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Brief analysis of proposed arty changes

arty arty changes

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heavymetal1967 #1 Posted Mar 22 2019 - 16:41

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Changes are coming.  By proposed I'm referring to the possibility that things may be adjusted before release aka "working changes" per the vid.

 

Vid starts at the meat and potatoes.

 

 

Also keep in mind I'm doing some reading between the lines.

 

My takeaway...

 

Short version.  What most folks have legitimate issue with aka being perma-stunned is getting an honest nerf.  Also for context by "additional" for most of this I mean a hit on a target that is already stunned.

 

Stun - SIGNIFICANT changes on additional stuns.  If a tank isn't stunned and is hit with then the changes aren't as great.  Also, superheavy and heavy spall liners are getting a buff in that they'll cut those additional stun times more.

 

Also I didn't hear it mentioned, but they stated awhile back that as part of the crew skill rework they were looking at/considering a stun debuff.  That may still be in the works, but in light of these changes maybe not.  Then there is always the "when and if" to consider when dealing with WG.

 

The vid states it basically cuts the additional stun time in half. If you watch the whole thing you'll realize that's a very generalized statement.  There will be quite a few instances where those additional hit(s) will result in NO stun time(s).

 

If an arty that is stunned is stunned by another arty then at best that additional stun time will be half of what it is currently or before these changes.  And it won't be half of the current amount as all stun times are getting lowered with these changes.

 

Also while the vid uses half the original stun amount that additional half will be dependent on the SPG(s) that hit the tank.  And most of the time that additional hit won't have the same stun time, so it won't be half of the original stun.

 

And there is a good chance the additional hit(s) won't stun at all.  If an additional stun after it's halved is less than five seconds then no stun is applied.

 

Stun times are a range.  That range is determined by two things one of which is based on the damage inflicted, the other is a fixed stand alone variable.  They have tweaked the formula slightly so the damage inflicted plays more into the formula.  Part of this is that minimum stun times will be lowered class wide.

 

Also the farther you get out on the burst radius the damage will be lowered somewhat from what it is currently.  This will not only affect damage directly (i.e. those splash shots when someones humping hard cover) it will also lower stun time(s) and likely negate quite a few additional stun splashes.  And to clarify burst radius includes hits that do not pen. 

 

In matches with multiple arty this will affect lower tier arty more just by virtue of them having less stun and damage if they hit a target already stunned by a higher tier arty or by an equal tier arty with better stun.  For example a Bat 58 hitting a target stunned by a Conq GC. 

 

Folks that already capitalize on stun won't have as much time adapting as folks that don't.  They already wait till a stun is about off a target before they hit him so they maximize their stun xp.  Stun xp is shared on multiple arty that have the same target(s) stunned.  So it's better to hit that target first or wait till the stun is off him just in an earned xp sense.  Plus you're keeping him surpressed longer.

 

For example, if I'm running the Bat 58 the intra-clip reload is shorter that the stun times.  So instead of dumping the clip rapid fire I'll stagger it out to max out on stun.  Same on targets that other arty have stunned.  I'll max out the stun, but more importantly the xp earnings will be better.  There are exceptions of course.

 

It'll be interesting to see, but I imagine xp and cred earnings will take a noticeable hit as well. 

 

As far as the cap which is the other big issue folks have aside from being perma-stunned, from what I'm seeing when I play arty re: queue times I think the cap could be lowered to two without issue.  And I think they are aware of this tbh.  The perma-stunning is party of the reason folks want the cap lowered which should be affected by these changes.



I_QQ_4_U #2 Posted Mar 22 2019 - 16:53

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They really need to compensate SPG's for this, the 50% reduction in pen and alpha was supposed to be made up by the assist damage from stun which they are now going to nerf. So where's the compensation? All they've done now is make it even less likely that an SPG will want to fire at anything with armour and just concentrate on soft targets which the whiners constantly whine about.

stalkervision #3 Posted Mar 22 2019 - 16:56

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But where are any arty buffs? All I see are more nerfs. The whiners win again.

stalkervision #4 Posted Mar 22 2019 - 16:57

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View PostI_QQ_4_U, on Mar 22 2019 - 10:53, said:

They really need to compensate SPG's for this, the 50% reduction in pen and alpha was supposed to be made up by the assist damage from stun which they are now going to nerf. So where's the compensation? All they've done now is make it even less likely that an SPG will want to fire at anything with armour and just concentrate on soft targets which the whiners constantly whine about.

 

So true.

Mojo_Riesing #5 Posted Mar 22 2019 - 17:05

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Well, first thanks to the OP for reasonably thorough presentation of what's changed, given what information is available.  Thank also for keeping it free of pro/anti-arty rhetoric.  

 

That being said, i too wonder just "what do arty players get for this nerf?".  Right now, it doesn't look like a lot, actually nothing.  That won't work.    I'd agree too that capping arty at 2 per side in random matches is a good thing (probably the same for wheelies btw).  With all that's being nerfed, there just needs to be consideration for what arty players have lost here. Faster re-loads?  maybe an anti-tank RPG perk for crew members? Well, maybe not that LOL.



stalkervision #6 Posted Mar 22 2019 - 17:06

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Frankly I'm so tired of arty nerfs with little or no compensation and in fact major deductions that WG can give me all the research time and credits involved grinding my arty and I would be fine with it. I will just get a super heavy and sit hall down while you all rage that you wish you had arty players back to counter them.

heavymetal1967 #7 Posted Mar 22 2019 - 17:10

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Well it's too early to tell, plus I doubt any counterbuffs would me mentioned in the first relased vid.  WIth that said there may be none.

 

First let me say I play arty a lot. So this ain't an I don't like arty diatribe.

 

I'm on the fence personally.  Partly because it's still in the works.  Party because let's be honest - stun is overdone.  But overdone on the receiving end. 

 

Stun assist was compensation for the nerfs.  And they are cutting this and potentially considerably.  So that does give me concern as an arty player, because tbh right now it's a friggin xp and silver bonanza for the most part.   How much these changes cut into that is yet to be seen, so I'll wait and see.

 

ONE more reason to limit the cap more, so my greedy [redacted] doesn't have to share or worry about some other Cheeto fingered ally not marking their target and nuking him right before my shell lands and my stun gets cut.  Talk about... :arta:  lol.

 

Also I don't have the client open atm, but stun comparisons between arty that are within the same MM range may have significant issues.  If an arty hits a target stunned by a higher tier arty then it may be a non stun most of the time.  Or it may not be, again not looking at the client or the ranges.  Same may apply if a punier arty hits a target stunned by a more buff arty regardless of tiering.

 

Again the work around is hit them "fresh and new", but not always possible especially if multiple arty are in a match.

 

The guys in matches with multiple arty getting XVM focused will be a bigger benefactor of these changes than those that don't get focused as often.  So that is a good balance to be honest.

 

But they also state they're looking at individual pieces.  Be interesting to see what they do there.  This may be where they also do some counterbuffing.  Or it may be a total nerf fest.

 

But they can (whether they will may be another story) counterbuff down the road also.

 

 



stalkervision #8 Posted Mar 22 2019 - 17:14

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In fact I am very sure most of not all arty players will do the same thing and complain to support about refunds. You guys can deal with the new lights on your own. Better half your premium rounds for he now. Good luck with that ! :teethhappy:

stalkervision #9 Posted Mar 22 2019 - 17:23

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listen just give arty back a few AP shells and we will call it even WG. Your still getting the better deal by far.

Garandster #10 Posted Mar 22 2019 - 17:25

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View PostI_QQ_4_U, on Mar 22 2019 - 10:53, said:

They really need to compensate SPG's for this, the 50% reduction in pen and alpha was supposed to be made up by the assist damage from stun which they are now going to nerf. So where's the compensation? All they've done now is make it even less likely that an SPG will want to fire at anything with armour and just concentrate on soft targets which the whiners constantly whine about.

 

View PostMojo_Riesing, on Mar 22 2019 - 11:05, said:

Well, first thanks to the OP for reasonably thorough presentation of what's changed, given what information is available.  Thank also for keeping it free of pro/anti-arty rhetoric.  

 

That being said, i too wonder just "what do arty players get for this nerf?".  Right now, it doesn't look like a lot, actually nothing.  That won't work.    I'd agree too that capping arty at 2 per side in random matches is a good thing (probably the same for wheelies btw).  With all that's being nerfed, there just needs to be consideration for what arty players have lost here. Faster re-loads?  maybe an anti-tank RPG perk for crew members? Well, maybe not that LOL.

 

View Poststalkervision, on Mar 22 2019 - 11:06, said:

Frankly I'm so tired of arty nerfs with little or no compensation and in fact major deductions that WG can give me all the research time and credits involved grinding my arty and I would be fine with it. I will just get a super heavy and sit hall down while you all rage that you wish you had arty players back to counter them.

 

I don't really expect any compensation for this re-balance, they are taking a mechanic that was broken and reining it back in to make it more fair.

stalkervision #11 Posted Mar 22 2019 - 17:28

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View PostGarandster, on Mar 22 2019 - 11:25, said:

 

 

 

I don't really expect any compensation for this re-balance, they are taking a mechanic that was broken and reining it back in to make it more fair.

 

one sided fair. 

SwipertheFox #12 Posted Mar 22 2019 - 17:28

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Are they going to change some of the missions that requires stunning?

spud_tuber #13 Posted Mar 22 2019 - 17:35

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View PostGarandster, on Mar 22 2019 - 10:25, said:

 

 

 

I don't really expect any compensation for this re-balance, they are taking a mechanic that was broken and reining it back in to make it more fair.

That's fine, but arty already are, as a class, already underperforming.   If WG cares about making things better both for arty and for targets like they mention in the video, then the individual unit adjustments they also mentioned need to be almost entirely buffs(with a few exceptions like M44).

 

I will give credit to WG for one thing.  The previous arty rework did make arty somewhat more skill sensitive, with better performance for good players and worse performance for bad players, in general.

 

*shrug* We'll see how it goes.



spud_tuber #14 Posted Mar 22 2019 - 17:36

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View PostSwipertheFox, on Mar 22 2019 - 10:28, said:

Are they going to change some of the missions that requires stunning?

One would hope all stun related missions would be adjusted to compensate.   This is WG we're talking about, though, so don't expect it until a patch or 2 after the changes(assuming the changes make it live )



PJMC #15 Posted Mar 22 2019 - 17:38

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World of heavy and medium tanks...

Trauglodyte #16 Posted Mar 22 2019 - 17:41

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View PostGarandster, on Mar 22 2019 - 17:25, said:

 

 

 

I don't really expect any compensation for this re-balance, they are taking a mechanic that was broken and reining it back in to make it more fair.

 

They already stated that they're going to revisit individual SPGs and nation groups.  Plus, they're going to look at the ripple effect on missions.

Remember, all of this is a testing "IF".  Nothing is permanent until it rolls out to Live.

Edited by Trauglodyte, Mar 22 2019 - 17:42.


Nonamanadus #17 Posted Mar 22 2019 - 17:43

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When I play arty out I focus on soft targets/lower tier for damage instead of the "stun effect", much more effective taking guns/support out than going for the heavy guys (unless it's a Version 4 then all the love goes his way). 

Nothing_Special #18 Posted Mar 22 2019 - 17:50

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Just bring back the old days of arty with AP and have just 1 arty per game. Que times are long enuff to get into a game. With these new wheeled lights, doesnt matter what WG does to arty, arty will still die within 5 mins. JMO

Bladerunner_ #19 Posted Mar 22 2019 - 17:57

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View Postspud_tuber, on Mar 22 2019 - 17:35, said:

That's fine, but arty already are, as a class, already underperforming.   If WG cares about making things better both for arty and for targets like they mention in the video, then the individual unit adjustments they also mentioned need to be almost entirely buffs(with a few exceptions like M44).

 

I will give credit to WG for one thing.  The previous arty rework did make arty somewhat more skill sensitive, with better performance for good players and worse performance for bad players, in general.

 

*shrug* We'll see how it goes.

you can always leave the game if you dont like the changes - lol 



I_QQ_4_U #20 Posted Mar 22 2019 - 18:06

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View PostGarandster, on Mar 22 2019 - 17:25, said:

 

 

 

I don't really expect any compensation for this re-balance, they are taking a mechanic that was broken and reining it back in to make it more fair.

 

Some day I'd love to see someone actually come up with a reasonable argument that it's a broken mechanic that has anything to do with the rules of this game.





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