll adjust accordingly; I don't need gold on a hell kitty if I'm bottom tier in my cromB. I will and have, used gold on t29s and the tier 8 baby maus, again when I was in my cromB.

 

Nobody ever complained about this, the current problem is players using nothing but gold rounds and subsidizing that with cash.  

latvius #43 Posted Jan 04 2019 - 15:20

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View PostSpanktankk, on Jan 03 2019 - 22:35, said:

Do you use Consumables?

Do you use Equipment?

 

If yes to either of the above, you cant complain about Prem rounds.

 

ALL of the above are Game Advantages that can be purchased for "free" (no real $$ involved) with Silver.

 

Enough with the hypocrites already.

/Spank

 

/Spank ? How old are you?

 

Consumables and equipment have downsides, run food?  no room for a fire ext, equipment? only get 3 to choose with more than 3 that are useful.  Premium rounds do not have a downside so it is getting abused.

You can purchase premium rounds for "free" like you said but you cannot run all gold without using real money to subsidize it.  Com'on think this through.

It's about time they balanced rounds so you have three types that you need to use your brain to choose the most effective one for your situation.  I don't understand the opposition to this, other than the knee jerk reaction to something changing.


Edited by latvius, Jan 04 2019 - 15:20.


Zwinmar #44 Posted Jan 04 2019 - 15:47

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Its not necessarily the gold ammo that is the problem, it is the fact that it takes away the balancing factor that the heavily armored pay through the nose for.  Take a kv4, or the t28, or the slow British td's, they were balanced around their armor, their ability to actually bounce shots. This is the big problem with the high tier swede td's and the Japanese derps..they take away the armor because of their high pen/stupid HE while losing nothing in the process. 



SnakePliskan #45 Posted Jan 04 2019 - 15:53

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I love the asinine comment of remove Gold so people have to learn to aim. Seriously people? You really think people don't use Gold ammo AND aim?

 

I love the comment it will make people learn the game because they have to learn to flank tough armor targets. Most WG maps have a limited number of restrictive corridors that often make this impossible without losing half your HP getting into position. Then finding out RGN just dumped on you.

 

I love the fools in game chat that start screaming in chat about a player Gold spamming the, Ever notice its right after they die. Almost never is it before hand. Its an excuse people. Its to cover up they got owned while Gold spamming themselves.

 

I love the I don't load or fire all Gold folks. Most I suspect are not being honest. The rest are scared they will not perform well enough to cover the cost of Gold spamming.

 

I love the folks who spout off noobs, 45%ers, Tomatoes are the Gold spammers because they have no skills. Most of the offenders are the best players. Run a hit log check it out yourself.

 

Maps, RGN and piss poor balance by WG Devs make Gold rounds necessary to maintain the crap balance we have in the game.



KingOfBadlands #46 Posted Jan 04 2019 - 16:07

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well said SnakePliskan

SlappedbyRommel #47 Posted Jan 04 2019 - 16:26

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View Postlatvius, on Jan 03 2019 - 22:31, said:

From what I can summarize of your post you are asking why do players complain about tier 8's shooting gold at tier 10 tanks?  Answer is they don't  Players complain about tier 10 tanks shooting gold at tier 8's  (Simplified answer)

 

Bingo nice job you are so damn correct not on in T10 vs T8 but any other game such as T6 vs T8 with T8 spamming gold. Just plain BS with this current MM.

SteelRonin #48 Posted Jan 04 2019 - 17:01

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If you want MoE, use premium ammo.

If you want more personal rating, use premium ammo.

if you want to win more, use premium ammo.

if you want more WN8 so you can be prised as a good player, use premium ammo.

if you want to grind faster, use premium ammo.

 

Premium ammo helps a lot.



Evil_Putin #49 Posted Jan 04 2019 - 17:17

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View Postlatvius, on Jan 03 2019 - 16:31, said:

From what I can summarize of your post you are asking why do players complain about tier 8's shooting gold at tier 10 tanks?  Answer is they don't  Players complain about tier 10 tanks shooting gold at tier 8's  (Simplified answer)

 

They can complain all they want. 1. A t10 will pen a t8 with or without gold, so it shouldn't matter to the t8 in the first place - if you are trading shots w t10's in your t8 you are already doing it wrong. 2. Ain't nobody got time to wait 10+ seconds to reload - you use what is already loaded, i.e. if a jpe100 has a gold shell loaded for the enemy type 5, you can bet you sweet bum he won't be reloading for 25 secs to regular if a squishy scout presents his side in the mean time. 

D1rkjr #50 Posted Jan 04 2019 - 18:36

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Nobody is mad that a tier 8 is shooting gold at their 10 [edited]. They are mad that EVERYONE is shooting gold at anything that has armor more than 50% of the time. Doesnt matter the tier, doesnt matter if they could pen with just a little aiming effort, some people will just shoot you with gold on each shot. It makes tanks that rely on their armor completely pointless and in response to this WG buffed the hell out of armor on tanks like the maus. You are not supposed to be spamming prem shells, the idea of the game is finding weak spots, learning when to shoot, learning how to use your armor right. The prem shells were meant to be so expensive that nobody used them ALL the time but instead people have decided they will spam them even if it means losing money every match which then means to be competitive you also have to do it which means you have to chose between having stats worthy of a good clan and actually making credits. Its just plain game breaking when a tank that makes up for its low speed, dpm, and accuracy by having good armor no longer has good armor because the playerbase cant accept not penning on every surface. Used to be that a hull down or properly angled heavy could hold a corner, enemy tanks had to try to hit a weak spot, bounce, or just wait for them to make a mistake, now they just pound them with prem. This gets arguably even more frustrating when playing a decently armored medium that isnt hard to pen but CAN sometimes bounce shots. Things like the russian mediums. These tanks also get gold spammed and it often makes them equivalent to paper armor but without the mobility. 

 

This trend happened years back and the meta quickly shifted to fast agile unarmored tanks like the leopard 1 and amx 30. These didnt rely on armor at all so the increasing gold spam had no effect on them. Then WG threw in insanely heavy armored japanese heavies which could stop even gold shells which meant armor was actually an option but now anyone who still wasnt gold spamming was up a creek without a paddle. A great example of this spam at its worst is playing a tiger P. You have a big obvious cupola and weak spots on your cheeks so you try your best to get the enemy to shoot your frontnplate instead. Used to be you would bounce shots and some would pen through the weak spots. Now, however, some tier 8 who cant stand the idea of having to try to pen just hits the 2 key and the heat starts flying right through your front plate. The player who got really good at shooting weak spots now does worse than someone who just heat spams with no skill and the player who got really good at hiding weak spots now gets shot right through anyway. 

 

FINALLY,  the other side effect of this has been increased peekaboom tactics. This was always how you played some tanks, fire, and pull into hard cover to reload, but with the much smaller chance of actually stopping shots combined with the HE spamming japanese heavies existing, you now basically have to hide your entire tank on each shot. Angling on a corner is no longer enough. This has the effect of completely  destroying DPM based heavies. Tanks like the black prince for example. Wasnt ever an amazing tank but the idea was it had good armor and made up for its low damage per shot with higher than average DPM. To use that DPM you need to sit and stay aimed at the target and fire as often as possible. I just had to sell this tank because now, even though im facing higher tier tanks, they all feel the need to spam prem shells right through the front. This makes it uselss. It cant stay exposed long enough to apply its dpm because EVERY shot now pens. 

 

There needs to be some reason for people to use a normal shell, some reward for actually aiming for weak spots, some reward for hiding your weak spots becauase the credit difference clearly wasnt working. 

 

With the damage nerf, now a player who uses armor well can avoid being penned by AP dach shot which forces them to use gold or keep trying to hit weak spots which means they will be taking less damage than a player who is being penned reliably by AP. It also means a player who is skilled enough to pen everytime with standard shells and doesnt need to use gold shells is rewarded with doing more damage than the player who either has to or choses to use gold. It means being able to accept burning credits doesnt automatically make you perform better. It means the only way to consistently win fights is to pen with AP as much as possible and only use gold when you have to. 

 

In situations where you had a 90% chance to pen with ap but a 100% chance to pen with apcr, its now possibly a better idea to use AP instead of being able to just burn credits to have a shell thats better with zero downsides. 



D1rkjr #51 Posted Jan 04 2019 - 18:41

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View PostSteelRonin, on Jan 04 2019 - 16:01, said:

If you want MoE, use premium ammo.

If you want more personal rating, use premium ammo.

if you want to win more, use premium ammo.

if you want more WN8 so you can be prised as a good player, use premium ammo.

if you want to grind faster, use premium ammo.

 

Premium ammo helps a lot.

 

this is EXACTLY the problem. To do any of those things you have to spam prem which means you dont make credits without a prem account and even when you do its not much which means you have to spend even more time grinding with a prem tank which eventually starts sucking the fun out of the game because you cant play the tanks you want and also save up credits for a new tank unless you are willing to accept your stats making it look like you are worse than you are which annoyingly means that you simply arent getting into top clans unless you are willing to throw away credit earnings. 

D1rkjr #52 Posted Jan 04 2019 - 18:50

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View Postvonkevin, on Jan 04 2019 - 00:54, said:

 

No, you just want one player to have an advantage simply by pressing "A" or "D" to angle his armor, thereby increasing its effective thickness.  Pressing 2 is the logical counter to that.  Guns always have and always will overcome armor.  Somehow, I guess, the "skill" of pressing A or D is more valuable than the "Skill" of pressing 2.

 

this is ridiculous... armor angling is the entire point of playing a heavy. A heavy is SUPPOSED to have an armor advantage. Being able to angle isnt an unfair advantage,  its the entire point of the game. 

latvius #53 Posted Jan 04 2019 - 19:10

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View PostEvil_Putin, on Jan 04 2019 - 17:17, said:

 

They can complain all they want. 1. A t10 will pen a t8 with or without gold, so it shouldn't matter to the t8 in the first place - if you are trading shots w t10's in your t8 you are already doing it wrong. 2. Ain't nobody got time to wait 10+ seconds to reload - you use what is already loaded, i.e. if a jpe100 has a gold shell loaded for the enemy type 5, you can bet you sweet bum he won't be reloading for 25 secs to regular if a squishy scout presents his side in the mean time. 

 

Stop with the BS, please learn basic facts about the game before you spout off.

T32 turret armor 298

T57 heavy pen is 258/340

WZ111-5 pen is 250/340

And these are just random samples, many tier 10's will not pen a tier 8 with AP depending on where they shoot.  Do you say this to make you feel better about spamming gold?   What's next you need it to mitigate RNG because RNG only effects good players?

All the excuses about shooting gold are shot down by naming one player - Taugrim

 

For your last sentence I haven't seen anyone complaining about getting shot by gold because that is what was loaded.  That's not what is going on it is the full gold spam that has gotten worse over the years because of competition for stats.



KingOfBadlands #54 Posted Jan 04 2019 - 19:35

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View Postlatvius, on Jan 04 2019 - 13:10, said:

 

Stop with the BS, please learn basic facts about the game before you spout off.

T32 turret armor 298

T57 heavy pen is 258/340

WZ111-5 pen is 250/340

And these are just random samples, many tier 10's will not pen a tier 8 with AP depending on where they shoot.  Do you say this to make you feel better about spamming gold?   What's next you need it to mitigate RNG because RNG only effects good players?

All the excuses about shooting gold are shot down by naming one player - Taugrim

 

For your last sentence I haven't seen anyone complaining about getting shot by gold because that is what was loaded.  That's not what is going on it is the full gold spam that has gotten worse over the years because of competition for stats.

 

I play TD, mainly 110E3 and 110E4 I generally shoot at the hard to penetrate spots because it is the area most shown. The T32 turret is tuff as nails to get thru head on even with premium ammunition. I think my penetration is something like 295/375

Grey_ #55 Posted Jan 04 2019 - 19:39

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View Postlatvius, on Jan 04 2019 - 08:12, said:

 

Nobody ever complained about this, the current problem is players using nothing but gold rounds and subsidizing that with cash.  

 

This is exactly the issue and I agree with it, though I have one minor correction. "the current problem is MOST players". Some really good players have large stashes of gold and credits earned over the years in Clan Wars and Tournaments so their's is either a sunk cost or they're sitting on a huge pile of resources and can shoot gold because "why not". The issue that creates is the "have nots" being at a disadvantage to the aforementioned and then having to spend real dollars for credits to achieve parity.

 

If this was not the case then wargaming would not offer $$$s for silver, because they certainly didn't originally when premium ammunition was only available for gold, they began selling credits for dollars after they began selling premium consumables and ammunition for credits, which is no coincidence.



the_Deadly_Bulb #56 Posted Jan 04 2019 - 19:44

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View PostGrey_, on Jan 04 2019 - 10:39, said:

 

This is exactly the issue and I agree with it, though I have one minor correction. "the current problem is MOST players". Some really good players have large stashes of gold and credits earned over the years in Clan Wars and Tournaments so their's is either a sunk cost or they're sitting on a huge pile of resources and can shoot gold because "why not". The issue that creates is the "have nots" being at a disadvantage to the aforementioned and then having to spend real dollars for credits to achieve parity.

 

If this was not the case then wargaming would not offer $$$s for silver, because they certainly didn't originally when premium ammunition was only available for gold, they began selling credits for dollars after they began selling premium consumables and ammunition for credits, which is no coincidence.

 

They've sold credits for as long as I've played.

In that same period I've seen no increase in prammo.

Prammo has always been flying around in great quantity.

In March it'll be 5 years playing for me.

 

When I started I used to buy credits too, not for prammo, because a pair of binos was 500k. 

Many players with a few years in apparently don't recall how difficult it was to earn 500k in sub T-III.

 

I get shot with prammo a lot, many times by players as good or better than many of the "aim and flank" crowd.

Its not something only players with "little skill" do, its commonplace.

Most of those who make the bold (and unsupportable) claim that they never load or shoot gold are lying sacks of manure.

 

Why is it that its "low skill" to shoot prammo, but somehow the pinnacle of "skill" to grind to and play an ubber armoured heavy?

Why is it wrong to pen an ubber armoured tank?

Why is anyone concerned with how many credits others are spending?

 

The answer to all 3 is rooted in butt hurt.


Edited by the_Deadly_Bulb, Jan 04 2019 - 19:56.


D1rkjr #57 Posted Jan 04 2019 - 19:46

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View PostKingOfBadlands, on Jan 04 2019 - 18:35, said:

 

I play TD, mainly 110E3 and 110E4 I generally shoot at the hard to penetrate spots because it is the area most shown. The T32 turret is tuff as nails to get thru head on even with premium ammunition. I think my penetration is something like 295/375

 

"I generally shoot the hard to penetrate spots"

 

 

... dont. 

 

This is the problem. The people are exposing these spots more than the weak spots on purpose because they know how to play. By using gold to fly through on the strong points you are effectively side stepping the game mechanics. Spamming gold shells is a tier 10 TD with 295 AP pen is what a lot of people do and its why this nerf was needed. 

 

I dont know if you are spamming gold or not but if you are using gold from a tier 10 TD on a tier 8 heavy you are the reason people are mad at gold. 

 

If a spot is sooo well armored that you need gold to pen even with a two tiers higher TD then the game was never intending for that spot to be penned. The tank's balance and playstyle depended on that being impossible or at least very hard to pen. The front of the T32 for example is intended to be safe to show. The tank's playstyle hinges on being able to hull down and remain fairly safe. If you just gold right on through then the tank is rendered useless 



pafman #58 Posted Jan 04 2019 - 19:50

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View PostscHnuuudle_bop, on Jan 04 2019 - 00:40, said:

I saw the greatest advice last year.

 

Get rid of your hit log, or at least the portion that tells you what type of ammo is hitting you.

 

Why knowing what type is hitting remains a mystery to me. 

 

If all you know is that you are getting hit, premium ammo concerns just fade away.

 

let me translate, "i don't like to know why i was penned because a pe....... oh look! a quarter!"

KingOfBadlands #59 Posted Jan 04 2019 - 19:58

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View PostD1rkjr, on Jan 04 2019 - 13:46, said:

 

"I generally shoot the hard to penetrate spots"

 

 

... dont. 

 

This is the problem. The people are exposing these spots more than the weak spots on purpose because they know how to play. By using gold to fly through on the strong points you are effectively side stepping the game mechanics. Spamming gold shells is a tier 10 TD with 295 AP pen is what a lot of people do and its why this nerf was needed. 

 

I dont know if you are spamming gold or not but if you are using gold from a tier 10 TD on a tier 8 heavy you are the reason people are mad at gold. 

 

If a spot is sooo well armored that you need gold to pen even with a two tiers higher TD then the game was never intending for that spot to be penned. The tank's balance and playstyle depended on that being impossible or at least very hard to pen. The front of the T32 for example is intended to be safe to show. The tank's playstyle hinges on being able to hull down and remain fairly safe. If you just gold right on through then the tank is rendered useless 

 

Those hard to penetrate spots do sooo much damage to crew and modules. I thought that was to point. I've never heard a team mate complain over me stopping a Maus, Badger or any other hard to stop tank.

KingOfBadlands #60 Posted Jan 04 2019 - 19:59

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or t32 playing pee a boo




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