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Crazy nerfs to stb 1


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F1O1 #21 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 19:13

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Generally speaking, when improving something......you don't buff half the attributes and nerf the other half. That is not how improvement works. People aren't so keen to look into any of these buffs, because they are caught up on agonizing over the nerfs,  nerfs towards a tank not good to begin with. Which makes me wonder, what do they have planned for E100 and lS4. My goodness.

 

STB1 has a bad reputation for accuracy and dispersion. Bad reputation for easily over-matched armour spots and lots of wholes in the turret, with a trouble some cupola. lt has a bad reputation, on terrible soft stats in comparison to other tier ten medium tanks. This is what WG should concentrate on. Righting some of the wrongs tonnes of people complain over. Like what they did with M48, and shrinking the cupola. They righting a major wrong. They need to do that with STB1, not this elaborate trading of buffing and nerfing, which may very well make the vehicle even worse than before. Like what they did with the AMX30B fiasco.....and they are doing it again a year later.

 

Let me do WG job.  lt is simple.  What STB1 really needs, and won't toss WOT community into a card trading uproar. 

 

Posted Image

 

 



SporkBoy #22 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 19:17

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View Post_Tsavo_, on Apr 23 2019 - 17:34, said:

 

Possible, though i get the feeling this'll make ridge play and close fights a little better.  Or maybe I'm reading things wrong.

 

STB already has decent depression so dont need hydro. No turret armor means in close ridge fights are a losing proposition.

Gothraul #23 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 20:06

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The STB1 after 1.5 if those nerfs go through as the "buffs" are for the most part a joke when all it needed was some overall buffs without drastically changing the tank.

 

 

 



Stevenwt #24 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 20:08

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View Post_Tsavo_, on Apr 23 2019 - 10:47, said:

I'm actually looking forward to it and will play my STB-1 more.  I dunno how it can be perceived as a nerf.  

 

because being turned into a imitation Swedium is not realy a buff.

Hellsfog #25 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 20:31

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View Post_Tsavo_, on Apr 23 2019 - 12:34, said:

 

Possible, though i get the feeling this'll make ridge play and close fights a little better.  Or maybe I'm reading things wrong.

 

Who knows? To my mind, WG is once again balancing while drunk. They are making the gun handling and pen worse in exchange for a gun depression gimmick. I don't see how this all balances out but I've not started drinking today. 

Trauglodyte #26 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 21:20

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View Post_Tsavo_, on Apr 23 2019 - 18:34, said:

 

Possible, though i get the feeling this'll make ridge play and close fights a little better.  Or maybe I'm reading things wrong.

 

View PostDomoSapien, on Apr 23 2019 - 18:52, said:

Posted this in the official thread but here it is again just in case:

We improved and strengthened the frontal armor around the gun, so the STB-1 got rid of the vulnerable weak spot.

We also improved the turret armor and fixed some similar weak spots, making it harder to penetrate.  

It should be noted that these changes are not yet final, and more may happen after supertests. 

 Existing armor values:
New Armor Values:



I'm not entirely sure as to the motivation behind reducing penetration, I'm thinking it may be an effort to slightly reduce the dominance of tier X mediums in Random Battles? Agile heavies dominate the competitive meta, but redline sniping in mediums is still generally the go-to solution for farming damage in tier X. I'm just spitballing here, though.

I also think an effort is being made to fit the vehicle comfortably in a specific role, because currently it's a mediocre jack-of-all-trades that's a master of none. With the hydropneumatic suspension and extra turret armor, it should theoretically fit into a similar role as the m48 Patton - mid-range ridgeline support. 

Personally (this is just my opinion so feel free to take it with a grain of salt) the STB-1 would benefit from some kind of additional buff to characteristically set it apart from the new Swediums, because currently they seem to be better at mid-range support than the STB-1 regardless of buffs. On the other hand, gun depression is my favorite stat so if it's going to have amazing depression with the hydropneumatic suspension, you will theoretically be exposing much less of your turret overall when you're poking a ridge.

 

 

I was mid-quote, when Domo snuck this in, but this was my extrapolation of the situation.  I haven't ever played the STB-1 but I think that there still needs to be a way of differentiating the new STB and the current iterations of the Swediums.  The STB will have the DPM advantage while Swediums will have the advantage of range, due to higher pen.  That being said, the Swediums don't drive incredibly well and suffer from having a mid-to-rear located turret.  I've got like 100 games, give or take, on the test server and they're essentially longer Emils with less hull armor - in other words, they're great on a ridge with enemies directly in front of them but, if you get any level of angle on them, the long hull is easy to see and shoot.  With a slightly stronger turret and the hydrsuspension, the STB-1 will be a much better slightly closer ranged ridge fighter with slightly better speed and agility, comparitively.

 

On a side note, I'm still trying to figure out what the role is for the E 50 M.  It has the lowest DPM, of all Mediums, and will be almost 500 DPM lower than the changed Leo 1.  Its armor is decent but it suffers from the typical German turret face.  And, its alpha is now going to be lower than that of the Leo while having to deal with the issues of APCR as base and premium ammo.  So, they're going to have to address that, else they've just dumped on another line in the same nation by updating this one.  I'm happy for the changes, no doubt.  But, I just hope that they don't do things in a vacuum.


Edited by Trauglodyte, Apr 23 2019 - 21:23.


Sturm_Teufel #27 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 21:33

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View PostZipperDown, on Apr 23 2019 - 08:46, said:

And there nerfing its shell speed by 1/3. Yet they want it to shoot from a distance as a support tank.

 

This "re-balance", is the one thing that is NOT needed. Reducing the shell speed is just stupid. Reducing the Leopard's HEAT shell pen is just stupid as well.

tod914 #28 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 21:35

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View PostSturm_Teufel, on Apr 23 2019 - 15:33, said:

 

This "re-balance", is the one thing that is NOT needed. Reducing the shell speed is just stupid. Reducing the Leopard's HEAT shell pen is just stupid as well.

 

Leave it to Wargaming to take the only redeeming aspect that the tank has, and ruin it.  Don't think too hard as to why your server population keeps dropping.

Bolted_On #29 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 21:41

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View Post_Tsavo_, on Apr 23 2019 - 16:47, said:

I'm actually looking forward to it and will play my STB-1 more.  I dunno how it can be perceived as a nerf.  

 

Now THAT is funny .....  so you actually use sarcasm LOL

xeldon333 #30 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 21:42

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View PostDomoSapien, on Apr 23 2019 - 18:52, said:

Posted this in the official thread but here it is again just in case:

We improved and strengthened the frontal armor around the gun, so the STB-1 got rid of the vulnerable weak spot.

We also improved the turret armor and fixed some similar weak spots, making it harder to penetrate.  

It should be noted that these changes are not yet final, and more may happen after supertests. 

 Existing armor values:
New Armor Values:



I'm not entirely sure as to the motivation behind reducing penetration, I'm thinking it may be an effort to slightly reduce the dominance of tier X mediums in Random Battles? Agile heavies dominate the competitive meta, but redline sniping in mediums is still generally the go-to solution for farming damage in tier X. I'm just spitballing here, though.

I also think an effort is being made to fit the vehicle comfortably in a specific role, because currently it's a mediocre jack-of-all-trades that's a master of none. With the hydropneumatic suspension and extra turret armor, it should theoretically fit into a similar role as the m48 Patton - mid-range ridgeline support. 

Personally (this is just my opinion so feel free to take it with a grain of salt) the STB-1 would benefit from some kind of additional buff to characteristically set it apart from the new Swediums, because currently they seem to be better at mid-range support than the STB-1 regardless of buffs. On the other hand, gun depression is my favorite stat so if it's going to have amazing depression with the hydropneumatic suspension, you will theoretically be exposing much less of your turret overall when you're poking a ridge.

 

 

Penetration of standard shell is a joke (-16mm). No one will level up this tank never. 

 

I lost my time and money raise the crew x4 perks. back my money STA premium.



Bolted_On #31 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 21:43

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View Post_Tsavo_, on Apr 23 2019 - 17:31, said:

 

incorrect, but don't let that stop your thought process.

 

Nope, I think he nailed it, spot on



Avalon304 #32 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 21:43

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STB-1 looks pretty ok after these changes. Penetration nerfs are only at long range, and the shell velocity loss really isnt going to be a big deal. Looks like its also keeping HEAT too, since I see no mention of the premium shell being changed to anything. And 258mm penetraion AP is straight up better than 258 APCR for actual penetration, despite that lost shell velocity because 5 degrees of normalization. Sure it lost 30 alpha from its shells... but honestly that hasnt affected the Italian tanks that much so I doubt it'll affect this one either. This coupled with the fact that they buffed the armoring on the turret. Looks like it'll be a better ridge fighter.

 

Only seeing an overall buff coming out of this rebalance. Im actually quite happy with all the changes announced.

 

View Postxeldon333, on Apr 23 2019 - 13:42, said:

 

Penetration of standard shell is a joke (-16mm). No one will level up this tank never. 

 

I lost my time and money raise the crew x4 perks. back my money STA premium.

 

Read the article again. That penetration is at 500m, standard penetration is not changing and is remaining 258mm.


Edited by Avalon304, Apr 23 2019 - 21:44.


_Tsavo_ #33 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 22:03

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View PostBolted_On, on Apr 23 2019 - 15:43, said:

 

Nope, I think he nailed it, spot on

 

Incorrect, but don't let that stop your thought process 

Trauglodyte #34 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 22:18

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View PostAvalon304, on Apr 23 2019 - 21:43, said:

Read the article again. That penetration is at 500m, standard penetration is not changing and is remaining 258mm.

 

Math and reading comprehension, for the internet generation, is hard.  Don't look down on them, too much.



_Xi #35 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 22:28

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Hate these changes for the most part, the armor change is meaningless. So now I always have to fight at close range, with less alpha, less top speed, and more gold being aimed at me? This doesn't fix anything, all you had to change was the accuracy and dispersion. THATS ALL. 

Asassian7 #36 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 23:07

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View Post_Tsavo_, on Apr 24 2019 - 04:47, said:

I'm actually looking forward to it and will play my STB-1 more.  I dunno how it can be perceived as a nerf.  

I have played 2500+ games in my STB-1.

 

This is a GIGANTIC AND ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING NERF.

 

I will likely end up quitting the game entirely over this.



Stevenwt #37 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 00:01

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I’m still confused by this,

 

there basicaly turning it into Swedish medium. But with a diferent armor layout.

 

the Swedish mediums I saw on test  were borderline if not outright sub par tanks. Granted it could be the drivers who had them, but the ones I saw were useless on any map that they can’t ridgeline fight on, and even when the could they were routeenly chewd up and spat out by any tank that could flank them, even on the ridge lines. 

 

I guess the theory is that it’s a tank that can ridgeline almost as well as the Swedes, but if outflanked can fight better??

 

 

 



Avalon304 #38 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 00:53

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View Post_Xi, on Apr 23 2019 - 14:28, said:

Hate these changes for the most part, the armor change is meaningless. So now I always have to fight at close range, with less alpha, less top speed, and more gold being aimed at me? This doesn't fix anything, all you had to change was the accuracy and dispersion. THATS ALL. 

 

5kph is nothing. Also you get ~4 HP/ton to its power to weight, so more acceleration.

 

View PostAsassian7, on Apr 23 2019 - 15:07, said:

I have played 2500+ games in my STB-1.

 

This is a GIGANTIC AND ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING NERF.

 

I will likely end up quitting the game entirely over this.

 

Asassian, I like you. Youre a good dude... but theres no way this is a nerf.



Asassian7 #39 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 02:31

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View PostAvalon304, on Apr 24 2019 - 11:53, said:

 

5kph is nothing. Also you get ~4 HP/ton to its power to weight, so more acceleration.

 

 

Asassian, I like you. Youre a good dude... but theres no way this is a nerf.

I like you too, but you're on something strong if you think its a buff.



Genzing #40 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 02:47

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Overall, I welcome the buffs, but the nerfs are questionable.. 






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