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Low Velocity Derp TDs


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AppleTank8 #1 Posted Mar 24 2019 - 01:32

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Looking at the Other Tank Game's Lorraine "SPG", I was wondering how the SPGs in WoT would play if they just got God Eye removed completely, and replaced with direct fire mode. Probably need a bit of buffs since many SPGs weren't exactly designed to get around the map quickly. They'd be no more annoying than TDs in that case, they have to be within 500m and have relatively direct LoS. They'd still explode if you sneeze at them. Make the splash more in line with other HE shells. They might even work with AP shells back, like a bunch of non-turreted FV4005s.

3bagsfull #2 Posted Mar 24 2019 - 01:50

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View PostAppleTank8, on Mar 24 2019 - 00:32, said:

Looking at the Other Tank Game's Lorraine "SPG", I was wondering how the SPGs in WoT would play if they just got God Eye removed completely, and replaced with direct fire mode. Probably need a bit of buffs since many SPGs weren't exactly designed to get around the map quickly. They'd be no more annoying than TDs in that case, they have to be within 500m and have relatively direct LoS. They'd still explode if you sneeze at them. Make the splash more in line with other HE shells. They might even work with AP shells back, like a bunch of non-turreted FV4005s.

 

View PostAppleTank8, on Mar 24 2019 - 00:32, said:

Looking at the Other Tank Game's Lorraine "SPG", I was wondering how the SPGs in WoT would play if they just got God Eye removed completely, and replaced with direct fire mode. Probably need a bit of buffs since many SPGs weren't exactly designed to get around the map quickly. They'd be no more annoying than TDs in that case, they have to be within 500m and have relatively direct LoS. They'd still explode if you sneeze at them. Make the splash more in line with other HE shells. They might even work with AP shells back, like a bunch of non-turreted FV4005s.

 

The issues with Artillery in this game is the mechanic.    Putting the mechanic in the hands of a human player turns Artillery into a SNIPER class instead of a support class.    Frontlines has it close with Airstrikes and Arty Strikes, the issue in that mode is simply how easy it is to have 1/2 the team all with that capability.    Atry strikes should be random events called in by tanks that are otherwise active participants in the game - not real players sitting at the back of the map dumping on other players with impunity.  

 

You will find few if any games where it is acceptable to be wiped out by another human player you cannot engage whatsoever.   



9999bc #3 Posted Mar 24 2019 - 01:53

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Well Foch 155 has a 3-shot autoloader with about 300mm pen and 750 alpha. If BC SPG were to be balanced like it’s counter part, it will have something even better consider its lack of armor and HP.

I guess BC SPG will be 350 mm pen and 1500 alpha, kind of similar to FV 183.

Now CGC has a even bigger gun, so it will be even better than the Death Star. Maybe a pen of 400 mm and alpha of 2500?

T92?

NUKE!!!!

tanopasman62 #4 Posted Mar 24 2019 - 01:58

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A direct fire T92 HMC with its old alpha back would be certainly interesting. :justwait:



fire_raven #5 Posted Mar 24 2019 - 02:02

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View Post3bagsfull, on Mar 23 2019 - 16:50, said:

 

 

The issues with Artillery in this game is the mechanic.    Putting the mechanic in the hands of a human player turns Artillery into a SNIPER class instead of a support class.    Frontlines has it close with Airstrikes and Arty Strikes, the issue in that mode is simply how easy it is to have 1/2 the team all with that capability.    Atry strikes should be random events called in by tanks that are otherwise active participants in the game - not real players sitting at the back of the map dumping on other players with impunity.  

 

You will find few if any games where it is acceptable to be wiped out by another human player you cannot engage whatsoever.   

 

You must be new to online gaming. There are tons of games where you cannot engage any enemy player that is shooting you at range. The same thing in every case, you have to close in to get them. 
  Can you guys come up with an original whine? It's the same old crap since beta with the only new thing added is crying about stun (which let's face it, y'all did that to yourself) 

Edited by fire_raven, Mar 24 2019 - 02:03.


fire_raven #6 Posted Mar 24 2019 - 02:05

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 I loved using my hummel as a TD back when it was top tier and actually had speed. I actually got 2 kills in my Hummel earlier today doing direct fire and almost a 3rd but it was a clown car which magically survives pointblank hits from arty with no problem (physics is still not their strong suit, I see) 

Gothraul #7 Posted Mar 24 2019 - 02:06

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There was an banned mod that allowed regular aiming for sky cancer, would bring some life to the class and would be fair use given that there is the bento boxes as well Russian derps already running around.

9999bc #8 Posted Mar 24 2019 - 02:12

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TD mode was more common in the past. Then WG nerfed view range, speed, pen, AP shell, etc.

I once was in a game and watched a SU122A ( tier 5 arty) killed 5 tanks in TD mode and won the game.

AppleTank8 #9 Posted Mar 24 2019 - 02:19

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View Post3bagsfull, on Mar 23 2019 - 16:50, said:

You will find few if any games where it is acceptable to be wiped out by another human player you cannot engage whatsoever.   

 

That's called the Sniper Class. Which exists in a whole ton of games. TF2 and Overwatch both have pretty prominent ones. 

 

Now, TF2 has a support class that heals, but I question how one would play as a repair tank with minimal armament, if any.

View Post9999bc, on Mar 23 2019 - 16:53, said:

Well Foch 155 has a 3-shot autoloader with about 300mm pen and 750 alpha. If BC SPG were to be balanced like it’s counter part, it will have something even better consider its lack of armor and HP.

I guess BC SPG will be 350 mm pen and 1500 alpha, kind of similar to FV 183.

Now CGC has a even bigger gun, so it will be even better than the Death Star. Maybe a pen of 400 mm and alpha of 2500?

T92?

NUKE!!!!

I dunno, I always wanted to try using the BC 58 as a T49, which is reallly fast, and something French arty specialize in and they could get buffed in. Didn't actually get that SPG when 9.18 hit, so rip 155mm HEAT memes.


Edited by AppleTank8, Mar 24 2019 - 02:22.


AppleTank8 #10 Posted Mar 24 2019 - 02:24

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View Posttanopasman62, on Mar 23 2019 - 16:58, said:

A direct fire T92 HMC with its old alpha back would be certainly interesting. :justwait:

 

Indeed. It would have to risk horrific accuracy though. Biggest risk, biggest reward.

tanopasman62 #11 Posted Mar 24 2019 - 02:31

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View PostAppleTank8, on Mar 24 2019 - 02:24, said:

 

Indeed. It would have to risk horrific accuracy though. Biggest risk, biggest reward.

 

We could think of it as an unarmored, big gunned JPz E 100.

Jryder #12 Posted Mar 24 2019 - 02:34

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Sniper=direct fire. If he can see/shoot me, I can shoot him. The odds may be long, but it is possible.

Arty= Indirect fire. He can shoot me from behind buildings/mountains, etc., I CANNOT return fire because I have no LOS.

 

Trying to equate sniping with indirect arty fire is a straw man argument, cherry picking one aspect, (sniper/arty can see the target but target can't immediately see them) while ignoring the most relevant point (Sniper and target both have direct LOS to each other while arty has an indirect view of his target, who has no capability to view the arty).



9999bc #13 Posted Mar 24 2019 - 02:54

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View PostAppleTank8, on Mar 24 2019 - 02:19, said:

I dunno, I always wanted to try using the BC 58 as a T49, which is reallly fast, and something French arty specialize in and they could get buffed in. Didn't actually get that SPG when 9.18 hit, so rip 155mm HEAT memes.

Nope, BC arty is terrible at close range due to 0 gun depression. 

 

I once encountered a T95 at end game. I was able to get to its side and keep pace. However, we were in a small alley on Himmersoldf and I have no room to pull away from T95 when my gun reloaded. To my horror, BC arty can’t aim its gun at T95 because it has 0 gun depression.  I was not able to hit T95 and lost the duel. 


Edited by 9999bc, Mar 24 2019 - 04:33.


Mikosah #14 Posted Mar 24 2019 - 03:46

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I've long said that tanks like the KV-2 and Hetzer are artillery as it should have been all along.

HOTA_CHATON #15 Posted Mar 24 2019 - 03:50

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View Post3bagsfull, on Mar 23 2019 - 18:50, said:

Frontlines has it close with Airstrikes and Arty Strikes, the issue in that mode is simply how easy it is to have 1/2 the team all with that capability.    Atry strikes should be random events called in by tanks that are otherwise active participants in the game - not real players sitting at the back of the map dumping on other players with impunity.  

Frontlines has way to many arty and air strikes available for all players.  End of discussion.  As for normal play on the live server, Nyet.  Arty is a small problem compared to way to many background snipers to include TD's and other assorted vehicles that are not able to slug it out on the frontlines.  



AppleTank8 #16 Posted Mar 24 2019 - 18:44

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View PostJryder, on Mar 23 2019 - 17:34, said:

Sniper=direct fire. If he can see/shoot me, I can shoot him. The odds may be long, but it is possible.

Arty= Indirect fire. He can shoot me from behind buildings/mountains, etc., I CANNOT return fire because I have no LOS.

 

Trying to equate sniping with indirect arty fire is a straw man argument, cherry picking one aspect, (sniper/arty can see the target but target can't immediately see them) while ignoring the most relevant point (Sniper and target both have direct LOS to each other while arty has an indirect view of his target, who has no capability to view the arty).

 

You ... can't really do anything about a good Sniper in TF2 except hide behind cover or move a hell of a lot. Everyone else has most of their weapons work best at close to mid range, and become near useless at long range. (Minigun, Shotguns, all of Demoman's weapons, pistols can vaguely tickle). Meanwhile the Sniper can basically blast 150 - 400 damage headshots no matter the distance.

 

Meanwhile, the Demoman can actually do indirect fire if you have a good idea of where the enemy is often going (a capture point or whatever), and if they know the distances, they can flak burst the place from behind a wall. Heck, some derp guns in WoT can already do this, the 3-inch and 3.7 inch mortars of the UK line having such low velocity they make topspin curves onto the top of tanks. This would make these TD/SPGs aiming to really be only able to hit slow moving targets because the arc and velocity would cause massive problems on judging lead.

 

Technically, every gun in WoT can do indirect fire because of shell drop, but the enforced range assist doesn't really let you aim at something below a hill unless you get something like the Ballistic Aim Mod. I got a 105mm HE derp to loop over a set of traintracks once on someone I could barely see.

 

edit: It would be interesting if instead of stun nerfing the red guy, it buffed the green guys shooting at the tank somehow. Maybe give them max damage rolls or something.


Edited by AppleTank8, Mar 24 2019 - 19:11.





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