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German Tier 6 to 8 Heavy tanks, Heavy TD, medium tank Problem in This current meta.

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tanopasman62 #21 Posted Jan 09 2019 - 06:35

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View PostLeader_H, on Jan 09 2019 - 03:48, said:

tried the VK3001P and it was surprisingly good even with very bad crews. It is fast and hard-hitting once fully upgraded, trades shots really well and can bounce an occasional shot. Though I'll agree that tanks like Tiger II are really sad in most maps.

 

It can go hulldown pretty well when top tier, turret front is 200mm effective and the cheeks are at autobounce angle, just keep moving back and forth to protect your cuppola.

Firemoth #22 Posted Jan 09 2019 - 11:26

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View PostAdamTheWolf55, on Jan 08 2019 - 03:36, said:

the German Heavy TD line ok so Jagpanther armour is well angeled the problem is 80mm of frontal is not enough to bounce few guns the max armour when its using its 8- gun the armour lvl is only 145 to 150 witch is very bad for a Tier 7 Heavy TD the Tier 8 how ever needs a hull armour buff same goes to Tier 9 jagtiger.

 

JP isnt a 'heavy TD' and its not on the 'heavy TD line'. its a casemate TD on the casemate TD line. its frontal armour is average, with more armour than the T-34-2g ft and T25 AT and less than the AMX46, SU100m1. its a perfectly good TD that has no real downsides (for a casemate TD), with a punchy gun that handles well, decent mobility and decent armour. its not the best in class for any single area, but then it also does not sacrifice any other areas.

 

T8 ferdi - its a casemate TD, that has 1500 hp. you dont rely on armour to tank for you, you rely on its huge hit point pool to trade shots and wear people down. the armour is there just so that you can waste peoples time as they aim at your weakspots.

T8 JP2 - its superstructure is stronger than the ferdi so it promotes better hulldown, and it needs it cause its hit points and hull armour are pure garbage

 

T9 JT - lol, this tank does not need a buff. 2100 HP is equal to or better than most tier 10 TDs. the gun hits hard, the DPM is high, the handling is excellent. the armour is just enough to get by, with a good superstructure to hulldown on against lower tiers (it sees tier 7s) and enough HP to fight tier 10s to a standstill.



DarkDaddy #23 Posted Jan 09 2019 - 13:47

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Past tier 6 the German line suffers from over-tiering.  The tier 6 Tiger 131 and Pudel (panther) show this to be the case.  

 

Giving them IRL penetration would help to balance the whole German line.  Current penetration is for plate at 30 degrees, a loss of about 15 percemt of pen.  Other nations use perpendicular plate.  US balistic testing of German guns using perpendicular plate bears out the gap in performance is due to the test methodology.  US thought the 75mm PAK 40 had over 125mm of pen at 100 m, equivalent to M1A1 gun.  This shows WG anti-German bias, as does simple physics.  

 

DarkDaddy

 

 



Silverleaf_Nightraven #24 Posted Jan 09 2019 - 15:51

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View PostAvalon304, on Jan 07 2019 - 15:21, said:

 

 

Both of the Tigers are ok where they are. The Tiger I is probably the 2nd best heavy tank at tier 7 (behind only the T29) and is more than capable of shooting its way out of just about any situation due to its amazing DPM.

 

The Tiger II, while not anywhere close to the best tier 8 heavy is pretty adequate for a tier 8 heavy tank. Its gun is great, and it can work its armor if you know what youre doing. Its biggest downside is its lack of acceleration. Also using the M4 45 as a template for anything is a terrible idea, because the M4 45 is one of the worst tier 7 heavy tanks.

 

The Panther, with the l/100 7,5cm gun has 198mm of penetration, which at tier 7, is actually pretty good for a medium. I actually think, across all tier 7 mediums the Panther has the highest standard penetration at tier and 135 damage isnt far off of many of the other small gunned tier 7 mediums. Even its base DPM of just a little over 2k is pretty ok for tier.

 

The Panther II at tier 8 is a little more worse off, but the 8,8cm l/100 has great penetration and middle of the pack DPM. Its adequate.

 

Also... no, reintroducing the WT E 100 is not a good idea. It is, in fact, a terrible idea.

Tiger II is over tiered.The AMX was to show the fact that the Tiger II is over tiered. It is not my fault the French have not done anything right but surrender since before Napoleon. Current events bear that out. The German lines, along with some American and British lines, need reworked and updated. Power creep has taken its toll. Not including the Nerf batting of units like the Marder II and the American Hellcat.



SteelRonin #25 Posted Jan 09 2019 - 16:33

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View PostAvalon304, on Jan 07 2019 - 19:21, said:

 

 

Both of the Tigers are ok where they are. The Tiger I is probably the 2nd best heavy tank at tier 7 (behind only the T29) and is more than capable of shooting its way out of just about any situation due to its amazing DPM.

 

The Tiger II, while not anywhere close to the best tier 8 heavy is pretty adequate for a tier 8 heavy tank. Its gun is great, and it can work its armor if you know what youre doing. Its biggest downside is its lack of acceleration. Also using the M4 45 as a template for anything is a terrible idea, because the M4 45 is one of the worst tier 7 heavy tanks.

 

The Panther, with the l/100 7,5cm gun has 198mm of penetration, which at tier 7, is actually pretty good for a medium. I actually think, across all tier 7 mediums the Panther has the highest standard penetration at tier and 135 damage isnt far off of many of the other small gunned tier 7 mediums. Even its base DPM of just a little over 2k is pretty ok for tier.

 

The Panther II at tier 8 is a little more worse off, but the 8,8cm l/100 has great penetration and middle of the pack DPM. Its adequate.

 

Also... no, reintroducing the WT E 100 is not a good idea. It is, in fact, a terrible idea.

 

Nope, DPM is not the meta, every tank with high DPM does not fit in the current meta except for the E25. Tiger 1 is overtiered with tons of HP to compensate it and a high DPM that works in very especific situations and moments.

 

Tiger 2 is also overtiered and shadowed by every tier 8 soviet HT, IS-3 > Tiger 2, IS-6 >= IS-3, Defender > IS-6, IS-3A > Defender...........IS-3A >>>> Tiger 2. The Tiger 2 is fighting the tanks that were built to replace the tanks that were built to fight the Tiger 2.

 

The Panther with that needle gun is another example of overtier. The Pudel is an awesome tank because is the place where german Panther should be.

 

The panther 2 and panther 8,8, the Ferdinand too have no place in this game anymore, the powercreep buried them into the ground.

 

Bringing the WTE100 into the discusion is the most stupid thing I have ever read here, the tank was broken and even if WG adds it to the game again, It won't change the fact that the entire nation is underpowered as heck..



Deputy276 #26 Posted Jan 09 2019 - 16:40

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Wow...nobody mentions the VK100.01P. It kicks butt at tier 8 and can hold it's own at tier 9-10. 

SOB_Tenato #27 Posted Jan 09 2019 - 16:56

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If you feel German line need some care, go play UK and then let me know. Up to T9 all you get is a painful, unenjoyable and slow grind. And even then with Tortoise you get as second gun the one used by the FV4202... pens nothing, does 220 damage when pens something and you get T10 games all the time, so its expensive in premium rounds. UK tanks have no hull armor. Turret front and DPM are their strenght but in general have low alpha.

Edited by SOB_Tenato, Jan 09 2019 - 16:59.


DerJager #28 Posted Jan 09 2019 - 22:44

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It strikes me that the strongest defense one can mount for the German tree, outside isolated vehicles, is that they're not all terrible, and you can do alright (most common adjective on the boards for describing German vehicles, just saying).

 

The E75 and perhaps E50 are the closest tanks they have to being solidly top notch. The E75 has a good enough armor profile that it can cover most of the weak spots in most situations (and the community is dumb enough to be generally ignorant of the one that physically can't be hidden while firing), yet retains enough weak spots and shortcomings that they can't really nerf it much without it being a blatantly racist "we don't like German stuff" move.

 

And the E50 is crap in everything but it's view range, and it's idiotic, ludicrously high DPM and machine-gun rof. This thing is the Tier 9 E25, only it can't hide for crap. That one facet definitely would be nerf-worthy if more people actually played the E50 line.

 

 

However there's nothing anyone has brought up to address the fact that, for the most part, the Germans are only good situationally. Broadly speaking, WG has decided they're rear-line snipers, inherently relying on one's team mates and on the terrain itself to provide a situation in which the tanks can fill their role.

 

However this line of thinking is crippled by two glaring holes.

 

1) your team is outside of your control, and your skill cannot affect how they set up the situation in which you will be attempting to play.

 

2) map design

Most maps are horribly poorly suited to a ranged support play style. That's why we have WT's playing peek-a-boom with their rear mounted cannons on what is allegedly a stealth sniper line.

 

We have generally small maps where long-range support means red-line camping, maps where the main brawling areas are behind a [edited]dog-leg or a curve, blatantly meant to prevent sniping.

 

And many cases there are physical terrain features that prevent sniping, even assuming an enemy was being stupid and grossly out of position.

 

 

The reality is that, for the current map design, everything needs to be a brawler for it to be balanced.

 

 

Additionally, I'm noticing a lot of outstanding performance being used as a defense of the vehicles. Exceptions are exactly that; exceptions. The average performance for the average player is what should be used as the metric for determining what the average capabilities of a vehicle are.

 

Any unicum's data should be disregarded out of hand for the simple reason that their personal contribution as the driver has far and away outstripped any shortcomings of the vehicle itself. If they want to be included, then their mean performance in all vehicles needs to be the baseline against which any SPECIFIC vehicle is compared. That is to say, if our friend McUnicumSealClubber has an average WR of 62%, and in the Tiger II he is only able to hit 59%, that does not mean that the Tiger II is just fine because it's capable of 59%WR. What that means is that the Tiger II, even in the hands of the best players in the game, is underperforming by a statistically significant factor. 



DerJager #29 Posted Jan 09 2019 - 23:03

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My recommendations:

 

Tier 6: fine as is

 

Tier 7:

Tiger I gets the 105mm L/52

Tiger P gets 200mm turret armor and lower terrain resistance.

Panther I gets the 120mm armor on the stock turret, 200mm on the schmalturm, the 88mm L/71, and the 750hp engine off the Panther II.

 

Jagdpanther gets the 105mm L/68 and the armor slope is slightly increased.

 

 

Tier 8: Tiger II gets its 185mm turret as it's stock turret, a new turret with 220mm on the face and 100mm on the sides.

 

VK 4502A is given the 105mm L/68. The trade off is extra speed in exchange for less armor instead of less firepower (which makes far more sense).

 

Panther II: gets a Panther I profile turret as stock with 160mm armor, 220mm on the schmalturm, and the 900hp engine off the E50.

 

Indienpanzer: give it 4200 DPM all-up, boost the camo values.

 

Jagdpanther II: increase the slope of the hull armor by 15 degrees. Don't add any weak spots; make it a German Su 101.

 

 

Step two: add a new Minsk map, set amidst the height of the German blitzkrieg, featuring bombed out capital building and a burning Belarusian flag.

 

Step three: Ostfront 1956

 

Step four: collect the tears off of the Russian server from their tanks suddenly not being unchanged, and use it in a liquid cooling system for the WoWP servers to get better performance. 



Avalon304 #30 Posted Jan 09 2019 - 23:13

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View PostSteelRonin, on Jan 09 2019 - 08:33, said:

 

Nope, DPM is not the meta, every tank with high DPM does not fit in the current meta except for the E25. Tiger 1 is overtiered with tons of HP to compensate it and a high DPM that works in very especific situations and moments.

 

Tiger 2 is also overtiered and shadowed by every tier 8 soviet HT, IS-3 > Tiger 2, IS-6 >= IS-3, Defender > IS-6, IS-3A > Defender...........IS-3A >>>> Tiger 2. The Tiger 2 is fighting the tanks that were built to replace the tanks that were built to fight the Tiger 2.

 

The Panther with that needle gun is another example of overtier. The Pudel is an awesome tank because is the place where german Panther should be.

 

The panther 2 and panther 8,8, the Ferdinand too have no place in this game anymore, the powercreep buried them into the ground.

 

Bringing the WTE100 into the discusion is the most stupid thing I have ever read here, the tank was broken and even if WG adds it to the game again, It won't change the fact that the entire nation is underpowered as heck..

 

I mean youre wrong, but thats ok. Both about the tanks and about DPMs place in the meta.

 

Literally every tank listed is adequate at tier. I 3 marked the Tiger I in the current meta by just driving at people and DPMing them in the face. It was incredibly easy, and winning was just a bonus. The Tigers DPM is enough to get it out of most bad situations. The Tiger II, while its not the DPM machine has a gun that can pull off the siliest shots, because it handles really well. The Tiger II is adequate at tier 8, while not being the best, (and the IS-6 is hot garbage, and way worse than the Tiger II. The IS-3A is similarly garbage. But beyond that tanks like the IS-3 and Defender are better than every other tier 8 heavy, not just the Tiger II).

 

The Panther is also fine at tier 7 with the l/100. It is a perfectly adequate tier 7 medium, just like the Comet and small gun Leo.

 

The Panther II, even with the 88 l/100 is adequate at tier. Yea, the Panther 8,8 has some issues (mainly in the gun area), and the Ferdi has always been trash, but for the most part, despite people not liking it, the German nation is actually pretty ok if you have any measure of skill and half of a brain.

 

 

View PostSilverleaf_Nightraven, on Jan 09 2019 - 07:51, said:

Tiger II is over tiered.The AMX was to show the fact that the Tiger II is over tiered. It is not my fault the French have not done anything right but surrender since before Napoleon. Current events bear that out. The German lines, along with some American and British lines, need reworked and updated. Power creep has taken its toll. Not including the Nerf batting of units like the Marder II and the American Hellcat.

 

 

I mean it isnt though. The Tiger II is fine where it is. Im currently playing it, in the current meta and see no issues with it.



DerJager #31 Posted Jan 09 2019 - 23:25

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View PostAvalon304, on Jan 09 2019 - 14:13, said:

 

I mean youre wrong, but thats ok. Both about the tanks and about DPMs place in the meta.

 

Literally every tank listed is adequate at tier. I 3 marked the Tiger I in the current meta by just driving at people and DPMing them in the face. It was incredibly easy, and winning was just a bonus. The Tigers DPM is enough to get it out of most bad situations. The Tiger II, while its not the DPM machine has a gun that can pull off the siliest shots, because it handles really well. The Tiger II is adequate at tier 8, while not being the best, (and the IS-6 is hot garbage, and way worse than the Tiger II. The IS-3A is similarly garbage. But beyond that tanks like the IS-3 and Defender are better than every other tier 8 heavy, not just the Tiger II).

 

The Panther is also fine at tier 7 with the l/100. It is a perfectly adequate tier 7 medium, just like the Comet and small gun Leo.

 

The Panther II, even with the 88 l/100 is adequate at tier. Yea, the Panther 8,8 has some issues (mainly in the gun area), and the Ferdi has always been trash, but for the most part, despite people not liking it, the German nation is actually pretty ok if you have any measure of skill and half of a brain.

 

 

 

 

I mean it isnt though. The Tiger II is fine where it is. Im currently playing it, in the current meta and see no issues with it.

 

You're also an exceptional player. Your personal opinion on any tank when facing plebs is irrelevant.

 

More to the point, you actively hamper WG's efforts to balance the game when you do craplike this.

 

 

The closest you, personally will ever get to having your personal data be useful to balancing is taking your performance in a specific vehicle compared to your average performance. And even that doesn't guarantee a good picture.

 

 

I swear, you guys might be good at a clicky tank game, but you're morons at statistical analysis. 



MI_LAD #32 Posted Jan 10 2019 - 02:55

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View PostAvalon304, on Jan 09 2019 - 23:13, said:

 

I mean youre wrong, but thats ok. Both about the tanks and about DPMs place in the meta.

 

Literally every tank listed is adequate at tier. I 3 marked the Tiger I in the current meta by just driving at people and DPMing them in the face. It was incredibly easy, and winning was just a bonus. The Tigers DPM is enough to get it out of most bad situations. The Tiger II, while its not the DPM machine has a gun that can pull off the siliest shots, because it handles really well. The Tiger II is adequate at tier 8, while not being the best, (and the IS-6 is hot garbage, and way worse than the Tiger II. The IS-3A is similarly garbage. But beyond that tanks like the IS-3 and Defender are better than every other tier 8 heavy, not just the Tiger II).

 

The Panther is also fine at tier 7 with the l/100. It is a perfectly adequate tier 7 medium, just like the Comet and small gun Leo.

 

The Panther II, even with the 88 l/100 is adequate at tier. Yea, the Panther 8,8 has some issues (mainly in the gun area), and the Ferdi has always been trash, but for the most part, despite people not liking it, the German nation is actually pretty ok if you have any measure of skill and half of a brain.

 

 

 

 

I mean it isnt though. The Tiger II is fine where it is. Im currently playing it, in the current meta and see no issues with it.

thats right everything is fine and balanced - can you remember a german tank that got buffed besides the maus ? the pta 2 years ago everything else got adjusted for the worse 

 



_Red_Saaryn_ #33 Posted Jan 10 2019 - 03:14

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German td line is godly at t8 and up. You wont feel tier 8 hell in a german td. But t10 german td is crap at least the grille 15. In paper it SHOULD be the godly sniper anyone eould ever want. But in practice... let me give you this example. You are in an OIexp, you are packing the derp gun in that tank and across the map there is a small light tank parking on a bush. You dont see it but you blindshot with your derper and...TA DA! you automatically have more accuracy that this useless tank at almost point blank. Thats hoe useless it is.  You would give that tank 7xx alpha and below average td pen? It is fekking useless if you can never labd a single fekking shot!. In grille 15 wg showed hoe much they hate german tanks, on paper it should be awesome but it isnt. Is just a painfully annoying tank that isnt worth crap. And it is even worse if rngesus decided that it hates you. Now as an end line tank is crap but the td line itself is all worth only because it has rhm.b and the t9 other tank i forgot the name. Those tanks are any t10 nightmare, specially with the derp gun

Trauglodyte #34 Posted Jan 10 2019 - 14:56

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View PostAvalon304, on Jan 09 2019 - 23:13, said:

 

I mean youre wrong, but thats ok. Both about the tanks and about DPMs place in the meta.

 

Literally every tank listed is adequate at tier. I 3 marked the Tiger I in the current meta by just driving at people and DPMing them in the face. It was incredibly easy, and winning was just a bonus. The Tigers DPM is enough to get it out of most bad situations. The Tiger II, while its not the DPM machine has a gun that can pull off the siliest shots, because it handles really well. The Tiger II is adequate at tier 8, while not being the best, (and the IS-6 is hot garbage, and way worse than the Tiger II. The IS-3A is similarly garbage. But beyond that tanks like the IS-3 and Defender are better than every other tier 8 heavy, not just the Tiger II).

 

The Panther is also fine at tier 7 with the l/100. It is a perfectly adequate tier 7 medium, just like the Comet and small gun Leo.

 

The Panther II, even with the 88 l/100 is adequate at tier. Yea, the Panther 8,8 has some issues (mainly in the gun area), and the Ferdi has always been trash, but for the most part, despite people not liking it, the German nation is actually pretty ok if you have any measure of skill and half of a brain.

 

I mean it isnt though. The Tiger II is fine where it is. Im currently playing it, in the current meta and see no issues with it.

 

I agree with pretty much everything that you said.  I would argue, though, that the one thing holding back a lot of the German tanks is a big drop in DPM from tiers and the papermache turret faces.

 

- The Panther II loses roughly 12% DPM to the Panther I and is at the bottom of the list of tier 8 medium tanks, in terms of DPM.  On top of that, it is among the slowest (power-to-weight) and the biggest with some of the weakest armor.  So, if you can't get anywhere quickly, you can't defend yourself adequately, can't go hull down, and you don't do a lot of damage per shot while not firing a lot of shots quickly that makes for a bad situation.

 

- The Tiger II needs a big DPM bump, as does the VK 45.02 A, for no other reason than there are other tanks at that tier that have as strong or stronger guns with more DPM, better speed, better power-to-weight, etc.

 

At the end of the day, it isn't that the German tanks are bad.  It is that they're all designed as complementary tanks.  World of Tanks, today, is built around being agile and hull down capable.  If you don't meet those criteria, you're at an extreme disadvantage and that disadvantage grows when you're thrust into positions in which the tank cannot carry.  German tanks don't really come back around in power until tier 9 and all of them are still woefully weak, when compared to Russian/Chinese tanks at the same tiers.  German tanks in 2015 were good, based upon what I've seen.  Those same tanks, post nerf patch 8.8 and with the proliferation of new and buffed tanks, are decidedly weaker.  That doesn't make them bad.  It just means that you have to play with a higher skill cap to get the same amount of benefit from them in a gaming environment that doesn't adequately support or reward high skill cap tanks.



21Blackjack #35 Posted Jan 10 2019 - 15:16

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View PostTrauglodyte, on Jan 10 2019 - 14:56, said:

 

I agree with pretty much everything that you said.  I would argue, though, that the one thing holding back a lot of the German tanks is a big drop in DPM from tiers and the papermache turret faces.

 

- The Panther II loses roughly 12% DPM to the Panther I and is at the bottom of the list of tier 8 medium tanks, in terms of DPM.  On top of that, it is among the slowest (power-to-weight) and the biggest with some of the weakest armor.  So, if you can't get anywhere quickly, you can't defend yourself adequately, can't go hull down, and you don't do a lot of damage per shot while not firing a lot of shots quickly that makes for a bad situation.

 

- The Tiger II needs a big DPM bump, as does the VK 45.02 A, for no other reason than there are other tanks at that tier that have as strong or stronger guns with more DPM, better speed, better power-to-weight, etc.

 

At the end of the day, it isn't that the German tanks are bad.  It is that they're all designed as complementary tanks.  World of Tanks, today, is built around being agile and hull down capable.  If you don't meet those criteria, you're at an extreme disadvantage and that disadvantage grows when you're thrust into positions in which the tank cannot carry.  German tanks don't really come back around in power until tier 9 and all of them are still woefully weak, when compared to Russian/Chinese tanks at the same tiers.  German tanks in 2015 were good, based upon what I've seen.  Those same tanks, post nerf patch 8.8 and with the proliferation of new and buffed tanks, are decidedly weaker.  That doesn't make them bad.  It just means that you have to play with a higher skill cap to get the same amount of benefit from them in a gaming environment that doesn't adequately support or reward high skill cap tanks.

 

Remember second line and support tanks?  I don't hear about them anymore.  Whens the last time someone in a organized match say "hey we need a second line support tank"  probably got laughed out of the chatroom.

 



SteelRonin #36 Posted Jan 10 2019 - 15:41

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View PostAvalon304, on Jan 09 2019 - 19:13, said:

 

I mean youre wrong, but thats ok. Both about the tanks and about DPMs place in the meta.

 

Literally every tank listed is adequate at tier. I 3 marked the Tiger I in the current meta by just driving at people and DPMing them in the face. It was incredibly easy, and winning was just a bonus. The Tigers DPM is enough to get it out of most bad situations. The Tiger II, while its not the DPM machine has a gun that can pull off the siliest shots, because it handles really well. The Tiger II is adequate at tier 8, while not being the best, (and the IS-6 is hot garbage, and way worse than the Tiger II. The IS-3A is similarly garbage. But beyond that tanks like the IS-3 and Defender are better than every other tier 8 heavy, not just the Tiger II).

 

The Panther is also fine at tier 7 with the l/100. It is a perfectly adequate tier 7 medium, just like the Comet and small gun Leo.

 

The Panther II, even with the 88 l/100 is adequate at tier. Yea, the Panther 8,8 has some issues (mainly in the gun area), and the Ferdi has always been trash, but for the most part, despite people not liking it, the German nation is actually pretty ok if you have any measure of skill and half of a brain.

 

I mean it isnt though. The Tiger II is fine where it is. Im currently playing it, in the current meta and see no issues with it.

 

mmmm, nope, I still believe I am right, and you are wrong. Alpha, hull down and strong turrets are the Meta, DPM is not, the most DPM tanks have no armor, and having no armor in this game is not the Meta.

 

Tiger 1, Tiger II, Panther, Jagdpanther, Panther 2, and many others are placed incorrectly in the tier, they are 1 tier UP, they are placed in a tier where their armor don't work, for that reason, they are not in the Meta. Some of them have high DPM to compensate the lack of armor or have good accuracy (in theory, because the fact is the accuracy coeficient is a lie), but DPM, the "second line" tanks, the "support role", the "sniper tank" are a myth, because most of the maps have a huge hill in the center that doesn't allow you to have long range shots.

 

Why do I bother to waste ammo on a soviet tank at 50 meters in front o me, when I can deal damage to the german tank that is behind at 100 meters?.....The game is designed that way, that is how this russian or belarusian game works.

 

Panther with L/100?, they added that gun to "balance" the tank, it is a crappy tier 7 medium tank, situational at best.

 

Ferdinand should be tier 6, it sounds ridiculous that the Jagdpanther "evolves" to a Ferdinand,....but Steel, the Ferdinand has too much armor........So, a german tank with armor can't be at tier 6, but the O-I can.....

 

The german tanks that work in the meta are the VK100.01P, the E75 and VK4200 ausf B, because they have armor.

 

I still do fairly good with my Tiger 2, I 3 marked it with the stock gun only, but I would never say it is OK just because I play well wih it......that kind of arguments are meh to me, I won't congratulate you for telling me that you play good with the Tiger 1 or Tiger II...but it's ok.



D1rkjr #37 Posted Jan 10 2019 - 15:52

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I highly disagree about the tiger P being bad. It performs far far better than the tiger from my experience. 

crasta #38 Posted Jan 10 2019 - 18:33

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I don't know much but,  I feel I started learning more about the game when I started  playing German tanks (1300 battles) than I had while playing Russian tanks (4300 battles).

I am not saying I would recommend a German line over a Russian line, just making a personal observation.



tanopasman62 #39 Posted Jan 10 2019 - 21:37

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View PostD1rkjr, on Jan 10 2019 - 15:52, said:

I highly disagree about the tiger P being bad. It performs far far better than the tiger from my experience. 

 

I kept both, they are good on their own ways.

DerJager #40 Posted Jan 11 2019 - 09:48

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Tiger P isn't bad, but it's not good either. But that doesn't dismiss the other, ludicrously bad tanks in the German lines.

 

The mediums are especially bad. WG needs to shrink the Panther line by like 40%, and buff the [edited]outa the armor and DPM, or leave the size alone and REAAAAAAAALY buff the [edited]outa the armor.






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