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Arty is Exactly How it is Supposed to be... and that's why some people don't like it


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Poll: Arty Preference (129 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 100 battles in order to participate this poll.

Which arty do you prefer?

  1. Old Arty (97 votes [75.19%])

    Percentage of vote: 75.19%

  2. New Arty (32 votes [24.81%])

    Percentage of vote: 24.81%

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Burning_Haggis #41 Posted Feb 09 2019 - 22:33

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View PostProfessionalFinn, on Feb 09 2019 - 15:19, said:

 

Sorry for your lack of understanding.  Try thinking a bit.  

 

Come up out of all those tier 4 and 5 battles, then maybe it would make more sense to you

Tliish #42 Posted Feb 09 2019 - 22:40

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View PostPringworm, on Feb 09 2019 - 13:32, said:

 

I think you misunderstand the concept of counterplay. 

 

Feel free to share your definition.

 

Mine is that a counterplay is whatever it takes to counter a given play, and in this case the play is that arty works off spotting by others, so in reality you have two counterplays: destroy the spotters or force them to retire, rendering arty blind and ineffective, or go after the source, the arties themselves, which is most effectively done by using the ignored middle of the map, working from cover to cover until fast breakout opportunity to light them and destroy them.



Pringworm #43 Posted Feb 09 2019 - 22:45

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View PostTliish, on Feb 09 2019 - 16:40, said:

 

Feel free to share your definition.

 

Mine is that a counterplay is whatever it takes to counter a given play, and in this case the play is that arty works off spotting by others, so in reality you have two counterplays: destroy the spotters or force them to retire, rendering arty blind and ineffective, or go after the source, the arties themselves, which is most effectively done by using the ignored middle of the map, working from cover to cover until fast breakout opportunity to light them and destroy them.

 

I literally just wrote an example. 

Edited by Pringworm, Feb 09 2019 - 22:46.


ProfessionalFinn #44 Posted Feb 09 2019 - 22:46

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View PostBurning_Haggis, on Feb 09 2019 - 13:33, said:

 

Come up out of all those tier 4 and 5 battles, then maybe it would make more sense to you

 

So my +12K battles above Tier V is an insufficient sample?  Tank you for the hearty belly laugh. 

Since you are of a statistical mind, I play SPGs less than 7% of the time.  Heavy tanks are my favorite class of armor.

Yet I fully understand the why and the beauty behind WG's conscious decision, from the get go, to include the SPG class of armor. 

Sorry you do not.  

 



Pringworm #45 Posted Feb 09 2019 - 22:47

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View PostBurning_Haggis, on Feb 09 2019 - 16:33, said:

 

Come up out of all those tier 4 and 5 battles, then maybe it would make more sense to you

 

Don't bother. Debating it with people is a waste of time, and WG already said they were looking into arty again this year. Hoping 3rd time is the charm. 

Tliish #46 Posted Feb 09 2019 - 22:58

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View PostPringworm, on Feb 09 2019 - 13:32, said:

 

I think you misunderstand the concept of counterplay. Yes, you can kill the artillery, but you don't interact with arty in any way other to kill it or get shot by it. That's piss poor game design.

 

Lol, you can't interact with anything in this game other than that.

Pringworm #47 Posted Feb 09 2019 - 23:00

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View PostTliish, on Feb 09 2019 - 16:58, said:

 

Lol, you can't interact with anything in this game other than that.

 

Oh please, players do a crap ton of things to interact with each other.

 

Currently, Artillery works outside of the vision system, bypassing the interaction most tanks need to spot each other. Arty cares not, only the radio range is needed, which is in abundant supply. Meaning you can shoot from relative safety on most maps. 


Edited by Pringworm, Feb 09 2019 - 23:12.


Burning_Haggis #48 Posted Feb 09 2019 - 23:22

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View PostProfessionalFinn, on Feb 09 2019 - 15:46, said:

 

So my +12K battles above Tier V is an insufficient sample?  Tank you for the hearty belly laugh. 

Since you are of a statistical mind, I play SPGs less than 7% of the time.  Heavy tanks are my favorite class of armor.

Yet I fully understand the why and the beauty behind WG's conscious decision, from the get go, to include the SPG class of armor. 

Sorry you do not.  

 

 

There is a huge difference between 3 arty at tier 8-10.    If that is lost on you, bingo... there is the problem.     Tell me again, what size gun does the stun mechanic begin? Hmmmm???      even if small guns could stun that tier 4 valentine of yours, the radius is so small it doesn't matter.  Play more 8's, face a few tier 10 arty that have a stun radius is several tank lengths, or go back to that pref MM valentine, and continue to tell us how great the arty mechanic is for the game.

 



Pringworm #49 Posted Feb 09 2019 - 23:28

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View PostBurning_Haggis, on Feb 09 2019 - 17:22, said:

 

There is a huge difference between 3 arty at tier 8-10.    If that is lost on you, bingo... there is the problem.     Tell me again, what size gun does the stun mechanic begin? Hmmmm???      even if small guns could stun that tier 4 valentine of yours, the radius is so small it doesn't matter.  Play more 8's, face a few tier 10 arty that have a stun radius is several tank lengths, or go back to that pref MM valentine, and continue to tell us how great the arty mechanic is for the game.

 

 

This, we traded getting one hit by arty for having our crew skills being set to 50%. If you're a player that actively wishes that on another person, sorry, but I would pay WG money never to listen to you again. 

Tliish #50 Posted Feb 09 2019 - 23:33

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View PostPringworm, on Feb 09 2019 - 14:00, said:

 

Oh please, players do a crap ton of things to interact with each other.

 

Currently, Artillery works outside of the vision system, bypassing the interaction most tanks need to spot each other. Arty cares not, only the radio range is needed, which is in abundant supply. Meaning you can shoot from relative safety on most maps. 

 

You just don't get it, do you?

 

You seem to think that finding and killing arty is impossible, which it isn't, I do it all the time (100+ Pascucci's, hundreds, if not thousands, more single kills). Arty most certainly isn't immune to the sighting system, the view range of most arties is poor, and any decent scout or scouting med can spot them long before the arty has a chance to see them.

 

But you have to be willing to move and hunt them, which apparently you aren't willing to do, which tells me you most likely like to camp and peekaboom rather than maneuver. I've found that the vast majority of players who whine about arty are passive peekaboomers who rely on others to spot for them and rarely move from their first firing position. That may not precisely describe you, but I'd wager I'm not far off the mark. Once spotted, arties and many tds are pretty much instantly dead because they lack armor, or because they are so dangerous everyone with a shot immediately targets them, one or two shots usually putting paid to those lacking armor, or succumbing to multiple shots from all directions, FV183s being an example.

 

But if you lack the balls to go spot them yourself and constantly rely on others to do your spotting for you, yeah, I can see where you'd have problems with arty.

 

But once you ditch the camping and peekabooming mentality and start actually using the fact that your vehicle has an engine and tracks for a reason, arty is much neutered.



Pringworm #51 Posted Feb 09 2019 - 23:37

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View PostTliish, on Feb 09 2019 - 17:33, said:

 

You just don't get it, do you?

 

You seem to think that finding and killing arty is impossible, which it isn't, I do it all the time (100+ Pascucci's, hundreds, if not thousands, more single kills). Arty most certainly isn't immune to the sighting system, the view range of most arties is poor, and any decent scout or scouting med can spot them long before the arty has a chance to see them.

 

But you have to be willing to move and hunt them, which apparently you aren't willing to do, which tells me you most likely like to camp and peekaboom rather than maneuver. I've found that the vast majority of players who whine about arty are passive peekaboomers who rely on others to spot for them and rarely move from their first firing position. That may not precisely describe you, but I'd wager I'm not far off the mark. Once spotted, arties and many tds are pretty much instantly dead because they lack armor, or because they are so dangerous everyone with a shot immediately targets them, one or two shots usually putting paid to those lacking armor, or succumbing to multiple shots from all directions, FV183s being an example.

 

But if you lack the balls to go spot them yourself and constantly rely on others to do your spotting for you, yeah, I can see where you'd have problems with arty.

 

But once you ditch the camping and peekabooming mentality and start actually using the fact that your vehicle has an engine and tracks for a reason, arty is much neutered.

 

If you have to Strawman to defend arty, then it's a sign you don't know what you are talking about. I never debated those things and you know that.

Edited by Pringworm, Feb 09 2019 - 23:40.


Tliish #52 Posted Feb 09 2019 - 23:50

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Block Quote

 If you have to Strawman to defend arty, then it's a sign you don't know what you are talking about. I never debated those things and you know that.

 

 

You claimed that you can't interact with arty.

 

You claimed that arty is outside the sighting system.

 

Both hypotheses are obviously, provably false.

 

To interact with arty as with any other vehicle, you just need to move forward far enough to spot them.

 

Only someone who fails to do that would make the claims you've made.


Edited by Tliish, Feb 09 2019 - 23:51.


Pringworm #53 Posted Feb 09 2019 - 23:57

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View PostTliish, on Feb 09 2019 - 17:50, said:

 

 

You claimed that you can't interact with arty.

 

You claimed that arty is outside the sighting system.

 

Both hypotheses are obviously, provably false.

 

To interact with arty as with any other vehicle, you just need to move forward far enough to spot them.

 

Only someone who fails to do that would make the claims you've made.

 

Again you're displaying your ignorance of what I am actually talking about. I am talking about counterplay, there is no counter-play for arty in the game currently. I never claimed that you do not interact arty in any capacity, nor am I making that argument.

 

You made a strawman and attacked that. Simple as that.

 

If you want to really debate arty. Please tell me why the stun mechanic deserves to be in the game, what does it offer? Please tell me how a class being able to do damage at no risk from the other player or team deserves to be in the game if WG actively makes maps that benefit artillery and not scouts or mediums? 


Edited by Pringworm, Feb 10 2019 - 00:01.


ProfessionalFinn #54 Posted Feb 09 2019 - 23:59

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View PostBurning_Haggis, on Feb 09 2019 - 14:22, said:

 

There is a huge difference between 3 arty at tier 8-10.    If that is lost on you, bingo... there is the problem.     Tell me again, what size gun does the stun mechanic begin? Hmmmm???      even if small guns could stun that tier 4 valentine of yours, the radius is so small it doesn't matter.  Play more 8's, face a few tier 10 arty that have a stun radius is several tank lengths, or go back to that pref MM valentine, and continue to tell us how great the arty mechanic is for the game.

 

You are so funny.  Like a yorkshire terrier that refuses to let go of a squeeze toy.

 

Lets set a low-bar question for you.  My over 3,100 games at Tier VIII and higher (which includes 780 playing SPGs) is an insufficient sample for me to have an informed opinion on the topic at hand?

Love the laughs you provide.  Tanks!

 



TVWizard #55 Posted Feb 10 2019 - 00:05

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Just remove the retarded "stun" mechanic and make it so arty CAN NOT get gold rounds whatsoever and it would be perfect. but the devs are completely and totally braindead

ProfessionalFinn #56 Posted Feb 10 2019 - 00:13

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View PostTVWizard, on Feb 09 2019 - 15:05, said:

Just remove the retarded "stun" mechanic and make it so arty CAN NOT get gold rounds whatsoever and it would be perfect. but the devs are completely and totally braindead

 

 

So (braindead) devs make the decisions SPG functionality at WG? 

Isn't this the responsibility of WG product managers and marketing?

 



Burning_Haggis #57 Posted Feb 10 2019 - 00:31

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View PostProfessionalFinn, on Feb 09 2019 - 16:59, said:

You are so funny.  Like a yorkshire terrier that refuses to let go of a squeeze toy.

 

Lets set a low-bar question for you.  My over 3,100 games at Tier VIII and higher (which includes 780 playing SPGs) is an insufficient sample for me to have an informed opinion on the topic at hand?

Love the laughs you provide.  Tanks!

 

 

Must be a member of the tide-pod generation, you seem to have the same problem with twisting a statement to match what you want it to say.  

 

What I said i that playing a well-armored pref MM tier 4, and a bunch of tier 5, both of which do not face arty capable of actually producing a stun, and which have a burst radius less than 1.5m, then telling us how stun isn't broken is ridiculously foolish, and makes you look silly. It makes you look like another WG arty shill, and for the most part irrelevant to the discussion.    but I was trying to be a little less direct about it.



ProfessionalFinn #58 Posted Feb 10 2019 - 00:37

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View PostBurning_Haggis, on Feb 09 2019 - 15:31, said:

 

Must be a member of the tide-pod generation, you seem to have the same problem with twisting a statement to match what you want it to say.  

 

What I said i that playing a well-armored pref MM tier 4, and a bunch of tier 5, both of which do not face arty capable of actually producing a stun, and which have a burst radius less than 1.5m, then telling us how stun isn't broken is ridiculously foolish, and makes you look silly. It makes you look like another WG arty shill, and for the most part irrelevant to the discussion.    but I was trying to be a little less direct about it.

 

How might I even remotely be an "arty shill" when only 7% of my battles are playing SPGs?

I love fighting with and against SPGs.  I rarely play arty.

SPGs make the WoT game great!  SPGs have been part of WoT from day zero, arty is integral to the game. Always has been, always will be.

WG got this right.  Bravo!



dunniteowl #59 Posted Feb 10 2019 - 00:47

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View PostPringworm, on Feb 09 2019 - 15:15, said:

Honestly, I never understood why artillery is in this game with its a current iteration. I don't understand the previous one either, and I have found WG's talk around them to be a pitiful excuse as if they have to make them the way they are because they need something for people with bad reflexes and poor eyesight to play. It's a joke really, and I don't value anyone's opinion defending them. 

 

Then you are posting here for what reason?  I don't see the value in a point of view that cannot value a countering point of view -- especially when you are wrong in the first place.  It's "current iteration?"  Seriously?  SPGs have been in the game since its inception.  It's considered, by WG as integral to the nature of the game.

 

This means you do not value WGs opinion on the matter.  This means you should probably find another game.  It's hard to believe a person could value playing a game when they do not value the counter opinion of the developers of said game.

 

If I were a robot hearing this sort of stuff input into my datastream, I'd start shooting sparks and shout, "Logic Error!  Does not compute!  Logic Error!"

 

I get you don't like arty.  That you don't value the opinion of anyone who disagrees with you is just -- sad at its core.  Nothing about this attitude would get you very far in any sort of discussion where countering opinions are expressed as part and parcel of the process of forwarding ideas.

 

It's cool, though.  You do you.  I'm sure you won't value my point of view calling into question the value of your having this point of view, because it runs counter to your feels.  That's okay, too.  I'll still do me anyway.

 

 

OvO


Edited by dunniteowl, Feb 10 2019 - 00:52.


Tliish #60 Posted Feb 10 2019 - 00:49

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View PostPringworm, on Feb 09 2019 - 14:57, said:

 

Again you're displaying your ignorance of what I am actually talking about. I am talking about counterplay, there is no counter-play for arty in the game currently. I never claimed that you do not interact arty in any capacity, nor am I making that argument.

 

You made a strawman and attacked that. Simple as that.

 

If you want to really debate arty. Please tell me why the stun mechanic deserves to be in the game, what does it offer? Please tell me how a class being able to do damage at no risk from the other player or team deserves to be in the game if WG actively makes maps that benefit artillery and not scouts or mediums? 

 

The stun mechanic accurately reflects the real-world effects of artillery, and is a decent trade-off for reduced direct damage. have you ever actually been under fire in the real world? I have, and trust me, a close hit does indeed stun and reduce everyone's effectiveness for a little while, even if it causes no visible direct damage.

 

So tell me what your counterplay is for tds with high camo, high vr, and an accurate and quick-firing gun.

 

Everything you dislike about arty is there in spades, since such a td is an invisitank and can one-hit to boot, something impossible for arty today, especially if the td is working with a decent spotter, so why reserve your ire for arty? TDs are vastly more accurate and powerful than arty, and account for far more kills.

 

Yet again you make a provably false assertion, that arty is somehow invulnerable to being countered. Skilled arty players counter enemy arty all the time, watching for tree falls and tracers, so that kills your assertion that arty does damage at no risk to itself, patent bs.

 

Yet again you ignore the fact that arty is extremely vulnerable to aggressive scout or medium play.

 

Try playing something besides heavies and be more aggressive in hunting arty and you'll see what a huge difference that makes.






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