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WN8 vs Win rate

xvm win rate wn8

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KatzeWolf #1 Posted Jan 23 2019 - 23:16

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For me, win rate is more important.

 

But I feel another way to look at it is that WN8 represents mechanical skill, while win rate represents game sense, awareness etc.

 

For example, my WN8 is quite high for my win rate, I can drive my tank well in a brawl etc, but not as good at making decisions and plays that win a game.

I'm getting better though.

 

Does anyone else see WN8 in this way? or am I just weird :P



BoghieWanKanobie #2 Posted Jan 23 2019 - 23:18

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I think that is pretty legit.

 

Although, Wn8 can also measure your ability to get to key terrain early and do early damage - which is very important and is reflected in WR as well.



wkcw1 #3 Posted Jan 23 2019 - 23:23

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My wn8 are quite high for the autoloaders so I imagine the burst damage is a factor in the calculation.

KatzeWolf #4 Posted Jan 23 2019 - 23:29

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View PostBoghie, on Jan 24 2019 - 08:18, said:

I think that is pretty legit.

 

Although, Wn8 can also measure your ability to get to key terrain early and do early damage - which is very important and is reflected in WR as well.

 

Yeah win rate measures both, as if you won the game, you must be good at doing damage etc.

Elevendy #5 Posted Jan 23 2019 - 23:33

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Wn8 usually should correlate with win rate. If either is too far apart they are either platoon win rate padding, or baiting their team for damage.

 

Personally, I will always respect someone who can pull a 75%+ win rate vs. 5k Wn8.



cloudwalkr #6 Posted Jan 23 2019 - 23:33

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I also look at avg exp.  I avg close to 1k xp on a lot of tanks, which I consider good and anything over 1k avg xp - you know how to play the tank, but I don't have amazingly high wn8 in some of those.

 

 



BillDing1 #7 Posted Jan 23 2019 - 23:36

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every stat can be padded looking at just one doesn't do you any good.

ElPuffMo #8 Posted Jan 23 2019 - 23:36

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Yes yes yes, OP! Win Rate is important to best assess a player's ability to coordinate and to "see the bigger picture." To me, WR is much more important than WN8 because: Why play a team game if not interested in putting the team's goal of winning as first priority?

 

However, WN8 is better at assessing an individual's contribution, particularly in terms of damage. It can be a bit more easily manipulated than WR (especially at mid & low tiers due to seal clubbing), but generally the more damage a player gets, the better the chances of helping the team win in most circumstances, so the two metrics tend to go together.  When players have a low WR but high WN8, it often means that a player platoons less frequently and/or is a "selfish" player that snipes easy damage from low-priority targets, or just mops up after teammates have died, thus not contributing to the team winning. 

 

Top clans look for both, because low WR can indicate poor teamwork & communication skills, but low WN8 can indicate that a player just can't pull their weight. Both numbers are good for analysis and for better understanding one's individual play style and how to improve.



BoghieWanKanobie #9 Posted Jan 23 2019 - 23:37

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View PostKatzeWolf, on Jan 23 2019 - 17:29, said:

 

Yeah win rate measures both, as if you won the game, you must be good at doing damage etc.

 

Actually, look at my stats :hiding:

 

I'm the exact opposite of what you noted in your performance.  My Wn8 (hence damage) is far too low to support my WR.  

 

I think I might be in trouble long term because all the situational awareness in the world doesn't help if both you and your team don't do damage to the other team.  Some games have to be won by YOU doing the damage - and, I don't.  I really can't figure it out.  I'm keeping my head low.  Maybe the WarGaming programmers have given me the golden gun for a while.  Maybe I'm running WR enhance cheat mods.  Maybe I'm getting teams with the remaining fourteen players in Purple Fringed Togas.



_JohnWick_ #10 Posted Jan 23 2019 - 23:38

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The more I play this game, the more I feel that winrate is useless.

And I know it's the measure we first look at but you could have 3000 wn8 over the course of 10 games and lose every one.  It's happened to me on multiple occasions.

You can't control the teams you are on, so how much control are you really in of winning the game.

 

I realize that there a unicums who carry a lot more than avg players hence the higher winrate, but for average players like me, I feel that I have no say in winning games more often than not.



Trauglodyte #11 Posted Jan 23 2019 - 23:40

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View PostKatzeWolf, on Jan 23 2019 - 23:16, said:

For me, win rate is more important.

 

But I feel another way to look at it is that WN8 represents mechanical skill, while win rate represents game sense, awareness etc.

 

For example, my WN8 is quite high for my win rate, I can drive my tank well in a brawl etc, but not as good at making decisions and plays that win a game.

I'm getting better though.

 

Does anyone else see WN8 in this way? or am I just weird :P

 

Win rate and wn8 are both dependent and mutually exclusive.  The more damage that you do intrinsically means that you'll probably kill more tanks and have a higher chance of winning.  BUT, you can do a ton of damage by sucking out at the end of the game, thus accomplishing nothing.  If you watch players like Lemmingrush, as an example, he'll leave his team to die, just to pad the damage and wn8.  So, damage output doesn't always equate to winning.

 

On the other hand, there are things that you can do to help secure wins that don't involve damage.  Driving in front of a powerful ally that is tracked and/or putting a fresh tank into the fray to trade health in support of your team are both winning plays.  Spotting doesn't equate to damage and is, point of fact, what I consider to be "empty" damage but it helps drive wins.  0 damage tracking shots don't pad your stats but they help kill tanks which helps to secure wins.  Plus, knowing when ti cap for the win instead of chasing wn8 is also a winning play, as is knowing when to flex and NOT pushing a broken flank to go back and support the other.


I find that I win more games doing less damage than I do in games where I go balls out.  Case in point, I had a 3900 damage and 900 assistance damage game in a tier 8 match in my tier 6 Dicker Max, over the weekend, and it was a loss.  I didn't suck out at the end and, instead, made aggressive strong point plays but I still lost.  I did 45% of the total team damage and out damaged 12 of the other 14 members on my team.  I made winning plays and did a ton of damage but still lost.  Winning is about sacrificing and doing what must be done to win.  Growing wn8 is about positioning yourself to deal damage.  Damage can lead to wins but winning plays, damage or not, always leads to more wins.

 

View PostElPuffMo, on Jan 23 2019 - 23:36, said:

Yes yes yes, OP! Win Rate is important to best assess a player's ability to coordinate and to "see the bigger picture." To me, WR is much more important than WN8 because: Why play a team game if not interested in putting the team's goal of winning as first priority?

 

However, WN8 is better at assessing an individual's contribution, particularly in terms of damage. It can be a bit more easily manipulated than WR (especially at mid & low tiers due to seal clubbing), but generally the more damage a player gets, the better the chances of helping the team win in most circumstances, so the two metrics tend to go together.  When players have a low WR but high WN8, it often means that a player platoons less frequently and/or is a "selfish" player that snipes easy damage from low-priority targets, or just mops up after teammates have died, thus not contributing to the team winning. 

 

Top clans look for both, because low WR can indicate poor teamwork & communication skills, but low WN8 can indicate that a player just can't pull their weight. Both numbers are good for analysis and for better understanding one's individual play style and how to improve.

 

+1 to the ElPuffMo because he's dead on.  Plus, he's freaking awesome!

 

View PostBoghie, on Jan 23 2019 - 23:37, said:

 

Actually, look at my stats :hiding:

 

I'm the exact opposite of what you noted in your performance.  My Wn8 (hence damage) is far too low to support my WR.  

 

I think I might be in trouble long term because all the situational awareness in the world doesn't help if both you and your team don't do damage to the other team.  Some games have to be won by YOU doing the damage - and, I don't.  I really can't figure it out.  I'm keeping my head low.  Maybe the WarGaming programmers have given me the golden gun for a while.  Maybe I'm running WR enhance cheat mods.  Maybe I'm getting teams with the remaining fourteen players in Purple Fringed Togas.

 

I have won a lot of games that I should have lost because I played poorly but my teammates carried me.  I have lost a lot of games that I should have won but didn't because my teammates pulled me down.  The game washes that out, over time.  Plus, you might be making winning plays and they just get trounced by teams full of people that don't make those plays.  I don't like wn8, as a stat, but as you grow your wn8, your win rate will follow, to a point.  There will come a time where you'll start to plateau.  THAT is when you need to address your shortcomings and make a change in play style.  Practice and hone the subtle aspects of this game and your stats will get better.  N00b debt will always be there, short of you rerolling.  Above all, enjoy the game and strive to be better.  Being bad isn't awful, as long as you're fixing the mistakes that hold you back.  It is the crappy players that don't care about anything that really hold the community and the game back.

 

Step #1:  Find a tank that you're comfortable in and stick with that play style/line.

Step #2:  Start by consistently doing X% of your health, let's say 75% at the start, in combined damage and assistance per game

Step #3:  Grow that percentage to 100% of your health

Step #4:  Grow your raw damage to 100% of your health, on top of added assistance damage

Step #5:  Reapply those steps to the next tank/tank line

 

You can do it.  The game, itself, isn't hard.  The hard part is first figuring out what your tank is good at doing and marrying that with how you play.  There are bad tanks that will drag you down.  There are great tanks that you might not click with.  Find your sweet spot and then kick it in the [edited]!  From there, you'll get that "ah ha!" moment and everything will fall into play.  There will always be TVP VTUs, Panther IIs, etc. tanks that just suck in the hands of almost everyone.  There will be days when it is nothing but rain clouds and kicks to the junk.  Not every tank is like and RNG Satan isn't always against you.  Get better, gain confidence, and you'll be a greenicum, tealicum, or bluenicum before you know it.


Edited by Trauglodyte, Jan 23 2019 - 23:50.


JakeTheMystic #12 Posted Jan 23 2019 - 23:41

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Wn8 ~ The ability for a player to stay alive and consistently due damage.

Win Rate ~ The ability of a player to either carry games or consistently contribute to the team. 

 

Basically, people can have really high damage games but do very little to contribute to the teams victory (chai sniping, somewhat rare now. Damage farming in lights) Vs people who consistently do damage regardless of tier in MM and can contribute to the teams victory. 

 

People with really low win rates (<48%) are usually more of a deficit to the team than a contribution. They may get top tier games often but arent playing well enough to pull their weight or they get really unlucky and just get stuck on bad team. Players 49-51% usually pull their own weight, good but not exceptional. Anything over 53% in my eyes is pretty exceptional and they are just well rounded players that know what they are doing. 

 

I used to basically afk in games when I first started playing, so I was a huge deficit to the team for the first 5k battles or so. Didn't even know Wn8 existed until I had around 10k battles and actually started to play well around 12k. 

 

Too bad im still bad. 

 

Oh, and PR basically just shows what tier average you play based on your average DPG and how many battles you have. Its a really poor statistic to show performance. 



ElPuffMo #13 Posted Jan 23 2019 - 23:42

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View PostBoghie, on Jan 23 2019 - 17:37, said:

 

Actually, look at my stats :hiding:

 

I'm the exact opposite of what you noted in your performance.  My Wn8 (hence damage) is far too low to support my WR.  

 

I think I might be in trouble long term because all the situational awareness in the world doesn't help if both you and your team don't do damage to the other team.  Some games have to be won by YOU doing the damage - and, I don't.  I really can't figure it out.  I'm keeping my head low.  Maybe the WarGaming programmers have given me the golden gun for a while.  Maybe I'm running WR enhance cheat mods.  Maybe I'm getting teams with the remaining fourteen players in Purple Fringed Togas.

 

You might not be getting as much damage as you'd prefer, but you are probably better than average at target prioritization and helping your teammates to stay alive. Some of those great qualities you bring to your battles are just not easily quantified. 

KatzeWolf #14 Posted Jan 23 2019 - 23:43

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View PostElevendy, on Jan 24 2019 - 08:33, said:

Wn8 usually should correlate with win rate. If either is too far apart they are either platoon win rate padding, or baiting their team for damage.

 

Personally, I will always respect someone who can pull a 75%+ win rate vs. 5k Wn8.

 

I usually platoon with a friend who has a win rate of 47%, was 45%.

Coaching them.



1stTanks #15 Posted Jan 23 2019 - 23:53

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View PostTrauglodyte, on Jan 23 2019 - 22:40, said:

 

+1 to the ElPuffMo because he's dead on.  Plus, he's freaking awesome!

 

 

She’s*



ElPuffMo #16 Posted Jan 23 2019 - 23:56

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View Post1stTanks, on Jan 23 2019 - 17:53, said:

 

She’s*

 

Awfully sweet of you 1stTanks, and Trauglodyte. Thanks to both of you!

_Holman_ #17 Posted Jan 24 2019 - 01:21

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I value wn8 over wr as wn8 measures what a tanker does on his own., regardless of the quality of the team he is on. Wr is too reliant on the performance of the 14 other players on the team. 

_Tsavo_ #18 Posted Jan 24 2019 - 01:25

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I'm here for the wins, wn8 is a distant worry.

Rhadamanthuz #19 Posted Jan 24 2019 - 01:27

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wn8 is just lol. 

 

How hard is it to do the following? 

 

Sit in the back farm damage at the team's expense.

Play low tears take advantage of new players.

play op tanks over and over.

The most simple wn8 farm... farm damage from mid/or the back of a map in a light earn 6-10k win8 per game...



Trauglodyte #20 Posted Jan 24 2019 - 03:40

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View Post1stTanks, on Jan 23 2019 - 23:53, said:

 

She’s*

 

View PostElPuffMo, on Jan 23 2019 - 23:56, said:

 

Awfully sweet of you 1stTanks, and Trauglodyte. Thanks to both of you!

 

Ironically, I had to edit my original post because I saw what Puffy wrote.  As I went up to grab it, I noticed the camo stiletto heel icon out of the corner of my eye, it processed, and then made me ponder, "Have I been wrong in my assumption?"  I typically don't pay attention to it - signatures catch my attention.

 

What I love about this now and what makes me chuckle more is this:  people are getting trounced by a woman in artillery.  Let that sink in.  We make jokes, and have for a loooong time, about women and online gaming.  And people in WOT gnash their teeth in their regards to artillery.  But, there is a bad [edited](am I allowed to say "chic" without pissing people off?) unicum woman just demolishing people in the game's most hated tank.  If that were me, there would no stopping the deluge of trash talk.

 

Put a smile on my face, more than normal.  Thanks for that!


Edited by Trauglodyte, Jan 24 2019 - 04:26.






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