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Does the order you train skills/perks matter?


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TrevorsT112 #1 Posted Feb 11 2019 - 16:26

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Does the calculated benefit from accumulated skills/perks change depending on the order that they are trained? In other words, is the beneficial effect that the BIA perk has on other skills/perks calculated differently depending on when it was trained?  

 

Eg. Commander    BIA, Sixth Sense, Recon, Concealment  or

                               Sixth Sense, Recon, Concealment, BIA



RHeadshot #2 Posted Feb 11 2019 - 16:35

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My understanding is that it will not matter once you get there, but frankly I'm not sure I'd trust WG to actually know.  Obviously, some of the skills don't kick in until you've trained them to 100%, and since it takes longer to get to your 4th skill than your 1st there could be some effect before you get to 100%.  Using the 2nd of your scenarios, BIA not only requires training to 100%, it requires training EVERY crew member to 100% before it becomes effective.  That's a long time when it's your 4th skill, and you're getting no benefit from it during training.  IN the first example, BIA was done early so you have that benefit, the concealment (I believe) starts improving your skills once you start training, and it does not require every crew member to be trained on it to come into effect.

Edited by RHeadshot, Feb 11 2019 - 16:42.


Ndtm #3 Posted Feb 11 2019 - 16:45

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They would have to code that in for it to work that way which would be quite a weird thing if they did, and also the compare editor wouldn't work if the effects changed since you select which ones you want and not in what order they go.

the only difference is the amount of exp needed



dunniteowl #4 Posted Feb 11 2019 - 16:48

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View PostTrevorsT112, on Feb 11 2019 - 09:26, said:

Does the calculated benefit from accumulated skills/perks change depending on the order that they are trained? In other words, is the beneficial effect that the BIA perk has on other skills/perks calculated differently depending on when it was trained?  

 

Eg. Commander    BIA, Sixth Sense, Recon, Concealment  or

                               Sixth Sense, Recon, Concealment, BIA

 

Yes and No.

 

If you train a Skill, it  begins to accrue a benefit immediately, so as long as it is 'in process' you are still getting some benefit from the Skill as it's leveling to 100%.  If you do this with a Perk, it DOES NOT PROVIDE ANY BENEFIT until it reaches 100%.  So if you decide to train up a Perk first, for example, you will be waiting until it reaches 100% before you see any benefit from it.

 

If you do not train with Gold (buying skills or Perks, which is insanely "expensive" relatively speaking) then the standard 'thing to do' is to wait until you have reached at least 40% on your 3rd Skill/Perk and then "reset" them.  At this point, you can retrain the Skills/Perks.  If you use Gold at this point it will cost you 200 Gold per Crew Member.  If you use Credits and Reset, it will be Regimental Level Training and cost you 20K credits per Crew Member.

 

Gold:  If you reset the Skills/Perks with Gold, you lose nothing in the Skills/Perks and can then reselect the Skills/Perks you wish in any order you wish.  In this case, when you reset you might want to pick BIA for all your crew at that point first, just for the sake of ensuring that you don't forget it.  

 

Credits:  If you reset Skills/Perks with Credits, you lose 10% of the XP value of EACH Skill or Perk.  This means, in the 'standard' method with credits of waiting until you are at 40% on the 3rd Skill/Perk, then you lose: Skill 1: 10%; Skill 2: 10% & Skill 3: 10% right off the top.  This is why you wait until you hit at least 40%, because with a Credits reset, your 3rd Skill/Perk will be "stripped" of 30% of it's total value in order to make that 10% loss per Skill.  Your first two Skills/Perks will then be at 100% and the 3rd will be reset at 10% (40% - 30% = 10% )

 

Again, you can choose to set these to any order you wish, though if you reset, taking BIA as your 1st Skill/Perk is a smart move, not because the order matters, but just to be sure you place it on ALL your crew by picking it first and not forget to do so.  *(ALL Crew must have BIA at 100% BEFORE it provides any benefit -- it's a Group Perk and each Crew Member has to have it at 100% for it to 'work' )

 

It does not really matter which order you train up Skills or Perks, but it does matter what you are training up as a Skill accrues as it goes and a Perk does nothing until it reaches 100%.

 

See?  It's Yes and No.

 

Once a Skill or Perk is at 100% it provides it's benefit at full value (or works at all) and, as such, the order in which it is done doesn't really matter for any following Skills and Perks.  BIA is probably the only notable exception to this concept. BIA DOES provide an additional 'speedup' to the following acquisition of Skills and Perks (because it provides that bonus to the Crew as they continue to improve), though the advantage is marginal once you get past the 2nd full Skill or Perk as a method of 'reducing' your grind.  (BIA provides an overall 2.4% or so difference in your Crew/Tank advantage).

 

 

The order in which they are PLACED in your acquisition 'ladder,' however makes no overall difference in what comes later or how it affects your Crew.

 

 

OvO



MiddleAgedNoob #5 Posted Feb 11 2019 - 17:25

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View PostTrevorsT112, on Feb 11 2019 - 10:26, said:

Does the calculated benefit from accumulated skills/perks change depending on the order that they are trained? In other words, is the beneficial effect that the BIA perk has on other skills/perks calculated differently depending on when it was trained?  

 

Eg. Commander    BIA, Sixth Sense, Recon, Concealment  or

                               Sixth Sense, Recon, Concealment, BIA

 

No, order does not matter, but you should also note that BIA only contributes to the training level in a crew member's major qualification and the three common skills:  concealment, repairs and firefighting.  So it will improve your view range (because that depends on the Commander's major qualification), your reload time (Loader), your aim time (Gunner), and your camo rating (common skill) but not to things like Snap Shot, Situational Awareness and so on.  With respect to the common skills - concealment, repairs and firefighting - BIA contributes them if you have them, that is, you still need to have more than zero in the skill for BIA to help.  

 

http://wiki.wargamin...kills_and_Perks

 

GLHF

 

 

 



ricko7 #6 Posted Feb 11 2019 - 18:53

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View PostRHeadshot, on Feb 11 2019 - 15:35, said:

My understanding is that it will not matter once you get there, but frankly I'm not sure I'd trust WG to actually know.  Obviously, some of the skills don't kick in until you've trained them to 100%, and since it takes longer to get to your 4th skill than your 1st there could be some effect before you get to 100%.  Using the 2nd of your scenarios, BIA not only requires training to 100%, it requires training EVERY crew member to 100% before it becomes effective.  That's a long time when it's your 4th skill, and you're getting no benefit from it during training.  IN the first example, BIA was done early so you have that benefit, the concealment (I believe) starts improving your skills once you start training, and it does not require every crew member to be trained on it to come into effect.

 

Dont call perks skills.Perks need to be 100% before working and skills dont.Use the wiki for more accurate explanations..These forum people can help but also confuse.

RHeadshot #7 Posted Feb 11 2019 - 20:28

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View Postricko7, on Feb 11 2019 - 18:53, said:

 

Dont call perks skills.Perks need to be 100% before working and skills dont.Use the wiki for more accurate explanations..These forum people can help but also confuse.

 

Not sure how what I said is confusing, given that WG does absolutely NOTHING to distinguish between the two when you look at the personnel file.  Frankly, it's just meaningless drivel calling them different things.  You don't see perks listed separately from skills.

dunniteowl #8 Posted Feb 11 2019 - 20:33

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View PostRHeadshot, on Feb 11 2019 - 13:28, said:

 

Not sure how what I said is confusing, given that WG does absolutely NOTHING to distinguish between the two when you look at the personnel file.  Frankly, it's just meaningless drivel calling them different things.  You don't see perks listed separately from skills.

 

No you don't but YOU DO SEE them listed as Perks and NOT Skills.  They also inform you that a Perk must be at 100% for it to be effective.

 

 

You can find that here and it's NOT confusing -- just not available in game:

 

Crew -- Global Wiki

 

 

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diego999 #9 Posted Feb 11 2019 - 20:53

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View PostRHeadshot, on Feb 11 2019 - 16:28, said:

 

Not sure how what I said is confusing, given that WG does absolutely NOTHING to distinguish between the two when you look at the personnel file.  Frankly, it's just meaningless drivel calling them different things.  You don't see perks listed separately from skills.

 

Wrong. The in-game description clearly tells you if it's a perk or a skill and explains the difference.

Nunya_000 #10 Posted Feb 11 2019 - 21:13

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View PostTrevorsT112, on Feb 11 2019 - 07:26, said:

Does the calculated benefit from accumulated skills/perks change depending on the order that they are trained? In other words, is the beneficial effect that the BIA perk has on other skills/perks calculated differently depending on when it was trained?  

 

Eg. Commander    BIA, Sixth Sense, Recon, Concealment  or

                               Sixth Sense, Recon, Concealment, BIA

 

No, it does not make any difference.  The benefit received from a perk/skill is the same, no matter in which order they are trained.

 

However, if you can afford it (using gold), or don't mind doing some extra grinding to recoup lost XP (using credits), I would recommend not grinding on any perk.  Use the "Drop Skill" feature in the game once you have progress to 100% (or more if using Credits) on skills and reselect to the perk you want.

 

Example: I normally select camo (or sometimes dome other useful skill) for my commander's first skill/perk. Once I have reached 100% on my caqmo skill, I will "Drop Skill" and change it to 6th sense.

 

Example 2: I will not select BIA to train towards.  I will instead train on Skills (camo, smooth ride, snap shot, etc)   Once ALL crew members are at least 100% on their 2nd skill/perk, I will "Drop Skill" on all crew members and select BIA for each crew member.  I wait until I am at 100% to insure I have enough XP so that my Commander can have BIA and 6th Sense.

 

Personally, I would not recommend dropping skills once you are progressing towards the 3rd Skill/Perk, unless you are using gold.  The XP lost is very significant when using credits...at least in my opinion.

 

 



RHeadshot #11 Posted Feb 11 2019 - 21:43

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View Postdunniteowl, on Feb 11 2019 - 20:33, said:

 

No you don't but YOU DO SEE them listed as Perks and NOT Skills.  They also inform you that a Perk must be at 100% for it to be effective.

 

 

You can find that here and it's NOT confusing -- just not available in game:

 

Crew -- Global Wiki

 

 

OvO

 

But that's where it matters.  I certainly see the difference that you're pointing out, it's just in the game there is no distinguishing between the two - the player has to read the description or know what the skill/perk is.

RHeadshot #12 Posted Feb 11 2019 - 21:46

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View Postdiego999, on Feb 11 2019 - 20:53, said:

 

Wrong. The in-game description clearly tells you if it's a perk or a skill and explains the difference.

 

And none of that matters.  They're all listed together with no obvious difference.  One doesn't take longer than the other to get to 100%.  Doesn't matter that they call one a skill and one a perk, the player still needs to read the description because it's all just arbitrary designations by WG.

Nunya_000 #13 Posted Feb 11 2019 - 21:50

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View PostRHeadshot, on Feb 11 2019 - 12:46, said:

 

And none of that matters.  They're all listed together with no obvious difference.  One doesn't take longer than the other to get to 100%.  Doesn't matter that they call one a skill and one a perk, the player still needs to read the description because it's all just arbitrary designations by WG.

 

I would think that a player that does not know the difference between a perk and a skill would need to read the description anyway......not that it is very hard to do so.  Hovering over the perk/skill very clearly shows whether it is a perk or a skill and what the skill/perk does.

dunniteowl #14 Posted Feb 12 2019 - 01:06

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View PostRHeadshot, on Feb 11 2019 - 14:43, said:

 

But that's where it matters.  I certainly see the difference that you're pointing out, it's just in the game there is no distinguishing between the two - the player has to read the description or know what the skill/perk is.

 

Yes, there is and yes, it does.  Allow me to illustrate:  You go to ANY Crew Member and select their Personal File.

Click on the Tab: Skills.  It looks like this:

 

Posted Image

 

Now, when you hover over ANY Skill or Perk, you get a Window that looks like this:

 

Skill:

Posted Image

 

Perk:

Posted Image

 

It's all right there in your game client.  It is easy to understand.  it is NOT confusing.  It doesn't give you the ENTIRE Crew Explanation of how they build and accrue over time, but the basics of how they operate (and they AIN'T complicated) are right there, explained in simple terms and language to the reading person.

 

See what I mean?

 

 

GL, HF & HSYBF!

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TrevorsT112 #15 Posted Feb 12 2019 - 03:56

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Thanks everyone for your responses, really appreciate it. I maybe should have simplified my question by using Just two Skills/Perks such as BIA, Concealment, as opposed to Concealment, BIA. I really wanted to know if both scenarios would yield the same benefit to the crew assuming both are trained to 100% on all crew members in each scenario. Thank you all for the well thought out explanations.

RHeadshot #16 Posted Feb 12 2019 - 04:11

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View PostNunya_000, on Feb 11 2019 - 21:50, said:

 

I would think that a player that does not know the difference between a perk and a skill would need to read the description anyway......not that it is very hard to do so.  Hovering over the perk/skill very clearly shows whether it is a perk or a skill and what the skill/perk does.

 

That's my point.  That they call one a perk and one a skill is meaningless.

RHeadshot #17 Posted Feb 12 2019 - 04:18

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View Postdunniteowl, on Feb 12 2019 - 01:06, said:

 

Yes, there is and yes, it does.  Allow me to illustrate:  You go to ANY Crew Member and select their Personal File.

Click on the Tab: Skills.  It looks like this:

 

Posted Image

 

Now, when you hover over ANY Skill or Perk, you get a Window that looks like this:

 

Skill:

Posted Image

 

Perk:

Posted Image

 

It's all right there in your game client.  It is easy to understand.  it is NOT confusing.  It doesn't give you the ENTIRE Crew Explanation of how they build and accrue over time, but the basics of how they operate (and they AIN'T complicated) are right there, explained in simple terms and language to the reading person.

 

See what I mean?

 

 

GL, HF & HSYBF!

OvO

 

Look at your radio operator specific choices.  They are a mix of skill and perks and they are not listed separately.  The only thing that matters is that some don't become effective until they reach 100%.  What they call them is irrelevant.  The player certainly should pay attention to when that training becomes effective.

dunniteowl #18 Posted Feb 12 2019 - 05:51

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Dude, you're just being dense.  It clearly TELLS YOU in the description if it's a Skill or a Perk.  If you simply grab one without reading the description, then, quite honestly, you are a fool who deserves to reap the benefits of being one.

 

If you cannot take the time to figure out what the Skill or Perk IS and WHAT IT DOES, then you are guilty of being a fool.  There is no excuse for NOT READING if you are over the age of 10 (and, FYI, the EULA requires you to be at least 13 years old and if, under 17, you require a parental consent in the US to even open an account) -- and, as far as that goes, even if you are 10 you should want to KNOW what you are going to do by reading what POPS UP when you hover over it.

 

If you won't read the description or won't take the time to do it, then you deserve to get what you get out of the situation.  It's been easily shown to you that you DO get to know whether it's a Perk or a Skill and there is no requirement for them to be slotted up front as such as they are in the description and that description tells you whether or not it's a skill or a perk.

 

Any further rationalizing or argument in this matter would be you refusing to admit that you are not willing to take the time to learn or be educated when you make a statement that is incorrect.

 

 

GL, HF & HSYBF!

OvO



Nunya_000 #19 Posted Feb 12 2019 - 05:51

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View PostRHeadshot, on Feb 11 2019 - 19:11, said:

 

That's my point.  That they call one a perk and one a skill is meaningless.

 

I'm not following.  The certainly have meaning. 

 

Skills and Perks are 2 different types of the same thing....crew abilities.  One type works as soon as you research it and improves as the Skill itself improves, and the other type only works at 100%.  



choSenfroZen_1 #20 Posted Feb 12 2019 - 07:19

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In a few select cases, or one I can think of.

Mentor, will become more effective with each crew members BIA. So, mentor needs to earned before BIA .

 

Same can really be said about the rest.

You see lots of advice on getting the BIA 1st. 

If they are first, what are they supposed to improve?






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