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Wheelies have ruined FL for me


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FearTheBadger #21 Posted Apr 17 2019 - 17:25

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change your play run more light tanks and mediums in front line

RG_Notch #22 Posted Apr 17 2019 - 17:34

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View PostFearTheBadger, on Apr 17 2019 - 11:25, said:

change your play run more light tanks and mediums in front line

 

Are you kidding? Adapt to change? Alter the meta they are used to? That's crazy talk. 

21Blackjack #23 Posted Apr 17 2019 - 17:53

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View PostThePigSheFlies, on Apr 17 2019 - 16:09, said:

 

for me, I play wheelies in FL as a break from the cancerous, funnel, tiny small maps in random battles like:

ensk, paris, abbey, ruinberg, mt pass and a whole host of others.

 

at one point I had been on defense a staggering 12 out of 15 times, and quite frankly just spent time enjoying the larger maps, zipping around counter scouting, and/or blowing up arty.  so yes, count me as one that enjoys those wheeled vehicles (or the Even 90, and let's be honest if it had the gun handling and dpm of a wheelie, folks would be absolutely losing their mind over it)

 

 

​the flexibility, especially when coordinated has a MAJOR impact on the match.

 

 

So basically, you are playing the way the LT's were designed back in the day?   So when are the wheelies going to get the LT treatment, be turned into light mediums, and WG introduces soldiers on motorbikes as the new scout class?  And then when they get the LT treatment, Russian dogs with bombs strapped to them?  And then after that, carrier pidgeons?

 

 



Canadian_Mano #24 Posted Apr 17 2019 - 17:57

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View Post21Blackjack, on Apr 17 2019 - 12:53, said:

 

So basically, you are playing the way the LT's were designed back in the day?   So when are the wheelies going to get the LT treatment, be turned into light mediums, and WG introduces soldiers on motorbikes as the new scout class?  And then when they get the LT treatment, Russian dogs with bombs strapped to them?  And then after that, carrier pidgeons?

 

 

 

Kamikaze Carrier Pigeons for the Japanese. T10 is a flock of them tied to a 240mm HE round.

Trauglodyte #25 Posted Apr 17 2019 - 18:42

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View PostThePigSheFlies, on Apr 17 2019 - 16:09, said:

 

​the flexibility, especially when coordinated has a MAJOR impact on the match.

 

the lion's share of my damage in this was with the EBR, firing HE.

 

 

no, I'm not trying to say this is even remotely typical, but it's also not an isolated, cherry picking event...

 

I'm not disagreeing with you.  But, we both know the kind of player that you are.  The bulk of the games result in a large percentage of total damage being assistance.  I'd wager somewhere in the range of 2/3 to 1/3 - thoughts on that?  Regardless, the point is that, for the bulk of players, they're not directly impacting the game because they don't know how to think through the scenarios, don't know how to read the battle flow and don't understand when to do what.  THAT is the biggest skill gap, on Light tanks.  Armored Cars are just able to do it easier, because of the agility and higher speed.

 

It requires the rare great player to be directly impactful.  And, even then, those games are less common than what you'd be able to achieve, in regards to combat up time, in a Tracked Light.  Would you not agree with those sentiments?



Brody67 #26 Posted Apr 17 2019 - 20:07

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Im not a fan of wheeled light tanks eathier, but if they get shot in wheels they should have a chance to flip or be stuck there while their tires re inflate, 

 

things that could help make them a tad more intresting 

 

- remove auto tire repair, or give other lights that ability

 

- remove auto aim cause wth, 

 

- if hit in tires they should have the chance to flip cause you shoot a car tire with a 50cal round well their going to flip or do somer salts from the speed  



ThePigSheFlies #27 Posted Apr 17 2019 - 20:19

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View PostBrody67, on Apr 17 2019 - 14:07, said:

 

- if hit in tires they should have the chance to flip cause you shoot a car tire with a 50cal round well their going to flip or do somer salts from the speed  

 

tire failure at 80/kmh, (or 50mph) even if catastrophic doesn't  cause a car to flip, or do somersaults...  (someone's been watching too many movies)

 

here's one at 180 mph at Daytona on the rear where the driver does a helluva job of not spinning out  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbpzslRUipY  

 

regardless, if you want wheeled vehicles to be "stopped" by wheel hits for a "realistic time frame to replace or re-inflate a tire" then let's talk about a realistic time frame for putting a track back on your tank...  (with a large repair kit, it's a single button press, and can often be done before a tracked tank in the game comes to a stop)



SteelRonin #28 Posted Apr 17 2019 - 20:35

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I don't hate the wheelies in frontline, a couple of time I got killed by one of them because I was isolated and with 5% of HP. In the other hand I hate the spam of soviet tanks, Defenders, IS-3As, T-44-100s, IS-Ms, IS-3s, SU-130PM and the recently P2W tank, the TS-5 with 1500 HP.....the gameplay loses all the fun when 80% of the enemy tanks are these ones...

 

I use wheelies, and everytime I use them, I don't have any chances, I mean 0 chances to hit a soviet tank on the move, while they can snap me and set me on fire 60% of the time....like they have incendiary ammo...And also, every HE shot that I receive destroys 2 wheels.....I must be the only wheelie player to get "stopped" because every damn wheel is broken.....I have never seen an ally or enemy getting stopped for having all the wheeles destroyed.....I am definitely missing something..



Mancu #29 Posted Apr 17 2019 - 20:40

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Out of curiosity I checked the tank curves for the tier 8 French lights.

Users under performed across the spectrum in the B-C 12t but were on track or slightly over performed in both the Even 90 and EBR 75.

Unfortunately I couldn't pull a 6x6 curve, it kept erroring on me.



ThePigSheFlies #30 Posted Apr 17 2019 - 20:43

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View PostTrauglodyte, on Apr 17 2019 - 12:42, said:

 

I'm not disagreeing with you.  But, we both know the kind of player that you are.  The bulk of the games result in a large percentage of total damage being assistance.  I'd wager somewhere in the range of 2/3 to 1/3 - thoughts on that?  Regardless, the point is that, for the bulk of players, they're not directly impacting the game because they don't know how to think through the scenarios, don't know how to read the battle flow and don't understand when to do what.  THAT is the biggest skill gap, on Light tanks.  Armored Cars are just able to do it easier, because of the agility and higher speed.

 

It requires the rare great player to be directly impactful.  And, even then, those games are less common than what you'd be able to achieve, in regards to combat up time, in a Tracked Light.  Would you not agree with those sentiments?

 

in a regular battle, on regular, random maps, yes I agree, that tracked lights are often more capable.  one can see it in my own win rate on the even 90 for example vs. the panhard.

 

I do not have the LT 432, or the HWK, or the Black Dog, so I can't really speak for how well they work in randoms, or in FL.  I've watched Jerm use the LT 432 to great effect.

 

as for having huge amounts of assist, I tend to have the engineering/spotter plane/smoke on my LTs, including the wheeled, and use them frequently on adjacent lanes, which if why I end up with a ton of indirect influence on the game.  in the charioteer, I also run engineering, and spotter plane, and also end up with a ton of "indirect" influence.

 

I guess in a way, I'm illustrating that indirect influence can have a huge direct influence on the outcome :P

 

as for the bulk of players.  the bulk of players don't directly influence the game, regardless of game mode.  what they are doing is playing a localized version of a first person shooter.  which at a macro level doesn't have much of an impact on the match.  how many battles have you seen someone have to point out that there is an overmatch on one lane or another?  simple concepts of counting seems to be advanced...



Trauglodyte #31 Posted Apr 17 2019 - 20:45

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View PostMancu, on Apr 17 2019 - 20:40, said:

Out of curiosity I checked the tank curves for the tier 8 French lights.

Users under performed across the spectrum in the B-C 12t but were on track or slightly over performed in both the Even 90 and EBR 75.

Unfortunately I couldn't pull a 6x6 curve, it kept erroring on me.

 

The numbers for the wheeled tanks are skewed.  Different play styles, between tank types, combined with the fact that the Armored Cars greatly disrupt games through 6th Sense fear and the inability of most people to landing shots.  People keep using the curves as a smoking gun and, while I won't disagree with the fact that there is some valid data that can be extracted, you can't compare them on a 1:1 basis.  It would be like comparing a VK 36.01 H and a KV-2.  They're both Heavy tanks but they play in completely different ways.

Trauglodyte #32 Posted Apr 17 2019 - 20:53

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View PostThePigSheFlies, on Apr 17 2019 - 20:43, said:

 

in a regular battle, on regular, random maps, yes I agree, that tracked lights are often more capable.  one can see it in my own win rate on the even 90 for example vs. the panhard.

 

I do not have the LT 432, or the HWK, or the Black Dog, so I can't really speak for how well they work in randoms, or in FL.  I've watched Jerm use the LT 432 to great effect.

 

as for having huge amounts of assist, I tend to have the engineering/spotter plane/smoke on my LTs, including the wheeled, and use them frequently on adjacent lanes, which if why I end up with a ton of indirect influence on the game.  in the charioteer, I also run engineering, and spotter plane, and also end up with a ton of "indirect" influence.

 

I guess in a way, I'm illustrating that indirect influence can have a huge direct influence on the outcome :P

 

as for the bulk of players.  the bulk of players don't directly influence the game, regardless of game mode.  what they are doing is playing a localized version of a first person shooter.  which at a macro level doesn't have much of an impact on the match.  how many battles have you seen someone have to point out that there is an overmatch on one lane or another?  simple concepts of counting seems to be advanced...

 

Very true, on all accounts.  Granted, I was talking more about Armored Cars in Random Battles.  I find FL to be tedious and silly, since winning isn't the objective and that, alone, hurts my soul.  I had the HWK "Mexican" 12 but sold it, since I enjoy playing war era tanks (and I get punished for it).  I'm waiting for the hopeful release of the German Armored Cars with the hopes that the tier 8 premium is a Sd. Kfz 234 with the Aufklaurunzpanzer Pather turret and 7.5/5.5 Konis 75 mm.  REALLY holding out hope!!!

 

In relation to FL, I do see the damage.  I watched an FL 10 sit bounce in and out of the spawn zone, in a game on Monday, whacking anyone that happened to spawn.  It was a brutal watch and, sadly, you can't do anything about it because you don't know the disposition of the spawn zone security until you actually spawn.  So, I get the angst and I get it in random battles, too.  I just think that people let their fears have too much of a controlling factor in a game.  I love countering ACs, in my RU.  If you take a broad path to known Light locations, you can keep them from going where they want to go.  It won't net you big sexy numbers to put on Youtube.  But, neither is HE spamming a +2 tier Heavy strong pointing a corner.  Yet, I'll do that all damned day and laugh my way to big assistance damage, all while knowing that I pissed said player off.  Maybe it is the millenial generation or that it is an internet game but, and against this is just observation that is biased upon my upbringing, it seems like too many people want things handed to them instead of identifying the problem and working it through.



Animal71 #33 Posted Apr 17 2019 - 20:58

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I think what's ruining frontlines is all the OP new Golden tanks <Yes I use them but only the Lansen and Lowe>.  The tier 8 Italian tanks and the Scorpion G really Troll the game and seems every match has 20 of the 30 tanks either a Go Kart Frenchy or one of the 2 I listed above.  Not too mention giving everyone a kill everything in sight Spam button that's either Bombs or Arty.  The good ol days of dueling are gone now it's just super damage spam from behind rocks.  Not sure if there is an actual solution. but they definitely need to pay some attention to the massive game imbalances caused by all this premium type spam.

Brody67 #34 Posted Apr 17 2019 - 21:16

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View PostSteelRonin, on Apr 17 2019 - 20:35, said:

I don't hate the wheelies in frontline, a couple of time I got killed by one of them because I was isolated and with 5% of HP. In the other hand I hate the spam of soviet tanks, Defenders, IS-3As, T-44-100s, IS-Ms, IS-3s, SU-130PM and the recently P2W tank, the TS-5 with 1500 HP.....the gameplay loses all the fun when 80% of the enemy tanks are these ones...

 

I use wheelies, and everytime I use them, I don't have any chances, I mean 0 chances to hit a soviet tank on the move, while they can snap me and set me on fire 60% of the time....like they have incendiary ammo...And also, every HE shot that I receive destroys 2 wheels.....I must be the only wheelie player to get "stopped" because every damn wheel is broken.....I have never seen an ally or enemy getting stopped for having all the wheeles destroyed.....I am definitely missing something..

 

TS-5 isnt even a OP tank, its very vulnerable tbh cause its turning and slow speed make it easy to counter in a fast medium or heavy,

SteelRonin #35 Posted Apr 17 2019 - 21:27

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View PostBrody67, on Apr 17 2019 - 17:16, said:

 

TS-5 isnt even a OP tank, its very vulnerable tbh cause its turning and slow speed make it easy to counter in a fast medium or heavy,

 

is OP, a TD tier 8 with 1500 HP is beyond stupid, plus the tons of frontal armor it has.....You can't even perma track + damage it frontally because the hull is far behind the tracks.....the lower plate is 40- % chances to hit with 200 mm penetration gun......did I say 1500HP?...

 

If you balance a tank because other tanks can outurn it......you are wrong.....this is not a 1 vs 1 game...and the maps are not football yards...



Trauglodyte #36 Posted Apr 17 2019 - 21:39

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View PostSteelRonin, on Apr 17 2019 - 21:27, said:

 

is OP, a TD tier 8 with 1500 HP is beyond stupid, plus the tons of frontal armor it has.....You can't even perma track + damage it frontally because the hull is far behind the tracks.....the lower plate is 40- % chances to hit with 200 mm penetration gun......did I say 1500HP?...

 

If you balance a tank because other tanks can outurn it......you are wrong.....this is not a 1 vs 1 game...and the maps are not football yards...

 

It is funny that you bring that up.  I was in a Murovanka game last night, in my Borsig.  I had a TS-5 dead to rights, from about 300-ish meters, and I missed his lower plate, low, both times that I fired.  Completely whiffed, both times.  Had they been up, half a meter, I'd had landed on the spot where I aimed.

 

On a sad note, I'm still trying to figure out how the TS-5, and the T28, are balanced, in comparison to the Ferdinand.  Both, the T28 and the TS-5 have higher DPM, -20% alpha, +2 pen, faster reload, MUCH better armor, better aim time, better soft stats, TS-5 is 4 kph slower than the Ferdi but has the same power-to-weight, INFINITELY more armor, same level of vision, and the same health.  On top of that, both tanks have smaller profiles with massively better effective armor and weak spots that are hard to get to.  The Ferdi is a weak spot on tracks that is barely smaller than the Maus.  Suka balync!



nshelton #37 Posted Apr 17 2019 - 21:42

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If you dont have a meme tank with an autoloader or a Wheelie boi, random battles are going to be more productive in my experience.

golruul #38 Posted Apr 17 2019 - 22:24

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I don't mind wheelies in Frontlines.

 

I think the root cause of what's really getting to people is that Frontlines allows proper flanking, which wheelies can make greater use of. 

 

In other words, heavy armor tanks dominating random battle corridors aren't doing so great in Frontlines (note that they don't actually suck, they're just not as OP as they are in random battles). 

 

Which of course leads to calls of nerfing anything that can counter heavy armor corridor-fighting tanks.

 

Gotta pester WG to keep that simple, one-dimensional playstyle regardless of mode/map!



TA_Reaper #39 Posted Apr 17 2019 - 22:48

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Wheeled tanks are basically total BS. IF you hit one going 90MPH with a 120MM round they just keep going, don't slow down, don't flip over, just laugh at you auto aim, never miss and shoot you three times as they run off. Most light tanks are worthless to chase one as is my bull dog now that it no longer has an auto loader. Wheeled tanks really need a major NURF. A reduction of half their HP, their speed reduced by half when hit, how about they have to remount a tire(s) when hit like a tracked tank. Something, because right now they are 100 times worse than any Arty that shoots one round and then has to wait forever to load up another one.

 



ThePigSheFlies #40 Posted Apr 17 2019 - 22:53

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View PostTA_Reaper, on Apr 17 2019 - 16:48, said:

Wheeled tanks are basically total BS. IF you hit one going 90MPH with a 120MM round they just keep going, don't slow down, don't flip over, just laugh at you auto aim, never miss and shoot you three times as they run off. Most light tanks are worthless to chase one as is my bull dog now that it no longer has an auto loader. Wheeled tanks really need a major NURF. A reduction of half their HP, their speed reduced by half when hit, how about they have to remount a tire(s) when hit like a tracked tank. Something, because right now they are 100 times worse than any Arty that shoots one round and then has to wait forever to load up another one.

 

 

there isn't a single tank, or wheeled vehicle in the game that goes 90 mph






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