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[ST] Type 4 & Type 5 Heavy + FV4005 Rebalance, first stage


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yruputin #41 Posted Mar 30 2019 - 04:16

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View PostBOT_Skipstar, on Mar 30 2019 - 00:52, said:

Thank you WG for nerfing two of the most idiot proof tanks in the game this is one of my favorite updates you guys are bringing out as of late please keep more things like this coming.

Type 5s and 4005s are some of the cancers of this game and a crutch for bad players.  Thank you for the nerf I love you :^))))))))) please nerf more HE mechanic tanks that take 0 skill to play.

kind of sickening display dude

 



Volcanic_lobster_220 #42 Posted Mar 30 2019 - 04:45

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View Posttanopasman62, on Mar 29 2019 - 17:48, said:

All you guys had to do back then when you pulled the derp out of your magic dev hats was buff the 14cm's pen a little (something like 300-310 on the premium shells would be fine) and improve the gun handling so it would be actually able to hit the broad side of a barn, the little buffs they're giving to the 14cm isn't going to improve much, and the nerfs to the 15cm will return the tank back into uselessness like it was before 9.18.

 

 

 

Yeah but the WOT devs don't have a logical thinking process we do, everybody know's dat.

WeSayNotToday #43 Posted Mar 30 2019 - 08:00

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The FV4005 nerfs are poorly chosen and uncalled for.

 

  • The tank does not over perform AT ALL, it is well-balanced on tank curves, IN FACT IT UNDER-PERFORMS A BIT.
  • Making a tier 10 tank that is not fast MORE of a pain to drive is the wrong move.  Lowering the reverse speed is a seriously poor choice, it makes the tank punish itself for poking out to shoot: it cannot reverse back.  Making the tank less Dynamic, or more onerous, is just wrong.
  • If it must be nerfed, first cut the reload speed just a bit, but the tank performs in a balanced fashion already.  If that won't do it, cut the damage a little or the pen a little, or both, but the tank performs in a balanced fashion already.
  • DO NOT NERF THE TANK, IT PERFORMS IN A FAIRLY BALANCED FASHION RIGHT NOW ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN PUBLISHED DATA [EU SERVER DATA].  In fact, it under-performs just a bit NOW, do not nerf the tank!

Edited by WeSayNotToday, Mar 30 2019 - 08:01.


Crimson_Saber #44 Posted Mar 30 2019 - 13:09

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View PostDomoSapien, on Mar 29 2019 - 10:43, said:

Tankers,

You've been patiently waiting, after several patches of cosmetic and quality-of-life changes, UI updates, Random Rewards, Crew Skins.... we've finally got some more news to share with you about vehicle rebalancing. 

 

Very soon, modified versions of three iconic vehicles—the Type 4 Heavy, the Type 5 Heavy, and the FV4005—will roll out onto the Supertest. The changes being introduced are significant so let’s take a closer look at each vehicle.

 

Both Japanese heavies will have the stats of their top guns (14-cm and 15-cm) tweaked. The former’s rounds will increase in armor penetration (from 249 mm to 252 mm for the standard shell and from 282 mm to 290 mm for the special shell). The changes to the 15-cm cannon (derp gun will be more severe. The damage of its basic HE round will decrease from 1,100 to 900 points, and the special round will change from HE to HESH, with armor penetration increasing to 192 mm and damage decreasing from 1,400 to 750 points.

 

Besides all that, the top Japanese heavy will become more mobile, gaining 4 km/h in top forward speed, 3 km/h in top reverse speed, and 3 degrees in hull traverse rate. Its specific power will grow, and gun dispersion on the move and while turning will decrease.

 

These stat adjustments are to lessen the HE damage share in the overall output of the top Japanese heavies, without revising these vehicles’ basic concept. The changes described above will make the 15-cm gun less efficient, especially against high-tier adversaries. At the same time, the alternate gun will fare better, in part because of the general changes to the parameters of the Tier X tank, and players will have a more substantial choice between the two playstyles.

 

The stats of the British queen of alpha strikes, the FV 4005, are about to change a lot, too. Most of the tweaks deal with the chassis. The top forward speed will decrease (from 35 km/h to 32 km/h), and the top reverse will drop from 12 km/h to 8 km/h. The same will happen to the engine power (down to 850 hp from 950 hp) and the hull traverse rate (down to 26 degrees from 30 degrees). The gun itself will have less accuracy (with dispersion upped from 0.38 to 0.42), and will take longer to aim (3.7 seconds vs 3 seconds).

 

With these adjustments implemented, the FV 4005 will retain its key feature—HESH shells with high armor penetration allowing for colossal alpha—with the overall effectiveness of the vehicle decreasing only slightly. The FV 4005 will continue to be a mighty combatant able to take out an enemy with a single strike, yet it will need more time to prepare that shot.

Of course, keeping in mind that this is the first wave of balance tweaks for these vehicles, these parameters are subject to change based on the results of testing.

Assets with stats/parameters are below. 

EXPAND

 

 

 

IMO nerfs are never really good for the game especially when you focus only some tanks, and not the over all game as a whole case in point Russian over armored tanks. Players play the game with expectations investing money, and time. By trying to please one crowd you just upset another, and has caused me to leave other MMO/pvp games before. The over abundance of over armored Russian tanks in this game is also stupidly unbalanced, and imo the Japanese derp guns were the mitigation for that. People will complain that their usual defensive tactics don't work against them but that was the point. If derp guns in general weren't ever used the game slows to a crawl becomes less dynamic, and players can play over heavily armored anything without fear of reprisal. The so called "skill" Need to play such tanks is actually pretty silly when you know you can just take a defensive position without taking damage. That's not skill.  The Types have received criticism nearly akin to arty but at least the Types are in the trenches able to get killed, and flanked. Very easily I might add. If you're going to reduce the damage of the derp guns then at least have them reload a little faster to make up for it.

 

I don't know I got mixed feelings about this. Just feels like more catering to the Russian tech tree...


Edited by Crimson_Saber, Mar 30 2019 - 14:07.


LpBronco #45 Posted Mar 30 2019 - 13:35

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Didn't remember ( or it wasn't so before) 0.7.0 limits the amount of Gold rounds you can carry. Since you can purchase for silver it removes the incentive to limit the total amount you can have on hand but taking out 8's in my fives is possible ( and I used standard rounds in the PzIV with the 42/L70) and would be a better solution across the board than rebalancing specific tanks.

Capt_Essi_Izumi #46 Posted Mar 31 2019 - 00:14

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View PostLpBronco, on Mar 29 2019 - 16:43, said:

 

You can't. Supertest is only Russian.

 

I'm actually curious if this is where all the soviet bias comes from, I really have my thinking cap on.

I'm still waiting for the supposed Leopard 1 and STB buffs, hopefully firing on the move will be an improvement for the Leo and HydroPneumatic suspension for the STB. But TBH I can just see them nerfing it even more.



cloudwalkr #47 Posted Mar 31 2019 - 00:34

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View Postyruputin, on Mar 29 2019 - 19:53, said:

being able to get these tanks made things more even for me. now that the wheeled French and Russian med. players with their illegal mods. will take over. wg you really do ignore those large clans with many if not most players using CHEAT mods. not another nickle from me. I consider what you are doing a type of thievery.

 

yrupoutin.  

 

Go come up with some more excuses, troll.



Prediator #48 Posted Mar 31 2019 - 02:20

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No point in any of those tanks if you nerf them that hard...  Great to see more wasted grinding.  All artillery lines are useless..  the American heavies are useless, French heavies useless, swiss heavies crap, german heavies useless, Japanese heavies useless.  I guess it will just be soviet heavies vs the clone Chinese soviet heavies in WOT...  start off the rebalance by buffing tanks? no instead make more tanks useless.



Fractured_Raptor #49 Posted Mar 31 2019 - 08:40

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As someone who plays the 4005 a lot, thank the gold spam for that, I'd like to request another change if the developers even read the site. 

 

As it stands now the FV 4005's HESH rounds are fine as they are against armored targets of its own tier. However ... they are far too much for tier 8. The same can be said about soft targets at tier 9 and 10. For tier 8, and those soft targets, I'd like to again bring up the idea of dynamic damage. HESH shells should do no more than half those tanks HP. For tier 8 I'd like to see that number be lower. Maybe in the  350 to 400 range. That puts it in line with the mediums and some heavies of higher tiers. It doesn't have to do more module damage to compensate, there is no need to compensate. It's simply too much for tier 8 and targets who have no armor what so ever. Most tier 8s don't have the armor values to hold up against HESH's penetration. That's why they almost always get an instant ticket to the garage. That or limit the 4005 to tier nine and ten. Exclude it from seeing 8 period. 


Edited by Fractured_Raptor, Mar 31 2019 - 08:41.


LpBronco #50 Posted Mar 31 2019 - 15:41

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No special rules for special tanks. I disagree with the reassessment of these unique vehicles and see that they have a place now that will not survive these proposed changes without making them undesirable. I already have no personal use for the "Outhouse" and limit the random use of the Type. Really see more issues in the power creep associated with alpha damage in general punishing the older tanks in the tree.

 

I've really enjoyed the Retro Weekend and getting a chance to remember what endeared the game to me - massive numbers of arty and wild swings in matchmaking that were actually challenging and - dare I say it - FUN.  I'm not spending that many games at top tier but I can always contribute and tier 8's and 9's still fall prey to my Chaffee and Pz IV, Uh Yah.

 

The time is ripe to increase the tier structure so that there is a chance to create more room for the matchmaking to assess tank characteristics and take the pressure off the mid tiers. Tier 12 should have rolled out 2 years ago and a lot of the issues we have wouldn't even exist.


Edited by LpBronco, Mar 31 2019 - 15:44.


eThug666 #51 Posted Mar 31 2019 - 19:10

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View PostTwixOps, on Mar 29 2019 - 18:10, said:

 

That's funny, you've played 200 battles this month.  

 

I don't see how that has anything to do with his comment about bait and switch, unless you're just trying (horribly) to troll him.

Drifter_X #52 Posted Mar 31 2019 - 19:44

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Whatever works, I put 6 gold rounds into any type I see. I dont care about the cost anymore.

REDENG #53 Posted Mar 31 2019 - 21:34

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View PostThe_Wild_Weasel, on Mar 29 2019 - 17:58, said:

Bait and switch .....

 

I stopped playing this game long ago..... 

 

so many better games out there....

 

 

 

Stopped playing eh...... says you played 13 battles in the last 7 days, and 183 in the last 60...... just admit it you love this game too much to admit :trollface:



REDENG #54 Posted Mar 31 2019 - 21:36

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View PostCAPTAIN_ESSI, on Mar 31 2019 - 00:14, said:

 

I'm actually curious if this is where all the soviet bias comes from, I really have my thinking cap on.

I'm still waiting for the supposed Leopard 1 and STB buffs, hopefully firing on the move will be an improvement for the Leo and HydroPneumatic suspension for the STB. But TBH I can just see them nerfing it even more.

 

The game is an original Soviet game brought to us lol

Bavor #55 Posted Mar 31 2019 - 22:52

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View PostLpBronco, on Mar 29 2019 - 20:05, said:

So let's remove anything that may have some advantage and isn't Russian. The after hours use of this tank is why you have it and making it obsolete by enfeebling the top gun will just kill the line and the incentive to play the remaining tanks in the line. There's always a counter for every tank in the game and removing the one tank you can't side scrape against just invalidates all the work that went before. 

 

I have 372 games in random games, does that really create such a hardship that it can't maintain it's present position. 

 

I see you do not care about game balance ot a tier 10 tank that is "pay to win" or about allowing RNG to be important over skill.

 

View PostSharp911, on Mar 29 2019 - 21:41, said:

Another tank that you put in the game. Work hard to get and you nerf the crap out of it so the whole work is for nothing. Well done WG for killing another hard work grind. Oh what are you talking about? WFT E100, T100-E5, KV-1S, Hellcat and the list goes on and on. Tanks that are never used anymore in any competitive game play because you made people work for it, and some even paid money to get it, and you NERF the CRAP out of it so no one wants to play it anymore. 

 

Great job. Now can I get my money back for the free exp I bought? 

 

I see you also do not care about game balance of a tier 10 tank that is "pay to win" or about allowing RNG to be important over skill.

 

The simple fact is the Type 5 is broken.  It has a premium round that does significantly more damage and it doesn't require much skill to do well in the tank at all with the largest gun and its HE rounds.  There is no aiming for weak spots necessary when playing the Type 5.  You get more damage if you pay more for premium ammo.  Its not good for the game and its skill floor is so low that it allows anyone to do damage in it with minimal skill.  Meanwhile everyone else has to take time and expose themself to aim for your weak spots.  Sure some will say flank it, but with Wargaming poor corridor map design that's now often an option.  You basically have to flank it by going through another corridor.  



TwixOps #56 Posted Apr 01 2019 - 02:24

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View PostTankEnema, on Mar 31 2019 - 14:10, said:

 

I don't see how that has anything to do with his comment about bait and switch, unless you're just trying (horribly) to troll him.

 

If you actually bothered to read the comment I replied to, you would know he claimed to have "stopped playing this game."  The fact that he's played several hundred matches this month alone (or, about 16 hours at 5 minutes/match) shows that that's a flat out lie.  

 

View Postquote

Bait and switch .....

 

I stopped playing this game long ago..... 

 

so many better games out there....

 

Do better.  


yruputin #57 Posted Apr 01 2019 - 09:20

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View Postcloudwalkr, on Mar 31 2019 - 00:34, said:

 

yrupoutin.  

 

Go come up with some more excuses, troll.

 

walkr---lol troll , you need some help.

LpBronco #58 Posted Apr 01 2019 - 12:53

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Making an asinine claim that this is a game balance issue is just the mask of a hater. Your arguments are strawmen and have no basis in fact. This is an arcade game and skill is secondary to the "luck" built into the game. The answer isn't to create more obsolete content but to give yourself more ways to distinguish between the tanks in queue. You want to play CoD where everyone basically gets the same pair of boots and rifle, you're welcome to that game.

latvius #59 Posted Apr 04 2019 - 15:27

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When I first started playing the type5 I did not use gold rounds (I am cheap) and I could not figure out why I never got over 2nd class after about 50 matches then I figured out the gold round did more damage.  Personally I hate the gold spam in this game so I am for the nerf.  Even when I only used the cheap HE I still had a good win ratio just based on the HP pool of the tank.  I think I would still play it after the nerf and may try the other gun.

On the FV, I don't own one so take it with a grain of salt, I don't think they are good for the game.  It is the same thing as getting one shotted by (old)arty, yeah I "might" see them so I get to shoot back and "maybe" hit them for a 1/4 of what they hit me, but my match is effectively over as I have lost at least 1/2 my hit points (assuming I survived even).

 

I don't see much difference between the two tanks, one you pull out in plain view and blap somebody for ridiculous damage with your extra damage gold round and the other you sneak up and blap somebody for ridiculous damage with your extra pen gold round.  I won't mind seeing less of them on the battlefield, it will add to their "uniqueness".



Pinedhuitre #60 Posted Apr 06 2019 - 17:56

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View PostTheOxiCleanGuy, on Mar 29 2019 - 18:27, said:

Please for the love of god, just remove the 15cm HE gun from the Type 4 & 5 and buff the 14cm gun to have ~260 pen on the normal round and ~300-310 on the special round. The mobility buff seems alright too, but the biggest problem with that tank is the cancerous gameplay it promotes.

 

i don't even look at the pen you re proposing. Just stick these He guns into their players butt.




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