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Arty still needs work

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KatzeWolf #1 Posted Feb 01 2019 - 14:42

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Artillery does not discourage camping, it promotes it.

 

Just had a game where everyone was camping because of artillery, and as soon as someone made a push they got deleted by arty.

 

By the end of the game, all three arty had 3000 damage each.



sergeantmine09 #2 Posted Feb 01 2019 - 14:56

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Whether or not your story is true about this next level crusade by arty, the level of agreement to this statement is immeasurable. It's a shame that Wargaming is done with working on arty, and it is a shame that this is a dead horse at this point, but the standing opinion is that arty needs work.

enjineer #3 Posted Feb 01 2019 - 15:02

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View PostKatzeWolf, on Feb 01 2019 - 08:42, said:

Artillery does not discourage camping, it promotes it.

 

Just had a game where everyone was camping because of artillery, and as soon as someone made a push they got deleted by arty.

 

By the end of the game, all three arty had 3000 damage each.

 

While I agree is doesn't discourage camping, neither do the 6-8 TDs per team lately.  

sergeantmine09 #4 Posted Feb 01 2019 - 15:03

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View Postenjineer, on Feb 01 2019 - 08:02, said:

 

While I agree is doesn't discourage camping, neither do the 6-8 TDs per team lately.  

 

The only good thing about TD's is that they cannot cripple your entire crew while injuring one or two at the same time

enjineer #5 Posted Feb 01 2019 - 15:13

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View Postsergeantmine09, on Feb 01 2019 - 09:03, said:

 

The only good thing about TD's is that they cannot cripple your entire crew while injuring one or two at the same time

 

Nah, they just hit you 5 times without being seen, or in the JPZ, 4005 or 183s case, maybe once or twice and you're gone.

Walter49 #6 Posted Feb 01 2019 - 15:22

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I've seen mega-camping in games with any number of SPGs.  Camping is more attributable to lack of game experience and knowledge than a particular class of vehicles.

YANKEE137 #7 Posted Feb 01 2019 - 15:26

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View Postenjineer, on Feb 01 2019 - 15:13, said:

 

Nah, they just hit you 5 times without being seen, or in the JPZ, 4005 or 183s case, maybe once or twice and you're gone.

 

Getting nuked by the Sbarn is right up there with arty focus on my list of things I dislike. I play arty but the limit should be two and some maps (e.g. Mines) shouldn't have it at all.

KatzeWolf #8 Posted Feb 01 2019 - 15:42

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I don't have a problem with arty, but they should not be able to do as much damage as a HT or MT AND stun.

F4U_wingman #9 Posted Feb 01 2019 - 15:45

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Threads like this tell me who I can ad to the "list" when I play ARTY.

Welcome KatzeWolf you just got on it.



KatzeWolf #10 Posted Feb 01 2019 - 15:46

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View PostF4U_wingman, on Feb 02 2019 - 00:45, said:

Threads like this tell me who I can ad to the "list" when I play ARTY.

Welcome KatzeWolf you just got on it.

 

I play on the ANZ server, so I'm fine :P

sergeantmine09 #11 Posted Feb 01 2019 - 16:10

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View Postenjineer, on Feb 01 2019 - 08:13, said:

 

Nah, they just hit you 5 times without being seen, or in the JPZ, 4005 or 183s case, maybe once or twice and you're gone.

 

You have a better chance of surviving those than an arty you cannot see. I have bounced rounds from all of those tanks, believe it or not

sergeantmine09 #12 Posted Feb 01 2019 - 16:11

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View PostF4U_wingman, on Feb 01 2019 - 08:45, said:

Threads like this tell me who I can ad to the "list" when I play ARTY.

Welcome KatzeWolf you just got on it.

 

I am putting myself on that list just so I have a reason to find you... and exterminate 

heavymetal1967 #13 Posted Feb 01 2019 - 16:50

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Three things to consider.

 

Wheeled vehicles.  Personally I don't think they'll be as much a "counter" to arty as many are thinking.  But time will tell.

 

Crew skill rework will include, maybe likely include, a stun debuff.  This has been confirmed - I just can't recall if it was they're looking at a stun debuff or they are going to implement one.  Even if one is coming considering WG who knows when the when will be so to speak.

 

Arty (and Type 5) will be rebalanced.  This is from The Armored Patrol citing WG Fest.  Haven't seen it confirmed.  Or debunked for that matter, but it's hard to prove a negative, so...

 

Addendum... :P

 

Then re: the last bit - remember how the last rebalance worked out when they "fixed" it last time. :P

 

 



heavymetal1967 #14 Posted Feb 01 2019 - 17:04

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Btw, if we're being honest insta-delete is a rare [edited]thing now.   Unless we're talking tanks that are already considerably damaged.

 

Hell counter-battery HITS more often than not don't kill an opposing arty.

 

Only if an arty pens is there really a chance of insta-deleting anyone unless they're already damaged.  Caveats being a fire or ammo-rack.

 

Before someone takes this and misinterprets it I'm not saying this change balances the class.   But for the arty that gets stun it sure as hell wasn't a "nerf" - in my opinion.  The non stun arty got nerfed, but the stun arty got buffed imo.  Lef (and Sexton prem) being prems didn't get nerfed so they're the exceptions - again imo.

 

 


Edited by heavymetal1967, Feb 01 2019 - 17:06.


heavymetal1967 #15 Posted Feb 01 2019 - 17:13

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View PostYANKEE137, on Feb 01 2019 - 09:26, said:

 

Getting nuked by the Sbarn is right up there with arty focus on my list of things I dislike. I play arty but the limit should be two and some maps (e.g. Mines) shouldn't have it at all.

 

This at least for the two per.  Honestly I think the queues can handle two per without issue.  Granted at certain times it may take longer to drop into a match, but those times are problematic for other classes/tiers tbh.

 

Don't think they should limit arty (or any other class) from any maps.  Though I think you're arguing is counter to most.  Most being arty players crying about being on bad arty maps like Ensk vs. it sucks to play on Mines if their is arty in the match.

 

Regardless restricting any class on any map starts down a slippery slope best left untraveled imo.



enjineer #16 Posted Feb 01 2019 - 17:16

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View Postheavymetal1967, on Feb 01 2019 - 11:04, said:

Btw, if we're being honest insta-delete is a rare [edited]thing now.   Unless we're talking tanks that are already considerably damaged.

 

Hell counter-battery HITS more often than not don't kill an opposing arty.

 

Only if an arty pens is there really a chance of insta-deleting anyone unless they're already damaged.  Caveats being a fire or ammo-rack.

 

Before someone takes this and misinterprets it I'm not saying this change balances the class.   But for the arty that gets stun it sure as hell wasn't a "nerf" - in my opinion.  The non stun arty got nerfed, but the stun arty got buffed imo.  Lef (and Sexton prem) being prems didn't get nerfed so they're the exceptions - again imo.

 

 

 

Never mind CB hits not killing arty, how about hitting an IS7 for 30, a VK 100.01 for 91 and a T110E3 for 13 with a M53/55, then sitting there for 33 seconds to rinse/repeat.  Part of the reason I don't play arty much anymore, especially since I finally completed SPG-15 for the Obj 260.

Altwar #17 Posted Feb 01 2019 - 17:19

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View PostKatzeWolf, on Feb 01 2019 - 05:42, said:

Artillery does not discourage camping, it promotes it.

 

Just had a game where everyone was camping because of artillery, and as soon as someone made a push they got deleted by arty.

 

By the end of the game, all three arty had 3000 damage each.

 

And this alleged game you had (ANZ server, right?  Replay or it didn't happen, right?) sounds like it played right into the SPG players' hands. 

 

In higher tier SPG matches, non SPGs have roughly 30 seconds to do something before SPGs can fire.  If that something is to find a place to hide, then they have given the spotters a chance to get visual control of the map and helped enable the SPGs to do what they will do.

 

If, in a group or groups larger than 1, tanks push forward and seize visual control of the map, those SPGs may get a shot on them, but it is unlikely they will be deleted and now they have expanded the area of concern the enemy SPGs have to worry about while increased pressure on those SPGs to remain hidden.

 

What I allege is that intelligent aggressive play promotes a reduction in SPG effectiveness, an increased chance of revealing the position of those SPGs, and a better chance for friendly SPGs to support that aggression by hitting the revealed targets to reduce those targets effectiveness. 

 

For my own experience, when I see a team with more than one good player combine efforts and push aggressively, they immediately limit the enemy SPGs with their push and that gives their team a greater chance to win.  When you say you were in a battle where all 3 SPGs did 3k damage (seems highly unlikely to me), blame the team they faced for being really bad for allowing themselves to be farmed, because that is how it would have had to happen.



BillT #18 Posted Feb 01 2019 - 18:06

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View PostKatzeWolf, on Feb 01 2019 - 08:42, said:

Artillery does not discourage camping, it promotes it.

 

Just had a game where everyone was camping because of artillery, and as soon as someone made a push they got deleted by arty.

 

By the end of the game, all three arty had 3000 damage each.

 

Yep.  Camping is the last thing you should do when there's arty in the game.

 

Compared to other tanks, arty has terrible burst damage.  Its damage output is essentially linear with time due to the slow reload but ease of damaging the target.   So the way to beat arty is to push hard and win the game before it has time to do 3000 damage.  And I see that work time after time in Clan Wars.

 

In pubs, the problem is that people don't play as a team and everyone's afraid to be the first to stick out their neck.  So they chicken out and cower, and by doing so they make arty even more effective.  At some point, it's up to players to learn this and play more aggressively when arty is present, not less.



minneerminneer #19 Posted Feb 01 2019 - 18:12

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Nah it doesn't need work it needs to be removed

BillT #20 Posted Feb 01 2019 - 18:15

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View PostAltwar, on Feb 01 2019 - 11:19, said:

\When you say you were in a battle where all 3 SPGs did 3k damage (seem highly unlikely to me),

 

I agree with "highly unlikely", but it's likely enough that I wouldn't doubt the OP.  I've been in Clan Wars matches where two arty each did over 5K, thanks to an enemy who was out-artied but insisted on turtling instead of taking advantage of the fact that they had 15 direct-fire tanks to our 13 and going for the overmatch. 

 

The OP's match obviously was a perfect storm including:
  - 3 good arty players on one team

  - no effective CB arty players on the other team

  - an enemy team full of cowards who refused to figure out that camping wasn't working for them

  - a map where arty can work


Edited by BillT, Feb 01 2019 - 18:15.






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