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Too many unbalanced games are killing interest in WOT


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IcyTate #1 Posted Feb 21 2019 - 04:03

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Do this experiment. Take 1 month off of WOT and play other multi-person games. After a month, return to WOT. I recently did this and the biggest flaw in this game becomes totally clear and obvious. Way too many games are totally one-sided. Most of the time this is the result of having too wide of a range of tiers in one match. I realize that WOT does this in order to create games when there are less and less players -- they don't have enough people to create games for so many different tiers. I don't have a good answer to the problem but I now know why I quit before. The level of frustration is way higher than any other game. Too may maps end up putting heavies against each other in a narrow corridor. There is no real flanking available. Arties provide the only distraction from the endless rocking back and forth. If tiers are equal then at least the best rocker wins. But my tier 8 heavy will never pen that tier X. If the my team's tier Xs go the wrong way - the game is done in an instant. So the whole thing becomes a waste of time -- just waiting for the inevitable. Seriously -- play other games -- you will see that this poor match-making just makes this game unenjoyable.

KaiserWilhelmShatner #2 Posted Feb 21 2019 - 04:26

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Years ago steam rolls were the exception.  Now they are the rule.

LostThatLovinFeeling #3 Posted Feb 21 2019 - 04:33

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Now, the MM of +2 does not help tier 8s or 6s and as you are getting into the higher tiers that jump in play style creates a disparity. I do not think +2 MM is a huge issue even tho +1 would be nice for t8s and t6s. I play mostly 10s and the largest issue is the skill disparity also, a perceived notion that X tank has to play here or there, instead looking at the enemies comp and playing, where you could have the most impact. Then comes the whole arty is to prevent camping but in practice its creates it. Which hurts the overall enjoyment and creates the stagnant/campy mentality, we have in this current meta. Overall its not just +2 MM its much much more that +2 just magnifies. 

Edited by LostThatLovinFeeling, Feb 21 2019 - 04:46.


VooDooKobra #4 Posted Feb 21 2019 - 04:34

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View PostIcyTate, on Feb 20 2019 - 20:03, said:

Do this experiment. Take 1 month off of WOT and play other multi-person games. After a month, return to WOT. I recently did this and the biggest flaw in this game becomes totally clear and obvious. Way too many games are totally one-sided. Most of the time this is the result of having too wide of a range of tiers in one match. I realize that WOT does this in order to create games when there are less and less players -- they don't have enough people to create games for so many different tiers. I don't have a good answer to the problem but I now know why I quit before. The level of frustration is way higher than any other game. Too may maps end up putting heavies against each other in a narrow corridor. There is no real flanking available. Arties provide the only distraction from the endless rocking back and forth. If tiers are equal then at least the best rocker wins. But my tier 8 heavy will never pen that tier X. If the my team's tier Xs go the wrong way - the game is done in an instant. So the whole thing becomes a waste of time -- just waiting for the inevitable. Seriously -- play other games -- you will see that this poor match-making just makes this game unenjoyable.

 

Pubbie games will probably never be what you want, you want even tier and i dont see that happening without some huge gift to those who own pref MM tanks.  going to strictly even tier would be seen as removing something that was paid for and thus a nerf and a violation of consumer laws.  if you remember people list their minds when WG considered the idea of removing pref MM from tanks and tightening up MM though easier it would be to play would be a backhanded way to do just that.  of course you could only play frontlines when it is up

 

View PostKaiserWilhelmShatner, on Feb 20 2019 - 20:26, said:

Years ago steam rolls were the exception.  Now they are the rule.

 

how many years ago?  the only close games were low tier and badly played ones where guys didnt know enough to take advantage of the other teams mistakes


Edited by VooDooKobra, Feb 21 2019 - 04:35.


4WeeKs #5 Posted Feb 21 2019 - 04:44

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View PostIcyTate, on Feb 20 2019 - 22:03, said:

Do this experiment. Take 1 month off of WOT and play other multi-person games. After a month, return to WOT. I recently did this and the biggest flaw in this game becomes totally clear and obvious. Way too many games are totally one-sided. Most of the time this is the result of having too wide of a range of tiers in one match. I realize that WOT does this in order to create games when there are less and less players -- they don't have enough people to create games for so many different tiers. I don't have a good answer to the problem but I now know why I quit before. The level of frustration is way higher than any other game. Too may maps end up putting heavies against each other in a narrow corridor. There is no real flanking available. Arties provide the only distraction from the endless rocking back and forth. If tiers are equal then at least the best rocker wins. But my tier 8 heavy will never pen that tier X. If the my team's tier Xs go the wrong way - the game is done in an instant. So the whole thing becomes a waste of time -- just waiting for the inevitable. Seriously -- play other games -- you will see that this poor match-making just makes this game unenjoyable.

 

Yeah and I just lost 9 battles back to back SMH! All in the row. But in all within 3 hours of playing 13 Ls/4 Ws. 

Insanefriend #6 Posted Feb 21 2019 - 04:55

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I don't see as many steam rolls as the op suggests, maybe one in five matches.  But from my years of playing online games that is about normal.  Back in the days of half life mods it was quite common for one team to basically steam roll the the other team back to spawn camps.   I tended to switch sides at that point as I wanted a challenge rather then a no fun one sided battle.  

 

But as you get better at wot you find your self in more close battles as you live longer and do more damage to the other team.  Some times all it take is to be the right scary tank in the right spot to stop the push.



WileyCat #7 Posted Feb 21 2019 - 05:04

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View PostLostThatLovinFeeling, on Feb 20 2019 - 21:33, said:

Now, the MM of +2 does not help tier 8s or 6s and as you are getting into the higher tiers that jump in play style creates a disparity. I do not think +2 MM is a huge issue even tho +1 would be nice for t8s and t6s. I play mostly 10s and the largest issue is the skill disparity also, a perceived notion that X tank has to play here or there, instead looking at the enemies comp and playing, where you could have the most impact. Then comes the whole arty is to prevent camping but in practice its creates it. Which hurts the overall enjoyment and creates the stagnant/campy mentality, we have in this current meta. Overall its not just +2 MM its much much more that +2 just magnifies. 

 

i want +1-1 first before they deal with arty but it wont help the straight bots that play like in frontline

 



Smooky_Le_chien_husky #8 Posted Feb 21 2019 - 05:28

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 i not play . i wanted today but by how i get 7 day ban suspende not playing like month and day . anyway many get baned . yu play with new player or same people are back ther to restart for lose his account

moon111 #9 Posted Feb 21 2019 - 05:55

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The tanks in the game are grossly unbalanced.  The same player can go from 65% in one tank line to 45% in another.  

If you ever wanted to teach an American how they come across to others, just have them play WOT and experience

Russian Bias.  "We act like that?   Really?"   Seriously, there are tanks in the game that were designed with one huge

strong point that if they're not Russian, will either have that tank up a higher tier then it would if it were Russian, and/or

cripple it with hidden stats.



Garandster #10 Posted Feb 21 2019 - 06:09

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Why does no one ever complain when they have a win streak, or that their win rate is too high, or that they are rolling the enemy team?

Edited by Garandster, Feb 21 2019 - 06:15.


NomaeTheJester #11 Posted Feb 21 2019 - 06:47

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WOT and Insurgency are the two competitive multiplayer games I have played the most. They are both frustrating, and steamrolls happen in both. I think that is the nature of randomly assembled teams, as WOT and Insurgency play about as differently as possible without entering the realm of RTS, the only commonality being the random teams. Map design may partially alleviate this issue, by making terrain more defensible as you approach the enemy cap (the losing team can fall back for better terrain). Only problem is that this massively promotes camping, something that I think WGs recent maps have reduced, for the most part. 

 

Alternatively you could ditch the random teams and balance the teams based on PR or something. I am against this personally. This puts the pressure on me to play up to my rating every game or be the reason my team falls. Additionally, this means that my reward for being skilled is to play harder opponents, or be saddled with dumber teammates. Fun if I am looking for a challenge, stressful if I am just trying to play. I like it now with the mixed bag. 

 

If I had to choose a way to reduce steamrolls it wouldn't be a change to MM. I would increase everyone's health and ammo capacity. Maybe this is a dumb idea but I would at least like to see what effect it has on the game.



Code4 #12 Posted Feb 21 2019 - 07:58

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WoT: 1.0.1

You can't win all the time. 

No one is ever happy with the MM.

The End



Slatherer #13 Posted Feb 21 2019 - 08:27

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View PostGarandster, on Feb 20 2019 - 21:09, said:

Why does no one ever complain when they have a win streak, or that their win rate is too high, or that they are rolling the enemy team?

 

Because after all the loses, its restitution.  No one ever complains about restitution.



Firemoth #14 Posted Feb 21 2019 - 09:46

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go watch FAME VS MAHOU. top tier clans with top tier players. still one sided



SquishySupreme #15 Posted Feb 21 2019 - 09:52

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The issue is three factors:
1 - View range is not factored into the MM.
2 - Penetration is not factored into the MM.
What happens is that the side who can see farther and penetrate better usually wins outright.  The OP premium tanks make this even worse, which is why it's noticeable now versus years ago.
3 - Mods.  The number of people who can somehow see though walls, know when you are aiming at them, and other suspicious but technically not banned behavior is incredibly high.

So one side pounds the other quite hard - you can almost see it before the match starts - not by any player ranks or anything else, but WHAT tanks.  Last night, I was on a team and there was my TD, an UDES, and a Strv - 3 Swedish TDs on one team.  We rolfstomped the other side as expected due to the high pen and laser like guns on them.  Versus mostly standard T6s and T7s, it was a slaughter.  We saw farther, shot quicker, and laughed at their armor - all while hiding so well we always got the first shot or two.

 The MM needs to take take type, range, and pen into the calculation.

Copacetic #16 Posted Feb 21 2019 - 19:16

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It's a single death game duh. Play frontlines instead.

diego999 #17 Posted Feb 21 2019 - 22:04

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"WoT battles are unbalanced because --insert personal grudge here--" everyday since 2011.

 

Funny thing, it's always worse than before. All battles should be 15-0 by now.

 

 



AZandEL #18 Posted Feb 22 2019 - 04:46

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View PostIcyTate, on Feb 21 2019 - 03:03, said:

Do this experiment. Take 1 month off of WOT and play other multi-person games. After a month, return to WOT. I recently did this and the biggest flaw in this game becomes totally clear and obvious. Way too many games are totally one-sided. Most of the time this is the result of having too wide of a range of tiers in one match. I realize that WOT does this in order to create games when there are less and less players -- they don't have enough people to create games for so many different tiers. I don't have a good answer to the problem but I now know why I quit before. The level of frustration is way higher than any other game. Too may maps end up putting heavies against each other in a narrow corridor. There is no real flanking available. Arties provide the only distraction from the endless rocking back and forth. If tiers are equal then at least the best rocker wins. But my tier 8 heavy will never pen that tier X. If the my team's tier Xs go the wrong way - the game is done in an instant. So the whole thing becomes a waste of time -- just waiting for the inevitable. Seriously -- play other games -- you will see that this poor match-making just makes this game unenjoyable.

 

IMO the 600x600 maps that are utterly obsolete in 2019 are major contributor. Frankly even the "big" 1000x1000 maps are marginal. When you play the other games its amazing how much more fun it is to have enough room for different tanks to actually play their roles. TDs arent forced into alley fights, heavies arent stuck on open fields, lights can actually spot/pester/flee, meds can flank, gun ranges and view ranges matter. But surely we dont know anything.

Tedsc #19 Posted Feb 22 2019 - 18:57

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View PostVooDooKobra, on Feb 21 2019 - 04:34, said:

 

Pubbie games will probably never be what you want, you want even tier and i dont see that happening without some huge gift to those who own pref MM tanks.  going to strictly even tier would be seen as removing something that was paid for and thus a nerf and a violation of consumer laws.  if you remember people list their minds when WG considered the idea of removing pref MM from tanks and tightening up MM though easier it would be to play would be a backhanded way to do just that.  of course you could only play frontlines when it is up

 

 

how many years ago?  the only close games were low tier and badly played ones where guys didnt know enough to take advantage of the other teams mistakes

 

If we had single tier or +- 1 tier MM, I would be all over it as someone whol plays PMM tanks a lot...  I play them because I HATE 3 tier matches and while PMM tanks are not great at +1 battles they are far better than most tanks at +2 and +2 is what you see the majority of the time.

ethics_gradient #20 Posted Feb 22 2019 - 19:04

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I started playing when MM was +-3 tiers, and light tanks were +-4 tiers.  Imagine trying to pen a Tiger II tank with a Stug III, and you get an idea of what real frustration was.  So in that sense, MM is better than it was back then.  The exception is the new prevalence of the 3-5-7 template, which screws Tiers 8, 6, and 5.  If they would have more 5-10 or 15-15 battles, I think MM would be better.

 

For me, the problem is the declining skill level of the player base where I'm seeing more and more orange players and deep red players.  In the past, I would rarely see a player with a double digit WN8.  Now I'm seeing them once or twice every night.  It's really hard to carry a team when players seem to race to die within the first minute and your team is down 0-3 in 60 seconds.  I expect to see a bell curve in skill, with most players being yellow (including myself).  I think that WoT's pushing of Tier VIII premium tanks to generate revenue is part of the problem.  Too many new players jump right into Tier VIII before they understand the basics of the game.

 

Another problem is with power creep, the cost of a mistake has gone up exponentially.  Remember when the BL-10 was the god of all guns.  It's a pea shooter now.  So imagine the orange or red player who makes a mistake and then gets one-shot by an FV4005.  His team is now down a  tank.


Edited by ethics_gradient, Feb 22 2019 - 19:06.





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