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Eve Online and WOT: same mistakes?


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Leo_Major1970 #1 Posted Apr 18 2019 - 03:46

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edited


Edited by Leo_Major1970, May 10 2019 - 23:37.


Atragon #2 Posted Apr 18 2019 - 04:00

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Panzerkind #3 Posted Apr 18 2019 - 04:29

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I think we veteran players are kind of out of touch with how brutal this game is on new players. You can only get seal-clubbed so many times before you get frustrated and uninstall. 

bad_73 #4 Posted Apr 18 2019 - 04:37

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The problem is they make a game,they find something that people like.So they make some money,employ more people who know nothing about the game itself.These people have to come up with new ideas...and that is the hard part and so now we have wot. 

Ratnikk #5 Posted Apr 18 2019 - 04:44

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The problem is the management, the game has balance issues but overall you can have fun. The marketing department took over and now theyre selling op premiums making tech tree vehicles useless. Cant have fun in wot after tier 7 unless you have a premium account and some paytowin vehicles. Each year more people leave and wargaming doesnt care, they just keep milking the NA population of their money selling overpriced pixel tanks. If NA dies they couldnt care less because they still have their massive cowmilk in Europe/Russia with millions of fanatics playing WOT. Its not for nothing that fortnite and apex legends are becoming the most massively played game, they are not paytowin like wot, its fair for all and the only things you can purchase are cosmetics. Wargaming went full paytowin and killed their game, at least in NA.

Nixeldon #6 Posted Apr 18 2019 - 04:45

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View PostCapitaine_Triquet, on Apr 17 2019 - 21:46, said:

"snip"

Anyone that disagrees with you is caustic. Got it.



tanopasman62 #7 Posted Apr 18 2019 - 05:10

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View PostPanzerkind, on Apr 18 2019 - 04:29, said:

I think we veteran players are kind of out of touch with how brutal this game is on new players. You can only get seal-clubbed so many times before you get frustrated and uninstall. 

 

Not to mention that getting off the early tiers is a rough grind for newcomers, you have nearly no resources to work with so a lot of folks just get tired of grinding forever and quit.

Pipinghot #8 Posted Apr 18 2019 - 05:13

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View PostCapitaine_Triquet, on Apr 17 2019 - 21:46, said:

I've mentioned in other posts I've made about WOT and Eve Online doing the same mistakes.  I took a peek at Eve Online forums and stumbled across this post that is 26 days old but still up in the Eve Forums:

One would really have to bend over backwards to try to compare WoT and EO.

1) They're both MMO's

2) They're both more than 8 years since their pubic release (already this is a stretch, WoT was released in RU in August of 2010 while Eve was released in May of 2003, a full 7 years earlier. Comparing a game that's 8.5 years old to one that's almost 16 years old is quite a stretch.

3) They're both highly competitive.

4) And... that's pretty much it. There are many more ways that the games are different than alike, the very idea of trying to compare the two is rather silly.

 

The greatest, and most fundamental difference between the two games is that in WoT you never lose anything you have already earned. Once you have unlocked a tank it's unlocked forever. When you have skilled crews they're yours forever. When you have tanks in your garage they're in your garage for ever. In Eve you can lose everything, years of work completely gone, *poof*. There are games that can be compared to Eve, and games that can be compared to WoT, but Eve and WoT don't even belong in the same conversation.

View PostCapitaine_Triquet, on Apr 17 2019 - 21:46, said:

Eve is fading away.  I've been playing eve online since 2003 and the mistakes that WOT is doing are discouragingly similar if not totally similar to Eve Online.  An MMO is an MMO and all of them starts, thrive, stagnate and fade away.  There is a reason for this: elitism.

WoT could do a better job of initiating new players, it has always has a painful experience for new players, which has always hurt their numbers in the NA market (this hasn't been a problem at all in the RU and China markets, where dog-eat-dog games are more a normal part of their culture). Wargaming has definitely had a problem understanding why they are so weak in the NA market, then again it's not like NA is the biggest market in the world for games anymore. The gaming market is truly global, and if NA players expect every game to match the NA idea of what makes a game good then they're doomed to more and more disappointment in the coming years.

 

But at the end of the day, WoT is a game about competition. Some people are going to win, some are going to lose, and people who don't like to admit they're losing because they're not as good as other players are always going to be unhappy with that situation, WoT is all about competition. Whether you learn that lesson a Tier I or at Tier X the lesson still has to be learned. Better players are going to win more often and worse players are going to win less often, that's just how it works in competitive games.

View PostCapitaine_Triquet, on Apr 17 2019 - 21:46, said:

Eve Online gave everything to hardcore Corporations (clans) and elite players.  If you aim at satisfying the few you end up decapitating the many.

Anyone who thinks that WoT 'gives everything to the hardcore clans and elite players' has completely failed to understand the game. This game is hard to get good at and hard to win, but it is also a game that makes every bit of content available to every player - good players, bad players, free players, paying players. Every single person in this game has access to Clan Wars, Skirmishes, Front Lines, etc., all of the content is open to all players. The only thing that WoT truly gives to elite players is a higher Win Rate, and even then it doesn't "give" it to them they have to earn it.

 

For starters this is a game made up of 15 person teams, and that means that it's impossible to have a win rate below 40% (over the long run) no matter how bad someone is. A person could essentially go AFK for ever single battle they've ever played and they will still get a 40% Win Rate, because that's what happens when you have large teams like WoT. There are a lot of bad players, some of them truly awful, who have win rates much higher than they deserve if you just look at their contributions to their teams. And yet they still have Win Rates in the 40's, which gives them a lot of XP and credits from the +50% bonus every time they get a victory that they don't deserve. Every bad player in this game is subsidized by every good player, that is nearly the opposite of 'giving everything' to elite players. Having large teams gives bad players extra victories they haven't earned, and makes it significantly harder for good players to earn higher win rates.

 

Then there is the "team pool" of XP and credits in every battle. Even the least useful person on a team gets and equal share of the team pool. Most bad players never realize that this is a huge benefit to them. Other people carry them, other people do the damage and get the kills, meanwhile the bad players still collect an equal portion of the team pool. That is also nearly the opposite of 'giving everything' to elite players.

 

The only thing that bad players have "decapitated" is their Win Rate, and even that isn't truly decapitated because (again) the large team sizes give them lots of victories they haven't earned and don't deserve. Anyone who calls having a 45% Win Rate being "decapitated" has zero understanding of how this game works.

 

Furthermore, the tradeoff between being a free player and being a paying player is pretty reasonable. The extra 50% XP and credits that premium players get is not crippling to free players, there are people who have never spent money on this game who are members of top ranked clans. That's something you don't see in almost any other games, where people either need to spend money to gain access to content that's behind a paywall, or where it's simply impossible to earn the rewards necessary to advance to the end game content without spending money. WoT is much more accessible to free players than most other Free-to-Play titles on the market. Your chosen comparison, Eve Online, has content hidden behind a pay wall whereas WoT leaves the content open to everyone. Yet again, that is nearly the opposite of 'giving everything to top clans and elite players', that's simply not how this game works.

View PostCapitaine_Triquet, on Apr 17 2019 - 21:46, said:

This is the life cycle of most MMO's and RPG's I've come across so far.

That's backwards, almost every MMO that has ever been published has had just the opposite progression. Almost all MMO's start off being more difficult, more harcore, and then as time goes by they look for ways to make their game have more appeal for a larger audience. Most of the time this means that the early adopters complain about games being "dumbed down" to increase their mass appeal. Whether you agree that making a game more accessible is the same as dumbing it down is a separate conversation, but the point is that this is how almost every MMO progresses over time, that's been part of the life cycle of MMO's since the very beginning and is still happening to most MMO's today.

View PostCapitaine_Triquet, on Apr 17 2019 - 21:46, said:

Eve Online forums were at best extremely caustic and this is also happening in WOT and that is not a very good sign.

It's not "happening" to WoT, these forums have been heavily contested since Day 1. Anyone who thinks these forums are more caustic than they used to be needs to go back and start reading the forums from the beginning. WoT is highly competitive, lots of people hate losing, lots of people who hate losing start threads on the forums, and then there are arguments over whether the game is to blame or the individual players are responsible. That is a guaranteed formula for lots of salt and lots of caustic discussions, and that's how the WoT forums have been from the very beginning. This is a highly competitive game, anyone who expects a low quotient of salt and caustic conversations is pretty darned naive.

View PostCapitaine_Triquet, on Apr 17 2019 - 21:46, said:

On an ending note on this topic, I can only state this.  If average players are bringing their griefs about the game in the WOT forums and are being crushed by hardcore players posts you are close to a tipping line.

Again, nothing new, you need to go read a bunch of the conversations from 2011/2012 to gain some perspective.

 

Mind you, I'm not saying that WoT is perfect, I'm not saying that the forums are perfect, what I'm saying is that your analysis of the forums is deeply flawed and you're looking at the past through rose colored lenses.

View PostCapitaine_Triquet, on Apr 17 2019 - 21:46, said:

I am not really interested in your caustics replies.

Then you shouldn't post on a public forum. Everyone else has just as much right to reply as you have to post. If you don't want replies then send a private ticket to Wargaming.

View PostCapitaine_Triquet, on Apr 17 2019 - 21:46, said:

Like I said I am a veteran of Eve Online forums and I've been demolished a long ago and I've learned the very hard way how to survive in an MMO forum turning viciously caustic.

It sounds like you can't tell the difference between being debunked and people being "caustic". Frankly your OP is almost entirely misguided and/or wrong, if you want to describe that honest debunking of your post as "caustic" then go ahead and hide behind your adjectives. After all, if you can pretend to yourself that other people are "the bad guys" you never have to listen or learn.



Leo_Major1970 #9 Posted Apr 18 2019 - 06:21

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View PostAtragon, on Apr 17 2019 - 22:00, said:

 

Edited


Edited by Leo_Major1970, May 10 2019 - 23:41.


Leo_Major1970 #10 Posted Apr 18 2019 - 11:48

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View PostPipinghot, on Apr 17 2019 - 23:13, said:

One would really have to bend over backwards to try to compare WoT and EO.

1) They're both MMO's

2) They're both more than 8 years since their pubic release (already this is a stretch, WoT was released in RU in August of 2010 while Eve was released in May of 2003, a full 7 years earlier. Comparing a game that's 8.5 years old to one that's almost 16 years old is quite a stretch.

3) They're both highly competitive.

4) And... that's pretty much it. There are many more ways that the games are different than alike, the very idea of trying to compare the two is rather silly.

 

The greatest, and most fundamental difference between the two games is that in WoT you never lose anything you have already earned. Once you have unlocked a tank it's unlocked forever. When you have skilled crews they're yours forever. When you have tanks in your garage they're in your garage for ever. In Eve you can lose everything, years of work completely gone, *poof*. There are games that can be compared to Eve, and games that can be compared to WoT, but Eve and WoT don't even belong in the same conversation.

WoT could do a better job of initiating new players, it has always has a painful experience for new players, which has always hurt their numbers in the NA market (this hasn't been a problem at all in the RU and China markets, where dog-eat-dog games are more a normal part of their culture). Wargaming has definitely had a problem understanding why they are so weak in the NA market, then again it's not like NA is the biggest market in the world for games anymore. The gaming market is truly global, and if NA players expect every game to match the NA idea of what makes a game good then they're doomed to more and more disappointment in the coming years.

 

But at the end of the day, WoT is a game about competition. Some people are going to win, some are going to lose, and people who don't like to admit they're losing because they're not as good as other players are always going to be unhappy with that situation, WoT is all about competition. Whether you learn that lesson a Tier I or at Tier X the lesson still has to be learned. Better players are going to win more often and worse players are going to win less often, that's just how it works in competitive games.

Anyone who thinks that WoT 'gives everything to the hardcore clans and elite players' has completely failed to understand the game. This game is hard to get good at and hard to win, but it is also a game that makes every bit of content available to every player - good players, bad players, free players, paying players. Every single person in this game has access to Clan Wars, Skirmishes, Front Lines, etc., all of the content is open to all players. The only thing that WoT truly gives to elite players is a higher Win Rate, and even then it doesn't "give" it to them they have to earn it.

 

For starters this is a game made up of 15 person teams, and that means that it's impossible to have a win rate below 40% (over the long run) no matter how bad someone is. A person could essentially go AFK for ever single battle they've ever played and they will still get a 40% Win Rate, because that's what happens when you have large teams like WoT. There are a lot of bad players, some of them truly awful, who have win rates much higher than they deserve if you just look at their contributions to their teams. And yet they still have Win Rates in the 40's, which gives them a lot of XP and credits from the +50% bonus every time they get a victory that they don't deserve. Every bad player in this game is subsidized by every good player, that is nearly the opposite of 'giving everything' to elite players. Having large teams gives bad players extra victories they haven't earned, and makes it significantly harder for good players to earn higher win rates.

 

Then there is the "team pool" of XP and credits in every battle. Even the least useful person on a team gets and equal share of the team pool. Most bad players never realize that this is a huge benefit to them. Other people carry them, other people do the damage and get the kills, meanwhile the bad players still collect an equal portion of the team pool. That is also nearly the opposite of 'giving everything' to elite players.

 

The only thing that bad players have "decapitated" is their Win Rate, and even that isn't truly decapitated because (again) the large team sizes give them lots of victories they haven't earned and don't deserve. Anyone who calls having a 45% Win Rate being "decapitated" has zero understanding of how this game works.

 

Furthermore, the tradeoff between being a free player and being a paying player is pretty reasonable. The extra 50% XP and credits that premium players get is not crippling to free players, there are people who have never spent money on this game who are members of top ranked clans. That's something you don't see in almost any other games, where people either need to spend money to gain access to content that's behind a paywall, or where it's simply impossible to earn the rewards necessary to advance to the end game content without spending money. WoT is much more accessible to free players than most other Free-to-Play titles on the market. Your chosen comparison, Eve Online, has content hidden behind a pay wall whereas WoT leaves the content open to everyone. Yet again, that is nearly the opposite of 'giving everything to top clans and elite players', that's simply not how this game works.

That's backwards, almost every MMO that has ever been published has had just the opposite progression. Almost all MMO's start off being more difficult, more harcore, and then as time goes by they look for ways to make their game have more appeal for a larger audience. Most of the time this means that the early adopters complain about games being "dumbed down" to increase their mass appeal. Whether you agree that making a game more accessible is the same as dumbing it down is a separate conversation, but the point is that this is how almost every MMO progresses over time, that's been part of the life cycle of MMO's since the very beginning and is still happening to most MMO's today.

It's not "happening" to WoT, these forums have been heavily contested since Day 1. Anyone who thinks these forums are more caustic than they used to be needs to go back and start reading the forums from the beginning. WoT is highly competitive, lots of people hate losing, lots of people who hate losing start threads on the forums, and then there are arguments over whether the game is to blame or the individual players are responsible. That is a guaranteed formula for lots of salt and lots of caustic discussions, and that's how the WoT forums have been from the very beginning. This is a highly competitive game, anyone who expects a low quotient of salt and caustic conversations is pretty darned naive.

Again, nothing new, you need to go read a bunch of the conversations from 2011/2012 to gain some perspective.

 

Mind you, I'm not saying that WoT is perfect, I'm not saying that the forums are perfect, what I'm saying is that your analysis of the forums is deeply flawed and you're looking at the past through rose colored lenses.

Then you shouldn't post on a public forum. Everyone else has just as much right to reply as you have to post. If you don't want replies then send a private ticket to Wargaming.

It sounds like you can't tell the difference between being debunked and people being "caustic". Frankly your OP is almost entirely misguided and/or wrong, if you want to describe that honest debunking of your post as "caustic" then go ahead and hide behind your adjectives. After all, if you can pretend to yourself that other people are "the bad guys" you never have to listen or learn.

 

edited


Edited by Leo_Major1970, May 10 2019 - 23:37.


_Tsavo_ #11 Posted Apr 18 2019 - 12:00

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View PostCapitaine_Triquet, on Apr 18 2019 - 00:21, said:

 

 

 

(Since you are probably a complete moron in general, I just told you that you are a chimp.  I am born again Christian so I don't believe in the theory of evolution and you just prove it to me with your dumb reply.  In general, Christians aren't supposed to insult other people but I had a really tough day and you seem like a good candidate to hear my gibes, insults and other enchanting things I can throw at people of your kind once and a while.).

 

Aren't you a pleasant one.   Misguided as well. 


Edited by _Tsavo_, Apr 18 2019 - 12:06.


latvius #12 Posted Apr 18 2019 - 16:15

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I don't play EVE but looked into it a long time ago.  The difference I can see is in EVE you are rewarded for starting early in the game development which makes it hard for new players to catch up.  This is not the same in WOT.  The game is a 10-15 minute match, that's it.  Sure your stats follow you, your tanks follow you and the more you play the more tanks you have access too, but it still just a 10-15 minute match.

Your avatar can quickly be improved to match a veteran player so you are on a level playing field, the difference will be in skill level.

 

As far as elitism, I dunno it's really just a perception, I think the community puts way to much emphasis on stats.  It's especially humorous considering the game has ton's of variables and unbalances abound.  That's not to say certain players have access to things that other's don't, it's a level playing field in that respect.

 

As to the forums, I think what you are trying to say is you want constructive responses not like the first response you received.  I think that issue is in every forum, people want to try and be funny or cruel and sometimes it is worth a laugh but often when a poster has taken the time to write something intelligent it is annoying at best.  You responding to them by insulting them back is not helpful, it just takes away from the points you are tying to make and is a tit for tat.  Simply reply by asking for a serious response if they have one, or just ignore it.



Copacetic #13 Posted Apr 18 2019 - 21:24

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View PostCapitaine_Triquet, on Apr 18 2019 - 06:21, said:

 

I've been reading this kind of reply since 2003, 2004, 2005... Make you wonder about the validity of the theory on the evolution of mankind...  My personal diagnostic as a player is that you can't dig it.  You cant dig differences of opinions besides what you are doing yourself and if you look closely at your behavior in the game, you are probably as stagnant and puerile as you are outside this game.  Your turning in circles aside from the theory of evolution of mankind.

 

JamX & De Leon - Can U Dig It

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpJZVFtnu8k

 

(Since you are probably a complete moron in general, I just told you that you are a chimp.  I am born again Christian so I don't believe in the theory of evolution and you just prove it to me with your dumb reply.  In general, Christians aren't supposed to insult other people but I had a really tough day and you seem like a good candidate to hear my gibes, insults and other enchanting things I can throw at people of your kind once and a while.).

 

Well im a christian too and agree evolution is debunked by scientific data (lack of transitional species etc.) Your post insulting piping is uncalled for and frankly embarrassing. Piping is spot on with his assessment of both games.

Edited by Copacetic, Apr 18 2019 - 21:26.


Tolos #14 Posted Apr 18 2019 - 21:37

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View Posttanopasman62, on Apr 18 2019 - 04:10, said:

 

Not to mention that getting off the early tiers is a rough grind for newcomers, you have nearly no resources to work with so a lot of folks just get tired of grinding forever and quit.

 

Oh please, it's MUCH easier now for new players than it was when some of us started. Now you have streamers/wiki/guides, some of us didn't have any of those when we started. 

Leo_Major1970 #15 Posted Apr 19 2019 - 01:26

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View PostNixeldon, on Apr 17 2019 - 22:45, said:

Anyone that disagrees with you is caustic. Got it.

 

edited

Edited by Leo_Major1970, May 10 2019 - 23:38.


Leo_Major1970 #16 Posted Apr 19 2019 - 01:30

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View PostCopacetic, on Apr 18 2019 - 15:24, said:

 

Well im a christian too and agree evolution is debunked by scientific data (lack of transitional species etc.) Your post insulting piping is uncalled for and frankly embarrassing. Piping is spot on with his assessment of both games.

 

edited

Edited by Leo_Major1970, May 10 2019 - 23:38.


Pipinghot #17 Posted Apr 19 2019 - 11:26

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View PostCapitaine_Triquet, on Apr 18 2019 - 05:48, said:

The first thing that comes to me reading your post is "game mechanics".  All games, whether it may be an MMO, RPG, First Shooters, etc. all have game mechanics and MMO's all have similar game mechanics when you are finished scratching the surface of things.

What? No, that's not true. Some games have things in common, for example all first person shooters have obvious similarities, but to say that "MMO's all have similar game mechanics" makes no sense at all, especially not when "you are finished scratching the surface of things". Some MMO's are similar to some other MMO's, but that's as far as it goes.

View PostCapitaine_Triquet, on Apr 18 2019 - 05:48, said:

From there, you are better equipped to identify the problems that are affecting WOT right now.

That's true, as long as you actually understand how the game mechanics work and the reasons why they work that way, and a lot of people don't understand those things. A lot of the complaints about WoT are nothing more than people who never bothered to learn how the game works and they're unhappy that they can't win more often. Most games make it easy for people to win more, most games coddle people and work hard to make sure they always have just the right amount of difficulty to succeed most of the time. But WoT is a game of competition, the whole game is people competing against other people, and that means that half of the people are going to lose more often than they win. Some people think that's a flaw with WoT, other people enjoy the competition and it's a big part of what they enjoy about the game.

View PostCapitaine_Triquet, on Apr 18 2019 - 05:48, said:

The second thing that I get is that you think falsely that WOT is not elitist.

It's not elitist it's competitive, those are not the same thing.

View PostCapitaine_Triquet, on Apr 18 2019 - 05:48, said:

WOT is becoming more and more elitist.

If you believe that then you don't understand the history of the game. WoT has always been extremely competitive, right from the very beginning.

View PostCapitaine_Triquet, on Apr 18 2019 - 05:48, said:

There is a reason for this (at least in the minds of the developers): emulation.  You put the spotlights on your best players and everyone wants to be like "them".  There are the "us" average players and there is "them", the elite players.  And like it or not I see adds on the game launchers about elite clans and hardcore players streaming on Twitch.  Why do you think that the Devs of WOT are making all this publicity about Twitch Prime?  Yes, on one side it's good because it promotes the game to other players in the community that has not heard of WOT and can see the very best players of WOT competing against each other.

True, just like most other games, especially games that are based on competitions. Putting spotlights on the best players and clans is something WoT has always done, again you seem to not be aware of the history of the game. Wargaming used to push very hard for WoT to be part of eSports, something they don't do any more. If anything Wargaming spends less time and money putting the spotlights on elite players and clans nowadays than they used to.

 

No one is going to promote a feature saying, "Here is out most average player, let's interview him and do a feature on him." No one is going to pick a clan that has a 15% Win Rate in Clan Wars and do a feature saying, "This is the worst clan in Clan Wars, this week we're going to find out how they manage to be that bad, and ask them what they do to make sure their team fails every week". No game ever does that. Of course Wargaming tries to push emulation, just like every other competitive game. League of Legends does it, DOTA does it, most FPS's do it, even RPG MMO's like WoW do it.

View PostCapitaine_Triquet, on Apr 18 2019 - 05:48, said:

But if you enter full-blown into elitism and neglect the majority of players you are not heading into the right direction.  On the other side, maybe that is what they want.  Flood the game with hardcore gamers and those who don't, won't or can't follow are out.

Again, all of the content of WoT is available to all players. And again, bad players are subsidized by good players. Bad players get credits they didn't earn, XP they didn't earn and victories they didn't earn, if you think that is "elitism" then there are some problems with your logic.

View PostCapitaine_Triquet, on Apr 18 2019 - 05:48, said:

PS.  Thank you for your honest and generous answer.

You're welcome. Even when we argue on the forums we are all (I hope) arguing for good reasons, and trying to help each other achieve a better understanding of the game.


Edited by Pipinghot, Apr 21 2019 - 00:24.


Mister_Avnas #18 Posted Apr 19 2019 - 22:16

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View PostCapitaine_Triquet, on Apr 18 2019 - 02:46, said:

I've mentioned in other posts I've made about WOT and Eve Online doing the same mistakes.  I took a peek at Eve Online forums and stumbled across this post that is 26 days old but still up in the Eve Forums:

 

WHAT IS THE CURRENT STATE OF EVE?

https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-eve/147901

 

Eve is fading away.  I've been playing eve online since 2003 and the mistakes that WOT is doing are discouragingly similar if not totally similar to Eve Online.  An MMO is an MMO and all of them starts, thrive, stagnate and fade away.  There is a reason for this: elitism.  Eve Online gave everything to hardcore Corporations (clans) and elite players.  If you aim at satisfying the few you end up decapitating the many.  This is the life cycle of most MMO's and RPG's I've come across so far.

 

I am exactly in the same position as this fellow in his post in Eve forums.  I have an old account and I've been on and off Eve for years.  I've learned the hard way how to survive on Eve Online forums that were at one time a full-contact sport.  Eve Online forums were at best extremely caustic and this is also happening in WOT and that is not a very good sign.

 

On an ending note on this topic, I can only state this.  If average players are bringing their griefs about the game in the WOT forums and are being crushed by hardcore players posts you are close to a tipping line.

 

Personally, I basically stopped playing WOT when the new MM templates started to send my Premium Tier8 tanks against Tier10 tanks systematically.  I had fun for 3 or 4 days and then everything went sideways.  Those Tier8 only games were beautiful to the eye.  Like something fresh had happened in the game I was waiting for a long time to append.  It lasted 3 or 4 days and then everything went sideways like it just melted away leaving a very bad tasted in my mouth.

 

I am not really interested in your caustics replies. Like I said I am a veteran of Eve Online forums and I've been demolished a long ago and I've learned the very hard way how to survive in an MMO forum turning viciously caustic.

What is the current state of EVE?

 

 

a lot of the 'hardcore players' are just 1-line/back line campers who pad stats. really the reason this game feels worse than it did is because everyone is modding the game to [edited]and using statistics rather than just shooting with tank.



Tolos #19 Posted Apr 19 2019 - 22:33

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View PostMister_Avnas, on Apr 19 2019 - 21:16, said:

 

 

a lot of the 'hardcore players' are just 1-line/back line campers who pad stats. really the reason this game feels worse than it did is because everyone is modding the game to [edited]and using statistics rather than just shooting with tank.

 

 

I'm hoping this is a troll, and that you're not that stupid. 



Mister_Avnas #20 Posted Apr 19 2019 - 22:37

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View PostTolos, on Apr 19 2019 - 21:33, said:

 

 

I'm hoping this is a troll, and that you're not that stupid. 

 

i might not be talking about you specifically, but i've seen an increasing amount of people that talk crapin chat all game about what XVM says about win % chance while not achieving anything sat in the corner of the map, apparently because they're either trying to get that one medal where you're against the entire team or increase their damage ratio (essentially padding stats by not participating efficiently)




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