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[ST] Emil I, Emil II, Kranvagn Rebalance


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mlinke #21 Posted Mar 02 2019 - 23:29

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Please buff sweed premium medium too. Gun is ok but speed is terrible. It has no armor and it it huge target. Needs speed and turn buffed so it can be playable.

pickpocket293 #22 Posted Mar 03 2019 - 09:38

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View PostAvalon304, on Mar 02 2019 - 14:59, said:

 

I think I can count on 1 hand the number of tiems Ive needed to load HEAT in my Emil II, which is the same gun as the Kranvagn. I generally fins that if Im going face to face with a Type 5 or Maus in tanks like this Ive made a mistake somewhere. I always try to get side shots or rear shots. Not every heavy tank sould be face checking super heavies.

 

 

This is why I call you bad at the game pickpocket. Because you say stuff like this. The T57 isnt crap unless you spam HEAT. Far from it, because in a T57 you should be close enough that its gun handling doesnt really matter and you shouldnt be face to face with tanks you cant reliably pen.

 

 

K, I guess I'm bad then, because having a different opinion than you means I must be a baddie. 

 

 

https://www.merriam-...dictionary/tact

 

 

Also, you are wrong. The T57 standard pen is crap in 2019 world of tanks, combined with the accuracy that it has, because not always will you be able to "lol just flank it".

 

 

The type 5 front is at best a 50/50 with standard ammo, or an 80/20 with premium. RNG is not on your side, so I choose to use the tools at my disposal to mitigate as much RNG as possible. Call me what you will, but I think you're naive.



Avalon304 #23 Posted Mar 03 2019 - 10:24

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View Postpickpocket293, on Mar 03 2019 - 01:38, said:

 

 

K, I guess I'm bad then, because having a different opinion than you means I must be a baddie. 

 

 

https://www.merriam-...dictionary/tact

 

 

Also, you are wrong. The T57 standard pen is crap in 2019 world of tanks, combined with the accuracy that it has, because not always will you be able to "lol just flank it".

 

 

The type 5 front is at best a 50/50 with standard ammo, or an 80/20 with premium. RNG is not on your side, so I choose to use the tools at my disposal to mitigate as much RNG as possible. Call me what you will, but I think you're naive.

 

No pickpocket having a different opinion is not what makes you bad. Spouting factually incorrect information is what makes you bad.

 

If youre face checking a Type 5 with a T57 you made a mistake. Period. I dont care that you personally spam HEAT, you wanna do that more power to you, but to say its required or the tank is otherwise crap is just incorrect information. 258 penetration in 2019 is just fine for tier 10 tanks, provided you have even half a brain.



RC_1140 #24 Posted Mar 03 2019 - 10:29

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View PostAvalon304, on Mar 02 2019 - 12:59, said:

 

I think I can count on 1 hand the number of tiems Ive needed to load HEAT in my Emil II, which is the same gun as the Kranvagn. I generally fins that if Im going face to face with a Type 5 or Maus in tanks like this Ive made a mistake somewhere. I always try to get side shots or rear shots. Not every heavy tank sould be face checking super heavies.

 

 

This is why I call you bad at the game pickpocket. Because you say stuff like this. The T57 isnt crap unless you spam HEAT. Far from it, because in a T57 you should be close enough that its gun handling doesnt really matter and you shouldnt be face to face with tanks you cant reliably pen.

I find it interesting that you are the only person I have heard of that thinks the Kran has a good gun and doesn't need buffed. Compared to the 50b and t57 the only things that are better is the gun depression and turret armor, everything else is worse. Bringing some of the stats up that are really low compared to those 2 (or all t10's, only lights have worse pen) can only be good right? A buff to speed would be almost as good as a buff to pen. 

 

Either that or nerf all other t10's down to 310-290 prem pen, maybe as much as 330 for tds. They really need a global pen and armor rebalance for all tiers but there is a very low chance of that since they want to lower damage of prem rounds instead of pen. 

 

Also I don't think I mentioned the Emil 1 or 2, they have pen that is just fine for their tiers (maybe emil 1 could use 10mm or so). I don't expect t8's or 9's to deal with t10's as well as t10's do, so if they struggle a bit vs higher tier tanks that is fine with me. 



Avalon304 #25 Posted Mar 03 2019 - 13:15

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View PostRC_1140, on Mar 03 2019 - 02:29, said:

I find it interesting that you are the only person I have heard of that thinks the Kran has a good gun and doesn't need buffed. Compared to the 50b and t57 the only things that are better is the gun depression and turret armor, everything else is worse. Bringing some of the stats up that are really low compared to those 2 (or all t10's, only lights have worse pen) can only be good right? A buff to speed would be almost as good as a buff to pen. 

 

Either that or nerf all other t10's down to 310-290 prem pen, maybe as much as 330 for tds. They really need a global pen and armor rebalance for all tiers but there is a very low chance of that since they want to lower damage of prem rounds instead of pen. 

 

Also I don't think I mentioned the Emil 1 or 2, they have pen that is just fine for their tiers (maybe emil 1 could use 10mm or so). I don't expect t8's or 9's to deal with t10's as well as t10's do, so if they struggle a bit vs higher tier tanks that is fine with me. 

 

https://tanks.gg/com...-heavy~amx-50-b

 

I mean if youre gonna make statements atleast make them correct. Compared to the AMX and T57 the Kranvagn's gun handling is in between them, being only marginally worse than the 50B and having better soft dispersion values (all around just better) and better aim time compared to the T57, with an insignificantly worse base dispersion of 0.35 compared to the T-57's 0.34. The Kranvagn is also faster than the T57 in addition to having that good gun depression and turret armor.

 

What makes the guns of the Swedish heavies feel bad is their long intraclip reloads (3.33 seconds at tier 9 and 3 seconds at tier 8 and 10), which feels particularly punishing when you miss a shot. (That being said the Emil II does actually have atrocious gun handling being on par with the T57). But the Kranvagn's gun is better handling than the T57 over all and handles almost as well as the AMX 50Bs gun, being only marginally worse in movement and track traverse dispersion (as well as base dispersion by 0.01). The reductions in intraclip that these tanks are receiving alone will do wonders for making them feel better when you are shooting, and the increases in DPM from the reduced drum reloads will only make things better by further reducing the negtive aspect of missing a shot (as you just be back into the fight quicker with 3 more shells). I could see the Kranvagn with these buffs replacing a T57 in a lot of situations in the meta because of its DPM and the faster than a T57's burst.

 

Like lots of people perpetuate that the Krans gun is bad, but it really isnt, not for an autoloading gun, much less a tier 10 heavy tank's gun.

 

As for global looks at premium rounds, honestly either choice is ok. I dont much find premium ammo to be an overall issue like most people do. If WG wants to reduce the pen of all of it fine. If they want to reduce the damage fine. I dont often fire it (mainly I leave it to game winning situations or clan wars).  Do I think the need to readdress armor? Yep. It needs to go back to how it was, because there was no issue before. I think, perhaps when the premium round rebalance comes, regardless of what WG's ultimate choice is (nerfing damage or pen) we're going to see armor readdressed on certain tanks that need their armor addressed (Maus, Type 4 and Type 5, 430U and 268v4 off the top of my head).

 

I also think were seeing the first steps of a global change to all tier 9 and 10 120mm guns with these Swedish changes as well, where all of them will get 440 alpha, and Im ok with that as a thing too.

 

But to answer your question: No, bringing up low stats to stats that are, potentially, too strong is not a good idea. Its not a good thing to do. Its literally called power creep... and its not a good thing.



RC_1140 #26 Posted Mar 03 2019 - 20:38

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View PostAvalon304, on Mar 03 2019 - 04:15, said:

 

https://tanks.gg/com...-heavy~amx-50-b

 

I mean if youre gonna make statements atleast make them correct. Compared to the AMX and T57 the Kranvagn's gun handling is in between them, being only marginally worse than the 50B and having better soft dispersion values (all around just better) and better aim time compared to the T57, with an insignificantly worse base dispersion of 0.35 compared to the T-57's 0.34. The Kranvagn is also faster than the T57 in addition to having that good gun depression and turret armor.

 

What makes the guns of the Swedish heavies feel bad is their long intraclip reloads (3.33 seconds at tier 9 and 3 seconds at tier 8 and 10), which feels particularly punishing when you miss a shot. (That being said the Emil II does actually have atrocious gun handling being on par with the T57). But the Kranvagn's gun is better handling than the T57 over all and handles almost as well as the AMX 50Bs gun, being only marginally worse in movement and track traverse dispersion (as well as base dispersion by 0.01). The reductions in intraclip that these tanks are receiving alone will do wonders for making them feel better when you are shooting, and the increases in DPM from the reduced drum reloads will only make things better by further reducing the negtive aspect of missing a shot (as you just be back into the fight quicker with 3 more shells). I could see the Kranvagn with these buffs replacing a T57 in a lot of situations in the meta because of its DPM and the faster than a T57's burst.

 

Like lots of people perpetuate that the Krans gun is bad, but it really isnt, not for an autoloading gun, much less a tier 10 heavy tank's gun.

 

As for global looks at premium rounds, honestly either choice is ok. I dont much find premium ammo to be an overall issue like most people do. If WG wants to reduce the pen of all of it fine. If they want to reduce the damage fine. I dont often fire it (mainly I leave it to game winning situations or clan wars).  Do I think the need to readdress armor? Yep. It needs to go back to how it was, because there was no issue before. I think, perhaps when the premium round rebalance comes, regardless of what WG's ultimate choice is (nerfing damage or pen) we're going to see armor readdressed on certain tanks that need their armor addressed (Maus, Type 4 and Type 5, 430U and 268v4 off the top of my head).

 

I also think were seeing the first steps of a global change to all tier 9 and 10 120mm guns with these Swedish changes as well, where all of them will get 440 alpha, and Im ok with that as a thing too.

 

But to answer your question: No, bringing up low stats to stats that are, potentially, too strong is not a good idea. Its not a good thing to do. Its literally called power creep... and its not a good thing.

 

I think you misunderstand what I meant, Kran is only best in class for gun depression and turret armor. Sure its better at some more stuff than say the t57, but 50b is even better in those catagories. And while the depression is nice, most people don't shoot the turret non stop like when it was new. So its basically a bad 50b with 2 more gun depression. I will also gladly expose myself for .5 seconds longer to do 280 more damage with better dpm and pen. 

 

Doing something to make it better would be nice, if not pen change it to one of the other versions. Give it the US 810 hp engine and buff terrain resistance, or give it better hull armor, or a 2 shot 150mm gun like version 2 or 3. If it does 650 damage like some of the new 150mm guns it would have 1300 clip damage, close to the 1320 from 3 440 damage shots. All those changes would be "historical", based off the project.  Just a buff to dpm (still worse than t57) is boring and probably not enough. 



Avalon304 #27 Posted Mar 03 2019 - 21:59

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View PostRC_1140, on Mar 03 2019 - 12:38, said:

 

I think you misunderstand what I meant, Kran is only best in class for gun depression and turret armor. Sure its better at some more stuff than say the t57, but 50b is even better in those catagories. And while the depression is nice, most people don't shoot the turret non stop like when it was new. So its basically a bad 50b with 2 more gun depression. I will also gladly expose myself for .5 seconds longer to do 280 more damage with better dpm and pen. 

 

Doing something to make it better would be nice, if not pen change it to one of the other versions. Give it the US 810 hp engine and buff terrain resistance, or give it better hull armor, or a 2 shot 150mm gun like version 2 or 3. If it does 650 damage like some of the new 150mm guns it would have 1300 clip damage, close to the 1320 from 3 440 damage shots. All those changes would be "historical", based off the project.  Just a buff to dpm (still worse than t57) is boring and probably not enough. 

 

You'll gladly do that and I'll take advantage of it every time because loger exposure gives me more chance to deal damage to you. In a game where HP conservation is key (to a point anyway), being able to expose less while bursting is incredibly important. The old 13 90 was trash because it hadsuch a large clip with a bad handling gun which meant punitive exposure to effectivly use its burst. The new one is great because it can expose less and utilize its full burst. The top tier Czech medium have low exposure times making them pretty great autoloaders. The old 50 120 is still a pretty terrible tier 9 because of its lengthy exposure time of nearly 10 seconds to dump a full drum (though the buff it received to gun depression helped quite a bit). The Emil II itself is not that good simply because of its 3.33 second intra-clip.

 

If I can pop out, dump 3 shells and pull back in less time than it takes the T57 to dump 4 Im gonna take that over the T57 every day of the week. Less exposure means less time for the enemy to react, aim their shots and fire before Im already pulling back into cover. If I can do that from a hull down position, even better (something that cant be done with either of the other two at tier 10), granted hull down requires no arty (or dumb arty and no one willing to shoot HE, but its a nice tool to have in a lot of situations. The Emil II and Kran can also sidescrape a bit and not have to worry about exposing their turret shoulders unlike the T57 (though this is even more niche than the T57 it it again a nice tool to have. These changes excite me because htey make the Kran actively different from either of the other two autoloading tier 10 heavies (and their tier 8-9 ones as well) and give it more tools to do more things rather than just buffing alpha or penetration to further lead to more problems down the road.

 

TBH I dont think we need more 150mm caliber guns on heavy tanks at tier 10, I think adding more raw alpha into the game is a bad idea right now. (Doubly so for adding an autoloaidng 150, I think they removed the Foch 155 from the tech tree for a reason). The game can handle 40 alpha to all 120mms (if that even happens, as thats my pure speculation right now) but bumping this tank up to 650 (and incrase of 250 alpha) would be a mistake in the current climate aswell with even just a 2 shot autoloader.



RC_1140 #28 Posted Mar 04 2019 - 06:34

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View PostAvalon304, on Mar 03 2019 - 12:59, said:

 

You'll gladly do that and I'll take advantage of it every time because loger exposure gives me more chance to deal damage to you. In a game where HP conservation is key (to a point anyway), being able to expose less while bursting is incredibly important. The old 13 90 was trash because it hadsuch a large clip with a bad handling gun which meant punitive exposure to effectivly use its burst. The new one is great because it can expose less and utilize its full burst. The top tier Czech medium have low exposure times making them pretty great autoloaders. The old 50 120 is still a pretty terrible tier 9 because of its lengthy exposure time of nearly 10 seconds to dump a full drum (though the buff it received to gun depression helped quite a bit). The Emil II itself is not that good simply because of its 3.33 second intra-clip.

 

If I can pop out, dump 3 shells and pull back in less time than it takes the T57 to dump 4 Im gonna take that over the T57 every day of the week. Less exposure means less time for the enemy to react, aim their shots and fire before Im already pulling back into cover. If I can do that from a hull down position, even better (something that cant be done with either of the other two at tier 10), granted hull down requires no arty (or dumb arty and no one willing to shoot HE, but its a nice tool to have in a lot of situations. The Emil II and Kran can also sidescrape a bit and not have to worry about exposing their turret shoulders unlike the T57 (though this is even more niche than the T57 it it again a nice tool to have. These changes excite me because htey make the Kran actively different from either of the other two autoloading tier 10 heavies (and their tier 8-9 ones as well) and give it more tools to do more things rather than just buffing alpha or penetration to further lead to more problems down the road.

 

TBH I dont think we need more 150mm caliber guns on heavy tanks at tier 10, I think adding more raw alpha into the game is a bad idea right now. (Doubly so for adding an autoloaidng 150, I think they removed the Foch 155 from the tech tree for a reason). The game can handle 40 alpha to all 120mms (if that even happens, as thats my pure speculation right now) but bumping this tank up to 650 (and incrase of 250 alpha) would be a mistake in the current climate aswell with even just a 2 shot autoloader.

 

If I saw a Kran sidescraping I'd just shoot the upper plate, if that is hidden its overangled and I can pen the side. 

 

As for unloading faster, either the Kran unloads in 5.5 seconds and can't get to cover before 6 seconds (in which case it does 1320 and the t57 does 1600). Or the t57 shoots 3x in 4 seconds and has an entire 1.5 seconds to get safe (kran does 880 and t57 does 1200). There is no rule saying an autoloader has to fire all its shells, so t57 is more flexible with its clip while having better dpm and pen. 

 

Both before and after this change the only time I'd rather the in a kran instead of one of the other 2 is if I'm hull down, with no way to get shot in the side, all my targets right in front of me and close to mid range, in a game with no arty or superheavies. 



Sam_Sanister #29 Posted Mar 04 2019 - 09:54

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View PostAvalon304, on Mar 03 2019 - 06:15, said:

 

 

 

As for global looks at premium rounds, honestly either choice is ok. I dont much find premium ammo to be an overall issue like most people do. If WG wants to reduce the pen of all of it fine. If they want to reduce the damage fine. I dont often fire it (mainly I leave it to game winning situations or clan wars).  Do I think the need to readdress armor? Yep. It needs to go back to how it was, because there was no issue before. I think, perhaps when the premium round rebalance comes, regardless of what WG's ultimate choice is (nerfing damage or pen) we're going to see armor readdressed on certain tanks that need their armor addressed (Maus, Type 4 and Type 5, 430U and 268v4 off the top of my head).

 

But to answer your question: No, bringing up low stats to stats that are, potentially, too strong is not a good idea. Its not a good thing to do. Its literally called power creep... and its not a good thing.

 

This is why I'm skeptical of any buffs coming to the E 100; any armor buffs will only increase the amount of prem and/or HE fired at it.

And yeah, power creep is a bad thing. 
Unfortunately, that's part of WG's business model; need those flavor of the month T8+ vehicles to be powerful so people buy them.

It 'encourages' gold spam, which requires credits, which requires either a lot more playing in lower tiers, or breaking out your credit card for a premium tank (likely one with better combat capabilities than tech tree tanks)
 

It's a very dangerous idea; having tier 8 being both the tier where the grind just becomes the absolute worst, while also having it be where they sell all the premiums.
Did you know that there are more tier 8 premiums than there are tech tree tanks? (even counting copies as a single tank e.g. 252U/Defender)

At least before, the pref MM meant there was a reasonable excuse for the premiums to be inferior.
Now, average has become the new below average.

It's funny, WG has done a better job releasing balanced tier 6-7 premiums than tier 8 prems (exceptions: post-buff T-34-85M, E 25)

View PostAvalon304, on Mar 03 2019 - 14:59, said:

 

In a game where HP conservation is key (to a point anyway), being able to expose less while dealing damage is incredibly important.

 

This right here is part of why there's so much gold ammo being thrown around at tier 10.
Sure, there are tanks with (actual) weak spots, but why bother aiming for those when you might miss the tank entirely, or bounce?
 



RagnarokBazil #30 Posted Mar 04 2019 - 11:23

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View PostAvalon304, on Mar 01 2019 - 15:50, said:

 

 

Im mean thats a false statement if Ive ever read one. DPM is just as important for an autoloader as it is for any other tank in the game. The ability to have more uptime in a match is incredibly important.

 

Like the Even 90 who has the Worst DPM in the game lol

Avalon304 #31 Posted Mar 04 2019 - 23:37

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View PostRC_1140, on Mar 03 2019 - 22:34, said:

 

If I saw a Kran sidescraping I'd just shoot the upper plate, if that is hidden its overangled and I can pen the side. 

 

As for unloading faster, either the Kran unloads in 5.5 seconds and can't get to cover before 6 seconds (in which case it does 1320 and the t57 does 1600). Or the t57 shoots 3x in 4 seconds and has an entire 1.5 seconds to get safe (kran does 880 and t57 does 1200). There is no rule saying an autoloader has to fire all its shells, so t57 is more flexible with its clip while having better dpm and pen. 

 

Both before and after this change the only time I'd rather the in a kran instead of one of the other 2 is if I'm hull down, with no way to get shot in the side, all my targets right in front of me and close to mid range, in a game with no arty or superheavies. 

 

There are ways to sicescrape and hide the UFP. Ive done it with the Emil II. With the turret pointed at the guns and the UFP hidden it annoys people a lot. Its still more possible than it is with the T57 which has huge weakpoints that are exposed when even attempting it.

 

If the T57 isnt dropping its full burst its just being wasted in situations  where half seconds are becoming the determining factor. I mean... if were limiting bursts, then the Kran is doing 880 in 2.75 seconds and the Kranvagn is in cover 1.25 seconds faster than the T57 can fire its 3rd shot. And the Kran is now doing more damage in the trade and is gonna have better DPM for it. The Kran has more options with these buffs, where as before its just sort of the worse choice between either the 50B or T57.

 

View PostRagnarokBazil, on Mar 04 2019 - 03:23, said:

 

Like the Even 90 who has the Worst DPM in the game lol

 

I mean the Even 90's gun is trash for a whole host of reasons, including its poor DPM and poor burst. But the Even 90 isnt about the gun, its about the insane meme levels of camo that you can get in it.



Arch_Vile_ #32 Posted Mar 06 2019 - 14:42

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View Postpickpocket293, on Mar 01 2019 - 19:56, said:

The metric of DPM is unimportant with an autoloader-- it's all about burst damage. By reducing the burst damage capability of these tanks, you won't be doing them any favors. When I played through the Emil 2, the clip potential allowed me to solo-clip a tier 8 heavy. That won't be possible anymore.

 

 

Also, by ignoring the garbage-tier penetration and aiming stats that the tanks all have, WG is (once again) ignoring the real issues that these tanks have, and solving a problem that didn't exist.

 

you forgot about the amx 13 90, it was complete crapwith the 6 shell drum, now it has 4 and its amazing.... why do you think the lorr 40t is so much better than the amx 50 100?? yes, dpm, and other stats are still very important in an autoloader
 


flyingflappythingy #33 Posted Mar 07 2019 - 00:59

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Re balancing these tanks by adjusting their DPM is rather a sad buff. These tanks have Burst damage to cause massive amounts of damage in short burst before they fall back and come up on another opportunity however these tanks have lacking penetrations and poor power to weight ratios which forces them to engage enemies frontal were their penetration causes them to fail. The Emil 1 for re balancing the gun is not bad since the tank is all round good already. But the Emil 2 and Kranvagn desperately need either speed or armor penetration buff in order to actual deal with the common tanks that they might encounter. Dropping their burst damage for overall DPM won't change the fact that the tank will still find it hard to hit and pen equal and even lower tier tanks reliably. It also suffers from the ability to get to a position and find it hard to bail out when things go south since the tanks have poor engine power for the amount that they weight. The Kranvagn is the lightest Heavy in the game and can chased down practically every other equal light weight mobile heavies. 

 

I have played the Kranvagn 400 times over and have successfully three marked it and kept it at a 61% win rate. i love the tank to bits but the fact that it is a so slow and suffers from lower penetration compared to other equal tier tanks disappoints me.



Bronco272 #34 Posted Mar 07 2019 - 16:35

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Just strolling through the messages left by other people, I think there 4 main topics.

 

1.) DPM Increase is not the best solution, mainly because the Swedish heavies were not designed to have high DPM.  They are autoloaders for one thing, and for another, tanks should not just be made "better" by a DPM buff whenever the community thinks they are underpowered.  Sure DPM buffs can be good, but only for some tanks.

 

2 & 3.) People either want an accuracy buff or a penetration buff.  Both of these features combined make it difficult to be competitive.  I would think of it this way: Why buff the DPM of the tank if it still cannot penetrate as often as other tanks.  I personally would like to see an accuracy buff, but the people arguing for penetration buffs are not wrong.

 

4.) People really want to see the E 100 and IS-4 buffed.  I have seen people bringing this topic up more than maybe any other post.



Rommelman1 #35 Posted Mar 08 2019 - 02:39

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View PostBigDollarBillz, on Mar 01 2019 - 18:44, said:

I really wish the E100 and IS-4 would have gotten the buffs first. The E100 has been passed over for a very long time. But it is what it is.

 

The E100 gets passed over because its German and the Russians are still mad at the Germans for WWII , so German tanks that were BEASTS in WWII , like the Tiger 2 , will continue to suck against Russian garbage.

RoyalGreenPC #36 Posted Mar 11 2019 - 00:28

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View PostAvalon304, on Mar 02 2019 - 16:59, said:

I think I can count on 1 hand the number of tiems Ive needed to load HEAT in my Emil II, which is the same gun as the Kranvagn. I generally fins that if Im going face to face with a Type 5 or Maus in tanks like this Ive made a mistake somewhere. I always try to get side shots or rear shots. Not every heavy tank sould be face checking super heavies.

This is why I call you bad at the game pickpocket. Because you say stuff like this. The T57 isnt crap unless you spam HEAT. Far from it, because in a T57 you should be close enough that its gun handling doesnt really matter and you shouldnt be face to face with tanks you cant reliably pen.

All that arguments and you don't even own a Kranvagn? LOL.

Don't compare Emil II with Kran, Emil is one of the best tier 9s. Kran on the other hand.. You should try it first before telling others how wrong they are based on your assumptions.



Mercenarity #37 Posted Apr 18 2019 - 10:46

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I used to think a 3 shot clip might do this tank some good, but I don't know if it really changes its personality all that much. I suppose you can stay aggressive for longer with the shorter reload, but I think people are going to miss the burst.


Edited by Mercenarity, Apr 21 2019 - 09:11.


X_Wutank_X #38 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 03:41

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I have always loved the Kranvagn but I found that after playing it for some time now that its gun handling is terrible.


I think that changes made are a step in the right direction for the tank but it doesn't help if I am still going to be missing weak spots on a enemy tank. Improving the soft stats of the gun handling might go a long way for the tank.


Edited by X_Wutank_X, Apr 23 2019 - 03:42.


Blue___Phoenix #39 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 04:35

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Hello [nhk] Domo!

 

After playing Swedish heavies for about two years, I know what's good, bad and REALLY bad about them.

Throughout my extensive use of these heavies, I was able to collect valuable notes and data to allow me to have objective suggestions. Hence, I'd like to give you feedback on some things to fix.

 

It is good to have balanced tanks that are not overpowered. These suggestions are objective; come from hard data and years of experience from playing these tanks. I made an extensive data comparison to be able to prepare this feedback.

 

With the spirit to remain objective, I remove my personal opinion and am limiting the feedback solely on data an observation from the experience gained from playing (and still playing them) Swedish heavies.

 

==Armor==

The turret of Swedish heavies is THE factor that makes these heavies "different". With their distinctive design, the turret is the THIS in "this is what sets them apart" from ALL other tanks, and redundantly, autoloaders. Yet, the armor values are no longer viable for the current meta.

 

For example, Emil 1/Emil 1951:

  • With an armor value of just 180, the turret can be easily penned by many tier 6's, 7's & 8's tanks (like the ARL 44, M6, Panther, T29, Lowe) with AP. Not even APCR/HEAT.
  • Emil 1/1951 has to face tier X tanks. With the current armor values, of 180, its turret can be easily overmatched by almost all tier X with just AP
  • As a heavy, the turret has to be able to perform on corridor maps as well. Ridges/Hills are highly situational and depend heavily on RNG to get a good map or avoid corridor maps (even with the map-blocking option) 
  • To make matters worse, unlike Emil 2 and Kranvagn, the current 3D model for Emil 1/Emil 1951's turret bends on the sides at about a 30-degree angle; this makes it even easier to pen
  • A good example are all British mediums & heavies, tiers 8 and above. Their turret values start at 254 armor; Swedish heavies' turrets are lackluster 
  • Another good example are the Russian heavies, Most of their turrets exceed British's 254 armor by over 300 armor values

-Worry about lower tiers and good balancing?

  • British medium & heavy tanks (tiers 8 to 10) at 254-turret-armor are not breaking the game
  • MANY Russian medium & heavy tanks (tiers 8 to 10) have even higher values than 254 on their turrents AND are not breaking the game
  • Everything else (besides the turret) for Emil 1/Emil 2/Kranvagn has no armor, making it easy for lower tiers
  • Emil 1/1951 meets tier X
  • Even the Primo Victoria MEDIUM (not even a heavy) has better turret armor than ALL the Swedish heavies. Better turret armor than Emil 1/Emil 1951; Better turret armor than Emil 2; Better turret armor than Kranvagn (and the Primo is NOT a tier X); Tier X tanks should, in theory, have better armor than their predecessors and tier 8's (Primo Victoria); The Primo Victoria is NOT breaking the game

This is just Emil 1/Emil 1951 as an example. The feedback on turret armor for Emil 2 & Kranvang is similar/same

These are the reasons Swedish heavies deserve an armor buff on the turrets, and perhaps a 3D modification for Emil1/Emil 1951 as well

 

 

==Penetration==

Regular round penetration for Emil 1/1951, Emil 2 and Kranvagn are NOT enough for the current meta.

 

  • For instance, to penetrate a tier X and super heavies frontally (Mouse/Type 5, Russian heavies, etc.), the BARE minimum pen-value required is 261 penetration (Maus cheeks). Because it is the bare minimum, this means, a 50/50 chance to pen
  • Even with premium amo, Emil 1/1951 cannot penetrate some tier 8 and 9 heavy tanks. Of course, tier X's are hard to impossible to pen
  • Take another factor as an example. Even after the buffs, the reload to change between regular and premium rounds is over 20 seconds. In WoT, over 20 seconds is an eternity. The target dissapears; relocates; gets killed, or you get killed during the ammo change reload. Having to make the decision to sacrifice time, damage and targets, just to change ammunition type because the regular ammo won't deliver is something Swedish heavies have to deal CONSTANTLY. This greatly affects the potential of Swedish heavy tanks to deal damage, be relevant and maybe a decisive factor for some players to abandon this line
  • Another thing to consider is the tank type. Heavy tanks traditionally have some of the highest pen values (regular rounds), sometimes even higher than some tank destroyers. 217 and 252 penetration values are in the medium tank category.

 

 

PS. Keep it fun, keep it balanced.

True to my word, an objective feedback (based on data and experience) for Wargaming to consider.


Edited by Blue___Phoenix, Apr 25 2019 - 02:12.


StaticWednesday #40 Posted May 13 2019 - 00:55

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Just my 2 cents....

The Swedish heavies are death traps. Once you shoot you are dead.

Changing this from 4 shots to 3 shots has no effect..IMO

Anything can penetrate the armour.

The gun is not accurate for long range....

 

I do play the Swedish line...but it is not for those who look at stats ...because you will probably lose a lot of them.

IMO....something needs to be done better than the new changes.

 

PS: Yes the E100 needs a HUGE buff....everything can pen the armour...which is insane...BTW...You should see this tank on the battlefield and be afraid...but most just laugh.

 

 


Edited by StaticWednesday, May 13 2019 - 00:55.





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