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suggestion: No hit = No stun, no module dmg

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tanopasman62 #21 Posted Jan 10 2019 - 06:47

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If you had all three arties focusing on you you were either a priority target or did something really stupid like driving into the open, or both, arties are not gonna focus a stock TVP VTU behind a rock when there's an E 100 driving into the open.

 

You can adapt, or go play Blitz, arty free, every single game. :arta:



Arcata #22 Posted Jan 10 2019 - 07:00

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View Postgmotoman, on Jan 10 2019 - 06:46, said:

I maybe missing some nuance, but OP seems reasonable.  The shell didn't hit your tank so why at the very least is the crew inside taking damage from splash?

 

Going for realism?  Explosions cause primary, secondary, and tertiary impacts.  Some of those can effect crews inside armored vehicles even without penetration.  

And to answer the OP's question of why should splash damage cause problems, you have to remember that artillery is an area weapon.  Although direct hits are nice, they aren't expected.  That's why the MGRS is designed around using a six digit address to call in fire on a 100m square area for artillery.  Direct impacts are not required for effective fire.  I would find arty boring and incredibly unrealistic if they didn't cause at least some splash damage.   



gmotoman #23 Posted Jan 10 2019 - 07:02

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View PostArcata, on Jan 10 2019 - 07:00, said:

 

Going for realism?  Explosions cause primary, secondary, and tertiary impacts.  Some of those can effect crews inside armored vehicles even without penetration.  

And to answer the OP's question of why should splash damage cause problems, you have to remember that artillery is an area weapon.  Although direct hits are nice, they aren't expected.  That's why the MGRS is designed around using a six digit address to call in fire on a 100m square area for artillery.  Direct impacts are not required for effective fire.  I would find arty boring and incredibly unrealistic if they didn't cause at least some splash damage.   

 

see i was missing nuance.

 



iiNSaNiiTY #24 Posted Jan 10 2019 - 07:08

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View PostArcata, on Jan 10 2019 - 07:00, said:

 

Going for realism?  Explosions cause primary, secondary, and tertiary impacts.  Some of those can effect crews inside armored vehicles even without penetration.  

And to answer the OP's question of why should splash damage cause problems, you have to remember that artillery is an area weapon.  Although direct hits are nice, they aren't expected.  That's why the MGRS is designed around using a six digit address to call in fire on a 100m square area for artillery.  Direct impacts are not required for effective fire.  I would find arty boring and incredibly unrealistic if they didn't cause at least some splash damage.   

 

This is an arcade game not a simulator, if you want realism look for another game, besides with that logic the 150mm cannons should also cause stun

iiNSaNiiTY #25 Posted Jan 10 2019 - 07:10

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View Postgmotoman, on Jan 10 2019 - 06:46, said:

I maybe missing some nuance, but OP seems reasonable.  The shell didn't hit your tank so why at the very least is the crew inside taking damage from splash?

 

Not only kill crew, you can also destroy modules with the splash, good players in arty use this to immobilize the light assets.

iiNSaNiiTY #26 Posted Jan 10 2019 - 07:13

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View Posttanopasman62, on Jan 10 2019 - 06:47, said:

If you had all three arties focusing on you you were either a priority target or did something really stupid like driving into the open, or both, arties are not gonna focus a stock TVP VTU behind a rock when there's an E 100 driving into the open.

 

You can adapt, or go play Blitz, arty free, every single game. :arta:

 

Oh pls teacher teach me your wisdom, show me the replay where you dodge arty projectiles driving your E-100 in malinovka.


Note: I hope your solution is not hiding behind the base.


Edited by iiNSaNiiTY, Jan 10 2019 - 07:16.


VooDooKobra #27 Posted Jan 10 2019 - 07:16

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View PostiiNSaNiiTY, on Jan 09 2019 - 20:59, said:

because the artillery can kill crew members and destroy modules without even hitting the tank? (please do not leave with "realism" that WG decided to leave the simulator path a long time ago). I am tired of spending thousands of credits on repairs kit and medical kit thanks to the cancer of the sky, I just lost a battle to be perma tracked thanks to 3 artys that focused on me, I could not move for 5 minutes and each hit kill to a crew member and damaged a module.


because for WG is it so difficult to make the arty less annoying? Since they said they do not plan to reduce their amount to 1 per battle, then please lower the costs of the consumables or at least remove the stun and damage to crew / modules by splash.

 

While i would not mind a lower cost of consumables it has nothing to do with arty but more improving the games economy.  

 

as for removing stun/splash i do to think this is a realistic goal due to them getting these in exchange for damage but here are my thoughts on the subject.

 

1. either decrease reload time or add some damage back in exchange for reducing splash radium and stun time

2. go with a golf ball model for splash and damage.  by that i mean really close to the tank they get the full effect with a sharp drop off in effect after a short radius around your tanks

3. optional idea after discussions with others, put in a bia style skill that would reduce stun by 40-50% having it stack able with spall liner and large first aid kit.  but to be fair the arty would get the full value towards his missions.  so what you would have is base 40%+30% for super heavy spall liner + 5 (i think its 5) for the large health kit.  75% reduction

 

these are just ideas and tweaking may be needed

 

I would love to see ideas that make arty more tolerable but not gimping them to high heaven and unplayable.  players are never going to be happy about arty but if we can make it so they get to the meh it is what it is stage it would cut down on the anger in my opinion


Edited by VooDooKobra, Jan 10 2019 - 07:19.


tanopasman62 #28 Posted Jan 10 2019 - 07:17

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View PostiiNSaNiiTY, on Jan 10 2019 - 07:13, said:

 

Oh pls teacher teach me your wisdom, show me the replay where you dodge arty projectiles driving your E-100 in malinovka.


Note: I hope your solution is not hiding behind the base.

 

In other words you were a priority target and you're now salty because you didn't get to farm on those tier 8s.

iiNSaNiiTY #29 Posted Jan 10 2019 - 07:19

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View Posttanopasman62, on Jan 10 2019 - 07:17, said:

 

In other words you were a priority target and you're now salty because you didn't get to farm on those tier 8s.

 

But you would do better, would not you?

"adapt"



Arcata #30 Posted Jan 10 2019 - 07:20

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View PostiiNSaNiiTY, on Jan 10 2019 - 07:08, said:

 

This is an arcade game not a simulator, if you want realism look for another game, besides with that logic the 150mm cannons should also cause stun

 

I understand that it's not a simulator, but knocking realism by saying it's an arcade game also doesn't work.  The devs have put a great deal of realism into the game, because they know that many in the player base want that:  They have modeled the tanks (for the most part), on real vehicles, using somewhat historically accurate modules, armor values, weights, etc.  If it were purely arcade, they wouldn't factor in things like armor angles and shell velocities.  They obviously want a healthy amount of realism mixed in with their game to attract players, and it's proven to be effective.  So dismissing anything that is "realistic" because it doesn't fit with your desires for the game seems odd.  

Edited by Arcata, Jan 10 2019 - 07:23.


Ducks4Cup #31 Posted Jan 10 2019 - 07:21

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Inb4 goeplaebllitz and deezine yor one gaem

 insert deviant tanker emoji here



tanopasman62 #32 Posted Jan 10 2019 - 07:26

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View PostiiNSaNiiTY, on Jan 10 2019 - 07:19, said:

 

But you would do better, would not you?

"adapt"

 

The inner edges of the cap (For encounter) are good places to wiggle around as they're harder to hit, if you stay still you'll be hit anyway though.

 

Sometimes it's bother to risk it and rush in that spot than staying at the outer edges of the hills where you're basically holding a big "Arty pls shoot me" sign.



WhineMaker #33 Posted Jan 10 2019 - 07:32

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View PostiiNSaNiiTY, on Jan 09 2019 - 19:59, said:

because the artillery can kill crew members and destroy modules without even hitting the tank? (please do not leave with "realism" that WG decided to leave the simulator path a long time ago). I am tired of spending thousands of credits on repairs kit and medical kit thanks to the cancer of the sky, I just lost a battle to be perma tracked thanks to 3 artys that focused on me, I could not move for 5 minutes and each hit kill to a crew member and damaged a module.


because for WG is it so difficult to make the arty less annoying? Since they said they do not plan to reduce their amount to 1 per battle, then please lower the costs of the consumables or at least remove the stun and damage to crew / modules by splash.

 

Add a spall liner and use large med kits to reduce the stun effects. What you are suggesting is an easy mode that is readily available in WoT Blitz.

 

You want stun removed/reduced. In exchange, the alpha damage needs a drastic buff(75-80% increase) and the return of AP rounds.

 

View PostThe_Illusive_Man, on Jan 09 2019 - 20:15, said:

First, change that red. Thats for mods only.

 

The fact that arty can effectively remove a tank from the game, without killing it is stupid. Tank crews need to have a 30 - 60 second immunity to stun after receiving it.

 

Immunity from stun? :D

 

How about you move to another area, use a spall liner and large med kits. Or as indicated above, if you need an easy mode, WoT Blitz is a download away to all the arty free games you desire... :arta:

 

 



gmotoman #34 Posted Jan 10 2019 - 07:34

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The more I think about the stun/kill crew thing and artillery.   I think I stand for the current mechanics as far as stun goes, but realism no realism arcade shooter simulator no way should an indirect hit cause a crew member death where you have to use a first aid kit(if you want).   **on edit** only talking mechanics as far as crew are concerned.  ok with how it works with the outside modules..

Edited by gmotoman, Jan 10 2019 - 07:42.


iiNSaNiiTY #35 Posted Jan 10 2019 - 07:36

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View Posttanopasman62, on Jan 10 2019 - 07:26, said:

 

The inner edges of the cap (For encounter) are good places to wiggle around as they're harder to hit, if you stay still you'll be hit anyway though.

 

Sometimes it's bother to risk it and rush in that spot than staying at the outer edges of the hills where you're basically holding a big "Arty pls shoot me" sign.

 

But someone has to take care of the first line or are you going to stay in your E100 parked on the edge waiting for the tier 8s to clean up your area and you can move safely?

What I do is go quickly to the mill and so do not have to receive so many blows, but this is not enough with 3 artys that only hit you ... as they said above they should see a penalty of stun so reduce a bit the pain when the arty makes you focus ...


tanopasman62 #36 Posted Jan 10 2019 - 07:40

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View PostiiNSaNiiTY, on Jan 10 2019 - 07:36, said:

 

But someone has to take care of the first line or are you going to stay in your E100 parked on the edge waiting for the tier 8s to clean up your area and you can move safely?

What I do is go quickly to the mill and so do not have to receive so many blows, but this is not enough with 3 artys that only hit you ... as they said above they should see a penalty of stun so reduce a bit the pain when the arty makes you focus ...

 

If you're driving a heavy then your job is to take the lead and be shot at by the enemies, which includes arty, by doing this you'll be relatively safe during your reload, you're going to be shot at regardless when poking out to shoot.

 

If you're afraid of taking hits you should either play arty or some high camo TD like the Swedish line.



iiNSaNiiTY #37 Posted Jan 10 2019 - 07:56

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View Posttanopasman62, on Jan 10 2019 - 07:40, said:

 

If you're driving a heavy then your job is to take the lead and be shot at by the enemies, which includes arty, by doing this you'll be relatively safe during your reload, you're going to be shot at regardless when poking out to shoot.

 

If you're afraid of taking hits you should either play arty or some high camo TD like the Swedish line.

 

So that arty that prevents the camper is a lie?

 

So apparently you already change your position that it's my fault that the arty hit me for playing my heavy as a heavy... I know very well the work of a heavyweight, but I believe that a player who plays with one hand from the bottom of the map must have a penalty, no? at least make his game more difficult and force him to shoot at the target if he wants to be able to stun and destroy modules.



tanopasman62 #38 Posted Jan 10 2019 - 08:20

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View PostiiNSaNiiTY, on Jan 10 2019 - 07:56, said:

 

So that arty that prevents the camper is a lie?

 

So apparently you already change your position that it's my fault that the arty hit me for playing my heavy as a heavy... I know very well the work of a heavyweight, but I believe that a player who plays with one hand from the bottom of the map must have a penalty, no? at least make his game more difficult and force him to shoot at the target if he wants to be able to stun and destroy modules.

 

Read again

 

View Posttanopasman62, on Jan 10 2019 - 06:47, said:

If you had all three arties focusing on you you were either a priority target or did something really stupid like driving into the open, or both, arties are not gonna focus a stock TVP VTU behind a rock when there's an E 100 driving into the open.

 

 

 

Arty is there to writtle down enemy heavies so its own heavies can finish them off and win their flank, if you stay still like a lot of "good and competent" folks do, you're gonna get shot. Arty hit you for playing your heavy as such, it's almost like it didn't want your team to win, shocking, huh?

 

You can always play arty yourself and find out what it can and can't do, learning their inner workings will make you more aware of your positioning when playing other classes.



kapri25 #39 Posted Jan 10 2019 - 09:06

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Please stop using the word realism in conjunction with this game. WG has left realism behind a long time ago.

Edited by kapri25, Jan 10 2019 - 09:06.


BurglarOfBanff_ff #40 Posted Jan 10 2019 - 14:00

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View PostiiNSaNiiTY, on Jan 09 2019 - 22:59, said:

because the artillery can kill crew members and destroy modules without even hitting the tank? (please do not leave with "realism" that WG decided to leave the simulator path a long time ago). I am tired of spending thousands of credits on repairs kit and medical kit thanks to the cancer of the sky, I just lost a battle to be perma tracked thanks to 3 artys that focused on me, I could not move for 5 minutes and each hit kill to a crew member and damaged a module.


because for WG is it so difficult to make the arty less annoying? Since they said they do not plan to reduce their amount to 1 per battle, then please lower the costs of the consumables or at least remove the stun and damage to crew / modules by splash.

 

Fine.  Bring back the arty accuracy so you get hit more often and we'll see you back here whining about the good old days when you just got stunned.





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