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How about an explanation to customers, Wargaming?

matchmaker MM Match maker Cabbagemechanic Wargaming imbalance not balanced

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ez_money #21 Posted Mar 24 2019 - 23:54

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Unless you are a "good" player and are platooning with other "good" clanmates, you get what you get in randoms. A good platoon can carry a team (done it many times), but if you are solo...well there you go. You have to man up or hope someone else does. MM doesn't give a flying flip about stats of the players...I too wish it did, but that's WoT. I have been in several clans (some of them very good, others not so much) and platooning with very skilled players really helps. But after a 4+ year break, I came back and now do nothing bit solopubbing. Can I carry the team? Yes but very, very rarely. But then again an orange or red tomato on the team will also actually carry us sometimes. It's the nature of "random" battles.

 

That being said, after almost five months being back my WR has only dropped about 1% after going from nothing but REL_3 platoons and playing in the very best Tank Companies, to going totally solo. If you do what needs to be done in battle based on your vehicle and the team situation the wins will come.



_Tsavo_ #22 Posted Mar 25 2019 - 00:01

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View PostChaosKampf, on Mar 24 2019 - 16:15, said:

Sui-scouting does no good when the other guys on your team won't come out from behind their rocks long enough to shoot at anything.

 

 

Suicide scouting is the dumbest, most infallibly potato scouting method there is.  Reserved for bads and terri-bads only.

moon111 #23 Posted Mar 25 2019 - 00:02

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What you have to do is look in your garage and ask yourself for every tank, can i win 29 v.s. 1 in this.  If the answer is no, dismiss the crew, sell the tank.  Do not play anything that relies on others.  The flood gates and advice about not rushing up the tiers are gone.  Mature players have switched to ships.  

ez_money #24 Posted Mar 25 2019 - 00:09

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View Postmoon111, on Mar 24 2019 - 17:02, said:

What you have to do is look in your garage and ask yourself for every tank, can i win 29 v.s. 1 in this.  If the answer is no, dismiss the crew, sell the tank.  Do not play anything that relies on others.  The flood gates and advice about not rushing up the tiers are gone.  Mature players have switched to ships. 

 

^^^Agreed. Grinding a tank for constant losses is a losing proposition. Pick the right vehicle, understand what it can and can't do, weigh the options, and play what works.

YANKEE137 #25 Posted Mar 25 2019 - 00:09

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See? I ruined it for everyone.

Crypticshock #26 Posted Mar 25 2019 - 00:19

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"The game is so unfair, it needs to be fair. Win % should be in the decimals. If I have a 51.33333326% then I should be faced against another player, in the same tank, with the same crew... that has a 51.33333326% as well. I will wait 31 minutes until the match maker finds the upmost balanced game..." and then watch as the team loses 15:5 still.

 

A person with 51% over thousands of games and a person with 53% over thousands of games can be against each other thousands of times and the results will be different to a small fraction of games won vs games lost.

 

...anyway; Random Battles are random. It does not care how big or flaccid your ePeen is. If you want "fair" matches with more closely "skilled" competition play Clan Wars/Battles and/or Ranked Battles. Just be aware that 15:0 can and will still happen there too.

 

Block Quote

 Sui-scouting does no good when the other guys on your team won't come out from behind their rocks long enough to shoot at anything.

 

Sui-scouting is never good anyway. The game is decided on the whole fact of having guns in the combat. Putting yourself in a position where you can not escape is asinine and hurts the team more than people not shooting your suicide run. A light tank can be deadly in late game.

 

Block Quote

 I do well above the average rate of damage when placed with a team that knows what it is doing. Expert player? Far from it, and never will be... But I know the mechanics, and how to play the game far better than the 47% W/R I'm stuck at.

 

Uhm. No. You are improving but your last 1000 games are still near the same win %. Seeking answers from MM or your team isn't the answer. You are the constant. I'd maybe stay at a lower tier until you are making a difference there. Stay around Tier 6 or 7 for a while. ...and drop any mods that change your mindset going into the game. I used to use the rainbow tank list with % to win - the best move for myself was getting rid of those things. Read the tank list for both teams at the start and pick your starting position based off that.

 



90210_Hero #27 Posted Mar 25 2019 - 00:26

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This is what makes people want to have XVM banned.

dunniteowl #28 Posted Mar 25 2019 - 04:07

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I am not going to quote the OP in any fashion.  That's been done sufficiently.  Read this: The WoT Welcome Package (version 1).

 

When I was new to the game, relatively this is where I was:

dunniteowl
From 10/27/2014 10:41 PM PST
To 10/05/2015 3:09 AM PST
  Statistics from 10/27/2014 10:41 PM PST Statistics from 10/05/2015 3:09 AM PST Difference
Battles 2644 6131 ▲ 3487
Avg. Tier NAN - ■ NAN
Victories 1268 47.96% 2974 48.51% ▲ 1706 ▲ 0.55%
Defeats 1332 50.38% 3085 50.32% ▲ 1753 ▼ -0.06%
Draws 44 1.66% 72 1.17% ▲ 28 ▼ -0.49%
Survived 758 28.67% 1680 27.4% ▲ 922 ▼ -1.27%
Destroyed 1178 0.45 2947 0.48 ▲ 1769 ▲ 0.03
K/D Ratio 0.62 0.66 ▲ 0.04
Detected 1753 0.66 4605 0.75 ▲ 2852 ▲ 0.09
Damage 354964 134.25 1283669 209.37 ▲ 928705 ▲ 75.12
Capture Points 2465 0.93 3672 0.6 ▲ 1207 ▼ -0.33
Defense Points 1953 0.74 4322 0.7 ▲ 2369 ▼ -0.04
Experience 451193 170.65 1381460 225.32 ▲ 930267 ▲ 54.67
WN8 NAN NAN ■ NAN

 

At just after that second date (10/05/2015), I had been playing for just over a year and my computer, unknown to me, was about to die.

 

As you can see, my stats at that time were not much better than yours.

 

I put the WWP together from my efforts to learn more about the game.  I started my journey at about 6687 matches, when at that time, my WR was 48.23%, which is between those two numbers.  In short, I was a tomato and didn't really know it.  When I discovered the truth of this, I also discovered I HAD stats.  Up until then I had not really explored my progress beyond what I saw in the After Battle Report.

 

The WWP is the distillation of the most important information for a player to learn in order to improve their game.  That distillation is brought to you by someone who sifted through hundreds, possibly thousands of forum posts before ever responding once on these forums.  It is the Core Essential Information for any player that wishes to improve.  I winnowed down this information so that others would not have to do so.  Why would you wish to repeat all that researching, right?

 

You can blame your teams, like I did before this time.  You can blame MM, RNG, Gold Rounds, Seal Clubbers, Platooning Stat Padders, etc. just like I did before I realized I was a tomato.  You can blame anything you want if it makes you feel better.

 

But let me ask you this:  Has any of that blame on other things improved your game play?  Has it increased your enjoyment of the game?  Has it resulted in a more successful progress?

 

I, too, laid blame on all manner of things before I gave myself a good, stern talking to.

 

Blame is for losers. Blame is the path to giving yourself a "Get Out of Effort, Free" Card.  Blame prevents you from taking responsibility for your own improvement.

 

 

This is your good, stern talking to.  Let go of blame.  It is a waste of your mental energy.  It is a distraction from using that wonderful gift of a brain you have to decide that, if the situation isn't going to get any better, than you had either get out or get better yourself.

 

So it's that time in the talk to ask:  What are you going to do?  You going to get out or get better?  There is a third option: You can continue to do the same thing you have been doing and see if that changes anything.  Just remember, the definition of stupid or insane is doing the same thing over and again while expecting different results.

 

[EDIT]  This is a snapshot of where I currently stand.  I've had a few good days, but for the most part I sit around 54% WR on average.  Just thought you should know, this is what you can expect if you decide that you're going to take the reins in your hands and be responsible for your own improvement:

 

dunniteowl
WN8890
Win Rate50.88%
Recent WN8938
Recent WR52.75%
WN Rank#153393
  Total Past 24 Hours Past 7 days Past 30 days 60 days 1000 Battles
Battles 27131 42 194 682 1743 1018
Avg. Tier 4.52 5.26 5.16 5.03 4.97 5
Victories 13803 50.88% 26 61.9% 105 54.12% 360 52.79% 895 51.35% 537 52.75%
Defeats 13076 48.2% 16 38.1% 86 44.33% 314 46.04% 824 47.27% 469 46.07%
Draws 252 0.93% 0 0% 3 1.55% 8 1.17% 24 1.38% 12 1.18%
Survived 9223 33.99% 20 47.62% 90 46.39% 290 42.52% 1 0.06% 430 42.24%
Destroyed 19731 0.73 26 0.62 164 0.85 510 0.75 1407 0.81 786 0.77
K/D Ratio 1.1 1.18 1.58 1.3 0.81 1.34
Detected 14619 0.54 10 0.24 44 0.23 158 0.23 409 0.23 261 0.26
Damage 9910877 365.3 20803 495.31 95313 491.3 306905 450.01 780048 447.53 451689 443.7
Capture Points 11382 0.42 54 1.29 114 0.59 482 0.71 872 0.5 692 0.68
Defense Points 21362 0.79 57 1.36 476 2.45 825 1.21 1715 0.98 1152 1.13
Experience 7707568 284.09 12509 297.83 57245 295.08 190843 279.83 482731 276.95 283889 278.87
WN8 890 1049 1063 933 938 938
Period Breakdown   Show Show Show Show Show

 

I play by what I call: The Mantra For Play:

 

     Survive (if you don't survive you cannot)

     Do Damage (if you can't or don't do this then find another way to)

     Help Your Team (if you can't or won't do this, then it will be harder to)

 

     Win (which is never guaranteed)

 

I USE what's in the WWP.  I recommend what I use when I know what I use WORKS.  This WORKS.

 

[/EDIT]

If you truly want your situation to get better, read the WWP.  Learn the game mechanics, how to care for and feed your Crew and learn from those video links and take responsibility for your own improvement.

 

GL, HF & HSYBF!
OvO

 


Edited by dunniteowl, Mar 25 2019 - 05:40.


Mr_Nothing #29 Posted Mar 25 2019 - 04:26

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View PostChaosKampf, on Mar 24 2019 - 19:55, said:

Played 9 "Random" Matches this morning before getting enraged and quitting. And no, this isn't just today. It is a constant reality of playing your otherwise fine game. I just finally got mad enough to actually write down the matchmaker results for once...

 

 

Match 1

Green- 58%-52% -rest 48% and under

Red- 57%-56%-55%-56%-51% -rest 49% and under

 

Match 2

Green- 53%-52% -rest of team 48%and under

Red- 52%-52%-53%-52%-52%

 

 

Match 3

Green- one 57% -rest of team 49% and under

Red- 55%-54%-53%55%-58%-52%-52%-52% (especially ridiculous MM'ing)

 

Match 4

Green- 52%-55%-53%- Rest 49% and under

Red- 56%-57%-53%-50%-52%-51%-52%  (Is this a joke to you guys?)

 

Match 5

Green- 54%-56%-52%-53%-53%-51%-52%

Red- 51%-54%-54% -rest of team under 50% 

 

Match 6

Green- 52%-50% -rest of team 49% and under

Red- 52%-54%-52%-54%-56%....

 

IMO, this is causing far more issues than the 3-5-7 thing.

 

 

You have no understanding how random works, it doesn't care about win rates or wn8. and o no! inexperienced people! how dare they not be experienced at the game as soon as they download the game!

Edited by Mr_Nothing, Mar 25 2019 - 04:27.


ChaosKampf #30 Posted Mar 25 2019 - 21:42

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View Postkittikat, on Mar 24 2019 - 14:23, said:

 

Imbalance of what?

It's not imbalanced as far as putting same-level bodies against same-level bodies.
That's all matchmaking does.

About as RNG as you're going to get.

 

 

And you can look at those numbers I listed and say that that's Random? Not hardly. If the matchmaker were truly random, you wouldn't see 40%+ steamroller matches. The matchmaker is doing what it is programmed to do. Why? I have no idea.



ChaosKampf #31 Posted Mar 25 2019 - 21:45

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View PostMr_Nothing, on Mar 24 2019 - 21:26, said:

 

You have no understanding how random works, it doesn't care about win rates or wn8. and o no! inexperienced people! how dare they not be experienced at the game as soon as they download the game!

 

Again, how can you look at stacked odds so many times in a row and believe that it's Random? Nothing random about sticking so many better than average players on one side, so many times in a row. There is nothing random about it.

 



Stigian #32 Posted Mar 25 2019 - 22:56

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View Postdmb47, on Mar 24 2019 - 21:24, said:

Well, I have played 22 games so far this weekend and been bottom tier--21 times......So I do not have any idea what metrics they track for MM, but it sure as HELL does not try to balance your 3-5-7 out at all....

 

Its trash, everyone knows its trash, WG knows its trash, what people don't know is they could CARE LESS about it. They do what ever they want to do. You will play their way until they decide different. The only one true way to alter the game is to get the bean counters (which rule the world btw) involved. Then things change and the devs have ZERO choice but to change it or be fired. Unless of course you have leadership in the company like sooooo many other game companies that always think they're right, and their way is the only way it can and should be done, then you have is a company that is "Out of Businesses" because of their poor choices.

 

Look up a game called Ryzom, ran by a French company that was doing great! The player base loved the game and said it was a marvel with new ideas and a fresh approach to MMOs, then the devs came up with this BRILLIANT idea to do a rebalance that basically let lvl 1 mobs be able to kill you. The community pleaded with them to not make those changes, but oohh the devs just knew they knew all and noone could ever be smarter than them. So they made the changes anyway. In less than 3 months the company folded and sold.

 

Moral of the story, and why devs need reminded of this is beyond me, but devs make games that people WANT TO PLAY, which leads to making money, devs are tasked with 1 thing, creating ENJOYMENT. When they lose sight of this, the game fails. The gaming industry is littered with companies that forgot this and even the biggest giants get reminded of this one single never dying fact. Even Blizzard is suffering as they too have decided they know better than the customer that chooses to pay for their product.

 

Making games is not easy, but it is extremely simple. Create enjoyment for your customers and the money will come. When your forums are literally filled with people screaming that they hate aspects of your game, it should be your absolute top priority to resolve those issues.


Edited by Stigian, Mar 26 2019 - 00:34.


Nixeldon #33 Posted Mar 26 2019 - 05:00

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View PostChaosKampf, on Mar 25 2019 - 15:45, said:

 

Again, how can you look at stacked odds so many times in a row and believe that it's Random? Nothing random about sticking so many better than average players on one side, so many times in a row. There is nothing random about it.

 

Are you implying that your extreme ignorance of random processes isn't blissful?



Altwar #34 Posted Mar 26 2019 - 05:22

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View Postfodder49s, on Mar 24 2019 - 14:02, said:

Ditch xvm, sir. Nothing good comes of it. I actually saw a teammate drown a full health type 5 this morning because he didn't like what xvm was telling him. You don't want to wind up like him, do you?

 

 

If the OP becomes enraged after just 9 battles, I'd second that suggestion. 

 

XVM can be helpful :  main uses I have for it are for the auto transfer of crews between tanks and custom team panels so I can more easily distinguish team class compositions (because I find the gray and tan icons a bit difficult to read). 

 

XVM can be entertaining:  I like looking at the colorful stats of my tanks in the garage to easily see which tanks I do better in.

 

XVM can be damaging:   if you look at win chances and believe in them, you can be demoralized before the battle even starts or treat your opponents unevenly rather than regarding each and every one as the danger to you that they really are.  You can also over or underestimate your allies as you never know if the next battle is the one where a normally bad player carries or a normally good player performs poorly.

 

If a player is using XVM for the third use, that player really is better off tossing XVM and have a more blissful experience.

 



kittikat #35 Posted Mar 26 2019 - 14:13

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View PostChaosKampf, on Mar 25 2019 - 16:42, said:

 

 

And you can look at those numbers I listed and say that that's Random? Not hardly. If the matchmaker were truly random, you wouldn't see 40%+ steamroller matches. The matchmaker is doing what it is programmed to do. Why? I have no idea.

 

You and I get the same types of matches. The difference between you and me, though, is while you whine and lament, I'm over here having my way with your horses and riding away on your women, crushing my enemies and watching them driven before me.

 

What makes me better at tanks than you? Even my recent trash games that I am having cause I'm playing with a new player are better than your average.

Again: MY WORST GAMES ARE STILL BETTER THAN YOUR BEST.

It's not the game or MM that's causing you so much pain and suffering. It's your inability to see that you're the lowest common denominator in all your issues.

 

There's nothing to fix here. I'd say "except for you" but you're well beyond the point of any sort of saving in this game. So just chalk it up to some conspiratorial slant that the game has coded in specifically against you and play the game knowing you're forever the underappreciated underdog. or whatever sad song it is that gets you through the day.



the_Deadly_Bulb #36 Posted Mar 26 2019 - 20:09

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OP, neither the WR nor the wn8 provide any additional armour to the player with them.

Rounds will pen  them all the same.

 

Are tehre players ion teh game better than you? yup sure are. They're also on both teams not just the other one.

 

Want to get better?

Quit posting snivel BS on the forum and get back into battle.

The more you practice putting holes in the OPFOR (regardless of their WR or stats) the better you'll get at it.

The better you get at it the more you will win.

 

No player ever boosted their stats crying about MM or any other aspect of the game.

MM is the same for everyone.

Not everyone sucks so...

 

 

... suck it up and shoot that cannon! :izmena:

 



the_Deadly_Bulb #37 Posted Mar 26 2019 - 20:14

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View Postkittikat, on Mar 26 2019 - 05:13, said:

 

You and I get the same types of matches. The difference between you and me, though, is while you whine and lament, I'm over here having my way with your horses and riding away on your women, crushing my enemies and watching them driven before me.

 

What makes me better at tanks than you? Even my recent trash games that I am having cause I'm playing with a new player are better than your average.

Again: MY WORST GAMES ARE STILL BETTER THAN YOUR BEST.

It's not the game or MM that's causing you so much pain and suffering. It's your inability to see that you're the lowest common denominator in all your issues.

 

There's nothing to fix here. I'd say "except for you" but you're well beyond the point of any sort of saving in this game. So just chalk it up to some conspiratorial slant that the game has coded in specifically against you and play the game knowing you're forever the underappreciated underdog. or whatever sad song it is that gets you through the day.

 

The trinity of victory.

 

 

 


Edited by the_Deadly_Bulb, Mar 26 2019 - 20:16.


__xXKingXx__ #38 Posted Mar 26 2019 - 20:29

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View PostStigian, on Mar 25 2019 - 18:56, said:

 

Its trash, everyone knows its trash, WG knows its trash, what people don't know is they could CARE LESS about it. They do what ever they want to do. You will play their way until they decide different. The only one true way to alter the game is to get the bean counters (which rule the world btw) involved. Then things change and the devs have ZERO choice but to change it or be fired. Unless of course you have leadership in the company like sooooo many other game companies that always think they're right, and their way is the only way it can and should be done, then you have is a company that is "Out of Businesses" because of their poor choices.

 

Look up a game called Ryzom, ran by a French company that was doing great! The player base loved the game and said it was a marvel with new ideas and a fresh approach to MMOs, then the devs came up with this BRILLIANT idea to do a rebalance that basically let lvl 1 mobs be able to kill you. The community pleaded with them to not make those changes, but oohh the devs just knew they knew all and noone could ever be smarter than them. So they made the changes anyway. In less than 3 months the company folded and sold.

 

Moral of the story, and why devs need reminded of this is beyond me, but devs make games that people WANT TO PLAY, which leads to making money, devs are tasked with 1 thing, creating ENJOYMENT. When they lose sight of this, the game fails. The gaming industry is littered with companies that forgot this and even the biggest giants get reminded of this one single never dying fact. Even Blizzard is suffering as they too have decided they know better than the customer that chooses to pay for their product.

 

Making games is not easy, but it is extremely simple. Create enjoyment for your customers and the money will come. When your forums are literally filled with people screaming that they hate aspects of your game, it should be your absolute top priority to resolve those issues.

 

+1 my friend

Copacetic #39 Posted Mar 26 2019 - 21:44

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View PostChaosKampf, on Mar 24 2019 - 21:05, said:

 

As I said, hard to do when your team is filled with players who are so inexperienced that they don't even understand the role of their particular Tank, much less where to go on the maps, or anything else. I realize they have to learn how to play the game somehow, but there doesn't have to be ten or more of them on the same team.

 

I do well above the average rate of damage when placed with a team that knows what it is doing. Expert player? Far from it, and never will be... But I know the mechanics, and how to play the game far better than the 47% W/R I'm stuck at.

 

Nah..your win% is what your win8 justifies.



kittikat #40 Posted Mar 27 2019 - 13:44

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View Postthe_Deadly_Bulb, on Mar 26 2019 - 15:14, said:

 

The trinity of victory.

 

 

 

 

Don't forget...







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