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KRZYBoop's Extravagant Motor Pool: Some Medium tank Rebalances.

KRZY Leo STB1 STB2 430 430U MT Rebalance

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TurpisRex #41 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 19:35

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View PostDomoSapien, on Apr 23 2019 - 10:12, said:

Aim time is being buffed, and DPM is being buffed, so you will have more flexibility, and a shell loaded more often. That'll help you deal with pesky flanking mediums and lights. 

 

[...] but a common weakness of the STB-1 is that it gets melted by smaller targets with higher DPM because its hull armor is virtually nonexistent. 

 

I'm glad everyone is talking about and acknowledging the questionable STB changes, but no one seems to have mentioned the 428m/s reduction in velocity. And this is when wheel tanks have been introduced, so it might still have some trouble hitting pesky flanking lights that can melt it due to virtually nonexistent hull armor.



Snohoe #42 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 19:37

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View Postflea1951, on Apr 23 2019 - 12:24, said:

Finally got the obj. 430 and it can compete with the high armored tanks. However, I learn today wg will nerf it and the 430U here soon. Great, so why am I grinding this again? WG, please leave well enough alone!!! Stop messing things up for us. It's getting to where it's not worth playing the game.

 

Cause no medium tank that shares all the characteristics of a russian medium yet has the armor of a upper end heavy should exist? Just look at the e50M in comparison which was considered before the heavyium... A turret that is 200 ish effective compared to the 430Us invincible one, a giant lower plate compared to the 430us tiny and far better angled one....

 

At least the 430U should get bad dpm / gun handling in exchange for the crazy armor with that mobility.



The_Illusive_Man #43 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 19:39

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I ninja'ed this post by two hours....

 

http://forum.worldof...t-of-excellence

 

For me, you missed the point on the STB-1, and the 430U. The STB-1 isnt played much due to its terrible gun handling. No amount of armor buffing will change that. Also, nerfing already bad values just shows that the devs dont play the game. The 430U needs a small armor nerf. Nothing like the bomb dropped on the E5, but something. 



PrivateJokker #44 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 19:41

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For to 430 to possibly be hammered to the bottom of the tier10 med DPM chart in one 'update' is yet another short-sighted move in developement. As a customer, this speaks volumes to the habitual disregaurd for my time and effort in 'grinding' to a vehicle BECAUSE of it's stats. Since deleting the Waffentrager Auf. E100 and giving me a Grille 15(really?) after a time intensive grind up the line, I should not be surprised. Same with the Foch 155(only got to the tier 9) and FV183 grind.
NEWS FLASH: Dramatic changes of established lines will drive customer satisfaction DOWN. Subtle changes over time are more telling and better recieved.
BTW, The lack of attention to the lower tier vehicles, maps('Mines' still a tier 10 map?), and unbalanced 'gold' ammo performance will continue the trend of subscriber atrophy.

Hans_Mo1eman #45 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 19:47

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The leo is getting worse pen with premium ammo and change from HEAT (doesnt lose pen at range) to APCR (loses the most pen at range). This will actually make it a worse sniping tank vs anything with decent armor. Having said that the higher pen AP round will be nice if they do nerf gold ammo damage down the line - so hopefully that's where this is going.

 

We all know the 0.01 change in dispersion will  it help anyone aim for weakspots when RNG has such wide parameters. It would need about 0.1 reduction in dispersion to really allow it to consitently hit weakspots from 400m.

 


Edited by Hans_Mo1eman, Apr 23 2019 - 19:47.


Shibadogdog #46 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 19:50

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So I guess once again I have wasted my time grinding up a line just to have it nerfed to death just as I get there... TY WG only thing that made the 430 line worth playing gone and you take one of the worst med lines and nerf the living crap out of it! well done again. seriously the only thing that makes the Jap meds any good was the pen and shell velocity. 

Garandster #47 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 19:50

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I don't get the complaints about the STB-1 re-balance.....they did buff the gun handling and that is what everyone is saying it needs. Realistically a 0.01 increase in base dispersion is realistically negligible and considering the 0.07 soft stat change and the 0.3s aim time reduction it should have better overall gun handling. The turret is being buffed and it will have crazy depression and the ability to pull back from a ridge quickly and not to mention get there in a reasonable time now that the P/W has improved. The pen nerf is the only thing I don't think is necessary to redefine the tank as a mid to close range ridge warrior.

Hans_Mo1eman #48 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 19:53

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View PostPrivateJokker, on Apr 23 2019 - 11:41, said:

For to 430 to possibly be hammered to the bottom of the tier10 med DPM chart in one 'update' is yet another short-sighted move in developement. As a customer, this speaks volumes to the habitual disregaurd for my time and effort in 'grinding' to a vehicle BECAUSE of it's stats. Since deleting the Waffentrager Auf. E100 and giving me a Grille 15(really?) after a time intensive grind up the line, I should not be surprised. Same with the Foch 155(only got to the tier 9) and FV183 grind.
NEWS FLASH: Dramatic changes of established lines will drive customer satisfaction DOWN. Subtle changes over time are more telling and better recieved.
BTW, The lack of attention to the lower tier vehicles, maps('Mines' still a tier 10 map?), and unbalanced 'gold' ammo performance will continue the trend of subscriber atrophy.

 

I dont see the 430U nerf as all that dramatic. And I have done the grind down that line btw. It was needed for balance, if you like the tank and playstyle it will still perform well. I plan to keep mine and I'm sure it will still be just fine.

Edited by Hans_Mo1eman, Apr 23 2019 - 19:54.


Shibadogdog #49 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 19:55

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View PostPrivateJokker, on Apr 23 2019 - 12:41, said:

For to 430 to possibly be hammered to the bottom of the tier10 med DPM chart in one 'update' is yet another short-sighted move in developement. As a customer, this speaks volumes to the habitual disregaurd for my time and effort in 'grinding' to a vehicle BECAUSE of it's stats. Since deleting the Waffentrager Auf. E100 and giving me a Grille 15(really?) after a time intensive grind up the line, I should not be surprised. Same with the Foch 155(only got to the tier 9) and FV183 grind.
NEWS FLASH: Dramatic changes of established lines will drive customer satisfaction DOWN. Subtle changes over time are more telling and better recieved.
BTW, The lack of attention to the lower tier vehicles, maps('Mines' still a tier 10 map?), and unbalanced 'gold' ammo performance will continue the trend of subscriber atrophy.

nail on the head I still have the unpurchased Grille15 sitting researched I was less the 100 EXP from the Auf E100. I will never purchase that "replacement"



DomoSapien #50 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 19:57

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View PostBabA_YA6A, on Apr 23 2019 - 12:23, said:

 

Mobility isn't getting nerfed, either. You're losing a whopping 5km of top speed but gaining 200hp of engine power. Overall, it's going to feel zippier than it did before...Compared to all other mediums it would be pretty much the worst one in the game. 

 

But that's not true- 25.4 hp/ton would give the STB-1 the second-best power-to-weight ratio among tier X mediums, second only to the batchat.  

 



churchill50 #51 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 20:01

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Well, I have rather mixed opinions about these changes.

On the one hand:

The AMX 30B buffs look great. Buffing the pen and shell velocity will remove the two things that make that tank a pain in the [edited] to play, which is great. My one concern is that they might be going too far. The AMX 30B is going to be an absolute powerhouse after these buffs.

The Object 430/430U nerfs look great. They might not be quite enough, but it's better to do several small nerfs over time rather than one massive nerf that goes too far. The idea of the nerfs is great though. Nerfing the gun handling (removing the bull[edited] snapshots) and nerfing the DPM (which removes some of their ability to bully at close range) are good nerfs. They'll still be strong tanks, but they won't be as dominant as they are now.

 

On the other hand:

The Leopard I and STB-1 changes (you can't seriously call those buffs, can you?) are ridiculous. I don't understand why you would change them in that way, or claim that either of those are buffs.

Seriously, the buffs they needed were simple:

STB-1: Give it slightly better gun handling, slightly better turret armor, and the hydro-pneumatic suspension.

Leopard I: Give it better gun handling and possibly change it to a later model like the Leopard 1A1A1 or Leopard 1A3 (like what happened to the M48) to give it better turret armor.

I don't know why you would go with these changes when the needed buffs were so simple.



Flame9998 #52 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 20:01

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I just got the type 61 and looking at these proposed STB changes, I already want to stop grinding. I'm probably in the minority, but I've really wanted an STB (the way it is now) for a long time. Why butcher the pen and alter the gun damage and reload? Why should anyone bother to play the STB when the swedish mediums are coming in and the Amx30b is getting buffed? If the problem was gun handling, then improve the gun handling. I don't think anyone was complaining about anything else on the tank so why change? 

Snohoe #53 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 20:02

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View PostDomoSapien, on Apr 23 2019 - 12:57, said:

 

But that's not true- 25.4 hp/ton would give the STB-1 the second-best power-to-weight ratio among tier X mediums, second only to the batchat.  

 

 

All the tier 10 mediums have roughly 20-30% better terrain resistances which throw that 15-25% power to weight right out the window.... Many of them have about the same p/w with better terrain resistances.

 

That's the flaw with hidden stats...



MMI_SPI #54 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 20:04

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STB-1 is a big nerf imho. Lower shell velocity, lower top speed, lower alpha per shot and lower penetration.... It was already in a bad spot, cause the gun was so bad. How is this a remedy??? P/w buff will never compensate for loss of top speed, it doesnt feel sluggish when i play it. And this happens when wheeled memes goes 100kph??? COME ON!!! 

 

Didnt played Leo and 30B, cant comment on them. Seems like ok changes, but from what i heard they were very subpar, so why the buff-this-and-nerf-that??? 

 

430 & 430U nerf was needed even before they got introduced. 430 is more or less the same it was when tier10, and its armor was very respectable then. And the 430U sets the bar even higher. It has more side armor then some tier10 heavies, and turret w/o weakspots (unlike WZ111-5A and 60TP).

 

Again, it goes to show that WG HQ Development dont play their own game, so they dont have an effin clue on how to make it right.


Edited by MMI_SPI, Apr 23 2019 - 20:11.


Volcanic_lobster_220 #55 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 20:08

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These buffs are all mediocre, are these even supposed to make them competitive Tier 10 tanks? LOL as if, come on, what the f is the point of micro changes like these? they need something drastic to actually be made good, really do the devs even know how to balance tanks if they don't even play the game? what they should do is ask the players what changes they need to make to these tanks to make them balanced, also the main thing i hear about Leopard 1 is that it gets ammo racked to heck, they didn't fix that? w.t.f, and also why are they not nerfing the godlike armor on the Bobject 430U?

BabA_YA6A #56 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 20:08

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View PostDomoSapien, on Apr 24 2019 - 02:57, said:

 

But that's not true- 25.4 hp/ton would give the STB-1 the second-best power-to-weight ratio among tier X mediums, second only to the batchat.  

 

 

...and so it is the case with pretty much every other Tier X medium in the game.



MMI_SPI #57 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 20:10

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View PostDomoSapien, on Apr 23 2019 - 13:57, said:

 

But that's not true- 25.4 hp/ton would give the STB-1 the second-best power-to-weight ratio among tier X mediums, second only to the batchat.  

 

 

With 48kph top speed.... Its useless as a fart in a wind tunnel.

Edited by MMI_SPI, Apr 23 2019 - 20:11.


BabA_YA6A #58 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 20:19

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The only medium with 48 km/h top speed is the Patton M48. 

But it is armor layout is very similar to a heavy vehicle. 



Canadian_Mano #59 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 20:23

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View PostDomoSapien, on Apr 23 2019 - 14:57, said:

 

But that's not true- 25.4 hp/ton would give the STB-1 the second-best power-to-weight ratio among tier X mediums, second only to the batchat.  

 

 

Wow,  that'd be impressive if it weren't for terrain resistance values. and the top speed being 48.

YANKEE137 #60 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 20:28

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Well I have been thinking about using some free XP on the 430 line, but that sarcastic inner voice warned me they were due for nerfing. Thanks sarcastic inner voice! 

  So now we just have to try and guess the next massive overbuff/new must have tank.  I'm thinking IS-4. 







Also tagged with KRZY, Leo, STB1, STB2, 430, 430U, MT, Rebalance

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