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The only constant in MM is YOU


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Urabouttudie #41 Posted Feb 13 2019 - 16:20

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View PostNeatoMan, on Feb 12 2019 - 18:21, said:

hmmm... let's see, I am losing a lot in my RhmPzw.   I decided to do an experiment to see how low it can go, so I start yoloing straight ahead every single game.  So rather than having to accept that playing like an idiot doesn't deserve wins, the MM should put more good players on my teams to ensure that my yoloing doesn't lead to too any negative results.  I can keep yoloing, and not have to suffer any negative effects on my ability to win games.  Makes perfect sense.

 

I am curious Neato...no attacks, just a curious question...

 

Suspend your state of believe for a moment will you? Assume the MM is "rigged"...but hang on to those logic receptors!!

 

Why in the world would it be rigged to help players performing as you have described "testing" above?

 

If you can...conceive of a "rigged" MM that is actually designed to help those who need it, not help those who don't...and still discreetly turns a rapid profit for the company who created it.

 

In my estimatikon, your "test" would abosolutely NOT produce any results indicating "rigging" because it would not be designed to "rig" for those types of players.

 

I'm not discussing whether it is "rigged" or not...only how you apparently perceive it would be implemented.

 

What results would a "rigged" MM produce in your opinion? More importantly...for whom?


Edited by Urabouttudie, Feb 13 2019 - 16:23.


24cups #42 Posted Feb 13 2019 - 16:29

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Question for Ajabooboo.

If you truly believe what you posted,  why on earth have you continued to play since 2011 ?

I really want to know why.

dunniteowl #43 Posted Feb 13 2019 - 16:42

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View PostAJABOOBOO, on Feb 12 2019 - 14:45, said:

well this is a meaningless troll post designed for two purposes.

Trolling is obvious and thats to troll all who think the MM is not fair to say the least and is designed to predetermine matches.

only problem with that is.... There are only multiple patents owned by WG that describe the process in detail of match rigging based on player Win/Loss rate and performance and the justification for this said program is dubious at best especially when you observe and collect data on MM and player performance.

In short WG has patented code and has admitted in press statements that the MM is based on match rigging or as they put it and i am paraphrasing from WoT own news release "to encourage fast match turnovers to reduce wait times in battle que" and "they are looking for a more COD style of play and match speeds"....

 

Second is fan boi love.

I know you think WoT is the best thinig since sliced bread and that you have spent money on this "product" and therefore must justify your own spending but really?

Defending a company who has lied to, stolen from and cheated every paying customer and free to play person with scandals ranging from but not limited to:

 

bait and switch Premium tanks

 

P2W premium tanks,

the chrysler nonsense tank is a perfect example with machine gun port weakness looking area skinned over the actual damage texture which lacked these visual weak points.

 

Assisting specific clans directly with bonus codes and gifts giving them unfair advantages over other, cash spending customers and clans.

 

Power creep for profits model

 

False DMCA claims against critiques online

 

Still to this day hidden soft stats that conceal the actual performance of tanks in game play.

 

Extreme home national bias

....

need i go on?

 

so you found one game where mm placed you on a somewhat even match!

OMG call the press that must mean ALL OF WG KNOWN MM rigging and problems are solved PRAISE JESUS!

actually it only means you are just another mod using XVM user and fan boi who is doing nothing but attempting to troll those who know the MM is anything but legit or fair.

 

Maybe you should re-name this topic to "Look a fair game for once!"

 

they happen yes and no one says they dont. We do say that they happen fewer than rigged ones.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow, this is the first time I've seen someone disclose that they're trolling right up front.  I love the fact that you are so honest about your intent.  Well Played.

 

 

OvO


Edited by dunniteowl, Feb 13 2019 - 16:47.


Copacetic #44 Posted Feb 13 2019 - 16:58

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View PostUrabouttudie, on Feb 13 2019 - 16:20, said:

 

I am curious Neato...no attacks, just a curious question...

 

Suspend your state of believe for a moment will you? Assume the MM is "rigged"...but hang on to those logic receptors!!

 

Why in the world would it be rigged to help players performing as you have described "testing" above?

 

If you can...conceive of a "rigged" MM that is actually designed to help those who need it, not help those who don't...and still discreetly turns a rapid profit for the company who created it.

 

In my estimatikon, your "test" would abosolutely NOT produce any results indicating "rigging" because it would not be designed to "rig" for those types of players.

 

I'm not discussing whether it is "rigged" or not...only how you apparently perceive it would be implemented.

 

What results would a "rigged" MM produce in your opinion? More importantly...for whom?

 

translation: let me dispell any attempts to prove mm isn't rigged by discrediting the test method up front

QuicksilverJPR #45 Posted Feb 13 2019 - 19:50

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View Post24cups, on Feb 13 2019 - 10:29, said:

Question for Ajabooboo.

If you truly believe what you posted, why on earth have you continued to play since 2011 ?

I really want to know why.

 

He's not going to answer honestly, and certainly not with any knowledge...

Tolos #46 Posted Feb 13 2019 - 20:20

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View PostQuicksilverJPR, on Feb 13 2019 - 18:50, said:

 

He's not going to answer honestly, and certainly not with any knowledge...

 

This is what always baffles me about these ' MM is rigged ' players. If they TRULY believe the MM is rigged, WHY would they play. You would have to be a moron to play a game you honestly believe is against you. 

golruul #47 Posted Feb 13 2019 - 21:17

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So, regarding some comments on streaks and such (i.e. "MM giving me bad teams because I lost 5/7 games yesterday!!!"), you also have to take into consideration the tanks you're playing.  I'm a pretty good player, but when I play arty, you can guarantee that I'm going to lose a lot more.  Not because of MM or rigging or whatnot, but because arty can't carry games as easily as a heavy/medium can.

 

Similarly, if my daily rotation is AMX 65t, T-34-2, TVP, and Indien Panzer, you can also guarantee that I'm going to be losing more.  These tanks just suck and my winrate will be reflecting that.



NeatoMan #48 Posted Feb 13 2019 - 23:14

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View PostUrabouttudie, on Feb 13 2019 - 10:20, said:

 

I am curious Neato...no attacks, just a curious question...

 

Suspend your state of believe for a moment will you? Assume the MM is "rigged"...but hang on to those logic receptors!!

 

Why in the world would it be rigged to help players performing as you have described "testing" above?

 

If you can...conceive of a "rigged" MM that is actually designed to help those who need it, not help those who don't...and still discreetly turns a rapid profit for the company who created it.

 

In my estimatikon, your "test" would abosolutely NOT produce any results indicating "rigging" because it would not be designed to "rig" for those types of players.

 

I'm not discussing whether it is "rigged" or not...only how you apparently perceive it would be implemented.

 

What results would a "rigged" MM produce in your opinion? More importantly...for whom?

 

I am not testing a rigged hypothesis with this one.  I am basically testing the 40% bot win rate assumption.  I think I'll end up going far below that, which would mean that its "weight" on its teams goes way beyond what it should be.  Either its MM weight is totally borked or the other LTs its matched against are far better than the server stats indicate.

 

I'd have to go back to the patent that so many riggers love to misrepresent as my first guide.  In theory that version of rigging would help poor players and hurt good players, so it would push everyone toward 50% win rates.  My tier 10 win rates are not very good, and if I believe the "rigged" portion of the patent is in effect, my tier 10 tanks should be getting some help.   However, the "help" described in the patent would actually make things worse for my Rhm.  If I get more top tier (i.e. more 3-5-7 MM) instead of all tier 10 or 5-10 MM, and I am in a tank I suck at, is utter garbage, or has an inflated MM weight, then it will lose even more than if I just had random MM.  Basically, it would be a rigged system that does the opposite of what it's claiming to do.

 

As to your idea of it only helping players who truly "need" it, how is it going to determine who truly needs it and who is "faking it"?   It's a computer algorithm after all.  It's pretty anal at following instructions.   Just look at the team damage ban system.   It's pretty bad at distinguishing intentional team damage from accidental.  It just goes by the numbers.  If the numbers add up, BAN.  If not... you are clear.   That's pretty much how well I'd expect a rigged system designed by WG to work (i.e. not very good at all).

 

If I wanted to design a rigged system that would help bad players, and rein in good players a skill balanced MM would be the best method by far.



da_Rock002 #49 Posted Feb 13 2019 - 23:51

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View PostTolos, on Feb 13 2019 - 14:20, said:

 

This is what always baffles me about these ' MM is rigged ' players. If they TRULY believe the MM is rigged, WHY would they play. You would have to be a moron to play a game you honestly believe is against you.

 

 

Most of them say the MM is broken.  

Since it's easier to argue against rigged, that's what the fanbois say they say so it's easier to make them look stupid.  

 

Do you have proof they are actually playing? 


 

Do you know that broken doesn't mean rigged?



Tolos #50 Posted Feb 13 2019 - 23:53

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View Postda_Rock002, on Feb 13 2019 - 22:51, said:

 

 

Most of them say the MM is broken.  

Since it's easier to argue against rigged, that's what the fanbois say they say so it's easier to make them look stupid.  

 

Do you have proof they are actually playing? 


 

Do you know that broken doesn't mean rigged?

 

No, most of them say it's rigged, SOME say its broken. Neither of which are true. 

DEADTIME #51 Posted Feb 14 2019 - 00:00

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Oooh a new mantra we can add to "it's server side" and "get gud" I thought the only constant in MM is the MM, we all as players fluctuate (accept you of course). No doubt you see a different MM than others, either by skill level, "mods" or an MM that is programmed to obviously not be consistent. 

BurglarOfBanff_ff #52 Posted Feb 14 2019 - 03:09

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Spoken by someone who sat in back in a Jgpz E100 and watched his team die, then claim "It's a support tank"

Copacetic #53 Posted Feb 14 2019 - 16:38

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View PostBurglarOfBanff_ff, on Feb 14 2019 - 03:09, said:

Spoken by someone who sat in back in a Jgpz E100 and watched his team die, then claim "It's a support tank"

 

exactly. In that particular game at least. If he'd been with his heavies, got some high alpha shots in, bounced some enemy shots with all his armor, even took a few damage shots from the enemy to keep his heavy teammates alive longer so they could do more damage themselves. His team might have won. But thats the kind of stuff these mental pygmies don't comprehend. They'd rather complain about MM not giving them teammates good enough to carry them.

Edited by Copacetic, Feb 14 2019 - 16:56.


Urabouttudie #54 Posted Feb 15 2019 - 15:29

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View PostCopacetic, on Feb 13 2019 - 07:58, said:

 

translation: let me dispell any attempts to prove mm isn't rigged by discrediting the test method up front

 

It's nice that you were able to boost your alt account's post count...glad I could provide you the opportunity as I know how important it is to you George...

Urabouttudie #55 Posted Feb 15 2019 - 15:39

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View PostNeatoMan, on Feb 13 2019 - 14:14, said:

 

I am not testing a rigged hypothesis with this one.  I am basically testing the 40% bot win rate assumption.  I think I'll end up going far below that, which would mean that its "weight" on its teams goes way beyond what it should be.  Either its MM weight is totally borked or the other LTs its matched against are far better than the server stats indicate.

 

I'd have to go back to the patent that so many riggers love to misrepresent as my first guide.  In theory that version of rigging would help poor players and hurt good players, so it would push everyone toward 50% win rates.  My tier 10 win rates are not very good, and if I believe the "rigged" portion of the patent is in effect, my tier 10 tanks should be getting some help.   However, the "help" described in the patent would actually make things worse for my Rhm.  If I get more top tier (i.e. more 3-5-7 MM) instead of all tier 10 or 5-10 MM, and I am in a tank I suck at, is utter garbage, or has an inflated MM weight, then it will lose even more than if I just had random MM.  Basically, it would be a rigged system that does the opposite of what it's claiming to do.

 

As to your idea of it only helping players who truly "need" it, how is it going to determine who truly needs it and who is "faking it"?   It's a computer algorithm after all.  It's pretty anal at following instructions.   Just look at the team damage ban system.   It's pretty bad at distinguishing intentional team damage from accidental.  It just goes by the numbers.  If the numbers add up, BAN.  If not... you are clear.   That's pretty much how well I'd expect a rigged system designed by WG to work (i.e. not very good at all).

 

If I wanted to design a rigged system that would help bad players, and rein in good players a skill balanced MM would be the best method by far.

 

I appreciate the reply, thanks.

 

In your estimation...if you cannot, or have not detected statistical anomalies in all the usual places you would expect to find that evidence of "rigging" how then would you have it programmed to do it's job and still remain undetectable to that statistical analysis? [in a general sense]

 

That is to say, If it's job was to both assist poorly performing players while avoiding an influence on good performing players...



NeatoMan #56 Posted Feb 15 2019 - 16:15

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View PostUrabouttudie, on Feb 15 2019 - 09:39, said:

In your estimation...if you cannot, or have not detected statistical anomalies in all the usual places you would expect to find that evidence of "rigging" how then would you have it programmed to do it's job and still remain undetectable to that statistical analysis? [in a general sense]

 

That is to say, If it's job was to both assist poorly performing players while avoiding an influence on good performing players...

I don't think you could do it using the MM.  It's not a good way to get that kind of effect.   Anything you do to manipulate which skilled players end up on which teams will show up in any analysis.  If they try to make it subtle, then the results will also be subtle (i.e. so insignificant, that it wouldn't be worth it).  IMO the large 15-man random teams already assist poor players plenty.  Being able to win ~40% of the time by playing like a bot is quite a bit of assistance.

 

MM weights might be a way; e.g. if you are a bad player your MM weights are reduced so that you get stronger tanks on your teams (not necessarily better players, just tanks that are OP).  Indirectly this would also lead to getting better team mates over time, but it would be a little harder to detect.

 

You could use RNG to assist poor players without affecting good players.  That would also be harder to detect.  However, I don't think that would have a huge effect, since decisions are the biggest factor in this game.  The RNG would have to be so stupidly out of whack to significantly help bad players.



Urabouttudie #57 Posted Feb 16 2019 - 15:48

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View PostNeatoMan, on Feb 15 2019 - 07:15, said:

...

 

Thanks for commenting






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