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Frontline excel spreadsheet and some random rambling


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PTwr #1 Posted Apr 22 2019 - 18:18

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So I was tracking my Frontline progress via Excel spreadsheet. Here's a blank one.

Remember that xp per tier is not linear, on second page of spreadsheet you will find this:

 

You probably already memorized xp per FL rank, but to reiterate its 0, 350, 600, 900, 1200, which means that for 20 minutes per battle and 6 days of FL you need some 3 hours per day if you average on Captain. Spreadsheet will track average xp and time/battles left to finish up your Prestige level, all you need is to input your ranks in green fields, and once you finish up Prestige move it to blue ones to keep history.

 

I am no purple monocum, but I consider anything below Captain a failure. I scored below it few times for several reasons:

  • I was drunk
  • I tried to grind tank not suitable for Frontline (uuughh, T-34-2....)
  • I screwed up early and ran out of respawns.
  • Battle was short for whatever reason and failed to farm enough dmg to rank up.

 

I reached Prestige IV this weekend, and it took on average 37 battles per prestige. Now with power of excel (and replays) I can tell you a story...

Episode 1: I reached Prestige I and did 50% toward II, I played mostly Progetto with Type 59 as backup and Cent 5/1 when I needed heavy tank. Live long, farm damage, easy Captain. I usually got Major/General at late game, while fighting near Objectives. Remember kids, if you want to rank up: shot tanks near Objective, not Objective. Researched Obj.430.

Episode 2: I had 50% headstart from previous episode, that would be most of Majors/Generals, but due to real life I had limited time to play and no broadband connection. Those 16 Captains are mostly from playing at unstable 300ms ping over phone internet... Finished Prestige II, episode ended day before I got broadband connection back... Researched Tortoise.

Episode 3 (current): I tried to grind Chinese tier 8's. LT was fine, just smaller Type 59 with two more reserves, HT/TD were good, but unsuitable for FL which made ranking up hard. T-34-2 is simply horrible, even more than in random battles. Additionally influx of TS-5's and hordes of filthy EBR's turned meta inside out. Disappointed by my progress I started experimenting with my EBR, got some great battles and plenty of bad ones, I still managed to finish up Prestige III in five days. 

Over weekend I applied results of my experiments and finished Prestige IV in 33 battles. I spawned with EBR, avoided death even at expense of zone, and then scored easy rankups with Airstrike and Artillery. In case of untimely death I used Progetto to farm respawns and damage. Few times I used filthy Skorpion to snipe Objective 5 from "impossible" spot (no, not that one).

 

I always run with Engineer, LT's and TD's get Airstrike and Artillery, never touched SPG. I probably could prepare some tanks without Engineer for later stages, but I'd need 2nd Progetto for that :]

 

As you can see, having EBR and Progetto certainly helps. If your garage lacks them, you can use several tech tree tanks that can kick their butts in combat:

  • Anything from T-44/T-54 family with 100mm gun. Just avoid getting sucked into trading shots against Proggie with full clip, as you'll get nasty surprise when down to ~600hp.
  • LTTB. It was so amazing in original Frontline I accidentally researched both T-54 LT and T-54 MT! And it is only non-premium LT that can kick EBR in close combat as its resistance to HE is so remarkable I simply run away from them select another target when they confront my filthy EBR.
  • Italian Pantera - pretty much same gun as Proggie, but worse hull. Forget about brawling, but you can provide same firepower at distance
  • UDES! Even more penetration than Skorpion, and damn its fast! Go snipe those Objectives! Its of limited use, of course, but it can save the day.

 

And now for standard hints... bla bla farm damage, bla bla defend bla bla don't die bla bla have fun.

 

And now filthy tricks I used to boost my ranks during Prestige IV:

 

  • Start with LT.
  • No slow tanks. Oh, it sometimes is good to use some brick of armor to break through flag, but if you survive you'll spend most of battle just driving.
  • Don't scout. You'll just get killed by EBR's and watch your teammates miss every shot.
  • Be late with dropping reserves on cap. 3 invaders at 50% is when you want to nuke them for maximum FLexp (don't wait too long or they'll cap!). Coupled with Engineer you might even save flag from time to time, if your team will jump into fight you can score lots of assist damage for even more rankups. Good airstrike can give you one full rank easily.
  • Ignore A. Just use that southern pass to reach B, get onto that eastern hill people forget about, protect cap from backdoor and then rush for some flag points.
  • Don't spawn in zone that need help, you'll jut be outnumbered and die horribly. Go outnumber enemy in another zone, then come back through back door.
  • Learn to ignore futile attempts at capture/defense. Well, that requires situational awareness and experience. Just check map and hit TAB to check tank count in your zone. 4 defenders? Rush cap. 10 defenders? Either farm damage or relocate.
  • Abuse respawn timer to relocate. Once you have two respawns you won't get more, but timer will still tick and you'll waste respawn by not dying. If you sit in stagnated zone and respawn-timer is below 1 minute, rush, brawl, die, respawn in active zone. In few seconds you'll get another respawn. If you run out of enemies, just hold J to die. You'll get more ranks in futile defense of Objective 1 than by spawn-killing attackers at C.
  • Farming damage is good, farming kills even more so, getting killed at flag is bad. Don't listen to battle chat yells. It turns out that enemy can't capture/defend when they are dead, and killing them faster than they can't gather respawn is best way to ensure numerical superiority.
  • Don't protect artillery. Defender LT dived behind your lines! So what? It effectively removed itself from front and will waste time trying to find SPG. Additionally SPG will have plenty respawns ready so it will soon return (some even figure out how to spawn in zone without enemy LT in), and its usefulness on offense is greatly limited anyway. Any tank going back to catch that LT will hurt its team more than one dead artillery would, and you'll often see five slow HT's trying to catch EBR...
  • Try to have at least Captain rank and two respawns hoarded for final stage of battle. That will allow you to be very aggressive around Objectives, you'll be able to use respawn to switch to healthy tank and relocate to zone with active combat.
  • If all zones are captured and you are yet to get Captain, you screwed up. Whatever you have done, don't do it again. :]

 

Victory versus Defeat and ranking up:

 

You will often hear that long battle is better than short battle, not only for getting Prestige points but also for credits/xp due to rank bonus. Lets use math to check that out:

 

We know that:

And we also know that Defeat is true "base" score, with Victory giving +50% bonus to it. We also know that FL rank bonuses are applied after Victory bonus.

From that we get:

From which we see that throwing game in order to get one more rank up is only a net gain if you progress from Major to General, otherwise it is a net loss. Even getting two ranks at cost of victory will be a net loss.

 

So... what should you do, go for victory or long game? I'd say go for General via damage route. Why? To get general you need to fight a lot, fighting a lot is primary source of both credits and xp.

Doing 15k combined damage at defeat will give you more than puny 5k on victory. Add to it rank bonus and you'll get even more.


Edited by PTwr, Apr 22 2019 - 18:58.


SporkBoy #2 Posted Apr 22 2019 - 18:26

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Ranks points are not XP - try figuring out your rate of rank points (rank point per minute) and see how badly you suffer when the team ends the game with several minutes on the clock.

 

The ""winning is everything" crowd can't seem to grasp the errors of their ways. For Frontlines Rank is Everything and that means maximize time on the clock, run out the clock while earning rank and then focus objectives the last minute or two.

 

Winning does give a boost to XP but has no impact on rank (other than winning too early precludes rank advancement opportunity).

 

So many games ending early with no general ranks - so sad and waste of time.

 

Also, ending games quickly to get into another one does not help ranking up but the calculation/proof of this is not trivial. Suffice to say if the rank of major is not achieved premature winning is a waste of time.



SporkBoy #3 Posted Apr 22 2019 - 18:29

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FYI, I often play slow tanks (with Engineering) and farm damage on the A-F caps circles and get rank very quickly.

GeorgePreddy #4 Posted Apr 22 2019 - 18:38

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I play FL like I play every other mode in WoT... for fun... and to make crazy credits and train crews and unlock some 9s.

 

Zero prammo.  No stress.  Run and gun, attack cap, defend cap, etc.

 

Am currently at Prestige 4 plus 19 tiers of 5.

 

Having a ball... best mode in WoT !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



Peak_Bagger #5 Posted Apr 22 2019 - 18:46

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This is a fantastic overview with lots of great tips. Thanks for taking the time to do this, PTwr!

BlackFive #6 Posted Apr 22 2019 - 18:53

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Why cut and paste stats into post?

PTwr #7 Posted Apr 22 2019 - 19:04

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View PostBlackFive, on Apr 22 2019 - 17:53, said:

Why cut and paste stats into post?

 

To visualize how different approaches can affect said stats?

 

View PostSporkBoy, on Apr 22 2019 - 17:26, said:

<snip>

Also, ending games quickly to get into another one does not help ranking up but the calculation/proof of this is not trivial. Suffice to say if the rank of major is not achieved premature winning is a waste of time.

I added some math to main post :] In short, throwing game to get one rank more is only worth it if you get from Major to General.

 

View PostSporkBoy, on Apr 22 2019 - 17:29, said:

FYI, I often play slow tanks (with Engineering) and farm damage on the A-F caps circles and get rank very quickly.

Watch out dear readers! While it is true that slow tanks, be it HT or TD, can dish out high amount of damage, which in turns gives you ranks, you might lock yourself in what I called stagnated zone.

Big gun won't help you much if you run out of enemies :]

 

View PostGeorgePreddy, on Apr 22 2019 - 17:38, said:

<snip>

 

Having a ball... best mode in WoT !

Aye!



BlackFive #8 Posted Apr 22 2019 - 19:37

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View PostPTwr, on Apr 22 2019 - 19:04, said:

 

To visualize how different approaches can affect said stats?

 

I added some math to main post :] In short, throwing game to get one rank more is only worth it if you get from Major to General.

 

Watch out dear readers! While it is true that slow tanks, be it HT or TD, can dish out high amount of damage, which in turns gives you ranks, you might lock yourself in what I called stagnated zone.

Big gun won't help you much if you run out of enemies :]

 

Aye!

 

.

At PTwr - I really like your post!


 

My comment was at the guy who routinely cuts and pastes stats in his posts... which just looks silly.



PTwr #9 Posted Apr 22 2019 - 20:02

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View PostBlackFive, on Apr 22 2019 - 18:37, said:

 

.My comment was at the guy who routinely cuts and pastes stats in his posts... which just looks silly.

Aaahh, you mean the thing I do not see? :]

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gingerted91 #10 Posted Apr 22 2019 - 22:38

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As sporkboy stated FLXP is independent of XP/credits, I would suggest the majority of players are working toward the reward tanks...

 

Block Quote

From which we see that throwing game in order to get one more rank up is only a net gain if you progress from Major to General, otherwise it is a net loss. Even getting two ranks at cost of victory will be a net loss.

 

This is only true if you are trying to maximize tank XP/credits.  It is counter to maximizing Rank (FLXP) where Captain to Major and Major to General are significant boosts to FLXP. 


Therefore "Winning" to get less Rank (FLXP) but more xp/credits may appeal to some but not to the majority.

Edited by gingerted91, Apr 22 2019 - 22:39.


SporkBoy #11 Posted Apr 22 2019 - 23:39

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Not to forget the rank bonus. If grinding for XP higher ranks get even more XP.

The same things one does to earn more credits also bumps up the rank.

Play for XP or credits or fun or 'just win baby'- all are maximized by maximum time on the clock - same as maximum rank. The point is maximizing rank boosts all the other reason to play.

So why do players blast objectives with 5 plus minutes on the clock?

PTwr #12 Posted Apr 22 2019 - 23:59

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View Postgingerted91, on Apr 22 2019 - 21:38, said:

As sporkboy stated FLXP is independent of XP/credits, I would suggest the majority of players are working toward the reward tanks...

 

 

This is only true if you are trying to maximize tank XP/credits.  It is counter to maximizing Rank (FLXP) where Captain to Major and Major to General are significant boosts to FLXP. 


Therefore "Winning" to get less Rank (FLXP) but more xp/credits may appeal to some but not to the majority.

Aye, hence the conclusion:

View PostPTwr, on Apr 22 2019 - 17:18, said:

So... what should you do, go for victory or long game? I'd say go for General via damage route. Why? To get general you need to fight a lot, fighting a lot is primary source of both credits and xp.

Doing 15k combined damage at defeat will give you more than puny 5k on victory. Add to it rank bonus and you'll get even more.

Basically I suggest your post battle result should look like this:

Captain after two zones, General after some two more. If you can reliably get high rank before even reaching Objectives, there is not much need to choose between ranks and victory anymore. Leading assault at Objectives  should easily give you two last rank-ups.

 

View PostSporkBoy, on Apr 22 2019 - 22:39, said:

<snip>
So why do players blast objectives with 5 plus minutes on the clock?

So far I saw several reasons, some were even explicitly voiced in chat:

  • Victory-fever, some people are simply fixated on winning
  • Being sick of teams failing to destroy unguarded Objectives, so they took matters in their hands.
  • Medal, soloing early turret is easiest way to secure it.
  • Thinking that killing turrets is good for ranking up. I soloed one turret once, gave some 20% progression from Major to General. I would get full rank-up in same time.
  • Free dmg. For some players it might be easiest way to get some
  • Miscommunication. Killing two Objectives, preferably #1 and #2, early on and then going back to fighting at flag zones is good way to secure easy victory later on. However quite often teammates get sucked into lemming mode, or defenders fail to stop them, and #3 blows up as well.
  • Self-interest, also known as selfishness. From time to time you will get pro-platoon that gets to General rank early on, for them it often makes sense to rush for Objectives. 
  • "I has Skorpion, I has coolness!" - Filthy Skorpions, and few other TDs, can kill Objectives from "impossible" angle, some players seem to take delight in being so smart and tricky, if you can call 8 gold shots from Skorp that. Well, I did enjoy killing #5 from such spot that even my team was surprised, minimap presented me good view of dozen or so headless chickens rushing usual Skorpion spots only to find it empty ;]

 

Personally I avoid it in favor of long battle so other players can farm ranks as well, but it is also in my own self-interest as spreading the wisdom of long battle makes it more probable people will go for it when I am in need of more time. I hardly fired at Objectives in my Prestige IV grind, they were just good place to find more enemies to kill not targets themselves.


Edited by PTwr, Apr 23 2019 - 00:01.


Zuikakoo #13 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 00:02

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Damn clown cars, need to be drug out into the street and burned, they really have ruined frontlines compared to the beta and session 1.   They limited arty, now they need to limit wheelies 

PTwr #14 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 00:09

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View PostZuikakoo, on Apr 22 2019 - 23:02, said:

Damn clown cars, need to be drug out into the street and burned, they really have ruined frontlines compared to the beta and session 1.   They limited arty, now they need to limit wheelies 

 

Aye. They affected FL meta quite a lot, whether for better or worse it is hard to tell, but being different can prevent boredom... if you have a wheelie of your own, that is. Not having meta tanks hits many players hard.

In original run of Frontline I was doing pretty much same crazy stuff in LTTB, but now it turned into vortex of LT's lobbing HE at each other. However, there is one good thing in that! EBR's can melt Skorpions and Progettos, maybe we will see less of them next episode?


Edited by PTwr, Apr 23 2019 - 00:10.


gingerted91 #15 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 01:59

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View PostPTwr, on Apr 22 2019 - 18:18, said:

Victory versus Defeat and ranking up:

From which we see that throwing game in order to get one more rank up is only a net gain if you progress from Major to General, otherwise it is a net loss. Even getting two ranks at cost of victory will be a net loss.

View PostPTwr, on Apr 22 2019 - 23:59, said:

Aye, hence the conclusion:

 

We are just a little confused mate because the sentence immediately preceding your conclusion, seems to  imply the opposite to your conclusion...

Edited by gingerted91, Apr 23 2019 - 02:00.


PTwr #16 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 03:33

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View Postgingerted91, on Apr 23 2019 - 00:59, said:

 

We are just a little confused mate because the sentence immediately preceding your conclusion, seems to  imply the opposite to your conclusion...

The conclusion is, in simple words: destroy everything you see. Enemy can't resist if he is blown to pieces. 

 

Let me rephrase:

Do tons of damage: You will get lots of credits/xp.

Fight at objectives: You will get FL ranks for bonus score. 

Kill more than one enemy per 5 minutes: They will run out of respawns. 

Do all of above at same time: You will get great score, early ranks, lots of time for victory and a chance to grind some tech tree tank.

Do only one of above: Meh score, meh ranks or meh both.

 

Victory, Ranks, Premium time, Boosters, Xmass tree. No difference. They are multipliers applied to your base score, not flat reward.

Neither base score, nor multipliers alone will give you 500k per battle, you need to stack as many multipliers as you can while working for high base score.

In Frontline you can directly, and reliably, affect your base score and and Rank multipliers. While you can affect Victory, in both positive and negative manner, it still depends on effort, or lack of it, of 59 other players which makes it least dependable bonus.

 

Thats why I suggest going for General via damage. If you can do it you will secure high base score, rank multiplier and have higher chance for Victory bonus.

Only Major and General give you chance to offset defeat with Rank bonus. As I mentioned early on I consider Captain to be bare minimum, anything lower than that is a failure.

 

TLDR: shot lots of stuff.



moogleslam #17 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 14:46

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This is the first time in the 3+ years that I've been really into the game, that the fun has been sucked out of a mode so much, that I am willing to pass on free tanks. 

BlackFive #18 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 16:22

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View Postmoogleslam, on Apr 23 2019 - 14:46, said:

This is the first time in the 3+ years that I've been really into the game, that the fun has been sucked out of a mode so much, that I am willing to pass on free tanks. 

 

I'm with you here.  I'm usually willing to try for any free tank (got the TS-5) ... But this evolution of FL fails to capture my attention.  Frankly I find it more annoying than fun 

mbrolin #19 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 16:35

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Thanks OP for your thoughts and findings. They are helpful.

cloudwalkr #20 Posted May 12 2019 - 04:21

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Solid stuff, OP.  Very, very good post in my opinion.




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