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Leopard 1 Power/Weight Ratio Changes


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RickEdwards #1 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 22:09

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Honestly, I feel that this part of the changes is not really necessary... Of course, they don't actually say what the change is specifically, so I can't say much besides the fact that having all that speed is not all that great if it takes a long time to get up to max speed; the bat-chat already has a higher hp/t ratio and goes 65 km/hr, so I bet, with the lower hp/t ratio of the new Leo, the bat will likely still be able to beat it to most places, effectively rendering it's "fastest medium in the game" title meaningless.

 

But, yeah, I would like to know what the proposed changes are in terms of power/weight ratio.



teamoldmill #2 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 22:14

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Speed doesn't mean anything when you have to stay 470 yards away from the battle to be effective.

tod914 #3 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 22:20

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Can we refer to your topic as "Leopard 1 PowerCrept/Weight Ratio Changes".

 

Spoiler

 


Edited by tod914, Apr 23 2019 - 22:21.


RickEdwards #4 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 22:22

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View Postteamoldmill, on Apr 23 2019 - 22:14, said:

Speed doesn't mean anything when you have to stay 470 yards away from the battle to be effective.

 

You really don't need to be nearly that far away to be effective in a Leo even now... It's got good camo and gun depression, with high VR; it is less effective in brawling distance because of lack of armor and dpm, but like 150 m or more is more the effective range ATM. Honestly, with the alpha increase it will probably get better at close range engagements (not that it'll be good at them, just better than now).

NeatoMan #5 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 22:36

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The so-called "buffs" to the Leopard 1 are a big, giant, middle finger to the tier X german medium.  It's still going to suck.

NeatoMan #6 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 22:58

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View PostRickEdwards, on Apr 23 2019 - 16:22, said:

You really don't need to be nearly that far away to be effective in a Leo even now... It's got good camo and gun depression, with high VR; it is less effective in brawling distance because of lack of armor and dpm, but like 150 m or more is more the effective range ATM. Honestly, with the alpha increase it will probably get better at close range engagements (not that it'll be good at them, just better than now).

So that's like 2 maps where it can be marginally effective now?

Hans_Mo1eman #7 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 23:08

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I just don't understand why nerfing the pen on the gold rounds was necessary or the drop on reverse speed or p/w ratio change. The these are some of the best features of  the leo. to only give it 30 or whatever extra alpha in compensation (and no real change to dpm) might actually make it worse not better.

 

They could outright just raise the top speed and alpha and call it a day, it would still be worse than several other mediums just a little less worse than it is now.



ThatoneguyKaz #8 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 23:16

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View PostNeatoMan, on Apr 23 2019 - 22:58, said:

So that's like 2 maps where it can be marginally effective now?

 

when i can eliminate 2 of the 3 small maps where it genuinely stuggles

JakeTheMystic #9 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 23:21

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"Lets increase the top speed of the Leopard to the speed of sound"

 

"Lets also nerf the engine power to just above 2 snails"



RickEdwards #10 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 23:23

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View PostNeatoMan, on Apr 23 2019 - 22:58, said:

So that's like 2 maps where it can be marginally effective now?

 

Idk what game you're playing, but it's more like there are 3 or so maps where it is not effective, and the change with the alpha will make it slightly better at being able to poke and shoot, making it slightly better on the maps it's bad on. It's not a great buff, but we also don't know how they plan to change other tanks in the game yet; when it's all said and done, it's possible the Leo is good; we just don't know yet.

heavymetal1967 #11 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 23:27

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View Posttod914, on Apr 23 2019 - 17:20, said:

Can we refer to your topic as "Leopard 1 PowerCrept/Weight Ratio Changes".

 

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler


SteelRonin #12 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 23:39

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They should buff it the camo...

NeatoMan #13 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 00:29

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View PostRickEdwards, on Apr 23 2019 - 17:23, said:

Idk what game you're playing, but it's more like there are 3 or so maps where it is not effective, and the change with the alpha will make it slightly better at being able to poke and shoot, making it slightly better on the maps it's bad on. It's not a great buff, but we also don't know how they plan to change other tanks in the game yet; when it's all said and done, it's possible the Leo is good; we just don't know yet.

 

having been through multiple rounds of these so-called "buffs" to german tanks, I'm not gonna hold my breath.  The most I ever expect from these "buffs" are that it will become barely passable instead of outright terrible.   That's been the m.o. since the beginning.

Rundog #14 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 01:05

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Yeah I'd prefer more engine power over faster top speed.

Avalon304 #15 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 01:11

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View PostNeatoMan, on Apr 23 2019 - 14:36, said:

The so-called "buffs" to the Leopard 1 are a big, giant, middle finger to the tier X german medium.  It's still going to suck.

 

All of the changes to the STB, AMX and Leo are pretty much overall buffs for the tanks in question. They all look great.

ThePigSheFlies #16 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 02:33

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View PostAvalon304, on Apr 23 2019 - 19:11, said:

 

All of the changes to the STB, AMX and Leo are pretty much overall buffs for the tanks in question. They all look great.

 

I disagree.  mediums with high theoretical dpm, and suddenly unreliable gun handling, and dramatically reduced shell velocity/penetration aren't comfortable to play for most folks...  especially if one is typically playing doubles and going from a tank that has ~1400 m/s velocity and then hopping into one at the same tier, with similar mobility and now it has 1000 m/s velocity.  especially now with wheelies in the game...

 

 



Unkempt40k #17 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 04:31

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View PostSteelRonin, on Apr 23 2019 - 23:39, said:

They should buff it the camo...

 

They did this on console and it's all it needed. Really was a fun tank after. 

FastForward7 #18 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 04:38

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View PostUnkempt40k, on Apr 24 2019 - 04:31, said:

 

They did this on console and it's all it needed. Really was a fun tank after. 

 

Wait, WG implements different changes for the various platforms? What sense does that make?

 

Great signature quote, BTW. I really need to go back and watch that. 



Avalon304 #19 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 05:01

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View PostThePigSheFlies, on Apr 23 2019 - 18:33, said:

 

I disagree.  mediums with high theoretical dpm, and suddenly unreliable gun handling, and dramatically reduced shell velocity/penetration aren't comfortable to play for most folks...  especially if one is typically playing doubles and going from a tank that has ~1400 m/s velocity and then hopping into one at the same tier, with similar mobility and now it has 1000 m/s velocity.  especially now with wheelies in the game...

 

 

 

What is suddenly unreliable about ANY of the tanks gun handling after these changes? Those that got any handling changes literally got better handling guns either through aim time buffs or soft stat buffs (or both of the above), and none of them got reduced penetration at 100m (well, ok the Leo 1 did, but 315 APCR is about as good as 330 HEAT because normalization). People have become very reliant on high shell velocity though, when above 1000m/s its mostly all the same anyway. 2 of the 3 tanks got penetration buffs.

 

These were literally all buffs for the Leopard 1 and AMX 30B and buffs for the STB-1 as well. 



Nixeldon #20 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 09:02

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View PostRickEdwards, on Apr 23 2019 - 17:23, said:

Idk what game you're playing, but it's more like there are 3 or so maps where it is not effective, and the change with the alpha will make it slightly better at being able to poke and shoot, making it slightly better on the maps it's bad on. It's not a great buff, but we also don't know how they plan to change other tanks in the game yet; when it's all said and done, it's possible the Leo is good; we just don't know yet.

The Leo 1 is demonstrably one of the least(if not the least) effective tier X mediums in the game, so I don't know what game you are playing. Its performance is in steady decline with recent overall win rate at 46%. The skill ceiling is so high that only the absolute best players perform at or above their average with it and according to the recent tank curves, even they can't do it any more. Considering its overall dismal performance for almost all players, it is safe to say that the Leo 1 is ineffective on most maps not "3 or so".

 

As for the changes to other tanks, we have seen several of them, but unless WG is going to significantly modify their characteristics to nullify their effectiveness at close to medium range combat then the comparisons are irrelevant. The Leo 1 is a situational tank that is rarely played and played well even less. It has a limited role with limited opportunities and the proposed changes will not assist the average player.

 

According to WG, the proposed changes are intended to enhance its role as a long range sniper even though WG announced a shift toward closing most tank engagements to 300m or less on the majority of maps a few years ago.  Getting slightly higher alpha doesn't compensate for an auto-pen hull made from ammo rack, nor are any of the proposed changes intended to make the Leo better at "poke and shoot". It is even getting a small hit point reduction, slower reverse and traverse speeds to reinforce its intended role.

 

WG tested more defined tank roles in the Sandbox a few years ago and although the general player consensus was negative, it is part of the overall tank/tier rebalance. The primary issue with narrow tank roles is that it forces more reliance on random teammates who are mostly unreliable at best. 


Edited by Nixeldon, Apr 24 2019 - 09:07.





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