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winrate is not a reflection of player skill


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Taihbsear #321 Posted Jun 08 2019 - 14:40

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Your winrate depends on your teams.  There is no way to show your personnal winrate even if you are the best player as it is a team that wins not you.  Team loses you lose team wins you win.  The winrate is a load of crap

NeatoMan #322 Posted Jun 08 2019 - 15:13

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View PostTaihbsear, on Jun 08 2019 - 08:40, said:

Your winrate depends on your teams.  There is no way to show your personnal winrate even if you are the best player as it is a team that wins not you.  Team loses you lose team wins you win.  The winrate is a load of crap

 

It's like a tug of war.  If you let go of the rope every time, do you think your team will win or lose more often?  If you pull twice the weight of everyone else do you think your team will win or lose more often?  That's basically what win rate measures.  How often you let go of the rope vs how often you pull more than everyone else.

DeviouslyCursed #323 Posted Jun 08 2019 - 15:32

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View PostTaihbsear, on Jun 08 2019 - 14:40, said:

Your winrate depends on your teams.  There is no way to show your personnal winrate even if you are the best player as it is a team that wins not you.  Team loses you lose team wins you win.  The winrate is a load of crap

 

Then why do good players consistently win more?  (Warning: incoming crackpot conspiracy theory...)

 

Win rate is the best measure, for each tank, on how well you play that tank and help your teams win. No other measure is better. None.

 

The only issue with win rate is you can boost your account's win rates with certain tanks. That's why it is each tank's win rate on an individual basis that matters.



_Tsavo_ #324 Posted Jun 08 2019 - 15:32

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View PostTaihbsear, on Jun 08 2019 - 08:40, said:

Your winrate depends on your teams.  There is no way to show your personnal winrate even if you are the best player as it is a team that wins not you.  Team loses you lose team wins you win.  The winrate is a load of crap

 

Incorrect 

moogleslam #325 Posted Jun 08 2019 - 15:36

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View PostTaihbsear, on Jun 08 2019 - 09:40, said:

Your winrate depends on your teams.  There is no way to show your personnal winrate even if you are the best player as it is a team that wins not you.  Team loses you lose team wins you win.  The winrate is a load of crap

 

This is nonsense.  If you have read this topic thoroughly, you would have learned you're wrong many times over.

 

View PostDeviouslyCursed, on Jun 08 2019 - 10:32, said:

 

Win rate is the best measure, for each tank, on how well you play that tank and help your teams win. No other measure is better. None.

 

The only issue with win rate is you can boost your account's win rates with certain tanks. That's why it is each tank's win rate on an individual basis that matters.

 

The problem with this is that very few players have played enough battles in any one tank for it to be an accurate measure of their Win Rate in a tank.  You really need like 1000+ battles before it's worth looking at individual tank Win Rate.



DeviouslyCursed #326 Posted Jun 08 2019 - 15:44

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View Postmoogleslam, on Jun 08 2019 - 15:36, said:

 

The problem with this is that very few players have played enough battles in any one tank for it to be an accurate measure of their Win Rate in a tank.  You really need like 1000+ battles before it's worth looking at individual tank Win Rate.

 

It depends on the degree of separation. For instance, a baddie vs a good player is pretty obvious by about 100 to 200 battles. But if you're talking 1 - 4% difference, yeah, that will take 1k battles or more. You can, however, use groups of tanks. For instance you can see trends in people's accounts fairly easily, such as when playing non-OP tanks at higher tiers a player has below 50% win rates in most if not all that have a decent number of battles. Stat padding win rate is pretty obvious when it is done.

Guido1212 #327 Posted Jun 08 2019 - 16:09

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View PostTaihbsear, on Jun 08 2019 - 13:40, said:

Your winrate depends on your teams.  There is no way to show your personnal winrate even if you are the best player as it is a team that wins not you.  Team loses you lose team wins you win.  The winrate is a load of crap

 

You are correct for your skill and game ability.  You are incorrect for mine.

 

This is an incredibly important concept.  Once you unlock it's meaning you will understand so much more about this game.  This thread can actually help you if you read it.



_Tsavo_ #328 Posted Jun 08 2019 - 17:55

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I'm going to elaborate and explain what the ever awesome Guido is saying. 

 

When a player is not good they are reliant on their teams for success.  They give their HP away for little or no return, they go to poor positions, they miss shots, and generally are a burden on the team.   It's effectively 14 v 15, if you're on their team, Taihbsear. 

 

An average player is basically along for the ride.   They don't really influence games one way or another and when it comes to decision making to win, they usually can't.  They, however, generally aren't negatively impacting their games. 

 

As such, you are "correct" that your win rate is reliant on your teams.  On the opposite side of this coin, you are also incorrect.  Your win rate represents a consistency of poor choices that leaves your team less effective.  I don't know what those choices are, be it positioning poorly, wrong equipment /crew skill setups, only spamming HE since your aim is poor, poor aim, etc.  It could be one or more, but your consistent negative impact on your matches shows. 

 

You may have a stellar game and drag a team to victory, but it is not your usual performance. 

 

For Guido, or me, we're not reliant on our teams for wins, though we do have games where we get carried.  Such as the games you might carry, they are atypical results for us.   We go to good positions, make good shots, adapt and flex to the fight better, manage crew and shell choices better, and so on.  As such, we swing games towards a win consistently. 

 

If Guido takes 1,500 damage and dies in a match, he probably dealt 2,000 and killed 2.  That's 2 guys down and 500 extra HP traded for his HP and one life.   Now it's 14 v 13 in his favor.   Even more if he's not dead. 

 

Yes, win rate, on its own plinth, is not enough to indicate one's ability here.  That is why it is not measured on its own.  It is, however, a result of how well they influence games.

 

Even the tier 2 and 3 clubber consistently influences their games, but they are not equal to a Guido, or a Tsavo.   And a Tsavo is not equal to one of the dudes from MAHOU.   

 

So, yes, two players with 60% wins are not equal, but a 60% player versus a 44% player, there is a clear winner.   


Edited by _Tsavo_, Jun 08 2019 - 18:24.


NeatoMan #329 Posted Jun 08 2019 - 18:27

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View Post_Tsavo_, on Jun 08 2019 - 11:55, said:

I'm going to elaborate and explain what the ever awesome Guido is saying. 

 

When a player is not good they are reliant on their teams for success.  They give their HP away for little or go return, they go to poor positions, they miss shots, and generally are a burden on the team.   It's effectively 14 v 15, if you're on their team, Taihbsear. 

 

An average player is basically along for the ride.   They don't really influence games one way or another and when it comes to decision making to win, they usually can't.  They, however, generally aren't negatively impacting their games.

It's actually more nuanced than that.

 

Both good players and bad players influence their battles in a positive way.  The difference is how often they do versus how often they don't.   Bad players have good games.  They see them, but the ones that complain about win rate don't realize that they don't have them often enough. 



DeviouslyCursed #330 Posted Jun 08 2019 - 19:29

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View PostNeatoMan, on Jun 08 2019 - 18:27, said:

View Post_Tsavo_, on Jun 08 2019 - 11:55, said:

I'm going to elaborate and explain what the ever awesome Guido is saying. 

 

When a player is not good they are reliant on their teams for success.  They give their HP away for little or go return, they go to poor positions, they miss shots, and generally are a burden on the team.   It's effectively 14 v 15, if you're on their team, Taihbsear. 

 

An average player is basically along for the ride.   They don't really influence games one way or another and when it comes to decision making to win, they usually can't.  They, however, generally aren't negatively impacting their games.

It's actually more nuanced than that.

 

Both good players and bad players influence their battles in a positive way.  The difference is how often they do versus how often they don't.   Bad players have good games.  They see them, but the ones that complain about win rate don't realize that they don't have them often enough. 

 

Depends on how you define positive and negative influence. Positive in respect to the average, or positive in respect that it's better that they are there than not there at all.

 

Sadly, some people negatively affect their matches using either definition...


Edited by DeviouslyCursed, Jun 08 2019 - 19:30.


NeatoMan #331 Posted Jun 08 2019 - 19:55

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View PostDeviouslyCursed, on Jun 08 2019 - 13:29, said:

 

Depends on how you define positive and negative influence. Positive in respect to the average, or positive in respect that it's better that they are there than not there at all.

 

Sadly, some people negatively affect their matches using either definition...

Either works, but most people probably view it versus the server average.  Bad players win games with good performances too, they're just few and far between compared to good players.



Rutnick #332 Posted Jun 08 2019 - 20:13

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spoken like a true sub 50% player with a bad WN8

cheapbooks #333 Posted Jun 10 2019 - 04:46

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why is it that there are tons of people with high WN8 and high winrates, lots of super unicums, but most them have not earned an Object 260? if they are such great players they should have an object 260, plain and simple, and all of the missions would come easy to them.

 

stats from WG client:

- since dec 2014, only 359 players have played obj 260 the min required to appear in the leaderboard (150 battles) on NA

- in May 2019, only 46 players played the minimum (30 games)

 

I can't find the stat, but I once heard only 1% of players earn an object 260 (keep in mind I only need to complete 1 more mission to win mine).

 

I saw an old stat, more than a year ago, that only 400 or so people even own an object 260.

 

completing the campaign missions is one of the best indicators of player skill.

 



cheapbooks #334 Posted Jun 10 2019 - 04:49

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look at my 2018 january WN8 and winrate trends. I saw the graph once but could not find it for the purpose of this posting and have searched many times.

 

you will notice that in one day my WN8 and winrate jumped by at least 10%, which was the day I moved from Mexico to New York.

 

this trend continued until I left new york for the philippines, when therefor it must have gone down again

 

perhaps my skill went up by 10% when I moved to new york. and then my skill dropped by another 10% when I left?



cheapbooks #335 Posted Jun 10 2019 - 04:57

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under Achievement Ratings in the WG client for June 2019 (I dont know how to change the time period)

 

my winrate is 52% for june 2019

 

winrate: I am higher than 67% of all players

WOT rating: I am higher than 67% of all players

average damage: I am higher than 77% of all players

average experience: I am higher than 85% of all players

average damage assisted: I am higher than 94% of all players 

damage blocked: I am a top ranked player and rank #203, the % is not shown.

 


Edited by cheapbooks, Jun 10 2019 - 05:04.


cheapbooks #336 Posted Jun 10 2019 - 05:10

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December 2018

 

my winrate: 46%

winrate rank: not shown
avg dmg: greater than 70% of all players
avg exp: greater than 80% of all players
avg blocked: not shown
avg assistance: greater than 97% of all players (but everyone tells me I suck)



cheapbooks #337 Posted Jun 10 2019 - 05:13

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September  2018

 

my winrate: 100%

avg dmg: 139

 

This was clearly my beast month based on winrate. I was superunicum and ultra-violet. YOUR WELCOME NOOBS



Nixeldon #338 Posted Jun 10 2019 - 05:15

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Win rate is a direct measure of a player's ability to contribute toward winning matches. As such, a player's skill should determine his ability of winning a match. Your win rate is essentially a reflection of your probability of winning a match and is evidenced over time.

 

If what you are doing isn't producing more wins, you should try other options. No one is interested in "skills" that don't win matches.


Edited by Nixeldon, Jun 10 2019 - 05:17.


cheapbooks #339 Posted Jun 10 2019 - 05:16

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July  2018   <-- last month I lived in New York before moving to the philippines

 

my winrate: 40%

winrate rank: not shown
avg assistance: greater than 99% of all players 

 

so... being better than 99% of all players for spotting means I am a garbage player because I have a 40% winrate. I guess I did not do enough for team. I should find an unicum player to teach me the proper way to spot. and yes it was spotting damage, not tracking damage.

 

advice for clans: if you need a spotter, don't consider me because I have a garbage winrate, find someone  who is better than 99%. maybe someone form the clan UTTER or HVAC or RELISH, they are all better players I know cause I looked at their winrates

 

I apologize to all of my teams that I let down in terms of all those lost victories. I just don't pull my weight.


Edited by cheapbooks, Jun 10 2019 - 05:43.


cheapbooks #340 Posted Jun 10 2019 - 05:27

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since Dec 2014, all battles:

 

my winrate: 50.36%

avg dmg: greater than 73% of all players   <--- I can't fire my gun because I am spotting
avg exp: greater than 90% of all players

avg blocked: greater than 80% of all players  <-- I play weak armored tanks, using bushes for cover, close to enemy

avg assistance: greater than 96% of all players   <-- I like to spot

 

so there you have it. since dec 2014 my winrate is 50.36% but I have only been able to achieve better spotting than 96% of all players in 38,000 battles without re-rolling. you can take this opportunity to go to my youtube channel and post comments in all of my spotting videos as to what a sucky player I am and about how no one should watch my spotting videos.

 

one of you unicums has taken the liberty to notify me that one of my best spotting games ever was due to luck


Edited by cheapbooks, Jun 10 2019 - 05:45.





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