Jump to content


The game is Awful and Wargaming doesn't care

WG Wargaming Wargaming expirience awful game they dont care dont play WOT mm match making

  • Please log in to reply
243 replies to this topic

_Schneller_Heinz_ #41 Posted Jan 25 2019 - 18:04

    Captain

  • -Players-
  • 3472 battles
  • 1,476
  • Member since:
    02-05-2015

Six straight losses in a row and every game just one Lemming train after another.

All these useless tomatoes just die in the first two to three minutes of every match because they just charge into the enemy...Sucks Ba11$Smile_sceptic.gif

 

PS. I am done for today with this horse manure game!!!


Edited by _Schneller_Heinz_, Jan 25 2019 - 18:05.


Deputy276 #42 Posted Jan 25 2019 - 18:06

    Major

  • Players
  • 20397 battles
  • 5,973
  • [3_NZ] 3_NZ
  • Member since:
    06-17-2013

View PostAverageWannabe, on Jan 25 2019 - 11:03, said:

 

nah.... all that would happen is that stat padders will disappear from the game, which is a good thing.

 

I will see tomatoes as long as i keep sucking at the game but if my ranking gets better I will meet better players and so on...

 

So your formula for success for the game is to drive people away. And you will NOT be seeing "better players" because skill based MM is going to eventually level off everyone to be "suckies". The ones that are really good will leave. 

Deputy276 #43 Posted Jan 25 2019 - 18:07

    Major

  • Players
  • 20397 battles
  • 5,973
  • [3_NZ] 3_NZ
  • Member since:
    06-17-2013

View Post_Schneller_Heinz_, on Jan 25 2019 - 11:04, said:

Six straight losses in a row and every game just one Lemming train after another.

All these useless tomatoes just die in the first two to three minutes of every match because they just charge into the enemy...Sucks Ba11$Smile_sceptic.gif

 

PS. I am done for today with this horse manure game!!!

 

With the current teams, even teal and purple players are playing like crap. So it's not just "useless tomatoes" that is the problem. 

Nunya_000 #44 Posted Jan 25 2019 - 18:09

    Major

  • Players
  • 21138 battles
  • 13,771
  • [PACNW] PACNW
  • Member since:
    09-20-2013

- my response was screwed up by the forum.  Not worth retyping - 



WangOnTheLoose #45 Posted Jan 25 2019 - 18:11

    Major

  • -Players-
  • 28621 battles
  • 2,349
  • [PUBBY] PUBBY
  • Member since:
    09-06-2014

View PostCoffee_, on Jan 25 2019 - 11:42, said:

Use skill based matching. How hard can it be to add that as a variable just like the tank type?
I'm a coder and this sounds insanely easy to add to MM.

 

I agree the coding would indeed be easy but that isn’t the hard part.  Let’s say you have two unicums in the same battle, the first one is in a tier X heavy and the other is in a tier 8 arty do you really think putting them on opposite teams will make the game more balanced.  As a coder you should be well aware that writing the code isn’t the hardest part of the job.

AverageWannabe #46 Posted Jan 25 2019 - 18:12

    Captain

  • -Players-
  • 6989 battles
  • 1,559
  • Member since:
    11-21-2018

View PostDeputy276, on Jan 25 2019 - 14:03, said:

 

All tier 10 tanks are pennable. If they weren't, then the game never would have been around this long. Even the Maus is pennable. You just need to know where to shoot and what ammo to use. You should NOT be going up against a tier 10 Maus in a tier 8 tank anyway. That is probably what your problem is. Stop trying to be Jack the Giant Killer. Go after the 7 tier 8 tanks you are playing against. If all you have left to shoot is 3 tier 10 tanks, then the battle is lost anyway.

 

yea.... good luck meeting an is7 with your defender lol.....

 

Not sure which game are you playing but with the one I play it frequently happens that the majority of the players from one team SUCK! and the majority of the tier 10s and 9s die during the 5 first minutes. If you are trying to grind a tier 8, well.... good luck with that, and hope that you will remain sane during the grinding so that you don't smash your computer down to pieces.



WeSayNotToday #47 Posted Jan 25 2019 - 18:12

    Captain

  • -Players-
  • 23121 battles
  • 1,013
  • Member since:
    04-08-2015

View PostDeputy276, on Jan 25 2019 - 17:35, said:

There is no way to "fix" teams that have more tomatoes vs teams with more unicums. It is just going to be that way and nothing WG can do about it. The teams are randomly picked.

 

There is an excellent idea to develop and test to deal with the skill imbalance on teams, and that would be to move to a more skill-based matchmaker.  The teams should not be random as an end-product.

Block Quote

  It's already been discussed to death that teams based on numbers from XVM or win/loss (skill-based MM) aren't going to work. You will just end up with a "socialism" fix of all players just being "average" and nobody will be happy.

 

It's been discussed to death that teams based on XVM, PR, win rate, or on some new index based on a deeper dive into statistics that WG certainly have archived and available might be much better and should be developed and tested.  You will end up with a more competitive environment, and some of the current good players will be unhappy because a random matchmaker actively favors good players, and they do not want to give up the easy games that the current matchmaker gifts them.

Block Quote

  I'm still baffled that people can't do well in 3/5/7 matchmaking. If you are bottom tier, you still have seven tanks in the same boat as you. Those are the tanks you should be going after. And if you are bottom tier and try and go after top tier tanks, then that is on you. Stop trying to be "Jack the Giant Killer". Even the 5 tanks that are above you can at least be damaged, if not destroyed. Remembering the old way they had it where one side had eight tier 10 heavies, and my team had one-two tier 8 heavies, I'll take this current 3/5/7 in a hearbeat.

 

 

 

I'm still baffled that WG can't seem to fix 3/5/7 matchmaking, which for a couple of tiers, delivers a bottom tier match noticeably more than 7/15ths of the time.  On maps with lanes, funnels, and chokepoints that also do not have "only bottom tier tanks allowed here" sections, it is no mystery that bottom tier tanks might, and will, struggle to be relevant, although good players do manage to be relevant.

 

Block Quote

 I see lots of complaining, but not ONE viable solution being offered by those doing the complaining. If it's so easy to fix, how about one of you complainers telling us HOW.

 

I see lots of teeth gnashing by those that benefit from the random matchmaker who are afraid of giving up the advantages of the random matchmaker.  They do not realize that since WoT is no longer in its growth phase, when more new players were joining than the total of players quitting WoT, that now the game must change to accommodate new players better to improve new player retention, and the MM is one of the major things that might need to be changed, and perhaps, in a big way.

AverageWannabe #48 Posted Jan 25 2019 - 18:14

    Captain

  • -Players-
  • 6989 battles
  • 1,559
  • Member since:
    11-21-2018

View Post_Schneller_Heinz_, on Jan 25 2019 - 14:04, said:

Six straight losses in a row and every game just one Lemming train after another.

All these useless tomatoes just die in the first two to three minutes of every match because they just charge into the enemy...Sucks Ba11$Smile_sceptic.gif

 

PS. I am done for today with this horse manure game!!!

 

This is a real life testimony of what i am saying.

 

I know I am not a good player (yet) but i do know how not to die during the first 2 minutes so I can prolong my damage dealing during most of the game.



AverageWannabe #49 Posted Jan 25 2019 - 18:15

    Captain

  • -Players-
  • 6989 battles
  • 1,559
  • Member since:
    11-21-2018

View PostDeputy276, on Jan 25 2019 - 14:06, said:

 

So your formula for success for the game is to drive people away. And you will NOT be seeing "better players" because skill based MM is going to eventually level off everyone to be "suckies". The ones that are really good will leave. 

 

those that you are calling "really good players" are the stat padders.... the really "really good" players will stay cause they will keep winning and kicking your butt and your wn8 down to pieces.

Edited by AverageWannabe, Jan 25 2019 - 18:18.


Deputy276 #50 Posted Jan 25 2019 - 18:15

    Major

  • Players
  • 20397 battles
  • 5,973
  • [3_NZ] 3_NZ
  • Member since:
    06-17-2013

View PostAverageWannabe, on Jan 25 2019 - 11:12, said:

 

yea.... good luck meeting an is7 with your defender lol.....

 

Not sure which game are you playing but with the one I play it frequently happens that the majority of the players from one team SUCK! and the majority of the tier 10s and 9s die during the 5 first minutes. If you are trying to grind a tier 8, well.... good luck with that, and hope that you will remain sane during the grinding so that you don't smash your computer down to pieces.

 

LOL...I said DON'T try to be Jack the Giant Killer and you give an example of being one. With the Defender, go after the 7 tier 8 tanks you can EASILY pen. If you hate the game so much, make like a tree and leave. Stop punishing yourself. I enjoy the game. And I am grinding for the IS-7 right now knowing full well it's gonna cost me a ton of credits to play it.

BigDollarBillz #51 Posted Jan 25 2019 - 18:17

    Major

  • Players
  • 38764 battles
  • 4,366
  • [SBW] SBW
  • Member since:
    08-28-2011

View PostAverageWannabe, on Jan 25 2019 - 11:13, said:

 

4/5/6 and 5/5/5 is going to be even worse... now with the 3/5/7 template at least we have 7 same tier tanks to hit.

 

What they need to do is to get rid of +2/-2 altogether, for good. But then that means less easy money grabbing, so they are not going to implement it. Thats the dumb part, they are destroying the game for the short term income.

 

The WG business managers are really ..... well.... can't say. I guess they only work with the russian customer mentality in mind.... the russian customer doesn't complain, they just accept what's on the dish no matter if it's rotten.

 

To have only beem playing two months, you sure know a lot about the game. But when you said up above that WG told us six months ago, this leads me to believe you're just a fail reroll. You also you are playing the upper tiers to learn. Well they are not the place to learn to get better. There are a lot of good players in tier 6 as well. But don't blame wg nor the teams for you being bad. Only you can fix that.

Deputy276 #52 Posted Jan 25 2019 - 18:17

    Major

  • Players
  • 20397 battles
  • 5,973
  • [3_NZ] 3_NZ
  • Member since:
    06-17-2013

View PostAverageWannabe, on Jan 25 2019 - 11:15, said:

 

those that you are calling "really good" are the stat padders.... the really "really good" players will stay cause they will keep winning and kicking your butt.

 

Okay...you are now on my ban list. You refuse to understand and make no sense with your comments. 

Trauglodyte #53 Posted Jan 25 2019 - 18:18

    Major

  • -Players-
  • 22604 battles
  • 3,550
  • [GSH] GSH
  • Member since:
    06-04-2016

View Post_Tsavo_, on Jan 25 2019 - 17:24, said:

 

Basically, get rid of the rigid adherence to certain tier counts.  Keep the balance of tier counts as I recall the biggest complaint being "Well, crap, they have 10 tier X and we have 4" 

 

So you can have any combination of tier counts on your team.   1/1/14, 1/2/13, 14/1, 13/1/1, 3/3/9, 9/3/3, and so on.  Whatever one team gets in tier, the other gets.  While maintaining the similar balance of within 1 for the balanced classes, like TDs, etc.  3/5/7 is basically "LOL, have fun enjoying bottom tier all the time" for too many tiers and I never felt like I was always bottom tier.  I think the only big complaint was tier imbalance between teams.  

 

 

 

I agree with what you're wanting but I still don't believe that solves the entire problem.  In my mind, a BIG part of what is really hurting the template system is the lack of normalization of stats.  If my Tiger II has to use premium ammo to ensure a higher chance to pen a 2500 hit point E 100 at 320 damage but the E 100 can use its garbage AP ammo and guarantee the pen on my 1600 hit point at 700 damage, there is a big problem.  If my Rheinmetall Panzerwagen can see and pen my HWK 12 at 346 meters for 320 damage but my HWK 12 can't see my Rheinmetall Panzerwagen to pen it for 240 damage until 335 metes, there is a big problem, especially given the 500 hit point disparity and difference in gun handling, speed, and agility.

 

I'm not saying that every tank needs to be 100% equal to its higher tier tech tree nation peer.  But, there is NO tweaking of the MM that is going to make a -50% drop in alpha, -30% drop in pen, -40% drop in armor, and a -40% drop in health better.  Add to that the coming nerf to premium ammo damage and the issues of the +/- tier match up becomes worse.  I like the concept of the template, to a point.  But it isn't like we're cordoned off in separate areas to fight it out until the last members of that tier survive only to be released to fight the remainders of the other tiers.  The advantages gained by level/tier differences is what makes the template system broken, not the numbers of people in those tiers, and making the numbers of each tier random or having a release valve on numbers in tiers to make the templates differentiated doesn't solve the problem.  Nerfed premium ammo just makes it worse, to boot!



Deputy276 #54 Posted Jan 25 2019 - 18:21

    Major

  • Players
  • 20397 battles
  • 5,973
  • [3_NZ] 3_NZ
  • Member since:
    06-17-2013

View PostBigDollarBillz, on Jan 25 2019 - 11:17, said:

 

To have only beem playing two months, you sure know a lot about the game. But when you said up above that WG told us six months ago, this leads me to believe you're just a fail reroll. You also you are playing the upper tiers to learn. Well they are not the place to learn to get better. There are a lot of good players in tier 6 as well. But don't blame wg nor the teams for you being bad. Only you can fix that.

 

Well said sir!!! :)

WeSayNotToday #55 Posted Jan 25 2019 - 18:23

    Captain

  • -Players-
  • 23121 battles
  • 1,013
  • Member since:
    04-08-2015

View PostDeputy276, on Jan 25 2019 - 18:06, said:

 

So your formula for success for the game is to drive people away. And you will NOT be seeing "better players" because skill based MM is going to eventually level off everyone to be "suckies". The ones that are really good will leave. 

 

Two points:

  1. WoT is already dying, people are already being driven away, WoT is no longer in a growth phase, and, yes the MM has something to do with it. Lower and mid tier experience is full of seal clubbing, and the upper tiers?  Well, buy a tier 8 premium and you get to be bottom tier in most of your matches, and you PAID EXTRA for this privilege!
  2. Skill based MM will only compress win rates, it will not make good players into bad or average players.  If you are the 76th best player on the server, or the 17th [or 117th] best in your favorite tank, that should not change much.  Compressed win rates will not necessarily drive good players away, but the seal clubbers will be a lot less happy, and they might leave because they do not want greater chances at real competition in more matches.

Edited by WeSayNotToday, Jan 25 2019 - 18:26.


Deputy276 #56 Posted Jan 25 2019 - 18:26

    Major

  • Players
  • 20397 battles
  • 5,973
  • [3_NZ] 3_NZ
  • Member since:
    06-17-2013

View PostWeSayNotToday, on Jan 25 2019 - 11:12, said:

 

There is an excellent idea to develop and test to deal with the skill imbalance on teams, and that would be to move to a more skill-based matchmaker.  The teams should not be random as an end-product.

 

 

Skill-based MM has been suggested for years. It simply won't work. What you eventually end up with, is everyone in one gigantic "average" classification as purple vs purple players have to have a winner and loser and the loser gets his rating knocked down to teal and them green and then yellow, etc etc. And since red players will be matched against fellow red players, they will always remain red. That is the flaw with skill-based MM.

AverageWannabe #57 Posted Jan 25 2019 - 18:26

    Captain

  • -Players-
  • 6989 battles
  • 1,559
  • Member since:
    11-21-2018

View PostDeputy276, on Jan 25 2019 - 14:15, said:

 

LOL...I said DON'T try to be Jack the Giant Killer and you give an example of being one. With the Defender, go after the 7 tier 8 tanks you can EASILY pen. If you hate the game so much, make like a tree and leave. Stop punishing yourself. I enjoy the game. And I am grinding for the IS-7 right now knowing full well it's gonna cost me a ton of credits to play it.

 

wishful thinking they call it.... You might try all you want to avoid meeting an is7 or any other top tank but that dont always work and you should know this by now. Specially if a monkey is driving said bottom tier tank.



Devildog8 #58 Posted Jan 25 2019 - 18:27

    Major

  • Players
  • 11075 battles
  • 7,566
  • [CRZY] CRZY
  • Member since:
    12-26-2011

View PostWangOnTheLoose, on Jan 25 2019 - 11:11, said:

 

I agree the coding would indeed be easy but that isn’t the hard part.  Let’s say you have two unicums in the same battle, the first one is in a tier X heavy and the other is in a tier 8 arty do you really think putting them on opposite teams will make the game more balanced.  As a coder you should be well aware that writing the code isn’t the hardest part of the job.

 

thats quite some speculation on your part sir I have seen some pretty bad [edited]purple arty players

Tolos #59 Posted Jan 25 2019 - 18:28

    Major

  • Beta Testers
  • 25997 battles
  • 18,307
  • [GDF] GDF
  • Member since:
    09-22-2010

View PostAverageWannabe, on Jan 25 2019 - 16:32, said:

I think what they need to implement is skill based MM based on players rating (i know statt padders are going to hate it since many will lose their dear wn8 purple status, but fk'em! ...cause they are the ones guilty of ruining the noob's game experience) That way each team will have an equal chance to win and you will be able to play with better players as you get better.

 

This crap of being forced to play along with nine or ten decerebrated monkeys that rush into death during the first two minutes game after game after game is just fkn unbearable.... let the monkeys play with the monkeys, the average with the average and the good with the good. Make the game fair and healthy!

 

Wow the Irony....

AverageWannabe #60 Posted Jan 25 2019 - 18:29

    Captain

  • -Players-
  • 6989 battles
  • 1,559
  • Member since:
    11-21-2018

View PostBigDollarBillz, on Jan 25 2019 - 14:17, said:

 

To have only beem playing two months, you sure know a lot about the game. But when you said up above that WG told us six months ago, this leads me to believe you're just a fail reroll. You also you are playing the upper tiers to learn. Well they are not the place to learn to get better. There are a lot of good players in tier 6 as well. But don't blame wg nor the teams for you being bad. Only you can fix that.

 

i wasnt the guy who wrote about the six months thing, read again. And no, I'm not a reroll i'm just a quick learner.

Edited by AverageWannabe, Jan 25 2019 - 18:46.





2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users