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24cups #121 Posted Mar 08 2019 - 18:51

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View Postalienation, on Mar 08 2019 - 12:46, said:

The most simple solution for me would be to revert team damage back to the player who caused it. You shoot a teammate, you take the damage, not him. You ram, you lose the HP, not him. That would make everyone extra-careful! Could you imagine how much more prudent arty would be if they got destroyed due to landing a shell too close to a friendly? 

Too easy for people to brake in front of you to screw you with ram damage. 



RHeadshot #122 Posted Mar 08 2019 - 18:53

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View Postalienation, on Mar 08 2019 - 18:46, said:

The most simple solution for me would be to revert team damage back to the player who caused it. You shoot a teammate, you take the damage, not him. You ram, you lose the HP, not him. That would make everyone extra-careful! Could you imagine how much more prudent arty would be if they got destroyed due to landing a shell too close to a friendly?

 

But there are limited times where landing that arty shot actually is the smart play to make.  Not often, but it does happen.

alienation #123 Posted Mar 08 2019 - 18:55

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View Post24cups, on Mar 08 2019 - 12:51, said:

Too easy for people to brake in front of you to screw you with ram damage. 

 

Just like my drive to work! But I manage to not hit them :) Leave some following distance! Besides, rubbing and bumping doesn't cause that much DMG. I'm more concerned with getting shot in the back by some potato behind me when I peek out to take my shot. That's what my suggested approach would help reduce.

alienation #124 Posted Mar 08 2019 - 18:58

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View PostRHeadshot, on Mar 08 2019 - 12:53, said:

 

But there are limited times where landing that arty shot actually is the smart play to make.  Not often, but it does happen.

 

Disagree with you there. I play lots of arty and have never found a good reason to drop a shell so close to a friendly that it would cause damage. There are usually plenty of other targets. If not, just call the shot and wait till your friendly backs off - or dies.

JunkaTheAdmirable #125 Posted Mar 08 2019 - 19:24

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So the guy who teamkilled me the other day and bragged about getting away with it hasnt played any games since I reported the replay that night. Right on wargaming! Gonna buy a gold package tonight just for that. :justwait:

dunniteowl #126 Posted Mar 08 2019 - 20:18

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View PostAMSRocker, on Mar 08 2019 - 11:02, said:

 

Why don't we just get rid of team damage from shooting and that would end 75% if this stuff?

 

Someone pointed out something that, once I read it, was obvious about this, though I never considered it.

 

No Team Damage would provide SPGs unparalleled power, as well as creating new tactics of pinning enemy units to let your team mates pound them with impunity.  With no team damage, then the Green Team has absolutely no concern for being responsible with their shots.  This would mean someone could bring a hard to pen unit into the mix, have them block, pin or push Red Team units while the rest of the team just bangs away -- after all that facehugging tank will only get popped by Red Team Shells.

 

Of course, this would be a two-way street.  That said, just take a few moments to imagine how much MORE this would destroy the current game meta than even WVs ever could.

 

Imagine it for a moment and you'll probably be in favor of keeping Team Damage or Friendly Fire in the game.

 

 

OvO



RHeadshot #127 Posted Mar 08 2019 - 20:27

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View Postalienation, on Mar 08 2019 - 18:58, said:

 

Disagree with you there. I play lots of arty and have never found a good reason to drop a shell so close to a friendly that it would cause damage. There are usually plenty of other targets. If not, just call the shot and wait till your friendly backs off - or dies.

 

One such situation:  It's you and one teammate left against one enemy.  You're the only arty.  Your teammate and the other enemy are slugging it out, but other guy has a slight advantage.  If the other guy wins that battle, your team is going to lose because he will be able to outspot you and out run you, so your best chance of whining is to fire at the enemy, hoping you just take him out but knowing you may take out your teammate in the process.

_Kradok_ #128 Posted Mar 08 2019 - 20:53

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Just played a game where a guy (white stats) with the name pretty much mimicking Claus' pushed me in to a wall sideways until I flipped over on to his tank.  The result of the battle was apparently a loss - I logged off, went to the rest room, enjoyed a nice bit of 9lb Hammer, and started tanks back.  I'm blue now....lul. 

 

But past logging out, my give a damn has evaporated. I reported him and this will be sorted out, or I'll find a new game to play.  If it's not enjoyable, there's no point.



PugnaxAlbere #129 Posted Mar 08 2019 - 21:21

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View Postdunniteowl, on Mar 08 2019 - 20:18, said:

 

Someone pointed out something that, once I read it, was obvious about this, though I never considered it.

 

No Team Damage would provide SPGs unparalleled power, as well as creating new tactics of pinning enemy units to let your team mates pound them with impunity.  With no team damage, then the Green Team has absolutely no concern for being responsible with their shots.  This would mean someone could bring a hard to pen unit into the mix, have them block, pin or push Red Team units while the rest of the team just bangs away -- after all that facehugging tank will only get popped by Red Team Shells.

 

Of course, this would be a two-way street.  That said, just take a few moments to imagine how much MORE this would destroy the current game meta than even WVs ever could.

 

Imagine it for a moment and you'll probably be in favor of keeping Team Damage or Friendly Fire in the game.

 

 

OvO

ok so lemme get this straight.......taking out team damage would destroy the current meta? but keeping it in and allowing this BS to continue is better for the meta? I come from console and we have not had team damage in a while there and when it was taken out the BS stopped. so after a while WG gave back arty he splash damage..... they corrected that decision in the very next update iirc, i wonder why? 



JunkaTheAdmirable #130 Posted Mar 08 2019 - 21:24

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View Postdunniteowl, on Mar 08 2019 - 20:18, said:

 

Someone pointed out something that, once I read it, was obvious about this, though I never considered it.

 

No Team Damage would provide SPGs unparalleled power, as well as creating new tactics of pinning enemy units to let your team mates pound them with impunity.  With no team damage, then the Green Team has absolutely no concern for being responsible with their shots.  This would mean someone could bring a hard to pen unit into the mix, have them block, pin or push Red Team units while the rest of the team just bangs away -- after all that facehugging tank will only get popped by Red Team Shells.

 

Of course, this would be a two-way street.  That said, just take a few moments to imagine how much MORE this would destroy the current game meta than even WVs ever could.

 

Imagine it for a moment and you'll probably be in favor of keeping Team Damage or Friendly Fire in the game.

 

 

OvO

 

I agree with this. The only real way to deal with the issue is to take the time to watch replays and adjudicate each situation individually. It's a hassle for the game staff, but if someone makes a false report trying to get someone banned, then just ban them.

Benjammn79 #131 Posted Mar 08 2019 - 21:47

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View PostAMSRocker, on Mar 08 2019 - 10:02, said:

 

Why don't we just get rid of team damage from shooting and that would end 75% if this stuff?

 

View Postalienation, on Mar 08 2019 - 10:46, said:

The most simple solution for me would be to revert team damage back to the player who caused it. You shoot a teammate, you take the damage, not him. You ram, you lose the HP, not him. That would make everyone extra-careful! Could you imagine how much more prudent arty would be if they got destroyed due to landing a shell too close to a friendly? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think just turning off team damage makes the most sense.  They did it for Frontline and people appreciated it.  The second suggestion is also a good one.  Over in WoWS when you do enough team damage you go pink (instead of blue) and any further team damage is automatically turned back onto the offending player.  I've seen players try to intentionally TK a player and end up sinking themselves instead.


Edited by Benjammn79, Mar 08 2019 - 21:47.


Griffon327327 #132 Posted Mar 08 2019 - 21:48

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View PostRHeadshot, on Mar 02 2019 - 13:21, said:

They've been taking tickets for intentional tks for at least several months now, though from your explanation it's not exactly clear that the tk was actually intentional.

 

utter nonsense wargaming has an automated system to handle Team killing and every veteran player knows how often and how much ha can get away with before turning blue or returning back from blue

 

any ticket were you mention team damage or killing is instantly tossed in the trash and ignored .. period the only tickets they accept are illegal mods selling accounts and physics abuse

 

if someone gets ban from team killing were he didnt turn blue ? its because some one team killed a moderator or a wargaming executive employee in a sherriff account and that person stopped playing long enough to personally ban hammer the guy ..



KRZYBooP #133 Posted Mar 08 2019 - 22:15

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View PostThePigSheFlies, on Mar 06 2019 - 10:42, said:

 

many of us are not.  can you cite/point to that ruling?

can you also give an indication of when it was updated?

 

it has been a long standing practice of the player base to delete griefers that are so toxic that they turn blue, and in my opinion it's a good practice.  it's one of the few things where we can get some sort of catharsis since we have to take literally everything about rules enforcement on faith with you guys...

 

View Postdunniteowl, on Mar 06 2019 - 12:01, said:

 

Well, you need to MAKE AN ANNOUNCEMENT, this is the first ANY of US have heard this thing you describe.

 

 

Blue tanks are able to be fired upon and cost you no team damage/TK sanctions.  This is in the Battle Mechanics Wiki:

 

     

You will NOT get experience for:

  1. Team-killing.
  2. Damaging an ally's tank, even if said ally is "blue" (i.e. the player's name is shown in blue after team damage/team kill).

 

This is pretty much all it says in the Battle Mechanics on TK/TD.  I could find nothing else in the official documentation on Blue Tanks and any penalties associated with it directly.  Sadly I can find no official information on shooting blue tanks.  I do recall that at one point in time, I had read that shooting blue tanks incurs no penalty, however you also get no damage credit for shooting them.  I just can't find anything OFFICIAL on that matter.

 

Perhaps you (KRZYBooP) could link us to something Official on the Policy of Shooting Blue Tanks -- or official rules of how that works?

 

Appreciate this opportunity to get a definitive and OFFICIAL response in this matter that has the WG Imprimatur upon it -- if you wouldn't mind.

 

 

As far as I know, there is no penalty (and there should NOT be one) for shooting a blue tank.

 

 

That said, shooting a blue tank gains no XP or Credits.  Shooting a blue tank means you are NOT shooting a Red Tank (the other team).  Shooting a blue tank is a waste of ammo, time and attention (unless it's actively committing harm to your team).

 

For this reason, I spend very little time on attempting to harm a blue tank.  I am not going to chase them down, nor am I going to spend credits (for shell cost) for no good reason (an inactive blue tank can still spot and meat shield for the team, like it or not).

 

I would love to see an Official WG Standing on this, though.

 

 

GL, HF & HSYBF!

OvO

 

The rule is: Don't shoot your team.

 

It doesn't specify what color cause it doesn't have to. 

 

 

The automated TK system doesn't penalize players for shooting Blue tanks, but it does not mean that anyone can shoot a Blue tank is immune from getting reported.

 

A tank turning Blue is for the Violator to know that if they continue their behavior of damaging friendly tanks; that they are close to receiving an automatic TK ban by our system. 

 

Some Information on the rules from the EULA. I included rule 8.03 that Support is always open to feedback.

Spoiler

 



SnakePliskan #134 Posted Mar 08 2019 - 22:26

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View Postalienation, on Mar 08 2019 - 18:46, said:

The most simple solution for me would be to revert team damage back to the player who caused it. You shoot a teammate, you take the damage, not him. You ram, you lose the HP, not him. That would make everyone extra-careful! Could you imagine how much more prudent arty would be if they got destroyed due to landing a shell too close to a friendly? 

 

I was with you until you went down the butt hurt trash road of arty hitting a friendly. Almost every single time I have ever hit a friendly with arty THE friendly drove into it. The other times the friendly after a circle was posted on the map for fire location decided to ignore that and face hug the designated target. OK you knew buddy there was inc and chose to ignore it BADA BOOM deal....

RHeadshot #135 Posted Mar 08 2019 - 23:04

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View PostKRZYBooP, on Mar 08 2019 - 22:15, said:

 

 

The rule is: Don't shoot your team.

 

It doesn't specify what color cause it doesn't have to.

 

 

The automated TK system doesn't penalize players for shooting Blue tanks, but it does not mean that anyone can shoot a Blue tank is immune from getting reported.

 

A tank turning Blue is for the Violator to know that if they continue their behavior of damaging friendly tanks; that they are close to receiving an automatic TK ban by our system.

 

Some Information on the rules from the EULA. I included rule 8.03 that Support is always open to feedback.

Spoiler

 

 

Funny.  Guess the reason you guys made the link to the tk system no longer function is because that link stated that all sanctions for team damage and team kills would come from the automated system and that you were no longer taking any tickets regarding team damage incidents.  You can claim that the rules haven't changed all you want, but everyone knows, including you, that the rules HAVE changed.

TVV #136 Posted Mar 08 2019 - 23:05

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View PostSnakePliskan, on Mar 08 2019 - 22:26, said:

 

I was with you until you went down the butt hurt trash road of arty hitting a friendly. Almost every single time I have ever hit a friendly with arty THE friendly drove into it. The other times the friendly after a circle was posted on the map for fire location decided to ignore that and face hug the designated target. OK you knew buddy there was inc and chose to ignore it BADA BOOM deal....

 

Just showing that you will shoot somewhere does not mean that you should actually take the shot. It is like saying that once you put your turn light on, you have a right to merge. 

 

Of course, with the broken system we have right now, arty is more or less exempt from team damage rules, so you can take the shot without risking any serious penalties. WG has decided to leave it up to the judgement of players, and more specifically arty players, and most of the players in this game have repeatedly demonstrated that they lack good judgement ability, but rather feel entitled to take a shot with complete disregard for their teammates.

 

Removing team damage as in Frontline will fix this issue, and it will also eliminate the ability of frustrated players to TK an arty at the start of a game, so everybody wins and gets to have a better gaming experience. Not sure why WG has not fixed this already, but the company is busy releasing new tank lines nobody asked for. 



KRZYBooP #137 Posted Mar 08 2019 - 23:28

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View PostRHeadshot, on Mar 08 2019 - 16:04, said:

 

Funny.  Guess the reason you guys made the link to the tk system no longer function is because that link stated that all sanctions for team damage and team kills would come from the automated system and that you were no longer taking any tickets regarding team damage incidents.  You can claim that the rules haven't changed all you want, but everyone knows, including you, that the rules HAVE changed.

 

Yes and all team damage and Kills are handled by the TK system. That is why a player turns blue. That's not what the question is about. 

 

The questions are "Can I get a sanction for shooting a blue player? " Is there a rule that states specifically? "

 

You can get reported for shooting a blue player, since players are free to submit tickets for rule violations. WG handles them on a case by case basis. 

 

Yes there is a rule that states it specifically, and its Don't shoot your Team mates, which has not changed. 



RHeadshot #138 Posted Mar 09 2019 - 00:06

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View PostKRZYBooP, on Mar 08 2019 - 23:28, said:

 

Yes and all team damage and Kills are handled by the TK system. That is why a player turns blue. That's not what the question is about.

 

The questions are "Can I get a sanction for shooting a blue player? " Is there a rule that states specifically? "

 

You can get reported for shooting a blue player, since players are free to submit tickets for rule violations. WG handles them on a case by case basis.

 

Yes there is a rule that states it specifically, and its Don't shoot your Team mates, which has not changed.

 

Maybe I'm going at this the wrong way and we're just not understanding each other clearly, so i'm going to try a different approach.

Are you telling us that if we shoot a blue player intentionally, under any circumstance, and he reports us that we will be suspended for intentional team killing?

Example 1:  I watch a teammate intentionally shoot another teammate and turn blue.  Am I allowed to tk the attacking player when he continues his teamkilling.


 

Example 2, in which I could understand this change:  I see a teammate turn blue after a small collision soon after the game starts.  He continues on his way and appears to intend to help the team and in no way showing aggression towards his teammates.


 

If we face suspensions for both examples, your system is just a joke.  If you're trying to force players to take a closer look at the situation before tk'ing the blue guy, I can understand that theory behind it, even though I may disagree with the practicality of it.


Edited by RHeadshot, Mar 09 2019 - 00:47.


JLdragon #139 Posted Mar 09 2019 - 00:54

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The solution is simple, simply just remove team killing from the random battles from the game completely just like you guys have done with Frontline. therefore there will be no more whining and crying about this issue simple as that..

And then the only thing you will have to worry about will be physics abuse.



ThePigSheFlies #140 Posted Mar 09 2019 - 01:10

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View PostKRZYBooP, on Mar 08 2019 - 17:28, said:

 

Yes and all team damage and Kills are handled by the TK system. That is why a player turns blue. That's not what the question is about. 

 

The questions are "Can I get a sanction for shooting a blue player? " Is there a rule that states specifically? "

 

You can get reported for shooting a blue player, since players are free to submit tickets for rule violations. WG handles them on a case by case basis. 

 

Yes there is a rule that states it specifically, and its Don't shoot your Team mates, which has not changed. 

 

this is news to a HUGE SWATH of the player base, and is contrary to how literally everyone I know has been playing the game for years.

 

for one, most people view the teams as red / green (color blind mode not withstanding) and a blue player is neither...  in fact for most of us Americans, the concept is that of a traitor, or turncoat and should infact be dealt with summary court martial.

 

you guys now, appear to be interpreting that differently so regardless, duly noted. 

 

@ghostprime, if you're out there, this is another example of the discussion we had a couple of years ago about nebulous, and seemingly varying levels of enforcement for various infractions - including those that are dragged up from ancient history and then applied retroactively.  it reeks, and is the type of thing that makes many American consumers uncomfortable financially supporting such a company...  






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