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Three Arty


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Poll: Number of Atry on a Team (136 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 100 battle in order to participate this poll.

One arty per team

  1. Yes (91 votes [66.91%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 66.91%

  2. No (45 votes [33.09%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 33.09%

Two arty per team

  1. Yes (50 votes [36.76%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 36.76%

  2. No (86 votes [63.24%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 63.24%

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tanopasman62 #21 Posted Jan 07 2019 - 04:22

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I'd rather put a cap on TDs instead.

Moridin_707 #22 Posted Jan 07 2019 - 04:54

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Five arty. Only way to play

3nr0n #23 Posted Jan 07 2019 - 08:26

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When the Chaffee and the T-50-2 were scout tanks (years ago, I forget when they changed it) there was no cap on the number of arty per side and there would be random battles with 5 or more per side in tier 10 battles so 3 per side is acceptable.

Ethan_Enjoys_CBT #24 Posted Jan 07 2019 - 12:48

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1 arty or remove, make high risk high reward pushes better.

ddraig_goch_ #25 Posted Jan 07 2019 - 14:35

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I think arty should play once a day on an all arty game. Let them see for themselves, how useless they are without a team to get them their points.

SlappedbyRommel #26 Posted Jan 07 2019 - 14:48

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Just a note I played arty for really the first time in a T5 Grille with 2 other arty and it was devastating since we focused on the same tanks maybe by accident I felt sorry for the guys in those heavies. I know I have been in their position hating arty and the only reason I played arty is to do the campaign missions. I am not the greatest playing arty but in a few games I was hammering the heavies hard ended up with approx. 1900 damage in 1 game. Arty can quickly change a game and slow a push if done right - maybe a thought make maps bigger for more movement?

Kliphie #27 Posted Jan 07 2019 - 14:52

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View PostProfessionalFinn, on Jan 06 2019 - 20:16, said:

 

Yup, just played another one of these boring battles (see screenshot).  Just a camp-fest, call it glorified Blitz.  Need more arty, not less.

 

 

 

These would have more credence if there was a followup screencap showing a long drawn out game.  This could have turned out to be a 5 min 15-14 game or a 15 min draw.  And make the map bigger!

ProfessionalFinn #28 Posted Jan 07 2019 - 15:49

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View PostKliphie, on Jan 07 2019 - 05:52, said:

 

These would have more credence if there was a followup screencap showing a long drawn out game.  This could have turned out to be a 5 min 15-14 game or a 15 min draw.  And make the map bigger!

Proof has little currancy here.  This battle was a boring slugfest.  Usually are with this type of armor mix.



thorus08 #29 Posted Jan 07 2019 - 16:13

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View PostProfessionalFinn, on Jan 07 2019 - 09:49, said:

Proof has little currancy here.  This battle was a boring slugfest.  Usually are with this type of armor mix.

 

Except it does for those of us that are legitimately interested in other peoples' experiences.  Otherwise, anyone could post a SS of any matchup and say "see, boring!" seconds after the countdown finished.  For instance, in this SS you haven't even moved yet (no exhaust), and there is still a TD lumbering up to his/her cozy sniper nest on an absolutely tiny map.  It makes it appear like you are just taking an SS of whenever you see this particular loadout with no interest in how the game actually plays out.  Not to mention, the map played was a  high tier mines game, which I find to be a boring slugfest at higher tiers regardless of the presence of SPG's or not.  Even if was a boring slugfest, it's difficult to say it was because of the lack of SPG's and not the map itself, at least in this case(and we don't even know that it was a boring slugfest, based on what you've provided).  You've already decided on the outcome before the match.  It's no different than an XVM user saying "loss" during the countdown.



ProfessionalFinn #30 Posted Jan 07 2019 - 18:12

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View Postthorus08, on Jan 07 2019 - 07:13, said:

 

Except it does for those of us that are legitimately interested in other peoples' experiences.  Otherwise, anyone could post a SS of any matchup and say "see, boring!" seconds after the countdown finished.  For instance, in this SS you haven't even moved yet (no exhaust), and there is still a TD lumbering up to his/her cozy sniper nest on an absolutely tiny map.  It makes it appear like you are just taking an SS of whenever you see this particular loadout with no interest in how the game actually plays out.  Not to mention, the map played was a  high tier mines game, which I find to be a boring slugfest at higher tiers regardless of the presence of SPG's or not.  Even if was a boring slugfest, it's difficult to say it was because of the lack of SPG's and not the map itself, at least in this case(and we don't even know that it was a boring slugfest, based on what you've provided).  You've already decided on the outcome before the match.  It's no different than an XVM user saying "loss" during the countdown.

Boring is a subjective word.  To me, the one who played in this particular battle, it was boring.  Hopefully you can accept my opinion.



BillT #31 Posted Jan 07 2019 - 19:37

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Didn't vote - slanted poll.

 

Restricting arty below 3 per game will cause long queue times -- we saw that in Frontlines, where only 10% of the tanks could be SPGs and arty players frequently had to sit in queue for over 5 minutes to get a match.  The current limit (3 out of 15) is 20% and arty sometimes gets slightly longer queue times (but usually < 1 minute, and I'll accept 1 minute queues.).  2/15ths is only 13%, so there will probably be queues of 2 minutes or longer; 1/15th is only 7% and will guarantee multi-minute queues.

 

If I have to endure a extra wait time compared to other classes  to play a class that's always been in the game and in which I've invested heavily, I deserve compensation.  It's frustrating, wastes my time and burns my personal reserves.  What are you offering?



BillT #32 Posted Jan 07 2019 - 19:38

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View Post3nr0n, on Jan 07 2019 - 02:26, said:

Only the dead have seen the end of war - Plato

 

Plato couldn't have said that if he'd been Norse. :-) 



BillT #33 Posted Jan 07 2019 - 19:43

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View PostDouble_O7, on Jan 06 2019 - 21:18, said:

View Postnuclearguy931, on Jan 06 2019 - 20:15, said:

 

arty a side doesn't happen 75% of the time.

 

Sources please 

 

You didn't ask the OP for sources when he made the claim that 3/side does happen 75% of the time.  And claiming the opposite is clearly more probable. (Maybe it happens 76% of the time, or 74%.).  So let's not pretend you're dedicated to factual data.



BillT #34 Posted Jan 07 2019 - 19:50

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View PostProfessionalFinn, on Jan 07 2019 - 12:12, said:

Boring is a subjective word.  To me, the one who played in this particular battle, it was boring.  Hopefully you can accept my opinion.

 

Sure.  But if you don't show them a replay to validate your claim, they have no reason to respect your opinion.  It's like the argument about what "camping" means.  If we don't have the same definition, we can't agree whether camping is bad.

thorus08 #35 Posted Jan 07 2019 - 20:01

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View PostProfessionalFinn, on Jan 07 2019 - 12:12, said:

Boring is a subjective word.  To me, the one who played in this particular battle, it was boring.  Hopefully you can accept my opinion.

 

I think anyone reasonable accepts your opinion that a match without SPG's is boring to you.  It's when you take the time to take a screenshot (several over a large number of posts recently) where you state something along the lines of "just played another one of these boring battles" that others view it as evidence that the battle was actually boring.  The confusion, in my opinion, is that you made a preconceived conclusion of the battle being boring before you even played it.  If you are just using the screenshot to communicate your opinion that ALL battles without SPG's are boring, you could do so much more clearly (and easily) by just stating it in words("I think any battle without SPG's is boring", clear and doesn't take away from anyone else).  Using a screenshot like this sort of seems like you are using it as a premise for a certain conclusion and skipping everything in between.

ProfessionalFinn #36 Posted Jan 07 2019 - 20:37

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View Postthorus08, on Jan 07 2019 - 11:01, said:

 

I think anyone reasonable accepts your opinion that a match without SPG's is boring to you.  It's when you take the time to take a screenshot (several over a large number of posts recently) where you state something along the lines of "just played another one of these boring battles" that others view it as evidence that the battle was actually boring.  The confusion, in my opinion, is that you made a preconceived conclusion of the battle being boring before you even played it.  If you are just using the screenshot to communicate your opinion that ALL battles without SPG's are boring, you could do so much more clearly (and easily) by just stating it in words("I think any battle without SPG's is boring", clear and doesn't take away from anyone else).  Using a screenshot like this sort of seems like you are using it as a premise for a certain conclusion and skipping everything in between.

 

Here is example of some of the inane comments on this board. 

I state: "I like to play arty."  My opinion

Response: "No you don't, everyone hates arty."  This is a common response on this forum. 

 

Another example

 

I state:  "This is a screen shot demonstrating a mix imbalance that led to a boring battle."  My opinion

Response: "I demand proof that it was indeed boring."  A common response on this forum.

 

Its OK to hold an opinion.  One man's meat is another man's poison.  No proof necessary.



thorus08 #37 Posted Jan 07 2019 - 20:59

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View PostProfessionalFinn, on Jan 07 2019 - 14:37, said:

 

Here is example of some of the inane comments on this board. 

I state: "I like to play arty."  My opinion

Response: "No you don't, everyone hates arty."  This is a common response on this forum. 

 

Another example

 

I state:  "This is a screen shot demonstrating a mix imbalance that led to a boring battle."  My opinion

Response: "I demand proof that it was indeed boring."  A common response on this forum.

 

Its OK to hold an opinion.  One man's meat is another man's poison.  No proof necessary.

Hmmm, let's simplify I guess.

 

Let's say your spouse chooses a movie for you both to attend.  It's a romantic comedy...and let's say you don't like romantic comedies.

 

It's like being asked about the movie and you responding, "it's a boring movie and I didn't like it", but you hadn't actually seen it yet.

 

Your preconceived opinion about romantic comedies led you to state what your conclusion was about a specific movie before you saw it.  While watching the movie, you could have enjoyed it, you may not have enjoyed it, or you could have found it boring.  The point is, many people are going to be confused if you say you watched the ads(the countdown in this particular match) before the movie and determined that your preconceived opinion on the movie itself is correct because of the ads.  The ads and movie, for the most part, are mutually exclusive.  The lineup of a match doesn't show how fluid or stagnant a match was.  How fluid or stagnant a match plays out shows exactly how fluid or stagnant that particular match played out, not a screenshot taken seconds after the countdown.  As for fluid or stagnant and being boring or not, that will all be a matter of opinion of course.

 

 

It's exactly how most people are going to view you posting a screenshot, seconds after countdown, to be content that somehow portrays that the battle was a boring slugfest.  It doesn't take away from your opinion that you feel all battles without SPG's are boring, but it certainly doesn't help others understand why you think so, because it doesn't actually show that the battle was boring.  It could have been a landslide 3-minute battle for all anyone knows.  It just seems like an exercise of propaganda to "appear" as evidence without actually being claimed to be evidence.  

 

P.s.  The romantic comedy example is of a personal nature since my wife uses it against me.  She will never find out that I've used it on the WOT forums.


Edited by thorus08, Jan 07 2019 - 21:01.


ProfessionalFinn #38 Posted Jan 07 2019 - 21:13

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View Postthorus08, on Jan 07 2019 - 11:59, said:

Hmmm, let's simplify I guess.

 

Let's say your spouse chooses a movie for you both to attend.  It's a romantic comedy...and let's say you don't like romantic comedies.

 

It's like being asked about the movie and you responding, "it's a boring movie and I didn't like it", but you hadn't actually seen it yet.

 

Your preconceived opinion about romantic comedies led you to state what your conclusion was about a specific movie before you saw it.  While watching the movie, you could have enjoyed it, you may not have enjoyed it, or you could have found it boring.  The point is, many people are going to be confused if you say you watched the ads(the countdown in this particular match) before the movie and determined that your preconceived opinion on the movie itself is correct because of the ads.  The ads and movie, for the most part, are mutually exclusive.  The lineup of a match doesn't show how fluid or stagnant a match was.  How fluid or stagnant a match plays out shows exactly how fluid or stagnant that particular match played out, not a screenshot taken seconds after the countdown.  As for fluid or stagnant and being boring or not, that will all be a matter of opinion of course.

 

 

It's exactly how most people are going to view you posting a screenshot, seconds after countdown, to be content that somehow portrays that the battle was a boring slugfest.  It doesn't take away from your opinion that you feel all battles without SPG's are boring, but it certainly doesn't help others understand why you think so, because it doesn't actually show that the battle was boring.  It could have been a landslide 3-minute battle for all anyone knows.  It just seems like an exercise of propaganda to "appear" as evidence without actually being claimed to be evidence.  

 

P.s.  The romantic comedy example is of a personal nature since my wife uses it against me.  She will never find out that I've used it on the WOT forums.

 

Good post, funny analogy.  It figures, I do not like romantic comedies (like You got Mail).

 

Problem is you swung and missed badly.  To use your analogy, I saw the movie.  It sucked and confirmed my opinion that romantic comedies are boring.  

A suggestion: Speak for yourself.  Be a big boy.  I do consider what you think but reject your "most people" representation.

 



thorus08 #39 Posted Jan 07 2019 - 21:24

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View PostProfessionalFinn, on Jan 07 2019 - 15:13, said:

Problem is you swung and missed badly. 

 

But I didn't.  The point just seems to be going over your head.

 

It's like posting a picture of the movie poster on the forum and saying "look it's boring".  The poster of the movie doesn't show that the movie was boring, bad, or good.  

 

Posting a screenshot of a battle seconds after countdown does exactly NOTHING to show how the battle played out(without even mentioning the word boring).  That's the point.  

 

You also missed the point above that if the screenshot does accomplish exactly nothing to see how the battle played out, that posting it, to begin with, is ineffective in comparison to simply stating your opinion in words.  

 

Edited to add:

Block Quote

 A suggestion: Speak for yourself.  Be a big boy.  I do consider what you think but reject your "most people" representation.

 

Really?  Be a big boy?  Insults now? lol.

If that's how you would like me to treat you I'd be happy to change my approach with you.


Edited by thorus08, Jan 07 2019 - 21:27.


ProfessionalFinn #40 Posted Jan 07 2019 - 21:33

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View PostBillT, on Jan 07 2019 - 10:50, said:

 

Sure.  But if you don't show them a replay to validate your claim, they have no reason to respect your opinion.  It's like the argument about what "camping" means.  If we don't have the same definition, we can't agree whether camping is bad.

 

Bill, I don't care if "they" respect my claim.  My claim is just my opinion.  I do care if you respect my claim.

We agree, terms like "camping" and "spamming gold" are subjective, with no standard and impossible to define.  Just like the term boring.  

 

A side note, I attended an MIT sponsored technology event some time ago.  Expedia did a presentation with some content about "SPAM."  Expedia actually gets complaints from ticket-holders who opt in to get Expedia email updates on departure and arrival changes.   The complaint:  Expedia is SPAMMING them.   






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