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Two Ideas For Artillery Rebalance

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Rightfin #21 Posted Feb 03 2019 - 20:00

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No more than 1 arty in randoms, no more than 2 in Grand battles. If the queue is less than 2 minutes for SPG players, there is something wrong.

Easiest fix, and to encourage team play, remove the perfect intelligence of the overhead view - The overhead view should ONLY show tanks that a teammate has highlighted and pressed "T" to request a target.

 

 



WhineMaker #22 Posted Feb 03 2019 - 20:36

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View PostRightfin, on Feb 03 2019 - 11:00, said:

No more than 1 arty in randoms, no more than 2 in Grand battles. If the queue is less than 2 minutes for SPG players, there is something wrong.

Easiest fix, and to encourage team play, remove the perfect intelligence of the overhead view - The overhead view should ONLY show tanks that a teammate has highlighted and pressed "T" to request a target.

 

 

 

Or you can go play WoT Blitz, with the possibility of playing all your games arty free, all the time...

 

But I fully understand, this concept to play arty free games is well beyond your grasp... :(

 



R_Razor #23 Posted Feb 03 2019 - 21:18

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View PostWhineMaker, on Feb 03 2019 - 14:36, said:

 

Or you can go play WoT Blitz, with the possibility of playing all your games arty free, all the time...

 

But I fully understand, this concept to play arty free games is well beyond your grasp... :(

 

 

As I said, zero substance, a script has as much input into intellectual conversation as you, and would be less likely to be considered unintelligent. Perhaps you should change your name to scriptkiddie or something along those lines, I mean it's not as if you ever type anything other than blitz after all. 

F1O1 #24 Posted Feb 03 2019 - 22:07

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Dude,  arty has plenty of counters. 

 

- Although the game has changed with shell tracers being no longer as loud and visible as before, they still are there.

 

- Heavy tanks counter artillery. This may seem stupid, and it surely is frustrating, but heavy tanks technically counter artillery. In terms of attrition, and with all the super heavy tanks, thick armours, spaced armours, added spall liners, reusable med/repair consumable, track hits  -  vehicles like well armoured tanks, super heavy, assaults TD.....you get the picture. These tanks take very poor damage from all but the strongest artillery like GWE, T92, and Conqueror. This incredibly lowers arty DPM and lethality, making them pretty much only stun these enemies. Having an object 261 with such low ammunition, shoot  a Maus 10 times for 2K damage is about as depressing as the Maus sitting their getting stunned all that time, and still surviving the ordeal, Type 4 and 5 do the same thing. There you go, as stupid as it sounds, as much as artillery counter slow moving heavy tanks, it only does so as a team support, making heavy tanks easier for teams to gang up on. But in terms of distracting artillery from causing damage, heavily tanks TOTALLY BOG DOWN arty and counter it.

 

-Maps counter arty, big time. Do you enjoy arty on Ensk, Himmelsdorf, Minsk, Paris? An inability in terms of self defense, such as terrible close quarters gun performance, fire rate, low health are bad faults for sure. 

 

-The whole idea for their inaccuracy, long aim-time, shell flight-time, some with short range, are inherit counters arty have. They are tremendously unreliable.

 



madogthefirst #25 Posted Feb 03 2019 - 22:46

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View PostF1O1, on Feb 03 2019 - 05:17, said:

 

l rather have my crew blink and go 50%, and huddle behind a building for their taser effect,  than to have my tank 1-shot and sent back to the garage, for 2K damage by a T92 or Conqueror

 

You have 50 battles your opinion is invalid.



Volcanic_lobster_220 #26 Posted Feb 04 2019 - 03:35

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I like my arty rebalance idea better, and more fun too, 

give them shell 1: Spotter shell, spots targets, and shell 2: smoke shell, hides tanks from detection

and of course limit arty to 1 or 2 per side :)



Flarvin #27 Posted Feb 04 2019 - 03:50

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View PostVolcanic_lobster_220, on Feb 03 2019 - 21:35, said:

I like my arty rebalance idea better, and more fun too, 

give them shell 1: Spotter shell, spots targets, and shell 2: smoke shell, hides tanks from detection

and of course limit arty to 1 or 2 per side :)

 

No xp in that. 

 

Why would I play a class that gives out zero xp for its main abilities? 

 

Makes the most team dependent tank class, even more team dependent. 



spud_tuber #28 Posted Feb 04 2019 - 03:50

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OP, you say "rebalance", but you call for 2 nerfs.  SPGs as a class are already underperforming.   What buffs are you offering in exchange for these nerfs to make your proposal a true rebalance?

Blackgunner #29 Posted Feb 04 2019 - 04:28

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You know, I was one of if not the first to propose the stun mechanic. The original idea I had proposed was for it to be based on the number of crew skills and the caliber of the artillery hitting you. That was too complex I guess. Regardless the original idea was to offset the massive amount of damage that artillery was capable of inflicting by applying that damage in another form EG reducing the combat effectiveness of the vehicle. I don't really got any credit for it and I'm not going to lie it kind of hurts, but you know life goes on and arguably artillery is less outright devastating overall. Could it be better, sure. Could it be worse, oh absolutely. So while it may not be perfect, it's a hell of a lot closer to better then it is to absolutely worse.

 

This is coming from a guy who like to shoot 203 mm AP out of my SU - 14 - 1 and one shot enemy heavies



F1O1 #30 Posted Feb 04 2019 - 22:52

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View Postmadogthefirst, on Feb 03 2019 - 21:46, said:

You have 50 battles your opinion is invalid.

 

l don't look at the points, counters, tips, advice, notions, Etc  of some perm blue who is obviously still trapped in 2013, and thinks an average of 2 - 2.5K damage in tier ten is acceptable.

 



Grintch #31 Posted Feb 04 2019 - 23:42

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View PostRatnikk, on Feb 03 2019 - 03:01, said:

After the 1.0 update all the maps became less spg friendly than before. They added more cover on all the maps. Spg has already been nerfed to hell if they do it again its going to become an unusable vehicle. I dont see why people complain so much about spgs when you have 430u's and v4's dealing and blocking 6K damage every game. If you think spg is for players without skill then youre clueless and have never played arty or youre just horrible at it.

 

If Arty has.been nerfed so bad, why do 80-90% of games have the max amount of Arty allowed.  

 

Make it a ton less accurate, but crank up the rate of fire some.  Then we would have artillery barrages that send you running rather that laser guided smart bombs that take you out on the run with a single shot.



Tuturuuu #32 Posted Feb 04 2019 - 23:43

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View PostLewi_the_60TP, on Feb 03 2019 - 02:29, said:

Hello everyone,

 

So we know that artillery sadly will never be removed from the game so we need to come up with legitimate ideas for rebalance to make them less infuriating to play. I have two ideas that may work, both on limiting their damage projection.

 

Idea 1: Make all artillery have lower shell arcs. Perhaps the most frustrating thing is for artillery to be able to shoot around or over cover. With lowering of their shell arcs, it would require them to have a direct line of fire, thereby requiring them to move around to be able to keep shooting. Pretty straightforward. 

 

Idea 2: Limit Ary's range so they can only support one flank at a time and need to be up with that flank. This essentially means that they can no longer just sit in the back of the map. If they want to shoot a flank, they have to be on that flank. This means that they won't be the last people alive every game and that they will be able to be caught out will getting into position. This would make the class more of an assault cannon than camping artillery, and add require skill in a class that currently requires little. 

 

Obviously, the firepower and speed of arty may need to be adjusted, but that is something that can be discussed after we figure out a large scale overhaul idea.

 

In regards to idea 1: Isn't the ability to partially hit targets behind most forms of cover a feature of artillery? I thought this was part of the point of the class. I was also under the impression that relocating for more direct shots was already pretty much required for good artillery play. This depends heavily on the map though: Artillery has no reason to leave their safe corner in maps like Murovanka and Prokorovka (or however those are spelled), while Erlenberg and Airfield often reward artillery players for moving for more direct shots.

 

For idea 2: I'd very much like the idea of splitting artillery into vehicles optimized for close support and those optimized for long range support. It's a cool idea hamstrung by the fact that in retooling artillery for close support, you'd just be creating worse versions of existing assault guns. The whole glass cannon TD idea is already in the game.

 

Lastly, I think the central conceit of your post - that artillery needs worse damage projection - is silly. The "floor" for performance in artillery is fairly high, but it's not like you see artillery carry matches very often. 



YouPutTheMoronInOxymoron #33 Posted Feb 04 2019 - 23:50

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Honestly I just want the stun mechanic removed. In my opinion being hit by an arty shell for 6-700 dmg 1 or 2 times a match is better than being perma stunned and basically out of the battle.

F1O1 #34 Posted Feb 05 2019 - 00:24

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View PostYouPutTheMoronInOxymoron, on Feb 04 2019 - 22:50, said:

Honestly I just want the stun mechanic removed. In my opinion being hit by an arty shell for 6-700 dmg 1 or 2 times a match is better than being perma stunned and basically out of the battle.

 

You want there damage reduced, and stun removed? What does arty get?

 



ddraig_goch_ #35 Posted Feb 05 2019 - 02:40

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Arty is not balanced, it does not prevent camping. Arty players are leeches depending on others to find targets for them, and most have little game skill. They troll the forum pages saying it's other players who lack skill because they happen to be in the open(and yes, sometimes this is true). There should never be 3 arty in a game and it would serve them right to be forced to rotate thru the different tank types. That way their game percentage would be reasonable to type. Every time i get hit by arty, i will ping the map with the direction and my best guess of arty location, till things change, this is the best i can do to help shorten their game.

madogthefirst #36 Posted Feb 05 2019 - 05:17

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View PostF1O1, on Feb 04 2019 - 13:52, said:

 

l don't look at the points, counters, tips, advice, notions, Etc  of some perm blue who is obviously still trapped in 2013, and thinks an average of 2 - 2.5K damage in tier ten is acceptable.

You have 50 battles your opinion is invalid.



Ratnikk #37 Posted Feb 05 2019 - 05:29

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People cried when spgs could one-shot people and now people cry because of the stun mechanic. They gave you one finger and you want to take the whole hand now. Additional spg nerfs are unnacceptable in my opinion.

WhineMaker #38 Posted Feb 05 2019 - 05:31

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View Postspud_tuber, on Feb 03 2019 - 18:50, said:

OP, you say "rebalance", but you call for 2 nerfs. SPGs as a class are already underperforming. What buffs are you offering in exchange for these nerfs to make your proposal a true rebalance?

 

There are no buffs that are acceptable coming from the anti arty whine club. That would spoil all of the effects of the constant whining and crying.

 

View Postmadogthefirst, on Feb 04 2019 - 20:17, said:

You have 50 battles your opinion is invalid.

 

Maybe his Mom repeatedly told OP was he/she was extra "special"... :child:



sparango #39 Posted Feb 05 2019 - 06:03

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I say give them 8 rounds and make them cost 3 times more then they do currently. And limit them to one per side per game.

SquishySupreme #40 Posted Feb 05 2019 - 06:58

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Every time I have been hit by artillery, I have been out of position, by myself, or caught in tunnel-vision.  100% my fault.  And I play mostly Artillery, so I know the spots and cover well enough.

The trick with artillery is to make yourself the 2nd or 3rd most attractive target.  If you are the first red dot they see on the map, they all will take a free first shot at you.  If you are out in the open and not moving, you are likely going to be targeted.  If you are a TD, well, expect to be a higher priority as you are easier to kill and do lots of potential damage as a rule.  If you are a known DERP-Box like the KV-2, expect to be targeted.  If people hate your tank ( E25 comes to mind ), expect to be targeted more often.

Look, there are 10 other games that allow you to play tanks at some level.  Only one has artillery, which is a unique and interesting element of tactical play.  If they remove it, why should I not just go over to some other game instead that is mindless drive-point-shoot action?





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