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I figured out the problem with Empires Border: It's TOO SMALL!


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BlackFive #1 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 19:35

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I like the idea of elevation change maps - but this iteration of Empire's Border is... poorly done.  Aside from the art / graphics (beautiful) the layout is pretty much a waste.

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The southwest corner brawl area is functional in both Std. mode and Encounter - but the North / Northeast side of the map is pretty much wasted space.  Which is a shame: if the map were 50% larger and everything spread out more - it might be a workable ploy to go north.  But as is; going north is pretty much a waste of time.  The corridors are so tight that (as long as Arty doesn't stupidly die) getting flanked doesn't really matter to the heavy team; one - three tanks can easily defend against a flank / rear attack.

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Bottom line: we have a pretty map that is good only on 1/2 of the map - with the other half generally unused and inconsequential.

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Make it half again larger or double the size and spread out the north hills... could be fun



jsn87xi76slk92mc802d7sk1 #2 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 20:10

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its a huge map 

 

the problem is that it is just hidden village (an atrocious map) redone with a new name



JakeTheMystic #3 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 20:31

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View Postjsn87xi76slk92mc802d7sk1, on Apr 24 2019 - 10:10, said:

its a huge map 

 

the problem is that it is just hidden village (an atrocious map) redone with a new name

 

Its... nothing like hidden village. 

 

Sure both maps are bad, but I don't see how one is anything like the other.



jsn87xi76slk92mc802d7sk1 #4 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 20:37

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View PostJakeTheMystic, on Apr 24 2019 - 20:31, said:

 

Its... nothing like hidden village. 

 

Sure both maps are bad, but I don't see how one is anything like the other.

 

it is! https://wotguru.com/...lage_Close3.jpg

 

middle hill is now the hge middle hill 

the village is still there but cut in half with the outer part being the useless mountain passage (like in pearl river)

heavy passage is the other end. 

the river is still there but its like a dry riverbed now

 

its literally the same concept and same theme. can u really not see it?



mlinke #5 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 20:42

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Nah. Its ok. It is unique

TankFullOfBourbon #6 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 20:52

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It's another corridor map where the majority of the actual map is mountains and wasted space. 

YANKEE137 #7 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 20:57

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Too much unusable terrain.  And another thing : if you're gonna name it "Great Wall" you ought to let us actually drive on some of it. 



KaiserWilhelmShatner #8 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 20:58

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The play area of the map is too small.

Gothraul #9 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 21:03

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That is the problem with all that maps is that they are far too small like postage stamps where everyone knows almost every little spot and every little play leaving very little freedom in terms of play and movement. Frankly not only does there need to be more maps but the existing ones need to be changed both in size and in their play to keep them fresh without making them horrendously toxic to play.

Nonamanadus #10 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 21:12

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Three pinch points that emphasizes armor & penetration values, it's ridiculously easy to defend on Assault if your team is not polluted with lemmings. 

FastForward7 #11 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 21:18

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For whatever it's worth, I think all the maps are too small. I'd love to see all the map sizes doubled or tripled. The game is entirely too predictable, as it currently stands. You can pretty much bet money on (roughly) which tanks are going where, and where you'll encounter them. In addition, most maps have one key strategic point that's almost guarantees you a win if you capture it. If you take the hill in Mines with a few tanks, you win. Opening these maps up would allow for multiple key strategic points, offering different paths to victory.

cloudwalkr #12 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 21:20

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View Postmlinke, on Apr 24 2019 - 20:42, said:

Nah. Its ok. It is unique

 

lol the first thing I've seen you NOT complain about is Empires Boarder where you think its fine....how telling is that.  lol

 

Empires Boarder is a crap map because it funnels people down lanes that cut off the entire rest of the map.  That in itself is horrible map design.  The next major glaring problem is that if you are trying to reset cap you can only come from one angle because there isn't enough time to relocate around the mountain...so your enemy can easily figure out where you'll come from.  It's stupid.  It is one of the single worst maps in the game.  The entire middle section is unplayable because it's all low ground and you die if you go there.  The south is won by typically whoever has more tanks there, not by who out plays and has more skill because the map doesn't lend itself to skilled game play.  

 

The map is large enough that I don't think it's a problem...it's the absolute HORRIBLE design putting HUGE segments of low ground in the middle of the map with high points on the outsklirts which promotes redline sniping.  The mountain is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen in the game forcing you to either drive all the way around it to flank or be completely predictable and come through the mouths they put in.  There needs to be several "through" paths that you can take to flank through the mountain.  The middle ground needs to be adjusted and made so it's actually playable.  Most importantly the person who designed Empires Boarder needs to be let go.

 

 

You could argue that several other maps are very similar.  Take Lakeville for example.  Both caps are laned out meaning that if you go valley you can only be attacked while on cap from one side...the enemy can't flank you.  The difference here is that the caps are in the open and easily spotted.  Empires Boarder doesn't seem to play out that way.  You can hide on cap until they are forced to come find you in which case it's usually death for them.  

 

I will agree that it has potential to be a good map, but not under WG map design team.  All they can create is funnel maps that cut off 80% of the rest of the map.  Overloard is another shinning example of how crap WG map design is.  That map is trash but still in the game.



gingerted91 #13 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 22:38

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The strategic engagement areas need to be managed better.  For that reason the map is too big.

The only strategic area is the southwest corner and that is very dominant in Assault Mode (removed) and Encounter Mode.

The Standard Mode is somewhat better but there are long approaches and good arty lanes to cover them.

Basically, the number of tanks that go mid and North determines your win chance.  The more of your team that goes there the less chance you have of having the over match and winning the strategic brawl...

Battles on this map are often over before the first shot is fired... the rest of the time is just seeing the win/loss played out.

gingerted91 #14 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 22:42

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View PostBlackFive, on Apr 24 2019 - 19:35, said:

the North / Northeast side of the map is pretty much wasted space.  Which is a shame: if the map were 50% larger and everything spread out more - it might be a workable ploy to go north.  But as is; going north is pretty much a waste of time. 

 

Having flanks that do not impact the battle or that cannot impact other flanks is the problem with the map.  Making the map bigger just gives the pubs more room to go madly off in all directions and not engage in the battle.

SteelRonin #15 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 22:45

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as bad as mountain pass...

That1Villain #16 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 22:46

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Honestly I have no issues with empires border, don't play assault mode if I can help it so I don't see that part. The map has a place for every tank to do something with and has plenty of routes to travel between areas. Most people I see that complain about the map go north to get arty focused and die in the first 2 minutes of the game. There are a couple areas like near the north spawn next to the wall entrance that are awful to push into but otherwise no complaints from me, better than airfield or paris

Volcanic_lobster_220 #17 Posted Apr 25 2019 - 01:37

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It's complete garbage, how anyone thought a map with 50% of it shaded off would be fine, i have no idea.

BRING BACK SACRED VALLEY! :izmena:



FedericoWR #18 Posted Apr 25 2019 - 03:26

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the problem with Empire's Border is that it's in the game

the_Deadly_Bulb #19 Posted Apr 25 2019 - 04:42

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I play almost exclusively on Premium Time.

I don't advocate removing maps and I don't really think the opt out for maps is a good idea.

That said I will be arranging it so that I never again see Empires Border or Provence just as soon as I am permitted the option.

 

Not a fan of Paris either and I would rather not see Mines or Ensk beyond T-VI but none are worse IMO than Empires Border and Provence.

Putting them to the curb ASAP.






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