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ALL HE getting NERFED in 1.5, Video Link


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xXTheGameAceXx #121 Posted Apr 25 2019 - 21:14

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View Postmbrolin, on Apr 25 2019 - 13:24, said:

 

"necessary crutch" if they are so necessary, how am I a green player and I never use gold rounds?

 

And I'm a dark green with recent WN8 as blue fairly consistently. Gold is only a necessary crutch if you want to get the purplest of purple stats and can't aim worth crap.

eraser1 #122 Posted Apr 25 2019 - 21:29

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View PostFlarvin, on Apr 25 2019 - 12:23, said:

If you honestly think you have good reading comprehension... LOL

 

View Postmbrolin, on Apr 25 2019 - 12:24, said:

how am I a green player and I never use gold rounds?

"Green". rofl

 

Please, go ahead. Prove me wrong by reaching 2k wn8 in Tier 10 without firing gold or using high pen TDs. I implore you.



Flarvin #123 Posted Apr 25 2019 - 22:02

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View Posteraser1, on Apr 25 2019 - 15:29, said:

 

"Green". rofl

 

Please, go ahead. Prove me wrong by reaching 2k wn8 in Tier 10 without firing gold or using high pen TDs. I implore you.

 

Reading comprehension is not your strong suit, now is it. lol

 

 



RickEdwards #124 Posted Apr 25 2019 - 22:43

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View Posteraser1, on Apr 25 2019 - 21:29, said:

 

"Green". rofl

 

Please, go ahead. Prove me wrong by reaching 2k wn8 in Tier 10 without firing gold or using high pen TDs. I implore you.

 

Me; I don't even load any gold into most of my tens, and when I do it is only around 6 max and they only ever get use in maybe one of every 30 games. Also, you are not taking into account that if there were no gold rounds, everyone would be on equal playing ground in terms of shell penetration, which means many people who use gold ammo as a crutch would do lower damage on average, thus lowering the average damage of each tank and people who actually can pen without gold would fill that gap. Gold ammo doesn't make you "good," but there should be no dispute that it makes you "better." It is a flat out upgrade to normal ammo with real downsides.

xXTheGameAceXx #125 Posted Apr 25 2019 - 23:05

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View PostRickEdwards, on Apr 25 2019 - 16:43, said:

 

Me; I don't even load any gold into most of my tens, and when I do it is only around 6 max and they only ever get use in maybe one of every 30 games. Also, you are not taking into account that if there were no gold rounds, everyone would be on equal playing ground in terms of shell penetration, which means many people who use gold ammo as a crutch would do lower damage on average, thus lowering the average damage of each tank and people who actually can pen without gold would fill that gap. Gold ammo doesn't make you "good," but there should be no dispute that it makes you "better." It is a flat out upgrade to normal ammo with real downsides.

 

Exactly. The only reason the higher WN8 is only accessible with gold spam is because you're basically guaranteeing the penetrations with almost every single shot (few exceptions unless you shoot where you know you can't get through) and therefor are able to achieve much higher damage compared to players who have to take their time to aim more carefully, or can't penetrate without getting a better position, flanking, or waiting for the enemy to expose a different part of their tank.

Overall, gold is the ultimate crutch and more of an excuse for a lack of skill and patience than HE ever will be.



eraser1 #126 Posted Apr 25 2019 - 23:10

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View PostRickEdwards, on Apr 25 2019 - 15:43, said:

Gold ammo doesn't make you "good," but there should be no dispute that it makes you "better."

This is actually the point I was going for. A "green" doesn't suddenly become good by just pressing the 2 key.

 

Yes, it generally makes you better, but it really just opens the skill cap, without moving the skill floor (too much). Obviously, it depends on the type of tanks you play.

 

Something like a STRV, for example, already has great standard pen, so firing gold really only helps to mitigate RNG a bit, and maybe in some cases allows you to pen shots that you otherwise wouldn't be able to. But that's fairly rare.

 

However, on something like a super conqueror, while it has decent standard pen, its gold rounds are a (nearly) flat-out upgrade, and allow it to more aggressively fight enemies in situations that it just wouldn't be able to before.

 

 

OTOH, people seem to think that using gold ammo is just a "crutch" by top players. I completely disagree, and, at worst, consider it to be situational at best. Do they allow you to do things that you couldn't otherwise? Sure. Do players who regularly use gold rounds suddenly unable to deal any damage without them? Absolutely not.

 

Gold rounds give you more options at best, or mitigate RNG at worst. A good player knows what options he has, and will make the best out of those options. Take some of those options away (by removing gold rounds) and while he may not be able to make such a massive difference (in some cases), he will still be generally better than somebody who was a worse player in the first place.

 

 

Going back to the main point, HE is truly, in most cases, a real crutch. It eliminates the need to aim almost entirely and completely ignores any level of armor angling. I know many "gold ammo critics" level the same complaints at gold rounds, but it really is not even close to the same level.

View PostFlarvin, on Apr 25 2019 - 15:02, said:

Reading comprehension is not your strong suit, now is it. lol

I meant to write "in response to" instead of "cater to".

The point was that WG doesn't care about the top players in any sense, except for a minority of regional staff (whom I am very grateful for).



Flarvin #127 Posted Apr 26 2019 - 01:41

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View Posteraser1, on Apr 25 2019 - 17:10, said:

I meant to write "in response to" instead of "cater to".

The point was that WG doesn't care about the top players in any sense, except for a minority of regional staff (whom I am very grateful for).

 

If you bothered to read my posts, you would know I made no claim that WG is nerfing HE, due to any specific player group. 

 

Merely challenging a claim that a specific tank is OP and needs a nerf. 



RickEdwards #128 Posted Apr 26 2019 - 02:23

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eraser1, just so you know, all APCR gold rounds are actually, mathematically flat out upgrades for all tier 10 tanks that have them, in all situations. Both HE and gold are in need of nerfs, and, thankfully, they are getting them.

21Blackjack #129 Posted Apr 26 2019 - 12:38

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View Posteraser1, on Apr 25 2019 - 21:29, said:

 

"Green". rofl

 

Please, go ahead. Prove me wrong by reaching 2k wn8 in Tier 10 without firing gold or using high pen TDs. I implore you.

 

I sold my Tier X and Tier IX because of it.  I've got 200 ping and I'm supposed to go against guys with 50%+ gold rounds, premium equipment, 6 skill crews and reward tanks on top of that, that can hit a hatch within half a second at 300m? screw that.  That's like going into a fight with a Karate Black Belt except he also is armed with a machinegun.

 



LpBronco #130 Posted Apr 26 2019 - 21:38

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HE damage has been inflated overtime and earlier wasn't much more than a Hail Mary when you were three tiers down with no chance of penetrating say a top tier heavy on cap. Then they started actually using these in tanks like the M-4 and Pz IV which use to have better guns for the spread. Until they started the Italian line and they gave tier 7 HE pen to a tier 4 medium. Honestly, I'm tired of listening to HE rounds exploding against the hull and if this helps restore some of the feel of the game I'm all for it even if it means the Types get mothballed. 

Clueless_Squirrel #131 Posted Apr 28 2019 - 19:17

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I fail to see how this isn't a good thing. My 3 biggest issues with WoT currently is:

1. Artillery, and that they do way to consistent and way too much damage, on top of far too long stun.

2. Corridor maps that all enforce hull down frontal combat with little to no opportunities for flanking. This, combined with the trend of increased frontal armor on new tanks leads to the current gold spam meta.

3. The HE spam against anything that people cannot pen, and how especially high alpha HE is able to consistently do 300-700 damage depending on alpha to the most heavily armored tanks in the game. When they're using their tank perfectly.

 

In my mind, being able to punish someone who is using their tank correctly just by pressing the 3 key and eventually forcing them out of the position is not a good thing. Some tanks in particular suffer from this, the S Conq being one of them. I get the S Conq is borderline OP and incredible for pubbing, and so not many see this as a bad thing. But being able to punish someone for playing their tank correctly by mindlessly shooting at center mass with HE without aiming is game breaking, and should not be a thing. It does not take skill, it is not healthy for gameplay. It creates even more frustration in an already frustrating game, and does not encourage players to play around it, rather encouraging them to just bash their heads against it until something sticks.

 

I'm not fundamentally against HE as an ammo type, but the way it works currently, especially when high alpha HE is concerned is game breaking and needs addressing. I would much rather see them make HE more situational and provide a way to boost your DPM by penning shots, given the situation. Same goes for gold, where it should not be flat out better than AP, but rather offer more pen for a tradeoff compared to AP. 
If you make the ammo types more defined and situationally effective, more so than currently, ammo choice would actually become a skill rather than a way to consistently do damage when you shouldn't. You shouldn't be able to press 2 and go through everything with no drawback. That is not healthy for the game. Neither should you be able to press 3 and damage anything consistently regardless of how well and correctly they're playing. 

Gold should provide a way for you to consistently pen heavily armored tanks where AP isn't effective, but not be an insta pen against super heavies regardless of where you're aiming or how well they're angling. Same goes for HE, where it shouldn't be a counter to all armor, but rather offer a way for you to boost DPM if you are in a situation that allows it.

 

The way this is going, both with the proposed gold ammo changes, and this new information I just stumbled upon. It looks like we're slowly getting to a point where this actually becomes somewhat true. And I cannot call it a bad thing as all it does is improve the playing experience for everyone involved. As well as encouraging tank knowledge and correct ammo usage given the situation.


Edited by Clueless_Squirrel, Apr 28 2019 - 20:19.


Back_On_The_Rocks #132 Posted Apr 28 2019 - 19:51

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View PostRickEdwards, on Apr 26 2019 - 02:23, said:

eraser1, just so you know, all APCR gold rounds are actually, mathematically flat out upgrades for all tier 10 tanks that have them, in all situations. Both HE and gold are in need of nerfs, and, thankfully, they are getting them.

Just so you know, what he is talking about is the normalization and pen drop off. Normalization is how much the shell turns itself to be straighter against the armor. AP normalizes 5 degrees, and APCR Normalizaes 2 degrees. AP also has less pen drop off over distance than APCR, though the difference varies from tank to tank. Combine these two, and you can get the rare edge case where the standard AP will be better. Especially if you are shooting at a STRV. Or, on a couple tanks, like the T-100LT, the AP is just gold ammo. My point being, AP isn't strictly worse than APCR.



LpBronco #133 Posted Apr 29 2019 - 02:29

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Rock, paper, scissors...

 

You say a tank being played "perfectly" is still subject to damage is a bad thing and I say it's a good thing. For every strength there should be a weakness, so sidescrapping may be appropriate for some circumstances and not others isn't a bad thing. You just want your handful of tanks to be dominate in any encounter, how boring.



Pulse12 #134 Posted Apr 29 2019 - 14:19

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As an arty player, a little less dmg is irrelevant to me. Outright damage is not always best thing to do in an arty, for example, I can hit a Frenchie for high dmg, but so can everyone else, better to hit the high armour tank for 150 dmg, track it, kill 2 crew and dmg modules than do 600 damage.....like any nerf/buff, just adapt. RNG is more of an issue than a minor change likek this, like going from a 7 kill 3k dmg fight with 3k assist dmg to next game you cannot hit anything fully aimed and stationary yet the one fully unaimed shot at a lt moving at 70 mph hits and one shots it, that's RNG.

 



Konigwolfen #135 Posted Apr 29 2019 - 16:01

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So not only is Wargaming screwing over artillery which were already on life support unless they're a T92 or a Conq GC (or a blatantly overpowered tier 5-6 Arty), they're also nerfing low-mid tier derp tanks without any compensations for their other gun options to make them viable alternatives. Sounds like the usual. :facepalm:



deadizdead #136 Posted Apr 29 2019 - 16:17

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BRING THE HEAT

 






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