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Denazifying German tier 10s

german tech tree redesign buff nerf new vehicles wot world of tanks

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fire_raven #41 Posted Apr 02 2019 - 21:47

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View Postrogombor, on Apr 01 2019 - 07:47, said:

 

They didn't lose because of their tanks being inferior. As Stalin famously said, quantity is a quality of its own. There's nothing a Tiger could do when surrounded by 7 Shermans even if each Sherman was inferior in every single way imaginable.

As for the missiles, WG has always been opposed to even feature smoothbore guns. You're trying to bring modern mechanics to a game that is mechanically based on the WWII era.

 

   I think what he is getting at is since Germany lost the war and was split in two, their tank line effectively stopped at 1945. And then they jump ahead several years but meant many of their higher tier tanks are taking on ones 10-15-20 yrs ahead of it. Look at the German Heavies vs most other nations at the upper tiers. Germans are from before 1945. Most other tier 10's are from at least the 50's and often incorporated things learned from captured German tanks. 
  And Japan gave up their military almost entirely after WW2 which limits their line. Everyone else continued development. 

DrB33t #42 Posted Apr 03 2019 - 02:00

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View PostPrimarchRogalDorn, on Apr 02 2019 - 18:33, said:

How about no? You're suggesting adding in tanks that would be functionally immune to nearly everything that's fired at them frontally, would have insanely good mobility, accuracy that would make the Grille 15 feel like a howitzer, and shells that would effectively ignore all armor.

 

You realize that WOT is a game right? Every tank in this game has worse accuracy than its real life counterpart. The MBTs I am suggesting would have the same nerfed accuracy. Speed would also be slower than IRL. As for armor they would be penetrable from the side and the LFP (except for XM1 and Leopard 2AV which have huge LFPs).


Edited by DrB33t, Apr 03 2019 - 02:01.


PrimarchRogalDorn #43 Posted Apr 03 2019 - 08:22

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View PostDrB33t, on Apr 02 2019 - 20:00, said:

 

You realize that WOT is a game right? Every tank in this game has worse accuracy than its real life counterpart. The MBTs I am suggesting would have the same nerfed accuracy. Speed would also be slower than IRL. As for armor they would be penetrable from the side and the LFP (except for XM1 and Leopard 2AV which have huge LFPs).


Yes, I know WoT is a game. My point was even though those may be "weak" for MBTs, they're still much stronger than anything that's currently in the game at the moment. If you want to use modern-ish MBTs go play Armored Warfare, they don't belong in WoT.



SteelRonin #44 Posted Apr 03 2019 - 16:15

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Why are the US players so literal to understand the things?.

 

Is so clear what the OP is trying to say, and we all know the German tanks are overtiered and "buffed" to stay in a tier where they don't belong......like HP and guns. And even with that "buff" they are powercreeped. Tiger 1 with 1500 HP is an example, they buffed the HP of the tank to make it Tier 7, but we all understand the tank fits better in Tier 6 with less HP of course.

 

The German tree is outdated, bad implemented with a logic that is not logical anymore......WG has a logic of trying to maintain the characteristics of a tank to the entire line, in other words if the line is a "super-heavy" line, the tier 10 can't be a soft armor tank....Examples:

 

- Replacement of FV183 by the Bagder to "maintain" the essense of the line.

- Removal of SU-122-54 to maintain the essence of the "rear gun mounted" line

 

For that "logic" we can't see a german M47 Patton at tier 10 when the tier 9 is the Maus.....

 

They need to change that "logic" in order to improve the lines....I don't care if my armored tier 8 HT will turn into a tier 9 MT and then a tier 10 HT with paper armor.



Personality #45 Posted Apr 03 2019 - 17:15

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>german tanks are overbuffed

TOP FKING lmbo. Never had I seen such delusion since the 2016 election polls



AppleTank8 #46 Posted Apr 03 2019 - 17:21

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He's referring to how many german tanks are buffed to justify being in a higher tier. poor word choice

AppleTank8 #47 Posted Apr 03 2019 - 18:15

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in retrospect, many tanks get far more powerful modules than their hulls would suggest. Hellcat used the 76mm. Pershing was only really an armor upgrade over the T20. M4 used the 75mm for many years, more of a sidegrade of the Lee because the whole point was that gun in a turret.

 

On topic:

1) Is the VKA really supposed to be running around with the short 88?

2) What gun is the E50 proto supposed to be using? 75mm seems a bit low for T8.

3) RIP toaster?

4) Disagree with the arty and missiles, doesn't really fit the game. Beyond visual range makes it feel too accurate if guided, and closer seems too fragile.



DrB33t #48 Posted Apr 03 2019 - 23:11

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View PostAppleTank8, on Apr 03 2019 - 17:15, said:

1) Is the VKA really supposed to be running around with the short 88?

2) What gun is the E50 proto supposed to be using? 75mm seems a bit low for T8.

3) RIP toaster?

4) Disagree with the arty and missiles, doesn't really fit the game. Beyond visual range makes it feel too accurate if guided, and closer seems too fragile.

 

1) Yes. It would be at tier 7 not 8. Not every tank needs to be good but IMO the Tiger, Panther, Tiger 2, and E-series should be good because they are famous. In my tech tree the Grosstrakor (should actually be the Neubaufahrzeug), DW2, VK H/P/M, Lion, VK 45.02A/B, Panther 2, and E50 prototype are all designed as bad/free xp tanks. I think that any tank still experimental (VK) can be written off as bad because nobody really cares about it.

2) 75mm might be too low for tier 8 but it's meant to be a free exp tank. Not all the tanks can be good.

3) The toaster doesn't really fit because in reality it was an AA gun. It could only work as part of a separate Ardelt/Borsig/WT Pz IV/Grille 15 line because it fits the open hull layout. The Marder and the Nashorn are extremely similar and it would be weird to have them connected with the Toaster.

4) In terms of arty those are really the only two options (other than American artillery which is already in the game). The Gvozdika fits the German Leopard-esque play style nicely. Perhaps WG can find sekrit dokuments which prove the existence of domestically produced German artillery during the early/mid cold war. I know they built an AA gun (Geopard) on Leopard's chassis so maybe they did the same with artillery.

 

-edit-

I actually found one:

Spoiler

 

As for TD's there do exist some alternatives (although their historical authenticity is dubious):

https://www.snafu-so...er-concept.html

https://www.artstati...m/artwork/5J0KA

 

There also exists the VT tank (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT_tank) but I abandoned this because IMO the duel cannons just look stupid. I wonder if the VT tank had a single gun variant at least in paper.

 

I would have added the Kanonenjagdpanzer but this is already in the game at tier 8 and I don't know how it would be possible to introduce it as a tier 10.

 

 

View PostSteelRonin, on Apr 03 2019 - 15:15, said:

For that "logic" we can't see a german M47 Patton at tier 10 when the tier 9 is the Maus.....

 

They need to change that "logic" in order to improve the lines....I don't care if my armored tier 8 HT will turn into a tier 9 MT and then a tier 10 HT with paper armor.

 

I would not support an American tank larping as a German tank if it already exists in the American tech tree. The only exception for this might be the MBT70/KPz 70 which could be in both tech trees as the Americans had a 152mm while the German's had a 120mm.



PrimarchRogalDorn #49 Posted Apr 03 2019 - 23:57

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No Kpz 70s had the 120

DrB33t #50 Posted Apr 04 2019 - 00:26

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The Germans preferred the 120mm. Final product probably would have had 120mm. Just call it the KPz 70 (120) or give it the option of upgrading to the 120mm.

PrimarchRogalDorn #51 Posted Apr 04 2019 - 00:36

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And yet a grand total of zero pilot tanks were built with the 120.
WG has stated time and time again that they will not add in composite armor, smoothbores, and computerized fire control.

DrB33t #52 Posted Apr 04 2019 - 00:39

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It exists in Blitz: https://blitzhangar....n/tank/kpfpz-70

 

As a tier 9.



PrimarchRogalDorn #53 Posted Apr 04 2019 - 00:41

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Blitz is not WoT PC, nor do they have the same dev team. It also has the 152mm, not the 120.

Edited by PrimarchRogalDorn, Apr 04 2019 - 00:46.


DrB33t #54 Posted Apr 04 2019 - 00:49

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Irrelevant.

PrimarchRogalDorn #55 Posted Apr 04 2019 - 03:04

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View PostDrB33t, on Apr 03 2019 - 18:49, said:

Irrelevant.

 

No, it's entirely relevant.

DrB33t #56 Posted Apr 05 2019 - 03:57

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View Postfire_raven, on Apr 02 2019 - 20:47, said:

  And Japan gave up their military almost entirely after WW2 which limits their line.

Yes and the Japanese line should be deimperialized at tier 10. I think the Type 5 heavy should be brought down to tier 9 and merged with the Type 4 heavy to become the Type 4/5 Heavy. The difference between those two tanks is marginal. After that the Type 4/5 Heavy could link towards the STB-1 or a Type 74.



CeIestiaLudenberg #57 Posted Apr 05 2019 - 04:30

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View PostPrimarchRogalDorn, on Apr 04 2019 - 10:57, said:

No Kpz 70s had the 120

 

Incorrect.

 

MBT-70 which was the US variant of the design used the 152mm XM150 launcher with Shillelagh missiles.

 

The KPz-70 however, being the German variant, used a 120mm Rheinmetall gun, which after the project was cancelled was further worked upon and was the basis for the Leopard 2's 120mm gun.

 

Whichever gun was 'used' is senseless as neither the US or German variant was ever used, as the project was cancelled due to too many complications.



PrimarchRogalDorn #58 Posted Apr 05 2019 - 07:27

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View PostCeIestiaLudenberg, on Apr 04 2019 - 22:30, said:

 

Incorrect.

 

MBT-70 which was the US variant of the design used the 152mm XM150 launcher with Shillelagh missiles.

 

The KPz-70 however, being the German variant, used a 120mm Rheinmetall gun, which after the project was cancelled was further worked upon and was the basis for the Leopard 2's 120mm gun.

 

Whichever gun was 'used' is senseless as neither the US or German variant was ever used, as the project was cancelled due to too many complications.

 

Find me a single photo of a KPz 70 with the 120mm, I'll wait.

DrB33t #59 Posted Apr 05 2019 - 07:42

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View PostPrimarchRogalDorn, on Apr 05 2019 - 06:27, said:

 

Find me a single photo of a KPz 70 with the 120mm, I'll wait.

 

120mm fits the cold war German play style better than the 152mm. The German cold war tanks should all be characterized by very high penetration and accuracy, high speed, good DPM, decent camo, decent view range, decent damage, and horrible armor with a tendency to receive module damage. Similar to the Swedish tank destroyers except with turrets. They are snipers. They are same as their WW2 cousins except they trade armor for speed and some extra camo. The 152mm is not a snipers gun.

 

If the MBT70 is also added to the game then it should receive the 152mm as the American play style is less snipeish and more derpish.



CeIestiaLudenberg #60 Posted Apr 05 2019 - 09:33

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View PostPrimarchRogalDorn, on Apr 05 2019 - 18:27, said:

 

Find me a single photo of a KPz 70 with the 120mm, I'll wait.

 

Find me a single picture of 90% of the tanks in this game using their current guns.

 

There's a thing, you know, called a design. The German variant was designed to have the 120mm gun, but they scrapped the entire MBT/Kpz project due to the complications surrounding it, meaning they never actually fitted the gun to one of the prototypes. It doesn't mean they weren't going to use it.







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