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My understanding of arty


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RageMachine117 #21 Posted Mar 23 2019 - 01:17

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View Poststevezaxx, on Mar 23 2019 - 01:12, said:

if arty  were OP, the any battle with Arty in it, would end with a Draw, every time there were the same number on each side.

 

 

People do badly in OP tanks all the time. You know how many IS-3A's I've seen do 0 damage. OP is not idiot-proof. Never has been never will be (unless WG really goes off the deep end)

RaynorShyne #22 Posted Mar 23 2019 - 01:18

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View PostRageMachine117, on Mar 22 2019 - 18:13, said:

 

Well personally I prefered crap accuracy/high damage. You could avoid arty fire,splash wasnt as big of a thing,and more often than not if you did get slapped well the arty got a lucky kill. To balance this class I would say remove the stun feature,rework the damage mechanic to be more similar to those of other tanks,and nerf the accuracy a bit so arty players actually have to try to hit the target. OR if they absolutely MUST stay in this format. Limit it to 1 per game. 

 

Agreed.  Go back to pre 9.18

 

Though the community back then  SO MUCH wanted it the way it is now.



RageMachine117 #23 Posted Mar 23 2019 - 01:20

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View PostRaynorShyne, on Mar 23 2019 - 01:18, said:

 

Agreed.  Go back to pre 9.18

 

Though the community back then  SO MUCH wanted it the way it is now.

 

Well. The simple thing I can say to that point is the saying "The grass is greener on the other side" I would safely say in this instance no the grass was not greener and we should go back. 

RaynorShyne #24 Posted Mar 23 2019 - 01:22

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View PostRageMachine117, on Mar 22 2019 - 18:20, said:

 

Well. The simple thing I can say to that point is the saying "The grass is greener on the other side" I would safely say in this instance no the grass was not greener and we should go back. 

 

:great:

JakeTheMystic #25 Posted Mar 23 2019 - 01:26

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View PostRageMachine117, on Mar 22 2019 - 13:53, said:

I have closely followed this game for years and this seems to be how this has gone in regards to artillery

Community: Remove arty. Wargaming: Limit amount from 20+ to less than that?

Community: Remove arty. Wargaming: Nerf their accuracy?

Community: Remove arty. Wargaming: Buff their accuracy,"reduce their damage",Buff splash radius,and give them an annoying stun feature that makes having repair kits meaningless? 

Community: Remove arty. Wargaming: Start screwing around with every possible mechanic to make them as cancerously broken as possible? 

I have arrived at the conclusion that Wargaming is intentionally not listening and is all but exclusively listening to arty players that believe their sky cancer isn't broken enough yet. Next up

Community: Remove arty. Wargaming: Buff damage back to one shot 7/10 times level and buff their accuracy to standard tank levels?

Wargamings motto: Screw the players we want money. 

 

WG keeps arty because it has embedded itself into the game. There are campaign missions revolving around it and if they were to just remove all of the arty (including premiums) everyone would want compensation, lots of it. 

 

WG doesn't do compensation, at least not well. 

 

If they gave us pennies for all of the time spent grinding arty, people would leave. 

 

Besides, the only people complaining about arty on the forums are the extremists who's opinion should be discarded. 



RageMachine117 #26 Posted Mar 23 2019 - 01:29

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View PostJakeTheMystic, on Mar 23 2019 - 01:26, said:

 

 

 

Besides, the only people complaining about arty on the forums are the extremists who's opinion should be discarded. 

How is pointing out what WG has done to arty and suggesting fixes (which as stated isnt necessarily removing it outright) extremism. :unsure:



Omega_Weapon #27 Posted Mar 23 2019 - 01:32

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View PostRageMachine117, on Mar 22 2019 - 17:53, said:

I have closely followed this game for years and this seems to be how this has gone in regards to artillery

Community: Remove arty. Wargaming: Limit amount from 20+ to less than that?

Community: Remove arty. Wargaming: Nerf their accuracy?

Community: Remove arty. Wargaming: Buff their accuracy,"reduce their damage",Buff splash radius,and give them an annoying stun feature that makes having repair kits meaningless? 

Community: Remove arty. Wargaming: Start screwing around with every possible mechanic to make them as cancerously broken as possible? 

I have arrived at the conclusion that Wargaming is intentionally not listening and is all but exclusively listening to arty players that believe their sky cancer isn't broken enough yet. Next up

Community: Remove arty. Wargaming: Buff damage back to one shot 7/10 times level and buff their accuracy to standard tank levels?

Wargamings motto: Screw the players we want money. 

 

Except the community never has called for the removal of arty. At least not the majority. Its just a sad minority of the community that would actually support this.

RageMachine117 #28 Posted Mar 23 2019 - 01:34

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View PostOmega_Weapon, on Mar 23 2019 - 01:32, said:

 

Except the community never has called for the removal of arty. At least not the majority. Its just a sad minority of the community that would actually support this.

 

Ok remove or change hows that.

Omega_Weapon #29 Posted Mar 23 2019 - 01:34

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View PostGuido1212, on Mar 22 2019 - 18:18, said:

Do you really believe the multiple changes over multiple years have been caused by a vocal minority?

 

If it was a vocal majority, do you think arty would still be part of the game 8 years later?

Omega_Weapon #30 Posted Mar 23 2019 - 01:40

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View PostRageMachine117, on Mar 22 2019 - 19:34, said:

Ok remove or change hows that.

 

If you go with "change" arty, you are more likely to get a majority interested. It all depends though on what the specific changes entail. Big nerfs to a class that is already the least capable and least effective in game probably won't get you the popular support you would be hoping for.



ATruk #31 Posted Mar 23 2019 - 01:46

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Around 6% of my games have been in SPGs. That’s 94% in other tanks including a few in the new “wanks”. 

I rarely get destroyed by SPGs; stunned of course, maybe 10HP of damage at a time. Shoot, move, even a few meters keeps me alive from arti fire most times. Got spotted? I move. I know arti has to guess where I will be when his round finally gets where I am. 

Maybe I’m just lucky that way. More bothersome is active spotting then getting steamrolled because my snipers stopped advancing half the map ago. My bad for not watching the map. Arti has saved my butt more than once, even enemy arti occasionally ;)

I’d miss arti. Especially my Bishop. 



scHnuuudle_bop #32 Posted Mar 23 2019 - 01:46

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View PostGuido1212, on Mar 23 2019 - 00:18, said:

Do you really believe the multiple changes over multiple years have been caused by a vocal minority?

 

Yes,

just for starters. The polls in this place indicate that it is a minority who are determined and vocal. Yep, sure a few, but sorry, George broke the polling anyway.

The number of players who own artillery, who was that Serb, 90% of players own artillery and of that 80% play and enjoy it regularly.

It is a Russian game, as well as a large proportion of their customers being the same. The Eastern Europeans love history, and a popular subject is armoured warfare. Like it or not they wanted to develop a 3D arcade game based on WWII armoured warfare. Ta Da, WoT. It is 1/5th of their base game model.

Very recently, there was a large sale, the numbers of premium artillery sold, really , clearly indicates a lot of players will pay cash , willingly for artillery. 

The queue for Frontlines. There are so many players wanting to play, they are willing to wait twice as long in the queue than anyone else.

 

Multiple changes? Compared to what? How many changes have been made to , say , light tanks vs artillery.  

 

Being frustrated is far different than being someone who demands an entire game to change, because it frustrated them.

Most people who get frustrated by this added challenge, find a way to either destroy it, or negate its effects. Artillery is in place for added excitement, you seem to have little problem both negating and destroying this plague. 

 

 

 


Edited by scHnuuudle_bop, Mar 23 2019 - 01:54.


SnakePliskan #33 Posted Mar 23 2019 - 02:09

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View PostGuido1212, on Mar 23 2019 - 00:18, said:

Do you really believe the multiple changes over multiple years have been caused by a vocal minority?

 

Yes if not it would be gone already.

WG has a history of doing less than needed to attempt to reach a middle ground an appease everyone. Which can not be done. SO then they have gone to another extreme of doing to much and pissing everyone off. Followed by not doing anything asked for an pissing everyone off. They simply needed before the stun patch to say deal with it its a part f the game as is. I also do not believe the mythical mass exodus because of arty. Its been repeated so many times its become a fact in the mind of those needing it to bring some authenticity to their emo argument arty needs to be removed in hopes WG will buy in on it.



theSparatan117 #34 Posted Mar 23 2019 - 02:14

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View PostJakeTheMystic, on Mar 22 2019 - 19:26, said:

Besides, the only people complaining about arty on the forums are the extremists who's opinion should be discarded. 

 

Name for me a single streamer that enjoys being hit by arty.

Name for me a single player who does not play artillery, that enjoys playing alongside arty.

Name for me the number of times A MONTH you'll hear someone say "Yay, We have arty this game!" .... 

 

The fact that the majority of players say " F*** arty" in games but those same people never post here, should be deafening... because it means those people are likely going to quit without ever having voiced their opinion on a public forum. 

 

No one likes this mechanic except the people who play it. The fact of the matter is that the people who are here on the forums are the same *****ing people who have been here for the past 6 months. Occasionally a random shows up and posts an unfavorable opinion and people chastise them into the ground for being an idiot instead of educating them or explaining to them why they're wrong in a constructive manner. Using polls here is like yelling your opinion in a vacuum. It's meaningless because you're only discussing that opinion with the same group of people over and over and over. 

 

I don't even bother joining these discussions any longer because the people who defend artillery have yet to provide a good logical explanation as to why it's in the game to begin with. Hell even the developers have said that it's in the game to perform a role (the frag grenade to dig people out of cover), but that role is never actually acted upon... 

 

How daft do you have to be to not realize this. Stop trolling and antagonizing other people for the benefit of your own self gratification. Grow the **** up.... 



MrCranky #35 Posted Mar 23 2019 - 02:22

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Bush Vs Rock; know the difference, feel the difference.

Wingnuttz33 #36 Posted Mar 23 2019 - 02:24

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I would leave if Arty was removed.

When I logged onto the game years ago it was here.

I liked the class, and continue to play it threw all the changes good and bad.

Not one complaint here, I adapted.

 

BUT, the people that don't like arty and post in the forums, usually complain/insult the ARTY players.

As this OP did.

I didn't make this game, nor am i cheating, I am following the game and it's rules as presented since 2011.

 



RaynorShyne #37 Posted Mar 23 2019 - 02:41

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View PosttheSparatan117, on Mar 22 2019 - 19:14, said:

 

Name for me a single streamer that enjoys being hit by arty.

Name for me a single player who does not play artillery, that enjoys playing alongside arty.

Name for me the number of times A MONTH you'll hear someone say "Yay, We have arty this game!" .... 

 

The fact that the majority of players say " F*** arty" in games but those same people never post here, should be deafening... because it means those people are likely going to quit without ever having voiced their opinion on a public forum. 

 

No one likes this mechanic except the people who play it. The fact of the matter is that the people who are here on the forums are the same *****ing people who have been here for the past 6 months. Occasionally a random shows up and posts an unfavorable opinion and people chastise them into the ground for being an idiot instead of educating them or explaining to them why they're wrong in a constructive manner. Using polls here is like yelling your opinion in a vacuum. It's meaningless because you're only discussing that opinion with the same group of people over and over and over. 

 

I don't even bother joining these discussions any longer because the people who defend artillery have yet to provide a good logical explanation as to why it's in the game to begin with. Hell even the developers have said that it's in the game to perform a role (the frag grenade to dig people out of cover), but that role is never actually acted upon... 

 

How daft do you have to be to not realize this. Stop trolling and antagonizing other people for the benefit of your own self gratification. Grow the **** up.... 

 

You never fail to tickle me, Spartan.

 

I love the animal Farm mentality.  All pigs are equal - but some are more equal than others?  

 

What about folks who don't like Wheelies?  Should they be banned simply because folks do no like them?  

 

The FV4005 One-Shot-Wonder is routinely yelled at:  Poor Brits are gonna lose their pseudo-arty

 

Now, those damn auto-loaders.    Gotta get rid of those.  *I* don't like them.....

 



theSparatan117 #38 Posted Mar 23 2019 - 05:00

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View PostRaynorShyne, on Mar 22 2019 - 20:41, said:

 

You never fail to tickle me, Spartan.

 

I love the animal Farm mentality.  All pigs are equal - but some are more equal than others?  

 

What about folks who don't like Wheelies?  Should they be banned simply because folks do no like them?  

 

The FV4005 One-Shot-Wonder is routinely yelled at:  Poor Brits are gonna lose their pseudo-arty

 

Now, those damn auto-loaders.    Gotta get rid of those.  *I* don't like them.....

 

 

The problem with your statement is that all of those things can be countered by simply being smart about positioning. 

 

The only counter to artillery is to remain unspotted.... which means you have to literally be a terrible team player or a camping TD. 

 

Wheelies can be countered by cover. 4005 can be countered by cover. Auto-Loaders can be countered by... wait for it.... cover.... and a very fast repair kit. 

 

Very few locations in almost all of the maps provide cover for Artillery, and you cannot stay in them for the entire game and remain effective. 

 

Please, bring on the next argument. 



I_QQ_4_U #39 Posted Mar 23 2019 - 05:22

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View PostGuido1212, on Mar 23 2019 - 00:18, said:

Do you really believe the multiple changes over multiple years have been caused by a vocal minority?

 

It's obviously a minority since most people who play WoT play SPGs and when EU had a chance to vote on a rare premium tank they overwhelmingly voted for an SPG. Like any game it's a minority of players that use the forums, an even smaller amount that do more than just lurk and then a smaller amount still that fall on one side or another of any given topic. As far as in game goes MM is by far the most complained about part of the game though even that often seems to be just habit since most of the time I never see what the problem with MM is in any specific game.

 Judging by what SPG's where capable of in the past I can certainly see why they were nerfed at times but at this point they are really not much of a factor in the outcome of most games, they should just leave them as they are and get on with more important things.

 



JakeTheMystic #40 Posted Mar 23 2019 - 08:41

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View PosttheSparatan117, on Mar 22 2019 - 16:14, said:

 

Name for me a single streamer that enjoys being hit by arty.

Name for me a single player who does not play artillery, that enjoys playing alongside arty.

Name for me the number of times A MONTH you'll hear someone say "Yay, We have arty this game!" .... 

 

The fact that the majority of players say " F*** arty" in games but those same people never post here, should be deafening... because it means those people are likely going to quit without ever having voiced their opinion on a public forum. 

 

No one likes this mechanic except the people who play it. The fact of the matter is that the people who are here on the forums are the same *****ing people who have been here for the past 6 months. Occasionally a random shows up and posts an unfavorable opinion and people chastise them into the ground for being an idiot instead of educating them or explaining to them why they're wrong in a constructive manner. Using polls here is like yelling your opinion in a vacuum. It's meaningless because you're only discussing that opinion with the same group of people over and over and over. 

 

I don't even bother joining these discussions any longer because the people who defend artillery have yet to provide a good logical explanation as to why it's in the game to begin with. Hell even the developers have said that it's in the game to perform a role (the frag grenade to dig people out of cover), but that role is never actually acted upon... 

 

How daft do you have to be to not realize this. Stop trolling and antagonizing other people for the benefit of your own self gratification. Grow the **** up.... 

 

That's a whole lot of nonsense coming from someone who has only played mediums for the past 10k battles. 

 

I'm a heavy player, yes the stun is annoying, I'd prefer getting 1 shot once every 100 games to getting focused by 3 arty on the enemy team. ​Although that is still a rare occurrence, regardless of how many people claim to be "focused" by arty every game. 

 

Arty does fill the support role better than it previously did, the stun is ok as it helps arty players actually get assistance rather than dealing out the slams themselves and they hardly pen anything other than a lightly-armored unfortunate TD player. 

 

Arty is almost a necessity for clan wars though. Without it, breaking camps on El Halluf, Steppes, Malinovka, Prok, ect would be ten-fold harder. Tanks like the Cheftain can be easily balanced if kept under-wrap by one or multiple arty (without it, the cheftain is free to farm and I can personally get 3-4k a game fairly easily.) 

 

Arty serves a purpose and I feel its fine the way it is. It's been in the game since launch and you can't just remove it after its been in for so long and has embedded itself into the game (as I explained in my last post). Sure, change is good, but flat out nerfing the entire tank type to make them as useless as a paperweight is excessive. The BC arty alone has been useless since the stun mechanics implementation and has yet to be reworked in anyway. The GC and M53/55 are basically the only viable arty for CWs but people think that every arty should be nerfed to oblivion. 

 

People play arty for many reasons, I'd guess mostly because; To them, its a fun class to play. I used to play it every once and a while because I was playing at 10 fps around 200 ping, it was a whole lot easier to point and click than it was to try and drive around while crashing into every within a 20 mile radius. 

 

I get that people don't like arty, but the forums are basically just the extreme opinions who either completely hate the line or absolutely adore them (obviously it's mostly the first one). The people who mention it in game don't care about arty enough to voice their opinions regularly and they don't care enough to stop playing the game, so what is the harm? There is no difference between them saying "gg we lose" after seeing their team deployment vs "gg we lose, they have 3 arty".

 

What I find more frustrating are the players who troll their teammates or suicide off the start because of the tank they play. Just because you despise arty doesn't mean you can get your platoon buddies to go into games here and there killing off arty players because its your "civil duty". I've seen quite a few people do this and it infuriates me (I was even the target for the first time I tried to play an arty in a ranked battle). 

 

They could either take some of the stun away and boost the damage a bit, or the inverse. What they are currently doing, is nerfing the stun, nerfing the damage inside the splash radius, and nerfing the characteristics of tanks (at least until they can gather some information of how the nerfs affect the play.) 

 

Until those future changes come in though (maybe what, a year from now?) enjoy your paperweight when you try to get your campaign missions done with honors or when you team struggles to break a camp in clan wars because the enemy doesn't know any better. I know I've been scrambling to get my missions out of the way because they aren't going to waste time changing missions to accommodate for the changes, at least not within a reasonable time frame. 

 

It's like, 1am here and I've got nothing better to do, so I hope you enjoyed my rant. 






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