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[ST] Type 4 & Type 5 Heavy + FV4005 Rebalance, first stage


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yruputin #21 Posted Mar 29 2019 - 19:53

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being able to get these tanks made things more even for me. now that the wheeled French and Russian med. players with their illegal mods. will take over. wg you really do ignore those large clans with many if not most players using CHEAT mods. not another nickle from me. I consider what you are doing a type of thievery.

MacDaddyMatty #22 Posted Mar 29 2019 - 19:57

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View PostGoat_Rodeo, on Mar 29 2019 - 13:45, said:

So wait a second...you're telling me the Type 5 HESH alpha (900) will be lower than the KV2's 152 mm at 910?......at 86mm pen vs. Type 5s at 70mm?

Seems legit.

 

View PostDomoSapien, on Mar 29 2019 - 11:43, said:

Tankers,

 

 

 

Please address this.

BashirTheTrainMaster #23 Posted Mar 29 2019 - 20:09

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Might as well remove the 15 cm. Why would the test even start at 900 damage? We already know how 900 alpha HE works at tier 10. It could have even been changed to an AP gun with low pen... Something like the Borsig could even be fine.

 

And + 3 mm at tier 10 for the 14 cm;

 

 



Mikosah #24 Posted Mar 29 2019 - 20:16

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I like where this is going, but keep in mind what the actual problem is versus what it isn't. In the case of the Type 4 and 5, the first problem is that its howitzer's gold shell is simply a better version of its normal HE, and these changes nicely address that. The second problem is that the tank itself requires either a lot of work or gold spam to be frontally penetrated. If its frontal weakspots still demand gold, they aren't weakspots. Simply the idea that it carries a howitzer and doesn't need to be very precise, and can even counter enemies in strong hull-down or side-scrape positions is not a problem so long as they can retaliate in kind. 

 

As of the 4005, I would have said the aim time nerf by itself would have been enough. Making it so horrendously slow just makes it take even more passive and defensive playstyles, which is annoying for all parties involved.



Goat_Rodeo #25 Posted Mar 29 2019 - 21:02

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As usual, WG goes over the top on the FV 4005 nerfs. Hello passive sniper. I literally give up trying to grind tier 10s that aren’t Russian......

Edited by Goat_Rodeo, Mar 29 2019 - 21:07.


Haruhi_Suzumiya_ #26 Posted Mar 29 2019 - 21:14

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World of Russian Tanks. Thanks for making FV4005 the new worst Tier 10. Remind me to never grind fun tanks that aren't Russian. 

LpBronco #27 Posted Mar 29 2019 - 21:23

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View Posttanopasman62, on Mar 29 2019 - 11:48, said:

All you guys had to do back then when you pulled the derp out of your magic dev hats was buff the 14cm's pen a little (something like 300-310 on the premium shells would be fine) and improve the gun handling so it would be actually able to hit the broad side of a barn, the little buffs they're giving to the 14cm isn't going to improve much, and the nerfs to the 15cm will return the tank back into uselessness like it was before 9.18.

 

 

 

...effectively neutering the Type 5. I have to admit that the only times I play the Type 5 in randoms is when I'm irritated with the MM and arty and decide its my turn to troll the game. Even so it already looks like the Type has had its RNG changed as I've never had as many sub 300 roles as I have since Christmas.

 

0.7.0 looks better all the time.


Edited by LpBronco, Mar 29 2019 - 21:24.


heavymetal1967 #28 Posted Mar 29 2019 - 22:21

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Sorry guys...  I just finished the grind for the Type 4...  never fails as soon as I grind a nine or ten...  boink comes the re-balance. :P

Pepino1976 #29 Posted Mar 29 2019 - 22:22

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Damn. I really liked my FV 4005. Should have played it more. I'm getting tired of anything not Russian either getting nerfed or surpassed by some Russian blueprint  (Objects galore) or copied (German Skorpion now Russian SU-130PM). sigh...

LpBronco #30 Posted Mar 29 2019 - 22:43

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View PostSMhobo, on Mar 29 2019 - 12:58, said:

#how to become NA supertester

 

You can't. Supertest is only Russian.

Mokoma #31 Posted Mar 29 2019 - 23:03

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These changes miss the problem points completely.

4005 isn’t an issue because of its speed, the rng HESH alpha is the problem. 3.7 aim time seems excessive, and that coupled with the mobility nerfs will just promote more passive TD play, which is already a problem at tier 10.

I’ll grant that getting rid of the problematic situation where the premium round for the 15 on the types dealt more damage is a good thing. But making the gun weak isn’t the answer. Getting rid of it would be, though perhaps the devs feel there would be too much backlash (though how they could feel that that would eclipse the anger caused by that gun’s existence is beyond me). JUST MAKE THE 14 VIABLE. It was absolute trash on release, it’s absolute trash now, and it will still be absolute trash after these meaningless buffs.

If these problem tanks are going to be actually fixed:

Nerf the HESH alpha for the 4005, but it retains the high alpha AP, as well as the current mobility and aim time.

Remove the 15 cm gun from the types, or at least nerf it reasonably. Buff the 14 cm pen significantly, probably something around 250-260 standard, 310-330 premium.
Make ACTUALLY MEANINGFUL weakspots on the frontal armor of both. The current ones are a joke and this is imo one of the most disappointing failures in this testing iteration.

The changes being proposed are overall pretty bad, and in most cases totally miss the points that actually cause issues. If the goal is to make tanks that are neither fun to play nor fun to play against, well done. If not, try again, these are a joke.

cloudwalkr #32 Posted Mar 29 2019 - 23:19

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Hi Domo, hope you're doing well bud.

 

my personal opinion is only for the 4005 - I'm not a fan of the dispersion and aim time nerfs + the overall speed and agility nerfs.  I feel like one or the other might be ok, but both together will completely kill the tank.  Either cut it's engine power and speed but leave the gun or nerf the gun but leave it's engine and overall speed alone.  

 

Personally I think I'd prefer the engine nerfs and leave the gun alone.  The aim time nerf along with that dispersion...no thank you.  

 

Just a few immediate thoughts I had.



gmotoman #33 Posted Mar 29 2019 - 23:47

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Damn and I am close to unlocking the type 4.   Serves me right for using all my discounts on one line of vehicle.

Veracks #34 Posted Mar 30 2019 - 00:15

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As others have noted already, the better solution is to remove the 15cm gun and just buff the 14cm gun to ~265AP and ~310APCR. That alone would fix everything. The only reason the 15cm gun became so popular is because the 14cm gun is downright useless with its pathetic gold penetration of ~280mm. As someone who drives a Type 5 fairly often, I'd actually like to see the 15cm gun gone. Sure it's hilarious to slap people for 600+ damage, but it would be far more balanced and reasonable if the 14cm gun just had proper penetration and aim time.

spud_tuber #35 Posted Mar 30 2019 - 00:30

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Speaking only to the 4005:

Typical WG, not addressing the actual issues.  The 4005 is, from the stats I can find,  actually underperforming on NA, EU, and RU servers.  It doesn't need nerfs, it needs the broken nature of high alpha HESH(and to a lesser extent, all high alpha and all HE) addressed.  This nerf is simply an attempt to cover up the issues by reducing player's willingness to use the tank, much like the recently proposed SPG changes.

Skipstar_HypedOnGFUEL #36 Posted Mar 30 2019 - 00:52

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Thank you WG for nerfing two of the most idiot proof tanks in the game this is one of my favorite updates you guys are bringing out as of late please keep more things like this coming.

Type 5s and 4005s are some of the cancers of this game and a crutch for bad players.  Thank you for the nerf I love you :^))))))))) please nerf more HE mechanic tanks that take 0 skill to play.



Bavor #37 Posted Mar 30 2019 - 01:31

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How many years did it take Wargaming to do something about the completely broken, n00b friendly Type 5?  Its obvious game balance isn't a top priority.  Between the TYpe 5 and the 268 V4 taking forever to be "balanced" Wargaming made that clear.

 

I support the Type 4 and Type 5 changes.  They needed to have the HE guns nerfed a very long time ago.  It was painfully obvious that they were a n00b friendly idiot proof no skill gun.  Right click then left click for 350 to 750+ damage every time with no skill involved.  The prevalence of the Type 5 in clan wars, especially when doing a camping defense of land, made that obvious.  Ever try to break a north mountain pass turtle when the defending clan beings 10+ Type 5s without bringing 10+ type 5s of your own?

 

Last campaign we had to defend land using the Mountain Pass map.  A firing line of Type 5's made it too easy.  Focus fire and delete a tank every 15 to 20 seconds or sometimes quicker.  Other clans we faced did the exact same thing.

 

I'd rather see the 15 cm gun removed completely and have the 14 cm gun get a slight buff then some actual frontal weak spots added that lower tier tanks have more than a snowball's chance in hell of penning without face hugging the Type 5.

 

I have mixed feeling about the 4005.  I think a gun handling and accuracy nerf could help.  I'm not sure how I feel about nerfing its mobility.  



LpBronco #38 Posted Mar 30 2019 - 02:05

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So let's remove anything that may have some advantage and isn't Russian. The after hours use of this tank is why you have it and making it obsolete by enfeebling the top gun will just kill the line and the incentive to play the remaining tanks in the line. There's always a counter for every tank in the game and removing the one tank you can't side scrape against just invalidates all the work that went before. 

 

I have 372 games in random games, does that really create such a hardship that it can't maintain it's present position. 



FrozenKemp #39 Posted Mar 30 2019 - 02:40

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Why would you try to nerf the 4005 by doing everything BUT addressing the actual problem?  The problem is the experience of tier 8 or even higher tanks being one shot by HESH. Yes maybe with these changes it might be harder to play the 4005 well but if one of those tanks which can get one shot gets hit and IS one shot, the player of that tank is still going to be pissed off.

Sharp911 #40 Posted Mar 30 2019 - 03:41

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Another tank that you put in the game. Work hard to get and you nerf the crap out of it so the whole work is for nothing. Well done WG for killing another hard work grind. Oh what are you talking about? WFT E100, T100-E5, KV-1S, Hellcat and the list goes on and on. Tanks that are never used anymore in any competitive game play because you made people work for it, and some even paid money to get it, and you NERF the CRAP out of it so no one wants to play it anymore. 

 

Great job. Now can I get my money back for the free exp I bought? 






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