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Wheeled Vehicles have killed this for me


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Dodforer #1 Posted Apr 21 2019 - 07:42

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I tried creating a ticket for this but your ticket system has been experiencing problems for the last 4 days....

 

My issue is with the Wheeled Vehicles introduced into the game in the last couple of months.  The mechanics of these vehicles and Wargaming's seemingly complete lack of care to the players voicing these issues has led me to believe that I should no longer spend any money on your game or services.  From my point of view, here's what you've done:

 

1. Introduced a vehicle that has nothing but bonuses and no flaws based on current mechanics.

 

2. Introduced a vehicle which seriously imbalances the overall game and matchmaking.

 

3. Applied mechanics to a vehicle, which if a player used a mod to produce the same capabilities on another tank, they would be banned.

 

Wheeled vehicles have speed in excess of anything else at their equal level with the possible exception of tier 6, the first wheeled vehicle.  You removed the normal physics which are in effect on tanks and causes them to flip over.  These wheeled vehicles don't even have to get the silhouette of their target to "lock-on", yet other players have to try and get the silhouette of these wheeled vehicles moving at ridiculous speeds.  You added the equivalent of an aimbot to allow the vehicle to hit its target at the high speeds it moves at.  It also seems like you added some kind of armor modification which basically makes these vehicles impervious to most tanks shells.

 

I have heard numerous complaints and experienced myself 122mm AP rounds bouncing off the broadside of the equivalent of an armored Volkswagen.  These things had 40mm of armor at their most heavily armored front, and only 20mm on the sides. So how does a 122mm shell with penetration of 175mm bounce off of 20mm of armor?  I challenge you to take a tape measure, put your left index finger on the 2cm mark(the armor value), then run your right index finger out to the 17.5cm mark(the Penetration value) and explain how a shell, fired flat broadside into this bounces.  You can't with a straight face or with any integrity.  Yet interestingly enough, these wheeled vehicles seem to be able to destroy pretty much anything they face with impunity.  

 

I've watched and felt these things penetrate armor there's no way their specifications say they should be able to.  And almost no vehicle can traverse both their vehicle and turret fast enough to kill one of these things under 150 meters away.  They can literally just sit 20 meters away and drive around any vehicle in a circle and kill it while the other tank is helpless, and they can do this pretty much at will since you have no way of knowing where they are until they're on you.

 

To make matters worse, these vehicles are almost impossible to "track" like most tanks.  A single tire hit doesn't slow them down at all and it's fully repaired within seconds.  I've watched these things drive right through an arty barrage and airstrikes on Frontline and not slow down at all.  I've seen magazine-fed french artillery drop round after round to no effect at all on health or mobility and now you're going to further hinder arty ability to damage these things by reducing their splash output.  By the time most players reload the next round(even magazine loaders) the wheeled vehicle is gone and can't be hit again.  Once its wheel is damaged, the driver simply has to keep going and wait a couple of seconds for the wheel to repair itself, while moving at full speed, no repair kit is ever needed to repair a tire, they repair to 100% every time, I've watched mine do it in Frontline a few times.

 

I have the Tier 6 version and I bought the gold EBR 75 at a nice discount during its challenge.  These vehicles are bad enough as the base stock models, but once higher rated players moved 4-6 perk skill crews into them, these things became complete cancer on the game, far worse than anything people say about artillery.  

 

For a developer that claims to have "historically accurate" tanks, you've been exceeding wrong on several aspects of this vehicle.  While these vehicles could achieve high speeds both forward and backward, it was only in straight lines, they couldn't maneuver at those speeds.  The weight of these vehicles is about half of what your details show in-game.  This artificial weight buffing has allowed them to survive ramming that should have killed them on numerous occasions.  There's more, but what's the point?

 

Your ill thought out implementation of this vehicle has also spilled over into Front Line and destroyed that most promising mode.  How is it right that 3 players platoon up with these wheeled vehicles and are into the cap circle with a 15-second timer before the other team is even halfway to the cap?  Your system doesn't make sure the opposing team has the same makeup in the zone, so there's no way to counter this.  There is also no way to counter a vehicle which can go behind a zone marker which is off-limits, kill an artillery player at the back of that off-limits zone and be out of the off-limits zone before the punishment for going off-limits is even implemented.  I've tried to produce the same thing with a light tank with no luck, only with wheeled vehicles.

 

Artillery isn't allowed to platoon and queue up, yet you allow 3 of any other vehicles to queue up together.  3 of anything platooned is a menace.  Consider 3 French magazine loading lights, 3 Type 5 Heavies, 3 Italian Progrettos, 3 TD's like the FV4005 or FV21's.  None of those are good for matchmaking, but 3 wheeled vehicles are more malignant than any disease. 

 

If I used a mod to make it so I didn't have to right-click on a vehicle to target it, would I get banned?  Yes.

 

If I used a mod that adjusted aim for movement, would I get banned?  Yes.

 

If I used a mod that rendered my tank almost impervious to the game physics restrictions of other vehicles, would I get banned? Yes.

 

Prior to wheeled vehicles, I enjoyed the game, there were frustrating occasions, but overall I enjoyed the game.  I've reached the point that frustration is the normal and enjoyment is rare.  I have premium time still held over from the Christmas holiday event and once that's gone I will no longer be putting any money into your game or company.   This game will go into the dustbin and remain there until wheeled vehicles are corrected or I simply forget about it altogether.  I see no reason to bang my head against a wall and frustrate myself for your mistakes. Many players told you during testing these things were an issue, yet you didn't listen.  Now you lose my business.


Edited by Dodforer, Apr 21 2019 - 07:44.


Michelin2433 #2 Posted Apr 21 2019 - 08:20

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wot and wg are just fubar, wheels or nah

Ratnikk #3 Posted Apr 21 2019 - 10:07

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Dont bother because wargaming knows some of their vehicles are OP and they still sell them, why else would anyone buy them? They know and then they make fun of everyone in their premium shop just like when they sold the lefefe, they advertised is as ''highest damage, highest view range and fastest reload'', not caring that this vehicle can destroy entire teams at their tier easily.

daddy_druid #4 Posted Apr 21 2019 - 10:45

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I came on the forum tonight, after several weeks/months now of suffering in games that have wheeled vehicles in the opposition. I am now regularly Exiting the game early when the opposition have wheeled vehicles, especially when they have two or more of them; as it a guarantee of a Loss and usually frustrating engagement if locked in combat with them - regardless of what type of tank (TD, Heavy, Light, Medium) or even if two tiers higher. 

 

Coincidence that I found this thread and Dodforer's comments at the top of the forum page tonight - after quite a few weeks of not being on here at all.  I totally echo Dodforer's comments & frustrations; and offer the same reaction.  Well said, that player.

 

It is so frustrating playing in games with wheeled vehicles that I exit the whole game very early (close it down), and go and play something else instead (Armoured Warfare normally).

 

It's become a standing joke in the Random Battles I've played that if the enemy have wheeled vehicles still alive after the first 90sec of a game; then they are going to win by a margin... ALWAYS!

 

How can a Tier 8 Premium Heavy with high alpha (against even TDs of equal tier) needs at least 6 shots on-target against a wheeled vehicle one or two tiers below them in order to kill them?... whilst they can kill me in less shots than I need!!

 

WG - you are about to loose another long-term - average - player who needs a Premium account just to play at T7/8 without making a loss! 

Yes, I am that "average" player, who plays for "fun" and "relaxation".  Two aspects that cannot be said of WoT any longer, I'm afraid. I get enough stress at work to voluntarily want to endure more during my relaxing time.

 

Bye-bye to that nice regular income, WG.

 

PS. And then I watched QuickyBaby's vid on nerfing artillery - the only sane and unfrustrating style to play in the game until now. (Yeah, I play arty as anything else is just too hard to bear).


Edited by daddy_druid, Apr 21 2019 - 10:57.


An_old_slow_guy #5 Posted Apr 21 2019 - 12:01

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I'm about to sh*tcan this game too.  Some smart wheelie drivers have figured how to easily farm the attacking side's arty. They wait till the zone bombardment ends then cruise past token opposition to penetrate deep in the rear, locate arty and you're essentially done playing arty that match.  Only way to avoid them is stay so far back you're of little use to your team.  It's actually become safer to play arty on defense than offense.  I figured out how to stay safe on both sides, in all zones, but I essentially lose about 2-3K damage and a whole 16 round reload.  So now I have to settle for lieutenant or captain instead of major or general.  Basically also means I have to play twice as many frontline games to advance now. BS! People complain about arty because it's not realistic - those wheelies are about as far from normal armored combat as it comes.   They got rid of the Waffentiger autoloader - time to get rid of these crazy wheelies too. I really don't understand why they have to gradually deprecate/nerf a vehicle into oblivion. Better to just get rid of it and compensate the longtime arty players with free experience, gold,  or a new vehicle instead of making arty a farce to play.

 



Maltfourti #6 Posted Apr 21 2019 - 14:36

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Frontline and EBR's have made this clear to me. I have bounced every kind of round off EBR's. Which is utter [edited].

The_Iron_Bullet #7 Posted Apr 21 2019 - 15:02

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The auto-aim the wheeled vehicles use is not aimbot, aimbot gives lead to the target, auto-aim does not. I do agree the wheel armor is too much, but if you shoot a part of the wheel below the hull, it won't do damage. I can kind of agree to limit them in platoons. I do agree that something has to be nerfed, HE pen or gun stats because these can hit 300 meters away going 80.

Mister_Avnas #8 Posted Apr 21 2019 - 15:14

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wheeled vehicles have low hp and no armor, ive seen them blow themselves up more than them blow up enemy

beowulf999 #9 Posted Apr 21 2019 - 15:35

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I agree with the poster that wheeled vehicles are too OP.  Every other vehicle has a weakness and a strength.  Light tanks have poor armor, penetration, and can be tracked which generally kills them as they then get hit again quickly.  They have good spotting passively, good concealment, and good speed.  Medium tanks are well, medium, in their stats and abilities.  They generally cannot get into a slugging match with a heavy though.  Heavies are slow but have great armor and (generally) good guns.  TD's have good concealment, excellent armor, and good guns, but the ones that are the best in this role, also have fixed guns (not turreted), and side and rear armor that can be much more easily penetrated.  Artillery has thin "armor", is susceptible to HE rounds, and usually a pretty slow reload time, they are also terrible at direct fire so if you get close to one it is usually dead.  They have the ability to hit targets (behind hard cover) that no one else has.  Everything has strengths and weaknesses, that is how you balance a game, make sure that nothing is best at everything.

 

Wheeled vehicles, in my experience, do not have any weakness, only strengths.  When I shoot at them it is only luck that I hit them, people say to get better at shooting.  How does "get better" at shooting allow you to predict where a vehicle will be that is moving in an erratic manner, at high speed, across your front?  It is pure luck to hit them, I don't want to rely on luck.  When I do hit them, I do damage, but unless they are already damaged it has never resulted in a one shot kill.  I have ammo racked (rarely) and killed other vehicles with one shot, arty and open topped TD's can be taken out with one round of HE, but I have never done so with a wheeled vehicle.  If I "track" them, they don't slow down that I have seen, but continue at the same speed and maneuverability.  I remember getting a lucky hit with my Kanpz on one moving away from me, HE round, 105mm, tier ten gun.  It damaged the vehicle sure, but that target ran on and out of sight before I could reload.  They are not supposed to be able to spot very well, yet I have been seen, in a TD concealed behind a bush with camo and concealment that would have been hidden from anything else, while I could not see the wheeled vehicle.  Sure it could have been RNG, but maybe not.

 

Enough said, everyone here knows their attributes.  I don't see a weakness, and all I see is strengths.  The part that gets me the most about them though is that before they were introduced, while still in the "test" phase, is that those who tried them said the same things as the above to WG, and have been completely ignored.  Like other posters, these have destroyed the fun in the game, there are so many other places where I can spend my money, why should I do it here where games with wheeled vehicles in them have the capability to be stress-causing, rather than what I play games for; stress-relieving.

 

To reply to Mister_Avnas above, I have never seen them blow themselves up, and sure low armor and low hit points, but if you cannot hit them in the first place that has no bearing.  Also like the OP has mentioned, the "armor" might be low, but I have never one shot one of them, where if I hit a tank with those stats of low armor and hit points I almost certainly would.

 


Edited by beowulf999, Apr 21 2019 - 15:42.


gpc_4 #10 Posted Apr 21 2019 - 15:37

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Well, I think the wheelies are find so our opinions must cancel each other out. Carry on.

gpc_4 #11 Posted Apr 21 2019 - 15:38

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View Postbeowulf999, on Apr 21 2019 - 15:35, said:

I agree with the poster that wheeled vehicles are too OP.  Every other vehicle has a weakness and a strength.  Light tanks have poor armor, penetration, and can be tracked which generally kills them as they then get hit again quickly.  They have good spotting passively, good concealment, and good speed.  Medium tanks are well medium in their stats and abilities.  They generally cannot get into a slugging match with a heavy though.  Heavies are slow but have great armor and (generally) good guns.  TD's have good concealment, excellent armor, and good guns, but the ones that are the best in this role, also have fixed guns (not turreted), and side and rear armor that can be much more easily penetrated.  Artillery has thin "armor", is susceptible to HE rounds, and usually a pretty slow reload time, they are also terrible at direct fire so if you get close to one it is usually dead.  They have the ability to hit targets (behind hard cover) that no one else has.  Everything has strengths and weaknesses, that is how you balance a game, make sure that nothing is best at everything.

 

Wheeled vehicles, in my experience, do not have any weakness, only strengths.  When I shoot at them it is only luck that I hit them, people say to get better at shooting.  How does "get better" at shooting allow you to predict where a vehicle will be that is moving in an erratic manner, at high speed, across your front?  It is pure luck to hit them, I don't want to rely on luck.  When I do hit them, I do damage, but unless they are already damaged it has never resulted in a one shot kill.  I have ammo racked (rarely) and killed other vehicles with one shot, arty and open topped TD's can be taken out with one round of HE, but I have never done so with a wheeled vehicle.  If I "track" them, they don't slow down that I have seen, but continue at the same speed and maneuverability.  I remember getting a lucky hit with my Kanpz on one moving away from me, HE round, 105 tier ten gun.  It damaged the vehicle sure, but that target ran on and out of sight before I could reload.  They are not supposed to be able to spot very well, yet I have been seen, in a TD concealed behind a bush with camo and concealment that would have been hidden from anything else, while I could not see the wheeled vehicle.  Sure it could have been RNG, but maybe not.

 

Enough said, everyone here knows their attributes.  I don't see a weakness, and all I see is strengths.  The part that gets me the most about them though is that before they were introduced, while still in the "test" phase, is that those who tried them said the same things as the above to WG, and have been completely ignored.  Like other posters, these have destroyed the fun in the game, there are so many other places where I can spend my money, why should I do it here where games with wheeled vehicles in them have the capability to be stress-causing, rather than what I play games for; stress-relieving.

 

 

Lol, really? Low HP, low pen guns for their tier, low view range.

Dodforer #12 Posted Apr 21 2019 - 17:26

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View Postgpc_4, on Apr 21 2019 - 15:38, said:

 

Lol, really? Low HP, low pen guns for their tier, low view range.

 

Low HP, yet they rarely take a hit or damage when they get hit.  These things shouldn't be bouncing 75mm shells, let alone 122mm.

 

Low Pen, but as I stated in my post, they routinely penetrate the frontal armor of heavy tanks, and no, I'm not talking about slow, well-aimed shots at the lower plate, I'm talking about zipping around from the side, circling in front and snapping a round off as they pass and penning the front of a heavy tank. 

 

Low view ranges my [edited].  They may start out at 300m at T6, which is only 70m short of other lights at that tier, and 350m at T10, but you're ignoring the bonus for ventilators and coated optics(typically about 90m bonus) and crew skills will put them at the same max range as everyone else.  A starting low view range is only an effective detriment if it can't be overcome.  The max spotting range is 445m, so realistically they only have to compensate for 145m at T6 and 95m at T10.  That's not a lot and most of it can be generated just by adding coated optics.   And that low view range is also made meaningless by a starting concealment rating that is ridiculously higher than anything else in the game with the exception of the ELC BIS and EVEN 90.  They don't have to have great view range when they can't be seen until they're less than 100m away from you.  It's complete crap that these things will move at 75/kph across open ground without being spotted until they're less than 100m away from you.  I've seen them circle around some of the "larger" maps in under a minute. Small maps like Mines...I once had a team starting out on the north side of Mines, the match started, we were halfway to the entrance of the hill, so about 15-20s had passed when we started taking very accurate arty fire.  Then the 3 EBR's already in the center hill started shooting from the interior where they were already set up and spotting. They crossed 2/3 of the map and were set up in concealed positions spotting within 20s of the match starting.  Yeah, I find their low view range, countered by exceedingly high concealment to be meaningless in this regards.

 

It sounds like you're obviously one of the players who likes abusing these overpowered go-carts because anyone who's gone against them has at various times felt or seen everything above.  Yes, we expect to get bounces on heavily armored or well-angled tanks occasionally, but not most of the time on a "lightly" armored car.  Yes, we expect to get penetrated by tanks with heavy guns and high penetrations from time to time, but not from "lightly" armored cars carrying guns that would flip them over if they fired them the way they've implemented them in this game.  Armored cars mounted with high caliber guns always have to fire them forward or backward because they don't have the wide ground contact of full length treads to stabilize them, and there's no way they're firing them as accurately on the move like they do in this game.  The tires on these vehicles were meant to counter machinegun fire, hence the original run-flat filling in them, but they were never designed to withstand getting hit by tanks and the keep moving without being fazed.


Edited by Dodforer, Apr 21 2019 - 17:56.


Dodforer #13 Posted Apr 21 2019 - 18:11

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View PostThe_Iron_Bullet, on Apr 21 2019 - 15:02, said:

The auto-aim the wheeled vehicles use is not aimbot, aimbot gives lead to the target, auto-aim does not. I do agree the wheel armor is too much, but if you shoot a part of the wheel below the hull, it won't do damage. I can kind of agree to limit them in platoons. I do agree that something has to be nerfed, HE pen or gun stats because these can hit 300 meters away going 80.

 

It is not an auto-aim.  Auto-aim locks on to the center of the target mass and never moves. With regular in-game auto-aim if the tank is sitting still in the open, you'll hit it dead center mass with the variance of your guns dispersion.  If the vehicle or you start moving, the round will still fire at the spot center mass was when you fired, but the speed at which you and the other vehicle are moving will drastically alter the accuracy and most often have you shooting well behind the vehicle.  WG did not use the standard game auto-aim for the wheeled vehicles.  Multiple streamers have already stated the auto-aim compensates for the rapid speed they're moving at.  They may not have designed the auto-aim to 'lead" the vehicle on screen like an aimbot mod will do, but they seem to have made it where the point your auto-aim is pointed at will be where the round actually goes on the target regardless of how fast you're moving.  Meaning, when you're locked on, the round is going to hit the center of the target regardless of how fast or what direction you and the target are moving.  The only exception to this I've found is if you execute a hard turn as you're firing and the turret isn't quite quick enough, which is rare since the turrets can turn 68 degrees/s.  Here's a test to try yourself.  you and a friend enter a training room, put him in medium-decently fast tank and you get into a normal light or medium tank.  Lock them with auto-aim and have them sit still for one shot.  Then have them move while you're shooting.  Do this while you're in sniper mode so you can see the reticle and how it's moving.  Now swap to a wheeled and do the same test.  You will see that the wheeled vehicle hits more times than not when auto-aimed and the other vehicle is moving compared to the normal tank auto-aim.  That can only happen if they designed it to compensate for movement, which would classify it as an aimbot.

SquishySupreme #14 Posted Apr 21 2019 - 22:54

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In real life, they could only achieve those speeds on hard pavement.  Off-road, the fastest any of them ever went was about 45kmh due to their suspension and light weight.  None of them had any sort of computer system to aid in aiming, and firing while moving was nearly impossible.

 



GanxstaBunny #15 Posted Apr 21 2019 - 23:15

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WOT has been ruined by the wheeled vehicle introduction.  The physics are unrealistic and literally they have destroyed Front Line game mode.  The game has just turned into drive, and circle to death.  There is no way they could achieve the speeds they do over open terrain and be able shoot.  Wheels are for paved roads and hard ground.  While I understand the need to bring in something new, there has to be a point when it has to realized it was a bad idea.  Wheeled vehicles suck in this game and makes playing a tank (WG you remember those?) frustrating.  The cheating aim bot that wheeled vehicles get goes against level playing fields and is violation of WG own rules about mods that give advantage to players in game.  If WG is going to continue to allow a wheeled aim bot, then why stop there?  How about an arty auto aim mod to compensate for shell flight time and targets speed... oh wait that's an illegal mod, sound familiar? 

 

Get rid of the wheeled vehicle experiment or make them behave realistically.  Yes I do know that physics have to be adjusted to make the game interesting and fun, but when it just turns this game into Cart Wars, it's not about the tanks anymore.



GRINCH7777 #16 Posted Apr 22 2019 - 08:16

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.....one thing is certain ...enough [edited]about the wheelies will eventually lead to some adjustment....after all....arty has been nerfed 3X as the result of the non-stop and constant crying.

flintt #17 Posted Apr 22 2019 - 10:00

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Agreed.....Fix the wheeled vehicles or another 8 year player is gone.............I have played since 2011 and put a lot of money in WG pockets.......That will end in 11 days, unless you apply REAL PHYSICS to the wheeled vehicles.  NO VEHICLE CAN BE ON SNOW/ICE/MUD/SAND or any other soft terrain and zigzag like they do without losing control.  NO VEHICLE CAN GO FORWARDS AND BACKWARDS AT THE SAME SPEED USING THE SAME TRANSMISSION.  ALSO 1 DRIVER CANNOT SEE TO GO FORWARDS AND BACKWARDS IN A SPLIT SECOND............................WG FIX THIS OR LOSE MY BUSINESS AND $$$$$$$.

_Tsavo_ #18 Posted Apr 22 2019 - 11:50

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I'm just gonna keep playing wheelies and farming salt.   Gimme dat salt

black_irish666 #19 Posted Apr 22 2019 - 11:54

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View Post_Tsavo_, on Apr 22 2019 - 11:50, said:

I'm just gonna keep playing wheelies and farming salt.   Gimme dat salt

 

    Been lurking a long time and I respect your opinion Tsavo. Do you think these vehicles are good for the game?

_Tsavo_ #20 Posted Apr 22 2019 - 12:03

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View Postblack_irish666, on Apr 22 2019 - 05:54, said:

 

    Been lurking a long time and I respect your opinion Tsavo. Do you think these vehicles are good for the game?

 

I don't think an entire line was needed, though the one FL-10 as a unique quirk might be okay.   I can't give an unbiased opinion because they are super fun for me.  They probably aren't, but I also think the game will keep changing and adapting to the new is what should be done. 

 

They need some tweaks, I think.   Less absorbent wheels and a pause between mode switching to start. 






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