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★ Here's how I would fix / nerf the T67 ★

T67 T49 USA American Tank Destroyer Turret TD Nerf The Scorpions Den Scorpiany

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Scorpiany #1 Posted Mar 19 2019 - 07:03

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The T67 has been a seal clubber's dream for many years now, and WG still hasn't done anything to actually change the tank.

 

Here's the problem - It's a very popular tank, and serves a unique playstyle / role that not many TD's can offer. However, with a good crew, the tank quickly becomes dominant over most low Tier players, as it can easily outspot everyone it fights against.

 

So, here's my solution as to how to rebalance the tank.


 

What's the Problem?

 

The T67 has one of the best guns at Tier 5, far and above better what almost anything else at the Tier has. However, it also has great camo values and great mobility, while also having decent view range.

 

This means that the T67 can do well at close ranges (Because of the mobility / DPM), but also excels at long ranged shooting.

 

In particular, long-ranged shooting is what makes the T67 such a problematic tank. It can rush into position, outspot its opponents, and tear them down before they can get into cover or react. Its gun is far too good at long ranges, despite its relatively poor accuracy.


 

How would I fix the tank?

 

Remove the 76mm gun from the tank, and instead give it a variant of its stock 57mm, except with a few changes. In particular, here's how the 57mm would change under my proposal:

 

 

Guns: Current Gun (57mm) My Changes (57mm)
Rate of Fire: 27.20 30.23

Aiming Time:

1.63 1.63
Accuracy: .37 .39
DPM: 2,040.37 2,267.08
Penetration: 110/180/29 110/165/29
Damage: 75/75/95 75/75/95
Shell Velocity: 823/1,029/823 850/975/850
Soft Stats: .20/.20/.08 .21/.21/.08
Gun Angles: -10/+20 -10/+20
Ammo Capacity: 70 60

 

 

Blue values are those that are improved over the current 57mm, red values are ones that get worse.


 

What would this accomplish?

 

By removing the 76mm, the T67 no longer can put out relatively high alpha shells out with such precision at long distances. Now, the T67 has a problem - It will shoot faster than it can aim. Also, its accuracy remains relatively poor.

 

This means that at long distances, the T67 driver has 2 choices:

  • Shoot without stopping (Which results in not fully aimed shells, thus plenty of misses and lower DPM)
  • Aim each shot (Resulting in more time spent aiming, meaning less DPM at long distance)

 

Also, the unreliable accuracy of the gun will already produce misses. This means that at long distances, not only will the T67 driver simply not have the DPM output advertised because of the poor accuracy, but because they will shoot faster than they can aim, they will lose a lot of their long distance killing power.

 

Further, lower penetration over the 76mm (110mm on AP, 165mm on APCR) means that the T67 drivers will really struggle to penetrate targets with the same kind of ease as they could before.


 

How would the T67 play after the changes?

 

The T67 would still be a unique and interesting vehicle that rewards skillful gameplay. However, it would lose a lot of its long-distance killing power. The tank would still be able to fight back at close ranges because of the DPM that it has, but at close ranges the T67 would feel fairly balanced. It would still have its mobility and DPM, but it's extremely vulernable to return fire.

 

At long distances, the tank would still have its camo and mobility, but now the gun performance would significantly lack over its competition such as the Wolverine. Now, T67 drivers would be making a proper sacrifice - They lose out on long range capability to gain the mobility and camo that the T67 gets. The Wolverine would still retain its 76mm in its current state, which means that the Wolverine would be the go-to tank for people who want better long-distance sniping and gun performance, whereas people who want to scout or use camo would turn to the T67.

 

All of a sudden, the Wolverine becomes a proper rival to the T67 again, and the T67 loses the one thing that made it so damaging to gameplay; which was its ability to tear apart targets that it out-spotted itself.



saru_richard #2 Posted Mar 19 2019 - 07:28

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this could of work two years ago before super heavies became prevalent but now with how low tiers are like I don't see this panning out well, perhaps a change in mobility would of worked better or taking your 57 mm gun and make it an in-between when it comes to penetration between the stock gun and the 76 mm

jt1alta #3 Posted Mar 19 2019 - 08:31

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 Having a op tank at lower levels is imho not a bad thing as it adds some desire to advance to get one.

Restricting player usage after a certain number of battles, perhaps no xp and 50% less credits after a set number of battles would help counter the " clubbers" since this is more a player problem than one about equipment.

I seem to remember the Hellcat being "fixed" and I don't think it ever recovered.



cKy_ #4 Posted Mar 19 2019 - 08:56

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All good, except for the buff to the reload speed of the 57mm. It already goes below 2 seconds, it doesn't need to go any lower.

Sam_Sanister #5 Posted Mar 19 2019 - 09:11

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Like you said, the most OP thing about it is its DPM; reduce the DPM on its M1A1 by 250.

Nerf the soft stats to 0.24/0.24/0.14 (so they're slightly worse than the Wolverine's)

Nerf the aim time from 1.63 to 1.9 


 

Since its gun is lacking in pen and alpha compared to most other T5 TDs, it does need a bit of a DPM advantage.

2.2K (with a rammer) is fine.



F1O1 #6 Posted Mar 19 2019 - 10:16

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A few things l don't like to see.

A seal clubber, yes, once upon a time 3/5/7 did not exist, and tier 5 dragged up tier 3 tanks, to which T67 even with a 115 damage gun can 2-shot. This does not happen anymore, as T67 gets buried in tier 7 matches all the time and can't fight tier 3s.

 

''Dominate Most low tier players''  Well yes, it certainly did then. War gaming took steps to reduce this, by removing tier 3s now. 

 

T67 has one of the best guns tier 5? Since when? The DPM, well that is nice, but risks exposure, especially because of more common tier 6-7 opponents with solid view range and no more blind tier 3. Light tank rework a couple years ago, means more light tanks for T67 to contend with, and map rebalances have removed alot of bushes, and/or remove alot of popular climbing spots T67 could use. Another thing, TD track rework makes TD slide more, when trying to climb or embank itself. lt has a tier 5 medium tank gun, which usually is not the case for TD. This marks it as decidedly low firepower for a TD, in a tier where TD have guns like Pz lVC and S35CA. ln a comparison, T67 has the gun T40 has, a tier below. Which although still more or less suitable tier 5, certainly isn't great. Alpha of 115 is relatively high?  Without facing tier 3 anymore, compared to many other TD of the tier doing 135, 150, 160, 180, 240, 300? Pen of 128 isn't spectacular either. T67 has great firepower, perhaps compared to AT2.......lt is T67 platform that allows it to use a suitable gun, more suitably. 

 

outspot enemies? With 340m view range? Which by the way includes the 20m nerf when it changed its name, unlike M10. Binoculars certainly help, but T67 enjoys optics to keep it flexible. lt is more of T67 out camo-ing enemies. Which, for as far as camo goes and it is good, it is not even top 6 in tier 5 TD for camo values. Again, it is the superior platform which helps. People like the tank, and play with 5-skill crews developed over years  (some people have accounts with thousands of games it it)  sure in this situation alot of tanks dominate then.

 

Alot of enemies use the 105mm howitzer. Many also use the 122mm, or the British short barrel 3.7 inch. These weapons wreck T67.  lntroducing tanks like the ltalian P26/40 and P43, the Excalibur, French wheeled armoured cars with general purpose high pen HE rounds haven't helped T67 either. Buffing a tank to extreme popularity like T3485M has also made a new tough opponent for T67, and tanks like Skoda T25, 12T, and strv M/57 easily clip it.

 

Great camo, small size, great speed, flexible turret  -  cannot argue there. All which owe to its success. 

l really think though the over powered T67 is a thing of the past. lt certainly is more manageable now. 

Unless of course WG finally caves in and makes +1/-1 MM, and T67 becomes gross overnight.

 

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

My changes would be different. Firstly, l hate T67 alot, because it ignores most common Turret TD penalties and shortcomings, world of tanks often doles out. For example, let me explain with other vehicles that are instead treated very unfairly, in order to restrict their performance. Skorpion G, charioteer, M56 scorpion, Conway, T110E4, T30, FV183, FV4005, Grille  -  alot of these turret TD,  have --ABYSMAL-- dispersion stats. Like, comparable even to SPG. ln some cases, T67 is 30% better, ridiculously. How can a WG staff developer or publisher, justify T67 having .2/.2/.05 why Hellcat has absolute sloppy .36/.36/.19. wonder why people put GLD on things like Hellcat or Grille? This is why, Grille by the way is .25/.29/.38. With an atrocious camo 3x less than T67.  T67 despite having great HP/T, also maintains good terrain resistances, track traverse, reverse speed....whereas alot of other turret TD have these penalized. Picking on Hellcat again, but also Jackson, Skorpion G.  Frankly, most of the TD with turrets, are treated as out-of-class exceptions  (like a T34 heavy tank)  so it is difficult to play them as either medium tanks (conway, skorpion G, FV4005, T25/2, Hellcat) or heavy tanks (T28 HTC, T110E4, FV183)  That is what l would like to see, T67 being nerfed in soft parameter performances, so it more resembles other vehicles like it. Give it T40 rate of fire too, to curb the DPM, sort of like how the late tier American TD tech tree is.  T28 has tremendous firepower over T28 proto and even T30 a tier up, with 105 and 120mm guns. T95 has a great firepower boost over T30. T110E3 over T110E4. 

 

Suggested nerfs

Dispersion changes: .2/.2/.08 --> .24/.24/.12

Terrain resistances: .96/1.05/2.01 --> 1.05/1.25/2.21

Reverse top speed: 20km/hr --> 13km/hr

Rate of fire decrease: 18.75 --> 16.22

Ammunition capacity: 45 --> 35.  How does Turan hold 32 pieces, while a T67 holds 45? T67 holds the same capacity M18 does, 45.  Really? What is that all about. Reduce to 35. 

 

 

 

 

 



cKy_ #7 Posted Mar 19 2019 - 10:31

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View PostF1O1, on Mar 19 2019 - 21:16, said:

Ammunition capacity: 45 --> 35.  How does Turan hold 32 pieces, while a T67 holds 45? T67 holds the same capacity M18 does, 45.  Really? What is that all about. Reduce to 35. 

 

I don't think ammo capacity should ever be used as a balancing feature for tanks. It doesn't seem right to punish someone for having a great game by having them run out of shells before they can win, powerful tier 5 seal clubbing machine or not. 

 

I haven't played the T67 since it was called the T49, but I'm guessing that even 45 shells is a little low, I feel like running out of shells is already quite a prominent possibility. 



F1O1 #8 Posted Mar 19 2019 - 10:48

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lf Hellcat equips the M1A2, it is 45 pieces of ammunition.  l really don't see them carrying the same amount, due to Hellcats size over T67

 



cKy_ #9 Posted Mar 19 2019 - 11:28

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View PostF1O1, on Mar 19 2019 - 21:48, said:

lf Hellcat equips the M1A2, it is 45 pieces of ammunition.  l really don't see them carrying the same amount, due to Hellcats size over T67

 

 

  There is no semblance of logic when it comes to the balancing of this game. It doesn't matter what makes sense based on physical appearances, nor should it.

Devils_Scorpion #10 Posted Mar 19 2019 - 12:04

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View PostcKy_, on Mar 19 2019 - 03:31, said:

 

I don't think ammo capacity should ever be used as a balancing feature for tanks. It doesn't seem right to punish someone for having a great game by having them run out of shells before they can win, powerful tier 5 seal clubbing machine or not. 

 

I haven't played the T67 since it was called the T49, but I'm guessing that even 45 shells is a little low, I feel like running out of shells is already quite a prominent possibility. 

 

I agree with this, no tank should be limited on ammo, T67 is no exception 

Texz #11 Posted Mar 19 2019 - 14:27

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How about no.

_Katyusha___ #12 Posted Mar 19 2019 - 14:34

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My fix would be similar but:

 

Move T67 to tier IV, or, preferably, make both t67 and hellcat be the same tank, t67 stock, hellcat upgraded as Historical Hellcat (but of course, nerfed compared to the current T67) Yeah Hellcat would be balanced on tier V, not VI.

 

Not only T67 is an annoying problem and a tank spammed by stadpadders, but Hellcat would be fixed as well, and more important, would look like a real Hellcat!

 

Then make "Super Hellcat" a tier VI premium. Everyone happy



F1O1 #13 Posted Mar 19 2019 - 14:44

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View PostcKy_, on Mar 19 2019 - 09:31, said:

 

I don't think ammo capacity should ever be used as a balancing feature for tanks. It doesn't seem right to punish someone for having a great game by having them run out of shells before they can win 

 

l don't mind them using it.  It has people counting the shots they take, and making the shots you take count.

Type 59 had it, until its buffs. lS4 and lS7 still have it. FV183 and FV4005 prior to their buff.  Object 261 and M40M43. 

 

What l do mind, is ammo capacity not making sense. A Jag Pz E and GWE carry boat loads of ammunition, but similar sized GW Tiger and GW (P) carry far less. Object 261 and object 263 being comparable in size  (with 261 being larger)  but 263 carries way more shells. 705A carries the same amount as lS7, despite a larger bore size? 121 carries more than the larger 113, that is just weird. 



Projectile_Misfired #14 Posted Mar 19 2019 - 15:31

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Personally, I think WG has already nerfed the T67. 

First, at best, it gets +1 MM, never +2.

Second, and this is a tin-foil hat moment, it feels like WG had slowed its turret rotation and increased its shot dispersion, without actually letting us know. Again, that's just what it "feels" like, at times, which could just be a result of playing other tanks.

And, finally, WG added those wheelie cars. It was bad enough trying to take out a circling Crommy. But, now with some thing that fast, with the improved auto-aim, and usually firing HE.....the T67 doesn't have a chance against it, once spotted.

 

Besides, without the T67 the way it is, the E25 will be a god when +2 top-tier. At least the T67 can hold its own, usually employing the E25's own tactics (hide, spot, shoot-n-scoot), against it.



Hellsfog #15 Posted Mar 19 2019 - 15:52

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The thing about the T67 which makes it op is that seal clubbers play it against inexperienced players (or at least they hope they do). These changes don't address this issue but do make it less able to deal with current MM. Oddly, the current tier 5 mm (-1/+2) does more to address balance than the proposed changes. 

 



tod914 #16 Posted Mar 19 2019 - 15:58

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Change the T67, then you'll have more people playing the Wolverine.  Just reduce the ROF on 76 gun across the board at that tier.

Mikosah #17 Posted Mar 19 2019 - 15:59

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Or just reduce the view range from the current 340m to more like 300m or 310m, comparable to other stealthy TDs of the tier. If it can't spot its own targets, then it either needs to wait for them to be spotted by someone else, or it has to take the risk of moving further forward.

2SPOOKY4U #18 Posted Mar 19 2019 - 16:00

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Give it auto reloader where it’s 3 shells, each takes 2.5 to load (like an op crew/rammer straight fire time now) and then make shells load 5/4/3 that way it takes out dpm and limits it’s burst at insane dpm to 3 shots. and then also on top end single fires you’re now lower dpm. This fixes both long range sniping and close combat traits. Where you know you can bum rush for a single hit and near auto loader clip something to death. 

mlinke #19 Posted Mar 19 2019 - 16:12

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I do not have it... But why would you nerf it?

Dead_Zombie #20 Posted Mar 19 2019 - 16:52

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more people whining about a tank.. I see more people play that tank like a drooler then i see people seal clubbing.. then again, any tank somebody plays is considered seal clubbing if u have over 5k games played.. get over it ffs, sheesh.. not wn8 farming? that might be, but the ONLY people who can farm WN8 are people who actually have a brain and know how to play the game.. everybody else (95% of the player base) is just fodder.

 

imho, seal clubbing tanks aren't  what I consider a glass cannon tank, they are tanks like the Matilda that actually have a gun, and armor.






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