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winrate is not a reflection of player skill


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NeatoMan #261 Posted May 20 2019 - 00:11

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Rank is worthless..  What are your avg dmg, kills per game, etc.?

cheapbooks #262 Posted May 20 2019 - 00:13

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My 4th lowest winrate tank. Scorpion TD. Again, I outperform everyone in damage, kills, and spotting, yet my winrate is lower.

 

RANK 2291 - WOT RATING

RANK 2821 - AVERAGE DAMAGE

RANK 1532 - EXP

RANK 3196 - KILLS

RANK 124 - SPOTTING

 

RANK 4761 - WINRATE (44.15%)

 

clearly there is something suspicious going on here.



_Tsavo_ #263 Posted May 20 2019 - 00:13

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Because when and where damage, spots, and kills happen also matter.   You get a lot of spots but die a lot.   You yolo scout or scout poorly and get yourself killed but hey, you spotted 9 guys.  In their base.  At 30 seconds in.   Good job?  A good scout gets eyes and early assistance and then makes all efforts to continue being alive, a late game scout is king. 

 

Same for kills and damage.  High-ish kills and damage (the Matilda BP and Turan aren't popular so have generally low numbers) with low win rate is usually an indicator of damage farming and red lining.  With your spots, however, I'd hazard a guess that you just pick a location or flank and just drive into the enemy.  You did some damage and maybe a kill and saw a lot of things.  Great.  But now you're dead and your team is likely down a tank early on.   

 

This is why stats are not concrete but good indicators of what someone may do.  It's probability and statistics.  Also why singular matches are meaningless in the context of performance and stats.  

 

Whatever you're doing in your Matilda BP and Turan, it's not conducive to wins. 


Edited by _Tsavo_, May 20 2019 - 00:15.


cheapbooks #264 Posted May 20 2019 - 00:17

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I once played a game on Malinovka where we had a player that refused to play. He stayed at the back and told everyone what to do all game, insisting he was a great player. We needed him and we started losing. We all fought valiently. Everyone on the team begged him to join in.

 

Then it was him vs 5 enemy tanks. He hid in a bush at the back of the map. Each enemy tank came after him, as a 1 shot, he killed all 5, and won the game with highest # of kills on the team. Is he a good player? no.



_Tsavo_ #265 Posted May 20 2019 - 00:21

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View Postcheapbooks, on May 19 2019 - 18:17, said:

I once played a game on Malinovka where we had a player that refused to play. He stayed at the back and told everyone what to do all game, insisting he was a great player. We needed him and we started losing. We all fought valiently. Everyone on the team begged him to join in.

 

Then it was him vs 5 enemy tanks. He hid in a bush at the back of the map. Each enemy tank came after him, as a 1 shot, he killed all 5, and won the game with highest # of kills on the team. Is he a good player? no.

 

You know that bit I just posted about how singular battles are meaningless in terms of stats and probability?  Yeah.  

 

Blind squirrel getting his long lost walnut does not a statistic make. 

 

 

That player, if he does camp base often, won't win many games and it'll show in his record.  Likely a positive KDR, ho-hum damage, and almost no spots would lead to poor win rates. 

 

It's not rocket science 


Edited by _Tsavo_, May 20 2019 - 00:27.


Jer1413 #266 Posted May 20 2019 - 00:29

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View Postcheapbooks, on May 19 2019 - 18:10, said:

 

and you failed to notice that the players with the highest winrates are playing in the lowest average tiers

 

You must be looking at different charts than me because I see the exact opposite.

 



Jer1413 #267 Posted May 20 2019 - 00:33

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View Postcheapbooks, on May 19 2019 - 19:17, said:

I once played a game on Malinovka where we had a player that refused to play. He stayed at the back and told everyone what to do all game, insisting he was a great player. We needed him and we started losing. We all fought valiently. Everyone on the team begged him to join in.

 

Then it was him vs 5 enemy tanks. He hid in a bush at the back of the map. Each enemy tank came after him, as a 1 shot, he killed all 5, and won the game with highest # of kills on the team. Is he a good player? no.

 

That's more an indication of poor play by his opponents than anything else. Any semblance of teamwork and he loses nine times out of ten.

 



cheapbooks #268 Posted May 20 2019 - 00:40

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View PostJer1413, on May 20 2019 - 00:29, said:

 

You must be looking at different charts than me because I see the exact opposite.

 

 

print out the chart, and go to all your friends and family and coworkers and declare how you interpret the players with the highest winrates are not playing the lowest average tiers. maybe use it every time you do a college admissions interview or a job interview, and you can show the world how smart you are to be so correct and adept at reading that chart.

 

and go to bars and make bets. bet money that you believe that the players with the highest winrates are not playing the lowest average tiers. report the results back to us. 

 

maybe try betting some cold hard cash against some kindergartners I bet they will teach you something about your chart interpretation ability.

 

thanks



Tolos #269 Posted May 20 2019 - 00:42

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Seems to me that the reason your spotting is ' good ' is because you basically rush and die, thus spotting stuff, but being totally and utterly useless for the rest of the battle. 

_Tsavo_ #270 Posted May 20 2019 - 00:46

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View PostTolos, on May 19 2019 - 18:42, said:

Seems to me that the reason your spotting is ' good ' is because you basically rush and die, thus spotting stuff, but being totally and utterly useless for the rest of the battle. 

 

Winner, winner, you owe me a dinner!  I think? 

Jer1413 #271 Posted May 20 2019 - 01:06

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View Postcheapbooks, on May 19 2019 - 19:40, said:

 

print out the chart, and go to all your friends and family and coworkers and declare how you interpret the players with the highest winrates are not playing the lowest average tiers. maybe use it every time you do a college admissions interview or a job interview, and you can show the world how smart you are to be so correct and adept at reading that chart.

 

and go to bars and make bets. bet money that you believe that the players with the highest winrates are not playing the lowest average tiers. report the results back to us. 

 

maybe try betting some cold hard cash against some kindergartners I bet they will teach you something about your chart interpretation ability.

 

thanks

 

OMG you're a moron.

 

The first chart is a 59.8% win-rate player with an average tier of 7.48.

 

Second shows a 54.7% win-rate at an average tier of 7.41.

 

Third chart is a 49.8% player playing an average tier of 6.50.

 

It's the exact opposite of what you're saying. Go ask Neato, they're his charts.

 

 



cheapbooks #272 Posted May 20 2019 - 01:45

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FV3805 - TIER 9 SPG

 

once again, I have a low winrate (35%) yet my dmg, kills, and spotting are way higher than the top players (67%)

 

For April 2019:

 

RANK 148 - WOT RATING

RANK 161 - DAMAGE

RANK 169 - EXP

RANK 192 - KILLS

 

RANK 314 - WINRATE (35%) vs TOP PLAYER RANK #1 WINRATE (67%)

 

TOP PLAYER 67% WINRATE:

ME 1039 DMG - HIM 780 DMG

ME .5 KILLS - HIM .35 KILLS

ME 807 SPOTTING - HIM 898 SPOTTING

 

Am I yoloing and suiciding at the beginning of the game?

 

All of my stats are better than or as good as his. Yet he has a mind blowing winrate and mine is as low as it can get.

 

so am I to guess that I completely throw the game at the end but this guy has that amazing magic that he turns every game into a win for his team even though he can't hit the broadside of a barn for the majority of the game?

 

high winrate = stat padding


Edited by cheapbooks, May 20 2019 - 01:48.


cheapbooks #273 Posted May 20 2019 - 01:47

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View PostJer1413, on May 20 2019 - 01:06, said:

 

OMG you're a moron.

 

The first chart is a 59.8% win-rate player with an average tier of 7.48.

 

Second shows a 54.7% win-rate at an average tier of 7.41.

 

Third chart is a 49.8% player playing an average tier of 6.50.

 

It's the exact opposite of what you're saying. Go ask Neato, they're his charts.

 

 

 

you are wrong.

 

you are looking at the average of all the players, not the best performing player.



cheapbooks #274 Posted May 20 2019 - 01:48

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I showed that I outperform the high winrate players, doing more damage and kills, yet my WN8 is complete garbage and high winrate players have high WN8. please explain what I am missing.

_Tsavo_ #275 Posted May 20 2019 - 01:49

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You're deliberately being obtuse.  Stop grasping for boogiemen and outliers. 

 

You've demonstrated 4 tank stats, none of which are particularly great nor do you have noteworthy rankings in them.   These don't have any data to compare.   

 

The one you provided data for was an SPG, but no mention of battle count, you top his damage by about 250 and kill way less and assist way less.  Surprise, you're not killing targets as well or assisting the team as well as he is.    The top 3805 player probably toons as his numbers don't align with that win rate.  Without battle counts, I can't say.   Given his numbers, I'd guess 50% should be appropriate for mediocre tier 9 arty numbers. 


Edited by _Tsavo_, May 20 2019 - 01:56.


cheapbooks #276 Posted May 20 2019 - 01:56

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GW TIGER

 

RANK 154 - DAMAGE

RANK 163 - WOT RATING

RANK 194 - EXP

RANK 379 - KILLS

RANK 193 - SPOTTING

 

RANK 507 - WINRATE (40%)

 

TOP PLAYER 68% WINRATE

 

So explain why I rank high for damage, kills, and spotting, way higher than most other players, yet my winrate is at the absolute bottom? DO you think I am suiciding in my SPG at the start of the game? That super fast YOLO strategy with one of the slowest tanks in the game?

 

you have all brainwashed yourselves into thinking that winrate and WN8 = player skill when most of you are just stat padding.



Exiledcrow #277 Posted May 20 2019 - 02:00

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View Postcheapbooks, on May 20 2019 - 01:56, said:

GW TIGER

 

RANK 154 - DAMAGE

RANK 163 - WOT RATING

RANK 194 - EXP

RANK 379 - KILLS

RANK 193 - SPOTTING

 

RANK 507 - WINRATE (40%)

 

TOP PLAYER 68% WINRATE

 

So explain why I rank high for damage, kills, and spotting, way higher than most other players, yet my winrate is at the absolute bottom? DO you think I am suiciding in my SPG at the start of the game? That super fast YOLO strategy with one of the slowest tanks in the game?

 

you have all brainwashed yourselves into thinking that winrate and WN8 = player skill when most of you are just stat padding.

 

I think maybe it's you being too much of a chickens*** to face your own limitations. But sure, it's not YOU it's all the rest of us. :rolleyes:



_Tsavo_ #278 Posted May 20 2019 - 02:00

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View Postcheapbooks, on May 19 2019 - 19:56, said:

GW TIGER

 

RANK 154 - DAMAGE

RANK 163 - WOT RATING

RANK 194 - EXP

RANK 379 - KILLS

RANK 193 - SPOTTING

 

RANK 507 - WINRATE (40%)

 

TOP PLAYER 68% WINRATE

 

So explain why I rank high for damage, kills, and spotting, way higher than most other players, yet my winrate is at the absolute bottom? DO you think I am suiciding in my SPG at the start of the game? That super fast YOLO strategy with one of the slowest tanks in the game?

 

you have all brainwashed yourselves into thinking that winrate and WN8 = player skill when most of you are just stat padding.

 

I point out your high spots and low survival numbers and correlate that you're yolo scouting and blindly charging into enemies.   You retort with "BUT MUH ARTY,  SEE ME NO YOLO SCOUT"

 

Come on dude, stop deflecting and moving the goals. 

 

 

And ranking 150-something isn't high.   If the GW has 500 as a the 40% win rate pool, it reasons not many have 150, 500, month,  etc battles.   You're leaving data out deliberately.  Stop that. 


Edited by _Tsavo_, May 20 2019 - 02:02.


Copacetic #279 Posted May 20 2019 - 02:11

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damn this cheaptricks guy is stoooooopid

Jer1413 #280 Posted May 20 2019 - 02:27

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View Postcheapbooks, on May 19 2019 - 20:47, said:

 

you are wrong.

 

you are looking at the average of all the players, not the best performing player.

 

Those are charts for only three particular players. The first is one player with a 59.8% WR, the second is another with a 54.7% WR and the third is a 49.8% WR player.

 

What Neato is trying to convey with those charts, is that no matter the average skill of any particular player, when they play well they win more.

 

 






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